back to article Vista sets 2007 land-speed record for copying and deleting

It's been almost nine months since we first reported on Windows Vista's inability to copy, delete and move files without stalling indefinitely, and yet the problem continues. Screenshot of Windows Vista copy window Screenshots relayed this week by two Reg readers say it better than we ever could. "48167 Days and 23 hours …

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  1. Robert Armstrong
    Gates Horns

    Network shares that are unavailable slowed my Vista down to a crawl

    On my home net I have 2 XP boxes, a Mandriva box and a sparkling new shiny Dell Vista box. 4 modern PC all of them, none over 3 years old and all run very well. Everything has worked well on Vista except when I found some issues with extreme slowness.

    I found that Vista will boot quite slow if a shared network drive that it is permanently mapped to is unavailable. I had mapped to drives on the 3 non-Vista boxes and could transfer files fine but I never tried more than a GB of transfers. I found that when I powered down the other systems and only bring the Vista box up it took almost 5 minutes to boot which was not typical. I also found that once Vista did boot, it took up to 1/2 hour to open the My Computer icon so I could my drives. Yet when I powered the other 3 non-Vista systems up the My Computer icon opened instantly when I clicked it, which is typical on the XP boxes as well.

    So I removed the permanently mapped drives on the Vista box from the non-Vista systems I had powered off. I then rebooted and Vista booted normally, yes still slower than XP, but it was normal for Vista. And once booted up, I could click on My Computer and it opened instantly as one would expect.

    The lesson I learned, permanent network connections that are unavailable make Vista slow to a crawl in ways one would not ever expect. Perhaps some who are experiencing odd copying behavior may have a permanent network drive mapped that is unavailable. Check that out, maybe my experience is unique but I doubt it.

    Cheers!

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Boffin

    @ Steven Hewittt - Command prompt?!

    is that supposed to be Hewitt? Please learn to spell your own name ...

    "As mentioned above, this appears to be a bug not in the Vista OS as a whole, but in explorer. Use command line and it all works fine. This sorta rules out the whole DRM conspiracy. Also rules out hardware not being up to scratch."

    I challenge you to even find the dammed icon for 'Command Prompt' in Vista, since 95% of Windows users only know pointy clicky.

    On the occasions I need the command prompt, like when I need to actually accomplish something instead of watching pointless shiny flashy crap whilst the computer strokes itself. I use the run box and type CMD ... but I digress, as much as I use the CLI in windows it might was well be DOS.

    <rant mode .. ON!>

    And then I see these idiot Windows 4sshat fanb0is pissing and moaning they might have to use a command line if they get a Linux system!

    idiots!

    Whats more Vista "wakes up" a bunch of DRM routines something like 20 to 40 times a SECOND ... no conspiracy needed Microslut sold out to the RIAA/MPAA like a very expensive crack whore.

    I have a few computers at home .. who doesn't? .. no Macs, but a few Linux boxes ... even XP is a turd in Comparison, which BTW I only keep for games, but not for long thank all that's holy.

    The thought of actually relying on Vista to get anything done is enough to make me think about working in fast food for a living.

    so I use PCLINUXOS its heaps easier to deal with, fix, or use than any flavor of windohs I've had to endure over the last 12 years of being an IT wizard. They have gotten WINE to the point that many windows programs will work very well on Linux ... the most bizarre thing is that when you run a setup that takes a long time in Windows it moves so fast in WINE that I thought it was broken at first.

    Oh and PCLinuxOS will ZIP along on any hardware that Vista will work with ... did I mention its FREE ?

    http://tinyurl.com/378pnx

    http://www.pclinuxos.com/

  3. Steven Pockett
    Pirate

    VistaActivator?

    Well despite the fact there are many clues on the photo that would lead one to assume it has been 'shopped, isn't the penultimate item - the one that is slightly obscured by the name of VistaActivator - one of those programmes you use when you do naughty things like make illegal copies of O/S software? Perhaps the machine knew this and decided to halt the impending piracy?

  4. Paul Delaney

    Configure it like this

    You can get XP speed out of Vista even on 2003 vintage hardware if you do this:

    http://wintechniques.koolhost.com/

    or

    http://wintechniques.awardspace.com/

    I wrote it - it works and it's reversible!

  5. Craig Edwards
    Coat

    @ Get a Mac

    Sure. I'll go out right now and buy a system that costs a lot more than my wintel system, has less features than my linux system, and lacks the ability to play 99.9% of windows games and has compilation issues with a lot of open source apps. Great idea! *passes coat to OS fanboys*

  6. Charles

    The Estimator's Rule

    There's an old recursive rule called The Estimator's Rule, it says "it takes more time than estimated, even after taking The Estimator's Rule into account."

    But in a way it's true, it's actually an interesting problem in computer science. Computers are notoriously incompetent at giving accurate estimates of program runtime. If you run a program to estimate runtime, that estimation program takes CPU cycles away from the program you're monitoring. You could add another level, to take into account the effect of the monitoring program. But there's another CPU hit. Repeat ad infinitum. You never close in on an accurate estimate, add levels of monitoring and you start diverging from it.

    Well fortunately, ballpark estimates are usually good enough. I notice a similar behavior copying files in MacOS X, initial time estimates can be insane but it quickly settles down to a vaguely accurate ETA, once it starts tracking how fast the transfer is moving.

  7. Morely Dotes
    Flame

    @ michael re: linux huh

    "linux does not play many of the main games out today and prob never will with most of them having to use DX10 soon"

    1. World of Warcraft can be run on Linux. With more than 9 million active players, I'd say it's a "main" game."

    2. Halo 2 supposedly requires DX10. ITts not difficult to tweak XP to fool the game into running, however, and it performs as well as can be expected from a Microsoft release.

    So DX10 is a red herring, and Windows is a red herring. Is the problem that you are afraid to learn something new? (Or possibly, just afraid to learn something?)

  8. Chad H.

    @ Charles

    Forget the Estimators rule, who the heck was he anyway? I live by Montgomery Scott's rule. I'll tell you it will take 3 times as long as it realy will.... Makes me look like a miracle worker.

  9. BitTwister

    @Iain

    > [DirectX] only option for running on the 360; a far nicer platform to play games on than Windows.

    Good point - better to use a dedicated games console with everything geared towards a good games performance, instead of stuffing a PC with expensive wizz-bang hardware only to have it sit there twiddling thumbs when not playing games.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Horns

    New notebook-same problem

    Vista as a whole system isn't that horrible. Its all of the little things that make it annoying. The fact that it takes bloody forever to delete a one kilobyte text file is just the straw that gave the camel hemhorroids. I find it odd that we live in a world where a brand new notebook with a two core AMD Turion 1.8GHz and 2GB memory can be outperformed by a 100MHz Cyrix with 48MB RAM (FreeBSD) in simple tasks like text editing, CD Writing, file copying, etc... and there are people who aren't surprised.

  11. evilbobthebob
    Jobs Horns

    Simple

    Its very simple...a guy from Apple sneaked into M$'s office, planted a few extra zeros on the estimated time calculation bit of Explorer, and waited for the Leopard orders to come flooding in...

  12. Maliciously Crafted Packet
    Joke

    Homework assignment

    OK there seems to be a few people in the class that are not paying attention -you know who you are. For the benefit of the slow learners Im going to type this really slowly in the hope that it may sink in.

    Mac's are not more expensive than PC's of the same spec

    Mac's can run Windows XP and Vista

    Mac's can run LINUX

    Mac's can run all the games that a PC can run

    Microsoft Office works very well on OS X

    Mac OS X is more stable and secure than Windows

    Mac OS X is easier to set up and use than Windows or LINUX

    Mac's can copy files to a network drive faster than Vista

    I want you all to memorise this over the Christmas break and when you come back in the new year there's going to be a test. For those that find this difficult we may have to move some of you back to Windows ME as you will need to sit that module again.

  13. James
    Gates Halo

    Another article by an apple brown noser

    Oh it's so terrible. Why do you nasty people want to criticise M$ in such an unfair manner. Windoze Fistme is such a fantastic (and radicle) product I can't fathorm why anyone would want to detract from it's wonderful undocumented features. Without windoze Fistme the whole industry would be rudderless and without direction. M$ lead the way in creating ubercool products, you should be all be very grateful. For so many to disagree so strongly you must all be Apple brown nosers. I mean why be so beastly and mean about such a little bug, sorry, deliberate feature. I hope you all have something really really horrible happen to you like a bug that makes booting you Mac take 874658364 million years.

    Oh hold on, why am I being so uptight about this, last thing I want to do is throw a hissy fit like the average Apple fanboy/fangirl. Lets try again.

    Right on the money guv. If something basic like file copying is buggered then there is something very wrong. No point trying to defend it M$ are being very very crap and should do something about it. A year is far too long so there's no point defending that either. Ignoring the problem is indefensible so there's no point.....

    Wow, this being objective and realistic is so liberating. It's definitely much better than being uptight and blinkered. Maybe more people should try this (particularly iTwits).

    This rant has been inspired by the average article about Apple problems which results in a million 'stop Apple bashing. Microsoft lackey' comments. It's nice to be free to speak your mind.

  14. xjy
    Dead Vulture

    This thread reads like a nerd's convention

    Tweak this. Remove this or that component and tap three times. Command line override. Keep a spare DOS floppy handy. Rejig the network configuration. Check the motherboard's component specs against the OS standard specs. Pimp the ride with this or that 3rd party enhancer. Don't carry liquids or nail scissors. Did you fill in the form correctly? Ah, you're using 96 octane and it should be 98. Wrong psi in the tires :-)

    Never seen so many clones (Vista/M$ defenders) looking so different from each other. Not just old flavours of M$ to choose between now but multiple permutations of Vista depending on software and hardware versions.

    Bill Gates got out while the going was a bit better than it is now.

  15. Richard Scratcher
    Thumb Up

    OSX? Vista? XP? Linux? Every OS sucks!

    I found this video some time ago. Vista wasn't around then but its message is still relevant.

    http://www.deadtroll.com/index2.html?/video/ossuckscable.html~content

  16. Samuel Lord

    Slow burn...

    ...will finish just in time for Win ME-TWO sp-1 to hit the shelves.

  17. Bill The Cat
    Happy

    Who needs vista?

    I have a fairly new box - 3 hard drives, ATI All-in-Wonder Video card, onboard sound, 2.2 GHz cpu, 2 GB or RAM and Vista says the system isn't capable of running the OS. Fine. Everything else runs on it just fine! Solaris, Linux, Windows XP or Windows 2000.

    Why would I want Vista? From what I've read, its a package of bugs and problems. Maybe I'll upgrade to BeOS

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    RE: Homework Assignment

    I was going to post something similar, but you beat me to it.

    It should be noted: Macs will read and write to FAT files, and read NTFS. I was trying to help a client back up her Vista machine before running a Recovery and it took us TWO HOURS before we in desperation resorted to using the Mac as delivery point. Office 2007 Docs? They were in compatibility mode, so there was no problem, Office for Mac happily took them under its wing. Several thumb drive laden trips later (yup, optical drive wouldn't write), the only files it didn't like was one of the zipped files, and the songs from Windows iTunes version. Hey, at that point we didn't care if it wasn't opened - it was safe and sound and backed up and we could proceed with the reinstall of M$ Vista. So - Mac saves the day.

    Why would you need anything else, when you can dual boot XP on a Mac, or use Parallels and run it virtually? Play all of your games? Boot Linux from Live CD or virtually? Colleges are going to Mac because of that reason - cheaper than having computers for each OS.

    And before you accuse me of being a fanboy...I refuse to use that other spelling...I am typing this on XP.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Dont know what your all moaning about

    The only issues i have are UAC issues with software not designed to work with virtual folders and lower access to system folders, 64 bit vista on my high end system flys, it feels equal to XP in terms of responce even with all the eye candy turned on, HD access times use to be poor, however MS released a patch sometime ago to fix the disk thrashing problems and since then i get sustained throughput of about 70MBps peaking at about 135.

    I have a second test rig which ive not put any AV or 3rd party firewall and even after atempting to go to dodgy websites its still virus free, simpe fact is, if the user doesnt mess about, it will work.

    I believe someone else hit the nail on the head before stating that its mostly OEMS having issues, because all +100 PCs ive built around it work flawlessly

    MACs and Linux are not an alternative, it has its place and is very good at what it does but its place is not mainstream desktops, hell, some distros wont even install on my main system let alone work right. VM is intresting ok though.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    Almost done

    "36843 Days and 0 hours remaining,"

    Hang on, did you see the green bar in the screenshot? It was almost completed - so how long has that user left his computer copying to the CD for their to be a green bar almost completed given there was 36843 days remaining?

    What a patient person...

  21. Jack Greenky
    IT Angle

    Vista - so you can watch the scenery while it loads

    Or maybe other things... (see definitions and previous uses of the word Vista)

    The timing of copying files was a problem earlier than Vista or XP with certain connections and drivers - I saw it too in Windows ME - I did let one file copy go overnight - and it barely started - a small file at unknown slow speed, Thousands of Hours to go reported. That was fixed with an update.

    Usually Vista tester just fails the video card - not compatible or not 128MB or more RAM, but other parts may also not have drivers - So far we only have it on one new laptop, experienced almost all the problems, and solutions, but I have also had some funny DRM errors on XP after some updates and driver conflicts (which were fixable) and even had to get approval for updates on a Windows 98SE (original manufacturer's recovery disk) re-install recently - jackgzero

  22. Tim Butterworth
    Pirate

    Vista RC1

    If MS had designed Vista to run on a very highly controlled set of hardware specs produced by a few preferred manufacturers, then it would have been much easier to make the thing run stable right from first release. Only computers would be three times as expensive. In reality, the huge diversity in hardware and software in the marketplace means that a new MS OS will take at least a year of use in the field to fix and it will also take at least a year for all third party vendors to get drivers etc to work properly. The Vista that went on sale in January was Vista RC1. Vista SP1 is RC2, and Vista SP2 will be Vista stable release.

    In this light, the huge PR disaster that has been Vista RC1 could have been largely avoided. Firstly, MS should never have had such a short overlap between XP support and Vista release. I suggest an OS life span of at least ten years (or fifteen, or even twenty), with at least a three year overlap with the old OS. Secondly, MS should never have acted as if Vista was in perfect working order – this, more than anything, is what has annoyed everyone. I suggest that MS should use incentives to encourage a small percentage of computer users to test-drive the initial release of a new OS and cut out RC2 (SP1) entirely. Perhaps a discount could be given for the first two or three years of an OS release, or RC1 could be given away for free to testers and then give a discount to the testers when the RC1 licence expires upon release of the first stable version. This way the technophiles (even the cynical ones) will all give it a go, as will the more able users who want to save money. Rather than feel that the new OS is forced upon us before it is ready, we will feel like we are getting something back for putting up with the bugs and incompatability issues. It would also mean that there is no market for illegal copies of the new OS for the first few years of its use.

    Everybody wins here – geeks get rewarded to play with a new toy two years ahead of the majority of the population, whilst MS gets time to test its software properly before it goes global. The rest of the population gets an OS that actually works on official release, and thanks to the natural replacement cycle of PC hardware, consumers will have plenty of time to get a higher spec PC. Slowing the rate of OS development will also ease the pressure that forced hardware upgrading places on the environment. The only big downside to this is that MS shareholders will make less money… but considering the unjustifiable mark-up on MS products, this is a bearable change. Microsoft will still retain its market dominance and will suffer from much less bad publicity and bad-mouthing.

    Basically, the current model MS follows will change at some point - can anyone seriously see us going though this palava every five years for ever? Time for MS to be pro-active!

  23. Charles Manning

    Who are the real fanbois?

    People that say "Get a Mac" get labelled as narrow minded fanbois. Is that really fare.

    How much of an MS fanboi must you be to put up with Vista etc and still stick up for MS?

    Fanboi-ism is like religion: being irrationally faithful and rabidly pro without supporting evidence. To be pro-MS, particularly pro-Vista, is not rational. Thus (supporing you're rational enough to hold a basic train of logic) it's the pro-MS that should have the fanboi label.

  24. A

    hmm, dodgy copy of windows here?

    Vista Activator (on the last image)... way to go with the careful screen grab!

  25. Saul Bryan
    IT Angle

    Microsoft Time

    Most of us have long had a chuckle over the "estimated time to completion" or even progress bars which shoot to 99% and then hang there for ages. Basically the operation (file copy, install, delete .. whatever) is happening, but the guestimating of the remaining time has been thrown way out.

    Here is what I would do, if I was a programmer of the dialogue box. Put a conditional on the time which checked to see if it was more than, say, 48 hours. In this case, simply report 48 hours "+" or "or more". Leave it as that, it's already a lot longer than anyone will really wait, and It's already highly doubtful that it's accurate anyway at that, so just give up. At least the ridicule would stop.

  26. david Silver badge

    Win98 Lite?

    Can you install the Win95 Explorer on Vista? Has anyone tried?

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Halo

    48167 days? Thats nothing!

    Ever since I tried to copy and paste several folders on Windows XP from one place to another, and, in the process observed THE PROGRESS BAR GOING BACKWARDS (ie from right to left!), nothing shocks me about progress in copying or burning in Windows Vista. This is not a joke. If you copy and paste say 30 folders on Windows XP you will sometimes witness several progress bars first progressing and then going backwards ie regressing. Its a real jaw-dropper I can assure you. I thought I was halucinating until I repeated it several times.

    So!

    Who cares if it takes Vista 48167 days? If the progress bar only goes FORWARD, by Microflop standards, THATS PROGRESS!

    Get a Mac everyone, and have a merry xmas.

  28. David Wilkinson
    Unhappy

    not just old machines

    A friend of mine build a brand new top of the line machine when vista came out and he has had similar problems.

    I have seen it on two laptops with dual core processors and 2GB of memory that were sold with Vista Premium.

    Just because it works for some people, using some subset of software and hardware doesn't mean that people are not having real problems.

    I ran Vista until it was launched until last week when I switched to dual boot. All that time I still had a half dozen applications I needed that only worked right under XP.

    It doesn't matter if the problems are with 3rd party developers, 3rd party device drivers or buggy code. My experience has been that Vista was buggy XP rock solid on every machine where people were doing more than browsing and email.

    If Vista works great for you then I am envious, I find myself missing many of the features, but I don't miss the problems.

    I will probably do a clean install of Vista once every service pack, but my hopes for SP1 are pretty low at this point.

  29. Thomas Weeks
    Boffin

    Vista Copies Files to the Registry now since there is no WinFS ;)

    You know.. I just don't understand why people hold their breath and continue using MS' involuntary beta testing program (aka "The latest Windows desktop"). I mean they're obviously using their massive desktop install base as a giant beta test pool for their server grade products that always come out the following year with the major bugs fixed. Likewise.. this is also why you see all the big scary SPs roll out first to the lowly desktops.. the screaming and gnashing of teeth, and then, later, when they've fixed most of their fixes, to their production server install base. They're doing what Novell and Red Hat have been doing for years with their crap-free vs commercial distros, only MS is actually charging for the crap desktop test loads too!

    Microsoft clearly has too much code to maintain and internally test themselves now, and it's really starting to show. Sooner or later they're going to have to start relying on the open source model just as Red hat and Novell have embraced... use the public/free open source side as their fast turn around/bug fix engine to push solid, tested, fixed code into their flagship supported product(s). No, MS will probably never embrace the GPL open source license, but they better do something quick... They're having problems just keeping up with open source based competition (OSX built atop BSD, Linux et al, Open Sournce phone distros, Google OS, etc). Even back to 2003 to now Linux was out pacing MS with native support for things like:

    -Mt Mt. Reiner CD/DVD packetized "on the fly" writing

    -Buffer stack overflow protection (stack protection & no-execute bit feature)

    -Native MAC security (e.g. seLinux)

    -Native 3D Desktop Acceleration (xgl and glx + compiz, etc)

    the list goes on and on...

    Get a clue Microsoft... The "idea" of Open Source is out of the bag and thriving... and it's moving waaay faster (and better) than you are. With regards to you and your closed/SaS business model -- simply put,

    "Open Source" = "The world is smarter than you."

    Either learn and internalize this truth or die fighting it.

    Tweeks

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Linux

    You pay for crap, you get crap

    As some of the other comments have said, it does seem incredible that people STILL feel the need to run M$ products when there are BETTER alternatives available...for free. Even the most brain-dead, die-hard Micro$oft user should be able to install a modern Linux system...although they'd probably be lost without having to reboot a thousand times in the process! They'd also be stunned to find that they'd be up and running a fully functional system in a fraction of the time it takes to install a bloated M$ OS. Then they could load it up with any of the thousands of free programs available for every need they could possibly have. No more shelling out hundreds of dollars for bloatware when you can get perfectly good replacements for free. I run my entire business on a Linux network, with no M$ products in sight. I'm just baffled as to why others aren't willing to treat themselves to the same freedoms I have, such as being free of constantly "upgrading" both software and hardware, being free to customize and modify to my heart's content, etc. Wake up, people!

  31. David Perry
    Pirate

    @ Edward Miles

    I've been thinking about this recently - whenever I get queries about Vista, I'm having to tell them I've only used it a handful of times. I'd put Vista on my next machine purely so I have a copy of it running I can get to grips with, however I like my main machine to be stable and be low maintenance - XP Pro SP2 is just that, so think I'll wait a while before touching vista at my house.

    To be fair, when I was installing a wireless network at a client's house last week Vista picked up the Netgear USB dongle, asked for the driver CD then did the installation painlessly once I'd OKed the driver it didn't pester again. Took a couple of minutes to find the wireless config screen though.

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