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BBC Telly Tax petition given new Parliament debate date

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Stop

However, given the TV Licence is fundamentally a tax

It most certainly and fundamentally isn't a tax.

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Anonymous Coward

If not a tax then what is it?

A tax (from the Latin taxo) is a mandatory financial charge or some other type of levy imposed upon a taxpayer (an individual or other legal entity) by a governmental organization in order to fund various public expenditures.

from Wikipedia

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"40-45% of a slightly above average earner's annual pay is not "a small amount"."

Try employing someone to collect your bins privately, let alone a security guard, a teacher and a doctor. I would imagine anyone unfortunate enough to require chemotherapy would receive more benefit from the NHS than they pay in taxes. Want to swap places with them ?

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Re: the Beeb don't do anything that is or requires a natural monopoly

'Impartial'? But they aren't - even if they offend the Lefties exactly as much as the rest, you still have to look at e.g. RT to get the other side of a story. Worse is their active propaganda for PC causes that the majority may choose to resent.

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Two points.

I don't watch the BBC and I don't want to pay for other people's entertainment.

Secondly, men are more likely than women to tell people trying to get into their house to sod off.

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"Secondly, men are more likely than women to tell people trying to get into their house to sod off."

You haven't met my mother.

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Anonymous Coward

"You haven't met my mother."

You sure about that? Son...

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"Secondly, men are more likely than women to tell people trying to get into their house to sod off."

You haven't met my mother.

Or me.

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"You sure about that? Son..."

Da.... Dad? I thought you were dead?

WHERE'S THE F**KING MONEY YOU OWE MOM?!

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Anonymous Coward

"Da.... Dad? I thought you were dead?

WHERE'S THE F**KING MONEY YOU OWE MOM?!"

I just popped out to get some milk and the local shop didn't have any.

I'll be back soon, I just need some money for the flight back

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Anonymous Coward

More likely to be that women are more likely to be at home when the salesman calls and it is the one who answers the door who gets prosecuted.

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Anonymous Coward

... or my mother in law.

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This post has been deleted by its author

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Re: Telly Tax Is Value For Money

The BBC's main problem is Murdoch complaining about competition and demanding the BBC produces shit. The tories will be in a quandary tho as normally they'd love any opportunity to shut it down but now the BBC news is pretty much their puppet and they'd be doomed without it.

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Re: Telly Tax Is Value For Money

Personally, I think they should do the same as Ch4 and put their archive on iPlayer, not just stuff that's aired recently.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Telly Tax Is Value For Money

"What the BBC could do is transmit the back catalogue of programs in the dead time of BBC1 and BBC2. Why they transmit BBC News on BBC1, which is a repeat - BBC1, BBC1 HD, BBC News, BBC News HD - 4 copies. Utter waste."

For fucks sake! You're encouraging more repeats of Dad's Army... We should be entitled to a refund every time that utter shite is repeated.

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TRT
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Re: For fucks sake!

Stupid boy.

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Re: Telly Tax Is Value For Money

10 down votes - unbelievable!

Are you really all Dad's Army fans?? It's was vaguely amusing 40 years ago when they last made a new episode, but come on!

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Re: Telly Tax Is Value For Money

Are you really all Dad's Army fans?? It's was vaguely amusing 40 years ago when they last made a new episode, but come on!

It's largely about class and hence never gets old.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Telly Tax Is Value For Money

The late night OU programs were educational. I learnt stuff on there despite having come in from the pub. Running programs about coding, IT and STEM may help get this country out of it's hole where all we can do is buy into the drivel supplied by the US commercial channels.

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TRT
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Re: Telly Tax Is Value For Money

Well you see, the thing about down votes, you see is that you're bound to get them, you see.

Because they don't like an up-thumb.

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Thumb Up

Re: Telly Tax Is Value For Money

"Because they don't like an up-thumb."

Don't panic! Don't panic!

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Anonymous Coward

"back catalogue of programs"

Most back catalogues are now on the streaming services, Dr Who for example is on Netflix currently.

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Re: "back catalogue of programs"

Netflix would have paid handsomely for the material they licenced from the BBC back catalogue. However, that revenue stream goes into BBC Worldwide, and not Aunty Beeb, hence we still have to pay a licence fee.

It could be interesting to see how the numbers stacked up if income from selling shows overseas was used to offset not having a licence fee.

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Re: "back catalogue of programs"

BBC Worldwide money is already used by the BBC for making programmes.

Eg BBC America co-production credits on some programmes including Dr Who and Top Gear if I recall

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "back catalogue of programs"

Where does the money go in BBC Worldwide?

It seems the BBC use pubic money to pay private production companies to provide output that is then sold.

Who profits from this?

I want to keep the BBC but do wish it were truly independent of commercial and political bias and not some kind of PC La La Land.

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This all seems quaint and amusing

From the perspective of one who has been disengaged for some years from the idea of TV watched when they want to send it out, rather than when I want to watch it.

With plenty of high-quality subscription streaming services and some cracking educational channels on YouTube (the likes of Tom Scott, Feature History, Ten Minute History and Minute Earth), I can't imagine why anyone would feel the need to still have a licence like that. The BBC is still chucking out quality content available elsewhere - one of my favourites, Orphan Black, is quite clearly announced as from the BBC before each episode starts on Netflix - and it seems to me that the broadcast delivery method and its associated tax are now obsolete, even if those engaged in it haven't realised yet.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: This all seems quaint and amusing

You-tube content is far better than commercial TV. When I do occasionally see TV, I'm shocked at how little content is repeated within a single show. Add in the trailers for the program, and it gets really quite tedious.

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Re: This all seems quaint and amusing

The BBC lost it for me when they fill in the first two or three minutes (the bit before the first advert break when they flog it to BBC America) with a preview of what's coming up in the rest of the programme.

There's no need for that. We'll come to that in due course.

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Re: This all seems quaint and amusing

Oh, and also the bit at the end of the programme: the one that's telling us what's coming next week.

Again, no need to tell us because if your programme was decent enough we'd remember to tune in and watch next week. I'd rather that time were spent on actual content.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: This all seems quaint and amusing

It's to catch people tuning in to watch the next programme in the schedule

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high % women?

Most likely reason is women in households do the day to day paperwork. In my house the license is in the wifes name so I don't think there is anything to read into the high % being one sex over another.

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Re: high % women?

Rather odd this...

Women under - represented in the boardroom? Result; complaints.

Women over - represented in TV Licencing prosecutions? Result; complaints.

Raise this on El Reg? Likely outcome - downvotes.

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Re: high % women?

Rather odd this...

and while we are raising conundrums, my oven is electric and gets hot but my fridge (also electric) is cold. How does that fucking work?

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Re: high % women?

I said the first time this issue came up.

Single parent household living on benefits can't afford TV licenses and will be over represented. Those households will mostly be headed by women.

I don't find a large proportion of those prosecuted for TV license violation being female at all surprising.

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Re: high % women?

Loathe as I am to ever say anything in defence of Crapita, one can hardly use the statistic as evidence of sexist bias on their part.

The vast majority of people prosecuted for football hooliganism are men, does this indicate some anti-male bias on the part of the police ?

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MJI
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Re: high % women?

Pumping the heat from the fridge to the oven.

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Re: high % women?

I don't find a large proportion of those prosecuted for TV license violation being female at all surprising.

However, for some that doesn't mean TPTB shouldn't be doing something about it...

Caroline Levesque-Bartlett, an anti-Telly Tax campaigner, told The Register at the time of our investigation: “The David Perry Review brought this gender imbalance to light to Parliament in July 2015, and nothing has changed since.”

...

"Sorry madam you can't have a TV licence in your name, we've filled our quota of women holders, is there a man in the house who could hold the licence for you?..."

"Madam you don't have a TV licence, because I've already caught 14 women this week, I can only catch men for the rest of this week; I'll visit you next week"

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Anonymous Coward

The BBC should be made a subscription service.

That way all those people who think it's worth it can pay for it and enjoy it. While all the people who don't want it, don't have to subsides those who do. If the content really is worth it then they shouldn't have any problem making enough money.

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@AC

Unfortunately that wont happen because the delusion will be shattered. Simply people have to pay the BBC and complain against it. Yet people voluntarily part with money to pay for extra channels (sky/virgin/etc) which come littered with adverts.

That alone demonstrates the desire and value of the extra channels while the BBC forces people to pay it.

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Anonymous Coward

People keep saying how much they get hassled by capita when they dont have a tv licence.

I dont believe it, you simply tell them you dont require one, and they leave you alone for 2 years. Either you are just ignoring any and all of their letters, or you are just lieing.

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@AC

Thats amazing! They leave you alone for 2 years! To be honest I would prefer they act like any other company and dont hassle me for not using their service. I would also prefer they didnt expect to tax me to use someone elses service instead of theirs!

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Megaphone

We all pay taxes for things we don't use.

Simple answer is to add the charge to the Council tax and Commercial rates. Yes, I know you've said you don't have a TV, but tough, as I say, there are lots of things the country provides that we all pay for but never use, so why shouldn't state television be one of them.

At least its not state controlled state television (you can place your own value on the amount of meddling by government connected people, but it is not state controlled television).

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Sigh

As with every article about the telly tax a horde of commenters pop up telling us we should pay it because it's great value for money, no adverts etc etc.

So here I am once again saying: If you think it's such great value for money then why are you so afraid of the thought of it no longer being a tax and being subscription instead? Surely plenty of people will pay it?

The reality is you want other people to pay for the things you use to make it cheaper for you. In which case I'd like to institute a console tax to subsidise my PC gaming, you will support that won't you? No?

The tax must go (but it won't).

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Re: Sigh

"no longer being a tax and being subscription instead"

Because as you know it would have to be much more expensive.

In some ways I do not object to publicly funded broadcasting, most of the costs are fixed which makes it really cheap when spread across a large subscription base. So cheap it is almost trivial or at least considered a bargain. The problem I have with the BBC is it is run by twats who were appointed by twats. We pay for it but get almost no say in what it produces or how it is run.

I would like to see the BBC run by a board of say 10,000 license holders selected at random.

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Re: Sigh

"Because as you know it would have to be much more expensive."

Which is what my follow up point was about. They want people who don't watch BBC to pay so that they spend less. Don't we all want other people to pay for our stuff? Most of us don't get to threaten people with jail unless they comply though.

Note: I don't pay the telly tax and we don't miss it in our household one bit. Advert free Netflix and Prime are top notch.

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Re: Sigh

The reason many people don't mind paying the licence fee is the lack of adverts. But that's not the reason we have the licence fee. We have it because it provides a public good; an independent, high quality source of news. That benefits everyone because it allows public debates to start from a shared understanding of reality. That means better community relations and better election results. So it even benefits those who never watch TV. The entertainment shows are there mostly because you need to keep your audience engaged so that they are watching for the important bits and to provide economies of scale.

The BBC is worth it not for ad free entertainment but to save us from Fox News.

You playing console games doesn't provide that which is why there is no console tax.

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Re: Sigh

"then the PC target is already subsidised"

Isn't a percent of every console game sale going direct to MS or Sony, which isn't the case with the PC?

In which case no, we're not subsidised if the Sony/MS tax is more than £3 for Destiny 2 etc.

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Re: Sigh

"You playing console games doesn't provide that which is why there is no console tax."

Many of us do not believe the BBC provides what you say it does, it is not independent, especially from politics, because the charter comes up for renewal every now and then. Also it is not a public good because everything the BBC does can and is provided by private sector businesses, and I am excluded from watching it when I don't pay the licence (as I don't).

You may prefer the BBC but it isn't a public good. That argument is about 50 years out of date (since ITV started anyway).

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