back to article US demands air passengers ask its permission to fly

Under new rules proposed by the Transport Security Administration (TSA) (pdf), all airline passengers would need advance permission before flying into, through, or over the United States regardless of citizenship or the airline's national origin. Currently, the Advanced Passenger Information System, operated by the Customs and …

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  1. Walter Brown

    1. RE@Guy... 2. Welcome to the U.S.S.A.

    First of all, you non mathematical geniuses, Guy has it right you dumb asses, its 4 days, yes count them 4, because uncle Sergei wants not less than 72 hours (3 days) of advanced time before you are allowed to board a plane in, near or headed to the U.S.S.A.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Go

    Re: The Answer

    Can we add a lid to keep the fumes in?

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    Dont take it out on the American people.

    They have had their government by the people stolen. Now it is government of the people by the corporations. doesn't matter who wins the election ALL of them are in the pocket of one interest or another.

  4. Hank Hogan

    Title

    The folks who thought up and wrote this idiotic proposal apparently have their own private jets and therefore, won't be personally effected by such rules. In all their short-sightedness, they probably think this would somehow out-smart those determined terrorists.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Black Helicopters

    "when you own the media you own opinion"

    I was born american. I'm a Canuck, through and through now. I remember being online 11 Sep 01, and having someone in Australia tell me to turn on the news. I also recall commenting as the first of the towers fell that there would soon be a war.

    I've an open mind, since most of my relatives are american, on american people.

    Its quite clear that ever since the americans caved in to the bankers and dropped the gold standard, something other than rational human interest is running the country.

    It is not the people, but the institutions that manage the country that are precipitating the anger, hate, and despite that are aimed back at 'americans'. Unfortunately most americans can often not see outside the mass media that has been stuffed down their collective throats since birth.

    Given that large numbers of them never get to learn about *all* of history, these folks tend to have terrible perceptions of what has occurred in the past. Unfortunately, this makes it easy for the industrial clique that runs the country to manipulate opinions in a direction that fills their pocketbook. And tends to make those american folks that want to have a rational country easy targets for ridicule.

    Especially since the media are ..... oh - right - - they're part of the clique now aren't they?

    Certainly, its apparent to me and I'm sure quite a few folk, that overall, humanity is giving in to the collective 'path of least resistance' of late. There are no exceptions to this, as essentially across the globe, big business is frequently calling the political shots just about everywhere. Now, is this a good thing or a bad thing?

    If you need to make money and have the right investments, its a very good thing. If you have a heart, and care about your fellow human beings, no matter where they live --- it becomes ***much*** less of a good thing.

  6. Tawakalna
    Pirate

    however..

    ..you could just not fly at all! I don't, haven't for some years now, sick to death of overbearing security and interminable queues. I get trains, or drive, or catch boats, and other than the occasional "are all these parcels yours' sir?" I rarely get bothered and I can have a nice relaxing nap whenever i want, and no cramped cattle class, no trolley dollies, no microwaved slop. Course it means I'm limited to the Continent and surrounding areas like N Africa and Iceland, but who wants to go anywhere further?

    and this year we went to Devon, and very nice it was too. The Kid wanted to go to Disneyworld, but after I explained about the Great Satan and how Mickey was a servant of Iblis and George Bush would send him to Guantanamo for not being American, he came round to my way of thinking :)

  7. Andy
    Alien

    Can't visit, Won't visit

    I am a university graduate, self-employed, fairly well off, intelligent, law-abiding and a positive member of society. I'm even white and know enough of the Bible to pass as Christian (these are apparently valuable traits in America).

    But I won't even bother asking America for entrance.

    More importantly though, how will alien species continue to explore the anal cavities of American farmers? This important research is being threatened by the xenophobic policies of the American government. I strongly suspect that aliens will simply choose to investigate the backsides of Europeans and America will lose valuable trade revenue.

  8. amanfromMars Silver badge

    The OED says ......

    Government ....a business with no invested material assets of its own and a hand in the pockets and tills of everyone elses.

    Crikey crumbs, Bunter, that sounds suspiciously like a criminal scam/conspiracy.

  9. Greg

    @Nick H

    "The last time we left you to yourselves, you invented hitler. Great idea."

    I take it you didn't do history in school, then?

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    Sad, but we have lost the war.

    As more and more of this legislation is put in place to "protect" us when we travel, I simly find myself thinking more and more that the bad guys have won.

    The threat of some madman taking over another plane and crashing into a building has now resulted in a frighteningly Orwellian interest in everyone who might be a passenger on an aircraft which IMHO is not making flying any safer, the terrorists are brighter than that and a less subtle approach has been more successful in causing fear, see the events in Glasgow earlier this year.

    I honestly don't believe the next attack will be of the type carried out on 9/11. The Bali bombing and the London underground attacks prove that the simple aproach of subverting the mind of a young person and persuading them to walk into a crowded place before detonating themselves is a much more effective form of attack. The fear and paranoia this created saw many young asians with rucksacks treated with fear and the shooting of one young man whose identity was mistaken.

    All this approach does is to prove that the authorities are afraid of what the next attack will be and where it will come from. Even with intelligence on who is involved in rabble rousing, the terroroists will still be able to carry out their attacks while governments further restrict the rights of individuals. If this is not losing the war then what is?

  11. mego

    @michael

    >>Oh, and by the way (rest of the world, I'm looking at you), that means no more AIDS money for Africa, no more food for famine stricken countries, no more defense of Iceland (to insert random useless trivia)

    ---

    Eh, you mean the countries you coerced into "freedom", then after they were dropped in the crapper then "swooped in like hero's to save them"? Dunno what I mean?

    Vietnam.

    Gulf War.

    Zimbabwe.

    Cuba.

    Heck, even South Africa has started the slow fall to chaos thanks to your meddling. Wonder why the world hates you? Think about this: why did you attack iraq? Don't bother with the canned bollox about "Weapons of Mass Destruction". There were none, and you knew it.

    >>all their shiny collective nukes.

    -------

    You mean like the ones USA threatens the rest of the world with if they don't fall in line? Whoa, talk about blinkers on.

    >>You see, it's very easy for the rest of the world to talk smack whilst standing behind your big brother. But what happens when he doesn't have your back anymore? You get your ass whooped by the big kid next door, that's what. Have fun with that.

    ____

    You put people obviously guilty of nothing in Gitmo - with no trial, explanation, basic human rights, or even so much as an apology when you realize they're innocent.. yet you've got my back? You gotta be joking. What kinda crazy planet do you come from where this is a benefit?

    Wake up buddy. The world dislikes the US for a reason - get your noses out of everyone's business, and leave the oil that doesn't belong to you alone.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Alien

    Saving Anyone?

    At some point the "investment" in security kills more people than the investment saves. Hundreds or thousands of person years of work to save a few planes and people on the ground is a relatively poor return, considering what could be bought with the resource. However, they are DIFFERENT and faceless people... and don't show up on a bureaucrat's performance report.

    Just think, we'd have really good cancer detection if the cancers had a 1% chance of blowing up at 10000M altitude.

  13. wim
    IT Angle

    obvious

    This is a plot designed by the IT community in USA.

    A great opportunity to get some work back into USA. Who will design all these databases and the checking programs ?

  14. Legless
    Pirate

    @ Nick H

    Yup - the world would certainly be in better shape if you took your toys home and didn't play with the rest of the kids. Let's see who you've attacked in the last 50 years..

    Korea and China 1950-53 (Korean War)

    Guatemala 1954

    Indonesia 1958

    Cuba 1959-1961

    Guatemala 1960

    Congo 1964

    Laos 1964-73

    Vietnam 1961-73

    Cambodia 1969-70

    Guatemala 1967-69

    Grenada 1983

    Lebanon 1983, 1984 (both Lebanese and Syrian targets)

    Libya 1986

    El Salvador 1980s

    Nicaragua 1980s

    Iran 1987

    Panama 1989

    Iraq 1991 (Persian Gulf War)

    Kuwait 1991

    Somalia 1993

    Bosnia 1994, 1995

    Sudan 1998

    Afghanistan 1998

    Yugoslavia 1999

    Yemen 2002

    Iraq 1991-2003 (US/UK on regular basis)

    Iraq 2003-05

    Afghanistan 2001-05

    Plus

    Iran, April 2003 -- hit by US missiles during bombing of Iraq, killing at least one persdon {2}

    Pakistan, 2002-03 -- bombed by US planes several times as part of combat against the Taliban and other opponents of the US occupation of Afghanistan {3}

    China, 1999 -- its heavily bombed embassy in Belgrade is legally Chinese territory, and it appears rather certain that the bombing was no accident (see chapter 25)

    France, 1986 -- After the French government refused the use of its air space to US warplanes headed for a bombing raid on Libya, the planes were forced to take another, longer route; when they reached Libya they bombed so close to the French embassy that the building was damaged and all communication links knocked out.{4}

    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, May 13, 1985 -- A bomb dropped by a police helicopter burned down an entire block, some 60 homes destroyed, 11 dead, including several small children. The police, the mayor's office, and the FBI were all involved in this effort to evict a black organization called MOVE from the house they lived in.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What a shame......

    that such a beautiful Country has such a DH for a president. I have travelled a lot around USA in the past but wouldnt go back there now as they have too many problems and too many ridiculous laws. Pity really as I would love to go back but too scary.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    It sure feels bad to be treated...

    the way Europe treats us...

    I am an Indian citizen, resident in India. I need to pre-apply for a transit visa if I take any flight that transits through any European airport, even if I am not going to clear immigration at the transit airport, my checked in bags have been through booked to the final destination, and my final destination is not in Europe. I need to apply for the visa at least a week before my travel dates. I would think this is far more onerous than the US requirements.

    Welcome to how the vast majority of the world is treated...

  17. Rob

    @ Anonymous Coward, India

    err... Isn't that just the same as the way India treats Europeans?

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    But Clinton...

    I have a parallel to the Republican American's catch all response to criticism of George Bush by Democrats for use when the USA is being criticised by the British:

    "But CCTV cameras..."

  19. Mr Larrington
    Coat

    @Greg

    "I take it you didn't do history in school, then?"

    I think he just watched "U-571" and extrapolated...

    In any case, when flying cars become reality, we can swamp their systems.

    Coat...door...flying taxi

  20. David Cantrell
    Thumb Up

    Big deal

    It's not like anyone with their head screwed on right would choose to go there anyway these days.

  21. Andrew Moore
    Flame

    No more...

    I used to visit the US regularly both for business and pleasure and I'm happy to state that I stopped going once Chimpy McFlightsuit was inaugarated. I'm kind of reminded of the Stasi and Checkpoint Charlie everytime I see the US checkins...

    And @ Ogberi

    The Second Amendment declares:

    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    As it could be argued that you no longer have a free State, isn't it time the gun nuts rose up against the government instead of arming schoolchildren???

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Rob...

    Not quite.

    If, for some strange reason, you travel from London to Singapore, with a change of planes in Delhi, you do not need to get an Indian transit visa, as long as you do not leave the airport.

    If a citizen of India (or a large number of Asian countries) flies from Delhi to Nairobi, with a change of planes in any of the EU airports, that person needs a transit visa even if he does not leave the airport.

  23. Nicole
    Happy

    Ignorance is Bliss

    I am simply going to continue to live in my own self perpetuated illusion that this is a bad dream, that what I just read is a giant lie, hoax, joke! Somehow this ignorance seems more blissful than that which inspires such dribble in the first place.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    You forgot...

    Chile, since the States essentially admited putting Pinochet into power, in place of the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED president, even though they deny that he killed anyone, and if he did, it was ok, because he was 'good for the country'. Makes me think of Holocaust denial in plenty of ways.

    There's also Venezuala, after Chavez was first ELECTED, the US funded a coup attempt in which Chavez was captured and held hostage in the parliament building. The people then rose up and surrounded the building before the military joined them and stormed the building. This is one of the reasons that Chavez is now so popular and a thorn in America's side.

    The thing is, I've been to the States, including Texas and Utah, and they're all very nice people. Granted I'm white, and I have no idea how they would treat me if I wasn't, but in general they were really friendly people. I do have a very big problem with the current administration, but that has nothing to do with about 50% of the people in the States, so I don't want to tar them all with the same brush. The Americans who we get the biggest stereotypes are the big, loud, messy tourist types, but at least they leave the country occasionally.

    My real problem is with the idiots who quite happily beat the drum for Mr. Bush and the 'War on Terror' without taking any notice of what's really happening in their 'free' country. Of course, even they can't be held fully accountable - have you ever actually had the stomach to watch a full episode of Fox News?

    While these measures don't really offer any threat to customers, they make it more difficult for airlines (I would imagine) which will end up dripping through to the customers, which will further affect the already damaged US tourist trade, which will further affect the economy which is already hurt by the war. Not too rosy.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    @Michael

    RE : Your AIDS money. Listen fuckwit, your AIDS money comes with a no abortion clause. You can damn well keep it. During Clinton this money at least was put to some use. Now its helping gay bashing religious types under Bush.

    Theres lots of things the world would like the US to sort out, its such a shame that it is not interested.

    Yes, please, stay in your own terrorist wonderland you have created, where people with machine guns ferry you from one check in to another.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    Can everyone just calm down here...

    This is a document from Homeland Security, having been produced in response to the question "how can we secure our borders?". They responded, and outlined HOW they would be able to verify the safety of passengers using it's airspace. The 72 hours is the time they NEED to verify the passenger data. The report also says:

    "TSA welcomes public comment on this timeframe, as well as on alternate timeframes, and will consider these comments in the development of the final rule. As always, comments that include an analytical justification are most useful."

    So comment, and tell them your concerns. And when corporate America get their teeth into it and have it changed or canceled, don't suddenly be on the other side just because you all love US bashing.

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The real problem here is..

    Americans are lazy fat cowards. They are more concerned with their new X-Box or PS/3. 15% of us are fighting like hell to save this country.. The rest are just fat lazy sheep being lead to the slaughter. Once the Government goes totally fascist, they will be crying 'help us!'. Bush and Company need to be removed NOW. If your not going to help then you ARE part of the problem. Stupid people still believe in America. Land of the cowards, Home of the Slaves. Stupid people shouldn't be allowed to breed.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Americans

    Gee, except for some "native" Americans who arrived 10,000 years earlier than the rest of us, American people are mainly immigrants from countries that are giving us so much s*it.

    So bashing the American people, is klnd of like hitting yourselves in the head, go ahead if it "floats your boat", but we are you.

    If you want to bash the US government, go ahead. Its the number 1 spectator sport amoung our citizens.

    World opinion of America? Who cares.

    And "people with machine guns"? Please! I flew through Heathrow in the 70's, when anyone Irish would make the machine gun totin' coppers piss themselves.

  29. kain preacher

    @By Anonymous Coward

    Wow so all the rabid American hating Europeans DONT READ THAT ITS REQUIRING THAT ALL AVAILBE DATA BE TRANSMITTED 72 hours advance NOT THAT THE FLIGHT HAS TO BE BOOKED 72 HOURS IN ADVANCE.

    No It just another chance to rip on the US. before you short your mouth off read.

    as Anonymous Coward has pointed out this is less restrictive than what Europe does to some countries. The moment the US does it, its omg the big bad evil US.

    To the guy thaty says the US dollar needs to collapse you have do idea what that will do to the rest of the world. Just more rabid American hating with out thought

  30. Legless
    Unhappy

    Can I Just Add...

    .

    That lastminute.com is now truly fucked?

    Cheers

    Legless

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    You're all right.....

    In fact... we should have all stayed British. Oh.. wait.. GB never has been in control of other countries... only the naughty US has ever done anything like that.

    And if GB ever had done such a thing... it all ran perfectly smoothly and was completely safe and fair to those indigenous peoples..... No crime or atrocities against any of those British subjects..... That whole bit about India was just staged to make the movie about Gandi 3 hours long.....

    Unless every citizen of every country completely divorces themselves from their own history... there's not a one on the planet that can point fingers at the US and say.. 'we've never done anything like that.'

    It's almost humorous, in a way... it's like people aren't willing to accept the fact that the US can make the same mistakes that pretty much every other country in the world has made at one time or other.

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    @ Americans

    As a friend of mine described an encounter in a New York bar a few weeks..

    'Gee don't you miss the old country? from a septic who was about five generations removed from Ireland.

    My friend replied: " No, I'm english born and bred' His mother is 100 per cent Irish.

    Americans are basically the dross of Europe, cast out from country with no history oftheir own which is why they adopt European roots, and make up for their groos infieriority complex by haveing to have everythig bigger and better.. my dicks bigger than yours.

    As they are very fond of saying, we've lost a war which is why Vietrnam is alwsy described as a conflict.

    Regarding airspace.. They can keep it.. just stay out of mine!!!

  33. Chris
    Flame

    As a representitive of the good ol' US of A.....

    I'd like to piss off a good portion of my countrymen (including wifey).

    On September 11th, 2001 2,726 people died in the World Trade Center according to the center for disease control. 161,269 people died from injuries in 2002. 696,947 people died from heart disease. The 11th of September was a tragic incident, but just a tragic incident. I do not mean to take anything away from people who had loved ones die in the attack, but their deaths should not count more than the man who was murdered innocently as he worked a convience store, the ex-wife who was shot down by an estranged husband, or any other senseless act of violence. The deaths of the World Trade Center were a pinprick of tragedy and should be treated as such.

    But in the United States of America, it's not so simple. We've always had a fuck with us, we'll kick your ass sort of attitude. It's instilled in us from being shit on over three hundred years ago and evidence of this attitude is even visable in our Constitution. It's why we love Israel. It's how we are. Sometimes this can lead to good things - Liberation of Europe post Pearl Harbor. Sometimes this can lead to bad things - Unending wars in the Middle East. It is what it is, and it will take hundreds more years before we lighten up/smarten up.

    Unfortunatly this mindfuck Dirty Harry attitude leads us to run around like Chicken Little yelling "The sky is falling! Don't you see it! The sky is falling! Terrorists!" What we don't get is that, we will never have everyone love us. We had the opportunity to come close post September 11th, but we had to go fuck that up. We had condolances from anti-American governments who had recently blasted us and an opportunity to form a true cooperation of nations. But we fucked it up. Instead of being open, welcoming collaboration, embracing other ideas, etc we decided to lock ourselves up in our fences for protection. And we keep upgrading the fences. Barbed wire, electrified, etc. We have literal physical fences on the Mexican border.

    But in the most ironic part of the whole story, the gates to keep out the terrorists were already in place on September 11th. Box cutters were not allowed on planes, and all passengers were screened with metal detectors before boarding. But rather than patching the hole in the pre-existing proverbial fence and holding the fuckheads who missed the box cutters responsible, we divert the attention. We had measures in place that should have prevented the attacks, and we should go back to enforcing these measures. Nothing more, nothing less. That's it, problem solved. No playing shoot 'em up in foreign countries, no secret police, no killing our tourism industry. Really - other than the people the United States is a great place to visit.

    I've heard all sorts of bullshit about air screeners not doing their job because they were paid the minimum wage. Just because a person is responsible for safety does not mean that we pay them huge sums of money. It doesn't work like that. It's skills required to perform job -> money paid. It might suck, but we don't pay based on societal value. And we never will.

    So in my proposed solution (el Reg can accept the Peace Prize on my behalf) my country needs to go back to the way things were, and make sure people responsible for others' saftey correctly perform their occupational duties.

    And to people on the other side of the pond who would like us to lighten up - The best way to affect progress is not to call us morons. It's hard to swallow. We know that, but being called an idiot never educates. (For a real world example, see how well we cultivated democracy in Iraq by telling people "this is the way it is.") And I do believe you shot a man to death who was going for his cell phone in the tunnel. And the "Sky is falling!" over the bus bombings.

    What we need from you are more good Dr. Who episodes. Our scifi and Kevin Sorbo suck a big one. And maybe some pub food. Oh and your Royal Family. We need that more than you do. And maybe Ricky Gervais.

    Seriously - let it go. Laugh at each other. Work together. Work with our mental problems, we'll work with yours and then we'll all meet in Sealand for the tele-dildonics chainsaw tonguelashing smutfest. We'll even bring some shitty Budweiser and Arnie in T2 garb.

  34. kain preacher

    Lost vietnam ??

    PIck up a book it was the Vietnamese's that lost Vietnam.. US left Vietnam after there was a peace treaty. it was only after control was handed over that Vietnam was lost.

  35. Rob
    Stop

    @ Anonymous Coward and Anonymous Coward

    [For clarity, the two most recent vendors of bigoted anti American shite.]

    That's my wife you're talking about. Cunts!

    In fairness, we Brits aren't exactly lilly white, and the US has it's share of arseholes too. But I'd still take England or the US over Tehran or Moscow. So how about we all calm down a bit?

  36. Rob
    Flame

    and just to prove that I'm not all about being pro-yank...

    Chris - you're one retarded fuck, aren't you? Just to pick one example from your feed of shite, you say:

    "But in the most ironic part of the whole story, the gates to keep out the terrorists were already in place on September 11th. Box cutters were not allowed on planes, and all passengers were screened with metal detectors before boarding. But rather than patching the hole in the pre-existing proverbial fence and holding the fuckheads who missed the box cutters responsible, we divert the attention. We had measures in place that should have prevented the attacks, and we should go back to enforcing these measures."

    How old were you in 2001? 5 years old? Maybe 10? Certainly not of an age to ever have flown alone, with responsibility for packing your own shit.

    Let me make this simple for you - box cutters were not prohibited items as at 11 Sept 2001. That's how the psycho fucks got them on the aeroplanes. Which fact pretty much demonstrates that your entire argument is turd.

    And, by the way, I'm given to understand that Kevin Sorbo's good friend Chuck Norris is not to happy about you slagging off his mate's excellent SF work.

  37. Mr Larrington
    Flame

    @Chris

    Chris, you are welcome to Ricky Gervais. Just so long as you don't re-export the traagivcally unfunny believes-his-own-publicity ********** back here.

    I'm going to get lynched for this, aren't I...

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    I wonder...

    The US Constitution guarantees the right to travel to those (US citizens) who wish to visit their government to "redress grievances". In the case of certain fast tracked legislation, 72 hours is much too long a time to have to wait to address problems to a Senator or Congressman. I wonder if the TSA is planning on granting special exceptions to those who wish to exercise their Constitutionally guaranteed rights or if they plan on ignoring that section of the Constitution also?

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