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back to article Anti-TV Licensing petition gets May date for Parliament debate

The BBC TV Licensing fee is set to be debated in Parliament in early May after a public petition passed the 100,000 signature mark. The petition calls for TV Licensing revenues to be deducted from "service providers" instead of being collected directly from households in the UK. At the time of writing it stands at 107,779 …

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            1. Anonymous Coward
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              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Repeats

              10 episodes covering 2.5 months, maybe 3 months if you watch their extra show that REPEATS bits form the last 2.5 months.

              Then the rest of the 9 months of the year, it is back to repeats of old versions talking about the news which is no longer news.

              Love the shows but think they should be more new episodes. These panels shows are pretty cheap to produce compared to others.

              Just Cohen screwed up a lot of the panels shows by insisting women are present in every episode, so they get stuck in like a token person. Not funny and half the time not got a clue what is going on.

              0 0 Reply
          2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
            Reply Icon
            Joke

            "Mock the Repeat?

            Have I got News for you (repeat) (nothing to do with current news)

            Great programs and probably the only thing I do watch from the BBC now but new episodes are rarer than rocking horse shite.

            Are you confusing the BBC with Dave?

            0 0 Reply
          3. Kane
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            Joke

            "Mock the Repeat?"...

            "...but new episodes are rarer than rocking horse shite."

            Then your rocking horse needs a high fibre diet.

            0 0 Reply
        2. Dave 15
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          some of us like...

          Yes we do, pity the bbc has no real science, engineering, history or even real music left. And if you cut the licence out it might choose to go up market and cater for people who are not knuckle dragers on at least some of its programs.

          BTW radio 4 used to have some content but is now just an arts paradise - even when they try and cover science or engineering they find an author or painter rather than a scientist or engineer for the interview.

          2 1 Reply
          1. TRT Silver badge
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            Re: some of us like...

            I'll just go and find my boss, the Professor of Neurology here at the hospital, and let him know that BBC 4 have cancelled the interview with him tomorrow evening. I reckon that two of the other Professors here, Molecular Genetics and Biochemistry, must be having an affair because THEY disappeared together for the evening last year and used the excuse of recording an interview for the BBC World Service.

            Thank you for enlightening me as to what REALLY goes on to produce Science Programming on the radio and television.

            0 0 Reply
          2. Roj Blake Silver badge
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            Re: some of us like...

            The Life Scientific? Inside Science?

            0 0 Reply
      2. James 51
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        FAIL

        Dr. Who.

        12 3 Reply
    2. Jim84
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      Public good

      Looking at the situation over the pond in the US where every political tribe has its own sheltered News Channel, I'd say the BBC is a public good in that it enables some reasonable measured debate and examination of politicians.

      In the wake of the Trump election result there has been a lot of hand wringing about fake news on social media. I think this is letting highly partisan news channels like FOX news off the hook to a large degree.

      They should just rename the TV licencing fee the "Independent Impartial Public Television News Fee".

      Everything in the US is driven by the need to retain the attention of viewers. Which leads to sensationalist news/candidates being able to dominate the news cycle. Having a news station that can safely ignore this bollacks and focus on issues that will actually affect people in the country (due to guaranteed funding) is a good thing.

      The BBC or anyone is never going to be perfectly impartial all the time, but they are a world better than FOX, MSNBC, CNN etc.

      25 8 Reply
      1. dervheid
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        Re: Public good

        No. The BBC does NOT operate for the 'Public Good'.

        It is not, nor has it ever been 'Impartial'.

        It is heavily biased towards the establishment status quo.

        It is, in effect, the televisual arm of The Ministry Of Truth.

        10 26 Reply
        1. whileI'mhere
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          Re: Public good

          I disagree about it not operating FOR the public good, but you fail to understand the subtle but important difference between "for the public good" and "a public good". Whatever your OPINION as to whether it operates in the public good or not, it is clearly a public good.

          0 0 Reply
      2. Dave 15
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        Re: Public good

        What????

        The BBC does not investigate any story in enough depth to provide any facts. Further most of its 'news' output is merely personal opinion or guess work. It fails to follow up on anything. Its constant bleating that it is impartial and provides information is demonstrably false. The BBC is no better han any of the american channels and it could be argued is worse than some. Once upon a time it might have done some real reporting but is does NOT now

        3 1 Reply
        1. wolfetone Silver badge
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          Re: Public good

          "The BBC does not investigate any story in enough depth to provide any facts. Further most of its 'news' output is merely personal opinion or guess work. It fails to follow up on anything. Its constant bleating that it is impartial and provides information is demonstrably false. The BBC is no better han any of the american channels and it could be argued is worse than some. Once upon a time it might have done some real reporting but is does NOT now"

          This. Perfect response to what is actually going on with the BBC.

          Take yesterday for example, on International Womens Day. A huge protest outside parliament regarding the inequality of pensions women in this country suffer with.

          Did you hear that on the BBC? Of course you didn't. But I'm sure there are many people here reading it with partners affected by this, or parents, who I'm sure would want them to have that equality.

          0 1 Reply
          1. Ben Tasker
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            Re: Public good

            > Take yesterday for example, on International Womens Day. A huge protest outside parliament regarding the inequality of pensions women in this country suffer with.

            >

            > Did you hear that on the BBC?

            Why yes, yes I did.

            Here's a link - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-39208516

            Here's one about the protests in "latin america" - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-39190655

            Here's an advanced write-up not only of what International Womens Day is, but also of the planned protests - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-39153773

            I suspect if you're not hearing it on the BBC, you're probably not reading or listening in the right places.

            0 0 Reply
            1. wolfetone Silver badge
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              Re: Public good

              "I suspect if you're not hearing it on the BBC, you're probably not reading or listening in the right places."

              You're totally correct. Silly of me to expect it on the 6 o'clock or 10 o'clock news.

              0 0 Reply
    3. wolfetone Silver badge
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      "1) It supposed to be impartial... is it? Or does it support the Left?"

      Of course not. Continually kicking Corbyn yet have that dickhead Nutall parading his disgusting UKIP views on Question Time every bloody week it seems.

      So no. It doesn't support the left. It loves the right though.

      11 12 Reply
      1. Roj Blake Silver badge
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        "1) It supposed to be impartial... is it? Or does it support the Left?"

        Clearly former Young Conservatives chairman Nick Robinson and Bullingdon boy David Dimbleby are Trotskyites intent on ushering in a workers' paradise.

        2 0 Reply
    4. Just Enough
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      > 1) It supposed to be impartial... is it? Or does it support the Left?

      The impartiality of the BBC can be proven by the fact that right-wingers always complain about it being a hot bed of politically correct luvvies, and left-wingers always complain about it being part of the privileged establishment.

      >2) Does it produce content that the majority of people want to watch or does it tick boxes for political correctness?

      Have you ever seen BBC1 Saturday Night telly? You don't get more mainsteam.

      25 6 Reply
    5. MJI Silver badge
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      Good reasons for BBC

      How about David Attenborough?

      Planet Earth 2 beat X Craptor final for viewing figures.

      Mainstream, high quality and the sort of stuff the BBC does best.

      20 3 Reply
      1. DJO Silver badge
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        Re: Good reasons for BBC

        The best indicator of their impartiality is that both the left and the right criticise the BBC, both accuse the BBC of supporting the opposing side.

        Love or loath the BBC it is a 1000 times better than any likely possible alternative.

        22 4 Reply
        1. Ben Tasker
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          Re: Good reasons for BBC

          >The best indicator of their impartiality is that both the left and the right criticise the BBC, both accuse the BBC of supporting the opposing side.

          Tends to be on the basis of a single episode (or series) too.

          I think, overall, the BBC tends to be pretty impartial, but if you only watch one series you may perceive a slant.

          1 2 Reply
      2. Dave 15
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        Re: Good reasons for BBC

        IF it does good things then people would pay subscription/pay per view/buy merchandise (dvd, books etc)

        Then it would not need the licence

        There are plenty of examples of commercial organisations producing decent quality stuff for the discerning and making a living WITHOUT the benefit of an enforced poll tax.

        1 3 Reply
    6. Patrician
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      " It supposed to be impartial... is it? Or does it support the Left?"

      Considering I see complaints of bias on the BBC from both left and right wings I'd say that's proof of impartiality, wouldn't you?

      "Does it produce content that the majority of people want to watch or does it tick boxes for political correctness?"

      Yes it does, way more than it's commercial competitors, that seem to think that all everyone wants is yet more reality TV.....

      16 4 Reply
      1. Wilseus
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        "Considering I see complaints of bias on the BBC from both left and right wings I'd say that's proof of impartiality, wouldn't you?"

        Not really, no, because the bias that the BBC allegedly has is not one that can properly be defined in terms of Left or Right. In fact those two terms have very little meaning in mainstream UK politics these days. Much as they would both bitterly deny it, the Tories and the majority of Labour MPs have far, far more in common than the things they disagree on.

        The BBC's true bias is more of a cultural-liberal establishment one. That is why it is hostile to both Corbyn and to Nuttall: they are both a threat to the establishment. In the same vein, it's also far from impartial on things like Brexit, I've read loads of articles with the headline "such and such doing well, despite Brexit."

        And I'm speaking as someone who is firmly in favour of keeping the licence fee.

        1 0 Reply
    7. David Nash Silver badge
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      "Does it produce content that the majority of people want to watch "

      It does if you accept that this content is spread across all of the BBC's output. ie. no one programme is going to appeal to everyone (or even "the majority").

      But I bet even the rabid BBC-haters can find something on the BBC that they like, even if it's the weather forecast. And don't forget the web site. I bet all BBC-haters' kids have used the education stuff on there. Unfortunately that also means that said haters will also always find lots that they don't want to watch.

      One of the best things about the BBC is the minority output (and I don't necessarily mean typical minorities such as ethnic, sexuality or the like, I just mean stuff that only a small number of people want to watch). That is what would be under greatest threat if it was more commercialised.

      11 0 Reply
      1. MJI Silver badge
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        Minority output is good, but mainstream they do well

        Quite a bit really. I like to watch Michael Portillos journeys., they are good, then the strange or unusual quizzes like Only Connect.

        Neither big but both worth watching.

        Main stream, some really good stuff, how about Death in Paradise? Or for sitcoms Not Going Out?

        Then they try stuff out like Taboo.

        As to main stream, imagine an ITV version of Strictly Come Dancing? They would be adding lots of shouting, Aantanddec, reality show nobodies, and Simon Cowell.

        2 0 Reply
    8. IsJustabloke
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      Meh

      Hmmm...

      "2) Does it produce content that the majority of people want to watch or does it tick boxes for political correctness?"

      I dunno about the majority but I watch BBC or netflix... I can count teh number of progs I watch on ITV on one hand... ITV shows always strike me as decidedly low rent

      5 0 Reply
      1. MJI Silver badge
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        Re: iTV low rent

        It is telling when you can count the ITV programmes you currently watch a week on one finger.

        1 0 Reply
        1. Rich 11
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          Re: iTV low rent

          It is telling when you can count the ITV programmes you currently watch a week on one finger.

          Broadchurch?

          1 0 Reply
          1. MJI Silver badge
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            Re: iTV low rent

            Well I did watch Benidorm last week - it was OK (wife recorded it).

            Not actually seen Broadchurch as I rarely watch channels with on screen logos, I purposely only record stuff not wrecked by on screen shit. Basically BBC, C4, and Film 4

            0 0 Reply
      2. Korev Silver badge
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        Re: Hmmm...

        I initially missed out on Broadchurch as there's so much crap on ITV that I'd stopped checking what's on.

        3 0 Reply
    9. Mage Silver badge
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      Re: shot themselves

      Yes

      Too much reality TV, chasing ratings, and propaganda of various curious types. I don't think "left" or "right", it's more complicated.

      Too much fake science now.

      However BBC content and governance is a separate problem to TV licence. Here in Ireland we have a TV Licence (which applies if TV works, even if it's Analogue or 405 lines, or no aerial historically because of UK reception, Cable TV and MMDS. They nearly brought in TV licence in 1950s though Irish TV started late night 31st Dec 1961, basically 1962). Even RTE radio is dire, unless less you want what is on Lyric FM or the pop on 2FM.

      RTE is full of overpaid managers, overpaid cult of presenters and nearly no useful content. Irish people have Adverts on RTE *AND* have to pay TV licence even if TV is only used for Netflix. If it's a computer, it's liable for TV licence if it can get live TV.

      Careful what you wish for, it might be what Murdoch or Silicon Valley wants.

      1 0 Reply
      1. MJI Silver badge
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        Re: Irish TV

        When I was last over there all the office girls were discussing Eastenders.

        I think a lot of Irish people watch the BBC!

        0 0 Reply
    10. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
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      "1) It supposed to be impartial... is it? Or does it support the Left?"

      You and the Right may think that. Oddly, the Left think the BBC supports the Right. Sounds like it's more or less in the centre then, so job done.

      0 0 Reply
  2. anthonyhegedus Silver badge

    If you actually look at the wording of the petition, you'll see it's written by someone with little, if any, grasp of the situation. "It should be included through your provider for free" he says. What provider? I don't have a provider, millions of people don't have a provider. Why should it be free? One way around it is to use the netflix model and open the market up to many countries, including of course the US. Then it'll be probably more like the £10 a month that netflix charges, saving £40 a year for households that want it. But then it won't be British-orientated so much.

    And it'll still cost something.

    21 0 Reply
    1. Dan 55 Silver badge
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      Megaphone

      "It should be included through your provider for free" - and remember, this has passed the MPs' sanity filter.

      Given the current political landscape, I think the MPs' sanity filter isn't what it's cracked up to be. Unless I've misunderstood and its job is to filter out sane things in which case it's working very well.

      9 0 Reply
    2. Just Enough
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      What provider?

      Could it be any more obvious that this was written either by an employee of Sky, or someone whose entire life revolves around its output? They cannot conceive of anyone not having some kind of contract with a media company and either a dish on the side of their house, or a cable. They've no idea that many watch TV through an aerial.

      14 0 Reply
      1. MJI Silver badge
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        Re: What provider?

        So who will pay for me?

        Freesat?

        Freeview?

        Amazon?

        Two are free and one is streaming for CHM.

        Proof petition is stupid

        7 0 Reply
    3. DavCrav
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      "One way around it is to use the netflix model and open the market up to many countries, including of course the US. Then it'll be probably more like the £10 a month that netflix charges, saving £40 a year for households that want it. But then it won't be British-orientated so much."

      Nice idea, probably can't be done. The BBC rarely holds worldwide rights for the programmes it shows. Something like iPlayer might work, if all of the licences can be acquired, but for the actual channels it would be more or less impossible to negotiate the licences.

      1 1 Reply
      1. Dave 15
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        Simple fix

        If the BBC either commissioned work with the explicit requirement it had a worldwide licence or just produced its own then it would not have a problem.

        If it was reasonably successful at providing a solution for people to watch for a subscription/payperview/dvdsales based income then people would be very willing to provide content (I don't see youtube, apple or andoid lacking content)

        0 2 Reply
        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          Re: Simple fix

          "If the BBC either commissioned work with the explicit requirement it had a worldwide licence or just produced its own then it would not have a problem."

          Yes it would. The price for the commission is based on selling the UK rights to the BBC, usually for a limited time. That's why iPlayer programmes sometimes are only available for a few weeks or months. The production company can then sell the broadcast rights around the world. If the BBC were to try to commission programmes and grab worldwide rights, it would cost significantly more. They can only do that with the stuff they make themselves.

          0 0 Reply
  3. Lee D Silver badge

    Please list any action taken (beyond "discussing it") about any of the Parliamentary petitions whatsoever.

    And how much happened compared to how many petitions are made every day. If there's even 0.1% that actually result in anything beyond talk whatsoever, I'll be incredibly surprised.

    Like when I was back in school and the pupils petitioned for all kinds of ridiculous things, it doesn't matter how many people sign, nothing happens at all.

    In the most extreme cases, lip service is paid to having a discussion about the issue, and literally nothing happens after that anyway.

    It's a total waste of everyone's time.

    6 2 Reply
    1. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Please list any action taken (beyond "discussing it") about any of the Parliamentary petitions whatsoever.

      That is hard but they do influence those deciding things and do consequently affect outcomes. They are not entirely pointless or a waste of everyone's time; even if it is difficult to discern where a petition has had impact.

      The 'deny Trump a state visit' petition did not succeed, and I doubt anyone actually expected it to, but it does appear to have influenced when that visit will occur and how it will be. It also enabled MPs and others to speak out with the confidence that a huge number supported them in speaking out.

      I can recall legislation and proposals which seemed to have been influenced by petition and public outcry but I'll admit I can't list it; I don't track such things. Disbanding the Red Arrows, Gurkhas, refugees and Tax Credits come to mind but I might be wrong.

      1 0 Reply
  4. Zmodem

    30,000,000 * 145 = £4,350,000,000 and still absolutely nothing on the BBC to watch, get rid of the licence and the BBC and the country will be better off

    thats an extra £4,350,000,000 for the NHS instead of bothering to leave the EU

    10 35 Reply
    1. Terry 6 Silver badge
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      OK I'll feed the Trolls.

      Even if you don't like what's on the BBC most people do like most of it. The Fee isn't part of income tax and won't go to the NHS. Murdoch's (et al) lowest common denominator TV would remove anything that might stir a couple of brain cells and nothing would ever be broadcast that differed from those proprietor's world view.

      11 3 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
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        Anonymous Coward

        Yours is really the standard pro argument

        1) Murdoch does not have a monopoly.

        2) Other channels have demonstrated non advertising models.

        3) The BBC is not impartial, just not.

        4) By definition you cannot please all the people all the time.

        So essentially, since you don't pay for my HBO subscription, why should I pay for your BBC. You can have it but YOU pay for it.

        16 26 Reply
        1. codejunky Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          Re: Yours is really the standard pro argument

          @ jeremy 3

          "So essentially, since you don't pay for my HBO subscription, why should I pay for your BBC. You can have it but YOU pay for it."

          1000 times this. It amazes me that the BBC is so important to so many people and so well loved right up until someone suggests they pay for it. If it is so wonderful then people will surely choose to pay for it instead of charging those who dont use it.

          *And now for the downvotes to make my point

          11 7 Reply
          1. Anonymous Coward
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            Anonymous Coward

            Re: the BBC is so important to so many [...] right up until someone suggests they pay for it.

            Erm, I pay my TV license, as do lots of people.

            So, just out of curiosity, do you have an estimate of the numbers of these "so many people" who love the BBC but refuse to pay? Are they a significant fraction of BBC viewers/listeners? Or was your statement just some kind of rhetorical device?

            9 0 Reply
            1. codejunky Silver badge
              Reply Icon

              Re: the BBC is so important to so many [...] right up until someone suggests they pay for it.

              @AC

              "So, just out of curiosity, do you have an estimate of the numbers of these "so many people" who love the BBC but refuse to pay? Are they a significant fraction of BBC viewers/listeners? Or was your statement just some kind of rhetorical device?"

              Interesting fail that shows a lack of understanding or a hope that your comment isnt thought about too hard. First about those who love but dont pay, isnt the BBC IPlayer now insisting people must have a TV license because people would watch the show instead of buying a license to watch it live? But back to the actual point you seem to avoid which is yes you pay your TV license but NO you dont pay enough for your service. Instead people who dont watch the BBC but watch other live TV services they actually want to still have to pay for YOUR service.

              So my comment stands. If those who dont use the BBC didnt have to pay the TV tax then you would have to pay the BBC the actual price of your service. While those people would see their bill reduce by the cost of the TV tax.

              3 5 Reply
          2. David Nash Silver badge
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            Re: Yours is really the standard pro argument

            "just pay for it"

            er. we do. I pay my licence fee.

            2 1 Reply
            1. Zmodem
              Reply Icon

              Re: Yours is really the standard pro argument

              why would you want to waste £10 on nothing, when you have to pay for sky, netflix, prime, etc which you actually use and have something to actually watch

              the only time the bbc is important is if a nuclear bomb drops, and then nobody will know about it because nobody watches the bbc

              1 8 Reply

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