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'Windows 10 destroyed our data!' Microsoft hauled into US court

Anonymous Coward

Re: Options

50 No's and a Yes means Yes.

Well, it does according to Nicola Sturgeon....

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Re. 10

It works OK on this machine apart from one very annoying whining message about athbtx all the time.

Still can't get my PIC programmer working but this is more that the software sucked even on Windows XP.

Little hint: Genuine Arduino and FTDI work fine, fake do not.

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Silver badge

Re: Re. 10

That may well be FTDI drivers deliberately nuking non-FTDI hardware. Actual physical damage in fact.

One of several reasons we don't use FTDI anymore.

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Silver badge

One project manager allowed his pc to upgrade itself to win10. He will be rolling back to win8.1 by formatting and reinstall as 10 seems to have a pox.

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Devil

Microsoft's Defense

It's not your data, it's our data.

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Trollface

Laughing all the way to the bank!

Um, gee, let's see, so far a handful of people have successfully sued M$. M$ is laughing all the way to the bank, hence their snarky reply. Bastards...

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Of course that there were some pretty slippery tactics used by Microsoft to hoodwink people into agreeing to these upgrades has been overlooked by the party that provided the boilerplate statement.

That it intentionally broke Office 2007 installations (which incidentally install just fine on 2007 for almost all purposes) and thus left people worse off in a productivity sense is irrelevant.

That the advertised ability to rollback didn't and doesn't always work, and sometimes it breaks in such a way you can't boot the PC during install, after install or somewhere inbetween is not relevant either.

Sure people should have backups and such, but Windows 10 has caused a lot of misery for a lot of people, and we still have to deal with various problems it has every day - the forced updates break software left right and centre in my experience.

Still, it was "free"

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Silver badge

how did they fuck that up?

"She hired Geek Squad to repair the machine, with only partial success, and ended up having to purchase a new computer."

err - what? last resort, reinstall the OS. no hardware damage was done. how on earth did she have to buy a new machine? what a bunch of muppets

dont get me wrong, i hate windows 10, but it makes me a lot of money - is still not fit for purpose, so i end up repairing as lot of machines (and usually suggest them to buy a win 7 license or reinstall 7 back on if they have "upgraded" to 10 and now have massive issues)

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W10

(untitled)

Before upgrading to W10, if you're not sure of the consequences after the update it would be better to partition your HD then move your serious data to the other side of the computer. So that after any damage you'll have nothing to lose. Microsoft has already given many options on computer to save customers data, If only you're computer literate, you must know all this.

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Silver badge

Re: W10

"If only you're computer literate, you must know all this."

A lot of people buy computers to do stuff. They're not necessarily computer literate. They paid good money for what they bought. They don't deserve to become victimised.

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Re: W10

Win81 has 2 reserved and 2 recovery partitions, and a system partition ... leaving just the primary partition. Turning off hibernation and deleting HYBER.SYS, turning off swap, etc., do not allow for the splitting of the primary partition. Your choices are limited to using an external drive or a complete wipe, or trying to use another OS to repartition the drive.

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Holmes

Re: W10

I suspect Microsoft code for MBR Partition Table mgmt was (and probably still is) broken, so that when you have extended partitions not in physical order, some of them are just being lost in the process of updating / rewriting an MBR Partition Table.

That happened at least to me. Ubuntu (on my multiboot machine) created own extended partitions this way (and saved on one physical disk sector). After upgrading w7 to w10, Ubuntu was gone off my machine. I restored the PT by hand and repeated the process several times to prove there is a bug in MS code. I have recorded this on video too (though still unereleased).

I am sad to see it is so hard to make M$ remunerating for bisheaviour of their software.

Should that have happen with ReactOS (https://twitter.com/reactos), it would be acceptable for me because they are software still in alpha. Plus, they are free to install.

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Anonymous Coward

Back in the good 'ole days of windows 98 and its frequent BSODs, you could buy a rubber toy called 'Thanks Bill' which you could drop kick through the office window for stress relief. We now need a 'Thanks Satya' !

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Geek Squad recommended that their customer buy a totally new computer? I'm not defending Microsoft, but when your personal files are deleted, you don't need to buy a computer. And they didn't bother even looking with a program like Recuva? Considering that most hard drives nowadays are 1 TB and older computers might have 100 GB minimum, and the Windows update takes only a few gigabytes and the personal documents were lost in the middle of the upgrade,there is a good chance the files could still be recovered.

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Read the terms

You'll find you agreed to this, many times over the years.

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Re: Read the terms

"You'll find you agreed to this, many times over the years."

s/agreed/were coerced into/

coercion |kəʊˈəːʃ(ə)n|

noun

the action or practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.

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PTW
Mushroom

Co-incidence?

I've been running W7 in a VM for a couple of years, installed Never10, so left Automatic Updates on as I sometime need to connect it to the net. Then along come the "critical" [telemetry] updates that constantly un-hide themselves so I have a script that I run after any auto update that uninstalls telemetry, *again*!

An hour or so after I ran the uninstall script this week W7 starts complaining it's not activated and the only option is to activate by phone.

F.O.A.D. Microsoft, really, just F.O.A.D.!!!1!!11

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Anonymous Coward

Interestingly

Ever since the Windows 10 "upgrade" was disabled, 7 updates are a lot slower especially on x64.

I upgraded to W7 x64 from x32 on this machine specifically to boost performance before going to 10.

Had to resort to third party tools just to get machines fully patched, which is fine but very time consuming and does not actually solve the problem.

Does anyone know exactly why the 4GB limit appears, also is there a known problem with CPU usage?

Since upgrading this quad core AMD machine has run hotter than Hell, fan maxes out about 50% of the time when using Firefox.

Again the usage seems clustered around a few processes, notably WSE is known to be a data and CPU hog when doing anything.

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Silver badge

I'm glad Microsoft don't make cars.

EVERYONE would be in danger of said cars on the roads, not just the people driving them.

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Anonymous Coward

Nonsense

Computing as been around for a long time and these 3 users obviously ignored all the nagging you get from all corners about making sure important data is backed up.

Totally !!! USER FAULT !!! full stop

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Bronze badge
Thumb Down

Capt. Obvious says

A compressed image of my hard drive on another hard drive is kind of the best immediate antidote but it is not quite as good at *being* my computer and getting work done THIS MORNING. If M$ wanted to pay me minimum wage for the time I spent cleaning up after their premeditated non-accidental bullshit, I would be just that much less likely to put Mint on that laptop we need to unbox pretty soon.

And lo and behold, I shall gain the owner's permission before commencing to install the Mint of Linux; and yea, the Windows of Microsoft shall remain unmolested, and shall boot unhindered upon the bidding of my associate; who, having applied electrick power, shall at once be invited to choose the system of operation which is initialized forthwith.

Because that's how I roll.

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Re: Nonsense

No - despite users declining the upgrade, Microsoft has initiated the upgrade on one of my computers and on a friends. It was not a problem on mine as I have most of my data on a home Linux based server. I did not lose any data on the computer, but there was an issue with the video driver Microsoft chose and one application was uninstalled by Microsoft. My friend had issues with the upgrade which required a successful revert back to Windows 7.

It is not user fault when the user declined the upgrade, yet Microsoft forced the upgrade anyway.

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Bronze badge
Facepalm

that dual boot option

Of course after I downloaded a bucket of fresh Mint, I learned it comes with systemd. (sigh) Probably it doesn't matter as she won't be forming sysadmin habits and just needs something that just works (and runs Yoshimi, haha). The notebook is really an Atom-based Acer convertible with 2GB and a 32GB SSD so dual booting may be a cramped non-starter anyway.

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Silver badge

Discussed this with...

... a colleague/friend/relative [delete whichever is inapplicable] and a couple of things came up.

While ASUS obtained permission to put the CoA/PK on the power adapter of my Zenbook, disconnecting it is most likely a breach of the MS EULA. Further, when I used my OEM w7 DVD in conjunction with the ASUS supplied PK I was definitely in breach of the MS EULA. I imagine the data recovery business in question might very well play things by the book. A missing CoA or restore media means a whole new OS is required and I seem to recall w7 licences being very difficult to purchase recently.

The problem with w10 I had was also experienced by my friend. He solved the persistent "you appear to have a graphics problem" by installing the correct driver from AMD. Needless to say, on the first mandatory "upgrade" from MS, the problem reappeared as MS appear to disapprove of correctly working video drivers.

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and 31-days to roll back to their old operating system.

Now if that would also restore the lost data then it might be a viable option.

I was properly sceptical about the process, I let it update a Win7 VM to Win10 just to see what it was like. I was ready to throw the whole thing out in under an hour. I still have the Win10 VM, but it only gets turned on occasionally to update it and see what other bad stuff MS has introduced.

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Got Backups?

(Apologies to the US dairy industry's funny Got Milk? campaign.)

My first experience losing data on a PC was in 1983 on a Franklin Ace 1200 (Apple ][ clone). Since that time, I have embraced the aphorism:

"There are two kinds of computer users; those who have lost data, and those who are about to."

Microsoft's reprehensible behavior aside, one of the problems that has always dogged personal computing is the unspoken reality of owning a personal computer: you are now a System Administrator. And as a sysadmin, YOU and YOU ALONE are responsible for the protection of your data.

The fact that MS have done a very poor job of providing tools with the base OS to perform backups (with a capability to actually restore them at need) is perhaps the real crime here.

Contrast this with the *many* other OS's that existed over the intervening years that MS have offered products which provide backup tools with the OS; indeed said products would have been unsaleable in their target markets absent such a capability.

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Bronze badge
Linux

Re: Got Backups?

The version I heard goes "There are two kinds of users: those who keep backups, and those who have never lost data to disk failure."

I sorta disagree on the sysadmin status: when I use Windows (or occasionally OSX) I'm a Herd Member.

I run Funtoo, so I am definitely a sysadmin and for that matter probably an amateur distro maintainer. (amateur: lots of the work is already done and there's only 1 user whose expectations matter; distro: literally everything in MY system is there because I decided it should be or could be)

Incidentally, I don't have to protect the data on my system from my system, as (apparently) one does with Windows-- which may, in semi-rare cases, emancipate that which it was intended to make accessible.

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New computer?

"Ended up having to purchase a new computer" ?

And i'm sure that new computer came with windows 10 preinstalled, so microsoft got exactly what they wanted - a new sale.

If a company screws you like that, you should vote with your feet and not give them any further business, but microsoft are so entrenched they know they can get away with screwing their customers like this.

So what incentive do they have to improve anything? Absolutely none.

Welcome to capitalism, the only thing stopping most companies from totally screwing their customers in the name of profit is the fear of losing those customers. MS have very little risk of losing customers because the customers are hopelessly locked in.

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Re: New computer?

Joe thats not true. You can always get a MAC or use a LINUX operating system. UBUNTU is a free distribution. I also dont see why you repalced your computer becasue of a software malfuntion. Did you not have your original operating system and disc? There is something missing that your are not telling us.

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Silver badge

Damage to hardware?

Does information stored magnetically count as hardware?

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Re: Damage to hardware?

J.R. no it does not.

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Paris Hilton

We've been here before...

a Microsoft spokesperson said :"Customers had the option not to upgrade to Windows 10. <snip>We believe the plaintiffs’ claims are without merit."

To quote the ever lovely Mandy Rice Davies* "He would say that, wouldn't he?".

This looks to be good viewing for a while, buy your shares in popcorn manufacturers now.

*Readers across the pond may care to google her... - er, enter her name into a search engine, yer honour....

Paris, you may google her, too.

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N2

Good

Microsoft have sunk lower than spammers & malware writers & deserve a red hot poker up their arses, see how they like 'new ways to do familiar things'

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Bronze badge

I gort lucky. My computer treats the upgrade the way my body treats a foreign substance. It attacks it and refuses to let it get a foothold. I OD'd on stupid pills and yried to install Win10 on my laptop. The attempt failed three times. Each time it was because my computer refused to allow the exe to run.

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What is happening is that Microsoft is running a compatibility checker before the install. If the hardware is not compatable it will kick out the install.

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Not always true - I had one computer where Microsoft checks were hunky-dory, yet after the upgrade the only screen resolution available was 800x600, which looks kind of funky on a 1920x1080 monitor. I put in a different video card rather than try to search for a driver that might work with the old card.

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Gold badge

Probably do have permission...

"Microsoft had no permission to change the OS on a machine, which amounts to unauthorised access."

Uncertain. If you are using Windows 7, 8, or 10, have you actually read the license? Some of the terms are quite heinous. My recollection is that the license gives them the right to modify the software on the system in any way they see fit, with or without notice, and they disclaim the software actually being able to do anything.

That said, the fact that they would keep hassling people over and over to upgrade (not a "never ask again option") I *do* hope they get the book thrown at them.

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Re: Probably do have permission...

Actually MICROSFT does not have to have permission. You do not own the software. You pay for a License agreement to use the software. This implys that you understand that microsoft can change, upgrade or deny usage. This is in your agreement if read.

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Silver badge

Re: Probably do have permission...

MS's fantasies about all the rights it has are overruled by actual consumer laws.

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Silver badge

Re: Probably do have permission...

Oh? Like which specifically? And note we're talking the US here.

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I don't use Windows. Don't have these problems.

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Zap

UK too please

I hope that millions of people join this class action against Microsoft, I am only sad that UK users will not be able to join it.

This issue was covered on the BBC Radio 4 You and Yours Consumer show, they had more people calling to complain that this happened to them than ANY other issue EVER, they have been broadcasting for donkey's years.

I have a laptop a friend gave me to repair that was ruined, it does not respond to the usual repair and recovery options. The only thing to be done is to download a copy of old OS and try to find drivers. Microsoft did not just just trash the data, they trashed the recovery partitions for the old OS.

This is NOT just about the value of lost data, Windows 10 is an advertising and affiliate platform, companies pay to advertise on the start menu and when you use the Microsoft installed icons that use 3rd party services Microsoft gets a cut of subscriptions.

So this was NOT done on some pretext for a better OS, it was done for MONEY.

I would not mind if Win10 had been more secure, the one machine I have it installed on is continuously updating, I am at the point where I can looking at how I can block updates or any Microsoft interferance with my PC by using a 3rd party firewall and blocking them on my router.

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Hello All,

Some if not most of you need a reality check. I read one post that said that Microsoft tried to update there PC when it was completely off. Shows you how stupid some of you are. " First things first" you as the user DO NOT own the software. You pay for a LICENSE to use the software. What this implys is if you read your licenseing agreement Microsoft has the right to update change or deny the right to use the software. Just because you think you own your computer does not mean you own the software that is running on it. And no Microsoft well not be found liable for something that you as the Consumer should understand and read first. Also why would you run any computer and not have a backup of your files. Or atleast a backup of your most important data. Its not Microsoft fault you lost your data because you did not back up your PC or understand and read your licensing. If you had a HD failure you would have lost the DATA aswell. Are you going to file a lawsuit against WD or Segate for your HD failure. Most of you complain about how bad Microsoft is then you keep using it and not save a BACKUP. Seems a few screws short in my book. Looks like most of you are trying to blame MICROSOFT for you not beeing educated enough to be using a PC.

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Silver badge

"Most of you complain about how bad Microsoft is then you keep using it and not save a BACKUP. Seems a few screws short in my book. Looks like most of you are trying to blame MICROSOFT for you not beeing educated enough to be using a PC."
You're obviously a noob. And a fuckwit...

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Respect your customere, M.S.

Of my friends (many of which I give free I.T. support), the vast majority "upgraded" to window 10 unaware that they were doing so or what was going on. My upgrade was by choice. On my two systems, I waited for the last day of Sept. 2016 to "upgrade" after cloning my boot drives to have backups of my Win 7 installs. One computer had no issues, another did but things got better as the computer was restarted and updated over several weeks.

Same thing with the anniversary update. I waited for several months to install this. One computer had no issues, the other did. Creating an additional account on that computer and over a few restarts, things worked themselves out.

Now, if M.S. just had a real quality control department and let the user really control things on their own computers.

As far as updates go, I disable the Windows Update Service and only enable it when I choose to do updates.

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Window 10 Pro

With SONY selling their computer VAIO division and no longer updating drivers for Windows 10 and finally fixing the problems and then to start a Backup of my VAIO hard drive and before it finished Window Update installed the Windows 10 update and restarted killing the backup and then the message please do not turn off your PC ... Failed to update System rolling back the update and restarting only to download the same Windows Update again.

I have to delete the \Windows\SoftwareUpdate directory again and again to stop the restarts.

Why would the Windows Update not allow a Backup process finish before updating?

Also for all of you Windows 10 users, do not forget to turn off the Apps Background do what I want anytime I want setting. Notifications, locations, contacts, calendar, news, ...

How many people work in the Windows 10 group at Microsoft.

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Anonymous Coward

I hope SatNad accomplishes what Ballmer had failed to do

Destroy Microsoft from within.

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Some choice...

I have a friend who is a school teacher and was working on her Windows 7 laptop on a Word document. She left the document open while she went to bed to get a couple hours sleep with the intent to finish the document when she was a little more alert. When she returned, she was greeted with the screen indicating that the Windows 10 upgrade was in progress and the computer would reboot several times. That was true - Windows 10 did complete the upgrade and her data was right where she left it, but Word would not open. She was able to transfer her document to a thumb drive (with much of the edits lost).

Granted, she should have saved the document and closed Word before taking the nap, but she had religiously declined the Windows 10 upgrade nags. We were able to successfully revert back to Windows 7. On the first login, the document she was working on when Microsoft thought she needed to upgrade popped open in Word without us telling Word or the document to open.

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Upgrading to WIN 10 is a disaster.

I took the option to upgrade with 3 PC's. Within a few minutes of looking at this distasterous product on all 3 PC's I discovered a wide range of faults and failures including such as killing the internet, disabling programmes, altering configurations etc..

2 PC's took about 20 minutes each to install WIN10 but my main PC took over 7 hours so I knew it was going to be a disaster. It did serve to identify that the upgrade package was filled with faults.

In all three cases I chose to do a roll back. In all three cases the roll back was a total failure to such an extent I had to reinstall backup WIN7 OS's.

Of course, because it was Windows, there was 100% chance it would fail to update properly and a 100% chance it wouldn't be able to roll back successfully which is why I did the backups. (Why do I do OS backups? Because on dozens of tests the WIN restore programme has proved totally incapable of restoring. In fact I've never gotten a successfully restored comment from WIN which is why WIN restore is disabled on all my PC's.)

I have absolutely no doubt that they can perfom an upgrade in a court room to almost any PC and that upgrade will have major destructive flaws. And if they roll back it will be a PC full of bugs. So any comment from Microsoft will easily be proven false.

I think the phrase "I had a successful upgrade" could be attributed to not knowing enough about PC's to be able to offer a reliable comment.

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Coping with Windows 10 - Replace it with Ubuntu 17.04

I look after a Community computer room, and often get asked for help from struggling users who got upgraded from Windows 7 etc to Windows 10.

Trashed Data often has occurred. I don't attempted to repair the OS as its vastly inferior to any Ubuntu which I regard as a professional product.. Which cannot, in my view, be said on most of Microsoft's offering on Desktop PCs .

One of the methods I use is to remove the Disc out of the desktop PC or Laptop. use GP Parted to wipe the hard disc, create a partition and format it to NTFS using all of the discs capacity.

Put is back the computer. Put an installation disc in the dvd player or memory stick and find a way of booting from it and install Ubuntu 17.04 which is available 13th April. Its worth the wait !

Note its free of charge !!!

Professional operating systems all use a mostly Unix variant. aka Solaris, BSD Linux.

In my opinion Microsoft won't be offering Desktop/Laptop OSs within 3 years, so so might as well get started now. With Microsoft out of the way computer operating systems choice is Linux or Apple Macs (its core is BSD) , hopefully companys will stall installing that retuned and offer that for sale.

Others may disagree with me, but very few who met some of the grimmer aspects of Windows 10 !

I upgrade one or two computers a month for those who ask for help in the community I support free of charge.

Sad for those who must have software that only run on Windows. Buy a second hand Windows 7 box and turn updates off as every so often one o9f the updates may well be toxic.

As an engineer I like stuff that just works.

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