back to article Space Commanders rebel as Elite:Dangerous kills offline mode

Elite:Dangerous, the revival of classic eight-bit space trading game Elite, won't have a single-player offline mode and space commanders are mad as hell. Frontier Developments, the game's developer, revealed the demise of offline mode in a recent newsletter in which it argues “A fully offline experience would be unacceptably …

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    1. dan1980

      @AC

      Actually, in impacts everyone.

      They have made key components (trade) inextricably linked to their servers. That means that the servers must be up to play the game.

      It also means that latency to servers is likely to impact the experience.

      Now, this is made more relevant as the game was crowd-funded because Frontier couldn't find a publisher to back them, which means that they just don't have the same resources of the big players to operate and run servers. The can do that - of course - but the questions are around how well they will work, how widely distributed they will be, how stable they will be and how far into the future they will be operational.

      What this means is that Frontier have to figure out a way to cover the costs of running the servers. They already have microtransactions for cosmetic items - paint jobs - but what if that doesn't bring in enough revenue? What then?

      Remember Diablo 3. That required an online connection and they helpfully setup a 'real money' auction house that, conveniently allows Blizzard to take a slice. That was billed as purely optional but what people feared from the start was EXACTLY what happened - drop rates were abysmal.

      What that ended up doing was not only funneling more people to the auction house but driving up prices for players (and revenues for Blizzard).

      So, forcing people online can have massive implications for the way a game works.

      Be naive if you want but please don't go around pretending that just because you are fine with a decision, that other are too.

      I think the backlash serves to show just how many people this is putting offside.

  1. sabroni Silver badge
    Happy

    It's for kids!

    Grow up!

    1. frank ly

      Re: It's for kids!

      My inner child just told you to eat his shorts. I'll have stern words with him.

  2. Kiarr

    Erm non story

    Offline mode has not been canned its still there all they are changing is that occasionally it will update the galaxy with things that the online game has found.

    This sounds like a very good thing to me - want to potter around the galaxy on your own - go for it but you can now see the planets routes etc that people have found changing the galaxy in a more natural way than just generating things randomly does.

    Quite honestly who actually has totally offline machines at the moment that don't occasionally see the internet? Who actually plays offline games where they have put out content patches online without the patches? I suspect that if you never want to update the game then it will still keep going just not with the newer stuff

    1. deMangler

      Re: Erm non story

      That is not true. A continuous internet connection is required even for solo on-line.

    2. pip25
      Unhappy

      Re: Erm non story

      It has been confirmed that the game servers handle all financial transactions - meaning every time you buy or sell something, it will need to connect to the server. That's light years away from "occasionally", in fact, that's pretty much an "always online" game. It also means that when the servers go offline, the game dies too. :/

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    It was too good to be true.

    Now, do I hope they still sell well, so they can fund a Single Player mode later on ?

    Or do I hope they lose everything, to serve as an example for other dishonest developers.

    The latter ! >-(

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No-one is being forced to play multiplayer.....that is not what has been removed. You can still play the game entirely solo and never encounter another human being.

    1. janimal

      For as long as they can fund the servers right? So in the long term without subs or micro-transactions how will they do that?

    2. nematoad

      "No-one is being forced to play multiplayer"

      You are missing the point.

      It's not the fact that Elite:Dangerous is multiplayer or solo, it's the fact that the developers have removed the option to play offline.

  5. Wombling_Free

    5,000+ people show themselves to be slightly illiterate...

    Including the Reg it seems.

    The newsletter did not state that offline was being removed.

    It stated, quite clearly, that offline mode (it's still there!) is required to connect 'from time to time'. I think this can be taken in a positive light, as there are *plenty* of examples of software that needs to connect 'from time to time' for all sorts of reasons.

    Frontier have only modeled the entire Galaxy - probably a bit of a stretch to fit that in 4GB of RAM at 32bits, really!

    I for one can't wait - I've been looking forward to this day for about 28 years...

    Declaration of Conflict of Interest: Alpha Backer, who has spent way too much time of late carving up asteroids in my Hauler, about to upgrade to Cobra to do some heavier trade runs. I want to try to get a Clipper before the next wipe! Right on, Commanders!

    1. Loki 1

      Re: 5,000+ people show themselves to be slightly illiterate...

      Quote: Frontier have only modeled the entire Galaxy - probably a bit of a stretch to fit that in 4GB of RAM at 32bits, really!

      Why? They did it originally on an 800k floppy disk. Its all procedurally generated except for core systems..

      1. Tony Paulazzo

        Re: 5,000+ people show themselves to be slightly illiterate...

        Original Quote: Frontier have only modeled the entire Galaxy - probably a bit of a stretch to fit that in 4GB of RAM at 32bits, really!

        Why? They did it originally on an 800k floppy disk. Its all procedurally generated except for core systems..

        Not to be pedantic (well, ok, yes I am), but it actually took 3 3.5in 720KB floppy disks to create the galaxy in Elite: Frontier (and you could actually zoom out to galaxy view which was beautiful) - this played in the 640KBs of main system memory. The original Elite just had a massive universe (or 4 of them I think).

        1. robmobz

          Re: 5,000+ people show themselves to be slightly illiterate...

          8 universes and all in 16kB of ram.

      2. petax

        Re: 5,000+ people show themselves to be slightly illiterate...

        Indeed on a cassette tape in my case :-)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 5,000+ people show themselves to be slightly illiterate...

      And you are too illiterate to have read that any time you need Galaxy info, you need to connect.

      So the game is NOT playable offline.

    3. Not That Andrew

      Re: Wombling_Free shows himself to be totally illiterate...

      It's true it didn't directly state "no offline mode", but Frontier Developments have since clarified that that was what they meant, and no, single player online is not the same as playing offline.

      I'll leave it up to the experts to fully address your remark about 4Gib Ram, but IMO any program that needs to load all it's data into memory either has some extremely specific requirements and limitations that most modern PC games are unlikely to meet, or is just badly designed.

    4. IainAM

      Re: 5,000+ people show themselves to be slightly illiterate...

      @Wombling_Free - That's not right, Offline mode isn't still there! The 'connect from time to time' is every single time you dock/trade/take a mission/explore. You will need a constant, stable connection, but it doesn't have to be a fast one.

    5. Tom 38

      Re: 5,000+ people show themselves to be slightly illiterate...

      ..offline mode is required to connect 'from time to time'.

      Sorry, who is being illiterate?

    6. dan1980

      Re: 5,000+ people show themselves to be slightly illiterate...

      @Wombling_Free

      Trade and many other events REQUIRES internet connectivity. It's not a check-in. Or, at least, the check-ins are so frequent you would not be able to spend any appreciable fraction of time 'offline'.

  6. Not That Andrew

    Thanks for posting this, I don't pay much attention to the forums or newsletters. I'm seriously pissed at them now. I only backed on the promise of offline play, online multiplayer does not interest me, it was a nice bonus in my opinion. But if that was my primary interest I'd have backed Star Citizen.

    I have just filed a ticket for a refund

    Guess I'll have to continue playing Oolite (and Pioneer) for my Elite fix.

    1. IainAM

      @Not That Andrew - It doesn't have to be multiplayer, there's a Solo mode as well, just no offline.

      1. Not That Andrew

        @ IainAM

        I'm aware of the online single player, but that is not what I wanted, and is not what I was promised. If they hadn't left this announcement until a month before release, I probably wouldn't be so cheesed either.

        I can fire up DosBox and play Frontier if want to, but I doubt I'll still be able to play E:D in 10 years time.

        1. IainAM

          Re: @ IainAM

          @ Not That Andrew

          Fair enough, I mentioned it just in case. Genuinely sorry you're not getting offline.

          As for E:D still being playable in 10 years, I hope it is but who knows :-/

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @IainAM... I'm not sure this reality can even describe the context of your post.

        Notice "Offline play" being requested. No one said "singleplayer" is required. They said "offline" is.

        Let's break this down. First word.

        "Offline".

        Second word.

        "Multiplayer".

        Note, neither are the same. We can have offline multiplayer and online singleplayer. But offline is required for a game to be offline.

        Andrew requested "offline" gameplay. So why, for the love of all that exists, did you say "It doesn't have to be multiplayer" and that they can play "Solo mode as well" when they asked for offline play.

        1. IainAM

          Re: @IainAM... I'm not sure this reality can even describe the context of your post.

          The second phrase, not word, was 'multiplayer online', which leaves a third choice which some people didn't know existed. I thought I'd check.

          Not That Andrew himself managed to reply without being overly pedantic or aggressive, care to try again?

  7. SteveTroughton

    This is really just a case of those shouting loudest. There have been several polls about the withdrawal of the offline mode. Most aren't that bothered.

    1. Sixtysix

      Polls about off-line mode... Obvious FLAW is OBVIOUS

      The folks who CARE about off-line mode are...

      ...guess what...

      ...go on...

      ...obvious flaw reveal...

      THE LEAST LIKELY TO VOTE IN AN ON-LINE POLL.

      Oh FFS...

      1. ollieclark

        Re: Polls about off-line mode... Obvious FLAW is OBVIOUS

        Almost impeccable logic there if it wasn't for the fact that the ones upset about no off-line version are the ones shouting loudest on an on-line forum. Yeah, doesn't make sense but there you go.

        Of course they could be so outraged they've been driven to rig up some wet string, a potato battery and a morse key to send their messages. But then they could vote as well.

      2. Tony Paulazzo

        Re: Polls about off-line mode... Obvious FLAW is OBVIOUS

        The folks who CARE about off-line mode are...

        THE LEAST LIKELY TO VOTE IN AN ON-LINE POLL.

        I think Douglas adams said it best:

        'Many men, of course, became extremely rich. But this was perfectly natural and nothing to be ashamed of, because no one was really poor - at least no one worth speaking of...'

  8. Omgwtfbbqtime

    I'll wait

    This is definitely still in the wait and see category, once it is released I'll take a look at the reviews and decide whether or not I want to play this.

    If I wanted to Gank^hhhh interact with people I'd play Eve so the mmo really doesn't interest me.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I'll wait

      They released the original for free recently. I'll wait for this one. With current requirements in coding/porting/hardware and IP copyright we are looking at 50 years time for Elite Dangerous to be "free"?

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  10. IainAM

    I understand that from Frontier Development's perspective the game was always intended to be online, and that offline was an addition after it was requested by a vocal minority during the kickstarter. It's not that this minority don't matter but that FD have limited resources. They put time and resources into trying to make it happen but the way the online game has developed has meant that offline would need a separate development path and be a different game.

    If you're looking for more factual detail the developers have answered a lot of questions over the weekend and they've been collected here:

    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=59481

    I do think it's a real shame there won't be an offline mode, but there's hope for those with a crap connection because solo online isn't data heavy, a dial-up connection could be enough to run it.

    1. Tom 38

      Are you saying they knew they would be unlikely to deliver an offline mode, but still said they would in order to take peoples money?

      1. IainAM

        @Tom 38

        No, absolutely not. I didn't mean to give that impression.

        Whilst it was essentially an added feature they took it on genuinely thinking they could deliver.

        That question, amongst many others, was asked in the link I posted and is answered by the exec producer.

        Whilst I understand the reasoning behind the removal of offline I think the way that they've communicated the decision is really poor. The answers in the above link should have been given in a stand alone news letter rather than teased out over a weekend of confusion.

  11. Cuddles

    Is anyone actually surprised?

    Elite 4 has been in and out of development for at least a decade, supposedly in parallel with The Outsider which would serve as a test-bed for the technology involved. That would be The Outsider that was announced in 2005, scheduled for release in 2009 and... is currently in development. Anyone sensing a theme here? Elite 4 was last cancelled around 2011, although supposedly work never completely stopped on it. Oddly enough, most of the development history has been removed from Wikipedia.

    But hey, everyone threw money at Star Citizen, so why not replace the 4 with "Dangerous", pretend it's not vapourware that's been hanging around for a decade, and get some suckers to throw money at it. And surprise surprise, the game said suckers were promised is not actually what they're going to get. But let's be honest, with this kind of history they should really just count themselves lucky that anything is getting released at all.

    1. SteveTroughton

      Re: Is anyone actually surprised?

      Wow, you've obviously researched thoroughly before posting. Have you even seen any footage of what was actually a skunkworks project prior to Kickstarter funding?

  12. deMangler
    FAIL

    To add to the reasons why for many people off-line is essential.

    Many people, myself included, play Elite a bit like a rogue-like game. There is a reason these games are all single player. Dwarf-Fortress, ADOM, Nethack, etc. It is because we like to be in our world in a considered way. We like to pause and think about it. We like to know we will be coming back to it in whatever amount of time and continue.

    I believe this is part of the reason Iron-Man mode was fought for so successfully in the forum and DDF - because there is a strong element of the same kind of enjoyment as rogue-likes for Elite players, and this will be why many bought it or backed it.

    I know it was a large part of it for me, and was why off-line was an essential feature. Where the main game was, for me.

    1. Not That Andrew

      Yeah, that's pretty much how I play Elite (or Oolite) and why I wanted offline.

  13. Soft Sell

    Nerd rage know no bounds

    It's nice to see that the nerd rage can span forums. I could offer that there is an offline version of the game at the moment ... it is the tutorials.

    The problem is that the game client is exactly that, a client and the universe is running on an Amazon cloud service. Join the dots and you realise that they have not and probably will not be porting that Amazon service to something that runs on a client workstation.

  14. Amorous Cowherder
    Facepalm

    "This isn't something we can translate into an offline experience as we'd effectively have to make a new game world..."

    Well Bell and Braben did the whole damned thing in 32KB FFS!

  15. Sixtysix

    Seriously? Again? The Internet has Ruined... everything

    I'm livid.

    I do not want a "connected game" - I wanted a cross between Freelancer and Elite that I could run on my laptop, step into and away from for long periods WITHOUT change and worrying if I was on-line (not usually in trains / B&B / hotels which are about the only places I get time to game these days...).

    My son wanted something he could play at Sea (six months at a time) without getting locked out (and yes Steam "Off-line mode", I'm looking at your crude "lock out all games after a week of no internet" operation).

    Bah.

    1. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Re: Seriously? Again? The Internet has Ruined... everything

      One week? That's changed a lot then!

      When I first bought Half-Life 2 I was working on a ship and happily played for a couple of months offline after burning several shore leaves getting the damned thing updated.

      1. Sixtysix

        Re: Seriously? Again? The Internet has Ruined... everything

        Indeed.

        Used to be able to play Valve stuff without any sniff of an internet and I ran LAN meets in those days. Gave that up as a bad joke up once an internet connection was starting to be essential to get everyone on the same patch, and the whole remembering to go to off-line issue is just as bad!

        We originally thought my son had some other issue that was forcing "offline mode" to die as the timing was not consistent, but no. Designed that way because developers cannot understand that not everyone has internet, even intermittently/low bandwidth. Sometimes it times out after a day or two - more usually about 6 days but he's never managed more than 8 days before Steam, and ALL games associated with Steam, refuse to load unless they can smell the interwebs.

        Living in deep dark rural Scotland my internet speed/latency has never been great, but it's always miles better than his! After timeout he has six weeks transit to the next port, and the faint off-chance that he can get someone to cover his shifts (rare) to rush to a shore based Seamans mission, chance some dodgy extremely low bandwidth Wi-Fi, fight with Steam Authentication ("You seem to have logged in at a new location"), and then get the inevitable Steam update to download/complete before he has to rush back...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Seriously? Again? The Internet has Ruined... everything

          If it is any help... some of the problems were with Windows failing to report the internet connection correctly. So Steam thought you were connected, but it got a "no response".

          However, that is still broken "by design", and while not "on purpose" there was little reason to fix it, as the "error" worked to their advantage. :/

  16. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. werdsmith Silver badge

      Re: Irony Barrel-Scraping.

      That was a bit desperate.

  17. Alien8n
    Alien

    Jumpgate

    Hopefully this won't go the way of Jumpgate. Jumpgate was a very nice Elite style space game, but the single biggest issue with it was the sheer volume of idiots who decided that the only way they could enjoy the game was to spawn camp and kill everyone regardless of affiliations. This then had the result of driving a lot of the core gamers away from the servers.

    Personally I've stayed away from Elite: Dangerous for the time being as I found the cost of participating in the Alpha and Beta releases to be eye wateringly exhorbitant.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Jumpgate

      You can - and will in the final release - be able to play in Solo Mode.

      That means that you don't HAVE to play 'multiplayer' with idiots abounding, you can play in a world just with NPC ships.

      One of the problems the griefers have had is that they turn up at a space station and bully people and then everyone just jumps in to the system in Open Play, logs out, logs back in in Solo Mode and flies in to the space station and the griefers never see them. It's a neat solution that overcomes that whole Goon bullying thing.

      I bought in to the 2nd round Beta for £50, which is about the price you pay for a game these days. I'd hardly describe it as 'exorbitant'.

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