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back to article Huawei Mate 20 Pro: If you can stomach the nagware and price, it may be Droid of the Year

When, four years ago, I predicted Huawei was coming to eat Apple and Samsung's lunch, derision swiftly followed. Either it couldn't, or it would take a very long time. For years, Japanese and Korean cars were nasty little tin cans, jokes on wheels, remember? But smartphones aren't cars. The Chinese production miracle, and …

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    1. big_D Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      My last two phones haven't had a headphone jack and I can't say I've missed it. I use a USB-C to headphone adapter and a good pair of Sony in-ears. I also have BT sport headphones for training and a set of noise cancelling Sony BT cans for when I am on the train / in a bus.

      I thought that I would miss the headphone jack and the typical "what do I do when I need to charge and want to listen to music?" But for the half an hour every 2 days to get a 60% - 70% charge, or an hour for a full charge, I've never encountered the problem - and I probably listen to around 4 hours of audio a day.

      3 7 Reply
    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Nobody cares about headphone jacks and card slots, A cheap inline USB-C DAB not only comes in the box, it sounds better than the SoC cheapo bundled option, and is up-gradable.

      2 11 Reply
      1. Jamie Jones Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        "Nobody cares about headphone jacks and card slots, A cheap inline USB-C DAB not only comes in the box, it sounds better than the SoC cheapo bundled option, and is up-gradable."

        No card slot. No sale. Period.... Guess that makes me "nobody" :-(

        4 1 Reply
        1. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          There is a storage card slot but 1) you can only use 1 sim rather than 2 if you use it.

          2) it is a smaller than sd format so will have to wait to see prices.

          It does have 128GB BTW.

          1 1 Reply
          1. big_D Silver badge
            Reply Icon

            @AC yes, 128GB should be more than enough for most people (yes, not everyone).

            I have a 128GB P20 and a 128GB Mate 10 Pro (business and private). I have 115GB free on the P20 and 90GB free on the Mate. My wife has a 32GB Hauwei P-Smart and she still has over half of the storage free.

            Some people "must" have everything available all the time, but for most people it is a non-issue.

            My ex-boss on the other hand is a prime example of a data horder. He had an iPhone with his Exchange account on it, he replaced his BMW 5 series with a VW Touareg. It could "only" show him 500 contacts. He had over 2,500 and "all" of them had to be available. He sent the car back 3 times to get the "problem" sorted, I had to find a solution (there was none, the 2017 model did solve the problem, but he had a 2016 model). In the end, he gave back the keys and got a Mercedes GLE Coupe... That was much easier than sorting out which contacts were actually still current. :-S

            0 0 Reply
          2. Jamie Jones Silver badge
            Reply Icon

            Hi anon. My reply was not related the the Huawei phone, but to the previous comment "nobody wants a sd-card slot"

            0 0 Reply
    3. Lee D Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      SD Card and battery, personally.

      The headphone not being there is annoying, but the other two you KNOW are going to fail or fill up and you'll want to replace at some point.

      2 0 Reply
      1. FractalFragger2018
        Reply Icon

        ???

        Most handsets are going unibody nowadays so battery replacement is becoming a thing of the past. with regards to SD cards, the handset has 128GB on it and being android provides google drive as cloud storage or even Huawei's version of icloud at the same pricing, which i think is very good value. I have also seen NM cards on ebay, yes they are expensive but from what i have read they will be faster and more reliable than microSD that i find fails an awful lot.

        0 1 Reply
  2. 0laf
    Childcatcher

    P20 Pro £100 less?

    If you only pay £100 less for a P20 Pro you're not trying for a deal. I picked one up for just over £500 a couple of weeks ago. I expect you'll get similar or better deals come Black Friday.

    For £300 or £400 less the P20p seems a better option for now.

    0 0 Reply
    1. big_D Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: P20 Pro £100 less?

      He was comparing launch prices, but yes, you are correct.

      With Hauwei phones (and Samsung), it pays to wait a couple of months after launch, before buying.

      0 0 Reply
  3. Chz

    Getting there - Samsung had better watch out

    So they're where Samsung was a few years ago - fantastic hardware, meh software. The software side has been a long, slow battle for Samsung, so it's going to be interesting to see how Huawei gets on.

    A few comments on the company's efforts, as I own an Honor 8:

    Patches have been... patchy. They've put out what is probably their final Oreo update, but it is more than 2 years after the phone's release. So +1 there. -1 for how long Oreo took in the first place (I think it was August it was released), but that's been common from most manufacturers for phones that launched on Marshmallow. I can see their beta channel, and they've consistently produced monthly patch updates. But as to who they're releasing these to, it's a total mystery. You'll get an OTA update every 4-5 months.

    The hardware is fairly bulletproof. The H8 is a double-glass phone and I've dropped mine repeatedly (partly because the back surface is some sort of zero-friction prototype) and banged it up but good. No cracks. Performance is much the same as on Day One. Some of that is specific to my H8, but it does sum up Huawei hardware in general.

    The software. Step one is to turn off the power-saving option for everything and only re-enable it for apps that you know are a bit thuggish in the background. Step two is to install launcher of your choice. Neither is difficult, and it makes life a lot easier on you. Once you've done that, there are some Huawei quirks (control panel especially, as noted) but it's over all quite usable and if you use the Google Launcher, you'd think it was a fairly stock Android 95% of the time.

    As someone's already said, if you want a Kirin 980 for a lot less, just wait for the Honor (Magic 2, I think?) launch. Though the camera will certainly not be quite as nice.

    2 0 Reply
  4. verno

    Have they Fixed Bluetooth?

    Have they sorted their implementation of the bluetooth stack that stops Huawei phones working reliably with Fitbit devices?

    Might not be a big thing for everyt=one but It's really annoying if you want to dig into your fitbit stats and your phone is your main device...

    See this thread:

    https://community.fitbit.com/t5/Android-App/Huawei-Sync-issues-the-truth/td-p/2515380

    Matt

    0 0 Reply
  5. Niall Mac Caughey

    Speaker in the USB port - definitely worse for that!

    My Mate Pro arrived on Friday. I'm defnitely not an early adopter, I'm a strict second-hand car man (let some other generous soul pay for the depreciation), but the battery in my trusty HTC One really has given up and I opted for the Huawei at €519 delivered, including the GT Smartwatch and a wireless charger.

    It's also costing me an extra €15 x 24 over my existing SIM-only outlay, but I cancelled something else to cover this, so it's not too painful.

    Inital impressions are OK. It basically does what it says on the tin and battery life seems promising. Screen is good and the fingerprint sensor works well. The facial scanner seemed to have issues with my outrageously unkempt beard, so I had to give up on that. Definitely an infuriating amount of click-throughs required, but I haven't seen any in the last 24 hours, so we might be over the worst of them.

    The transfer utility that came with it sort of worked. It took a bit of fiddling and the HTC said that all transfers were successful , but the Huawei disagreed. Got there in the end.

    As far as the speaker is concerned, it's loud for ringing and notifications but, unlike the HTC, if I set it to speaker mode during a call and put it on the table, the volume is definitely too low to hear the caller clearly.

    The GT-1FO Smartwatch works OK, but it certainly isn't something I would pay for. The emphasis is very strongly on activity to the point that the App for setting up the watch is called Health. It does seem to track heartbeat and activity quite well and it has a lot of workout options. Battery life is impressive so far, although I haven't worked it hard and it is waterproof, so all good there. My main gripe is with the choice of faces which is very limited. I find the standard faces overly fussy and the GT doesn't use the normal Android watch OS, so there doesn't seem to be a way of downloading extra faces.

    1 0 Reply
  6. Wade Burchette

    The notch

    It is awful, just awful.

    Also, no separate headphone jack, then no thank you.

    5 2 Reply
    1. 0laf
      Reply Icon
      Gimp

      Re: The notch

      I honestly thought I'd hate it (P20pro), and I still think it's ugly but really within a few hours I hardly noticed it. A few days more and I really don't notice it at all now.

      So yeah it's an ugly artifact of phones for now but shouldn't be a deciding factor for any of them.

      Phone jack, yeah I'll give you that I do miss it. Huawei supply an adapter but it's stil a PITA for a car so you can't connect the phone to power and the aux at the same time. And that car doesn't do bluetooth

      1 0 Reply
      1. Dave 126 Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: The notch

        Crazy thing is, if you put a tempered glass screen protector on a notch-less Samsung phone it makes it look notched. The screen protector has a notch cut out for the Samsung's earpiece and camera.

        1 1 Reply
    2. LochNessMonster
      Reply Icon

      Re: The notch

      "It is awful, just awful."

      Then thank Huawei you can disable it. [i]Settings/Display/Notch[/i] is your friend. Feature also available in the P20 family.

      0 0 Reply
  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Apple didn't invent FaceID...

    "Apple likely made two assumptions with FaceID. It must have thought that with FaceID's absurd overkill of sensors (IR camera, proximity sensor, flood illuminator, and dot projector), Apple would have an unassailable lead for a few years."

    Sony were showing the same concepts at least 5 months before Apple launch using an Android based Xperia

    https://www.sony-depthsensing.com/NewsEvents/Articleview/ArticleId/520/NEWS-SoftKinetic-Introduces-Smallest-3D-DepthSense-Camera-Available-for-Mobile-Platforms

    https://androidcommunity.com/sony-to-demo-a-3d-facial-biometric-sensor-on-an-xperia-phone-20170628/

    2 1 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Apple didn't invent FaceID...

      Apple could obviously have had concept devices out more than 5 months before they launch, they don't market that way. When Apple is first to market, with something people will say "well so-and-so showed a concept or had a patent about it first". When Apple is second to market, as with the notch, people will say they "copied" it - as if Apple could have copied Essential's notch when it came out only a few month before Apple and there were rumors Apple would have a display notch for over a year before the iPhone X actually launched.

      There are only so many ways to solve problems like "how the phone owner can authorize himself to the phone" and "maximizing screen area when you need to have some stuff on the front face of the phone" so obviously the same solutions will be arrived at. Doesn't require anyone copying, and coming up with a truly unique solution to any of those problems is pretty unlikely.

      I mean everyone knows that something better than the notch would be holes in the display where sensors go, and even better than that would be sensors that can 'see' through the display. Those will come, someone will be first to market, but it is virtually certain that Apple, Samsung, Huawei and others are all working towards that improvement so notches and top bezels go away.

      2 3 Reply
  8. The Original Steve

    Simplification

    I admit it, after 20 years in IT I'm now stumped. Maybe I just can't be arsed to spend hours researching any longer, but I've just entirely lost track with phones.

    I love my S8 hardware, but the software is rather flaky, requiring a reboot once a week. But I can't stand Apple so soldiering on with Android is the best I can do.

    More than happy to go with a Chinese brand like Huawei etc. I just need the ranges explained to me!

    A 5" - 6" screen, QI charging, reasonable camera, waterproof, SD Card slot, 3.5mm headphone jack, USB-C fast charging, battery that can last a day and a decent screen. Fingerprint unlock under the glass is a nice to have, but can live with a normal fingerprint reader if necessary. Not a fan of the notch.

    Budget is around £700 max, would prefer the £400 - £500 "mid range" if possible. (My last car cost me under a grand which lasted 9 months with no other maintenance costs. If you think I'm paying £1000 for a phone you can think again!)

    Any suggestions from my peers?

    1 0 Reply
    1. Andrew Mayo
      Reply Icon

      Re: Simplification

      Note 8 Sim Free at £508 from Amazon ?

      https://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Galaxy-Note-SM-N950F-Smartphone-Black/dp/B0756FFZTZ

      Think that ticks all your boxes. Mine's been dead reliable since I got it at launch date - no reboots required.

      No notch, fingerprint reader is on the back admittedly but - you know what? - actually that turns out to be a fairly sensible place for it with the LED cover, since you open the cover and use your right hand index finger to activate the sensor. And the LED cover is now only £20 and a marvel of clever technology, with actual LEDs embedded in the front cover to quickly show you notifications, the time and even response to a touch swipe to answer calls or shut off the alarm. This really is a terrific phone for the new price, given the Note 9 is now out (and hardly a significant upgrade).

      3 0 Reply
      1. The Original Steve
        Reply Icon

        Re: Simplification

        Thanks Andrew.

        I have the LED cover on my S8 and love it. Although this is the second one I brought after the first just packed in working after 3 months (not uncommon so I've been told).

        Will have a look at the Note 8. I forgot to mention that supporting Project Treble would be a big bonus too, just so I can ensure I don't get left behind should the hardware somehow last me more than a year or two!

        Thanks again

        0 0 Reply
        1. Dave 126 Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          Re: Simplification

          Project Treble is the main difference between the Galaxy and Note 8s and the version 9s, other than price. But yeah, it seems to be only Samsung who tick all the boxes these days, SD card, headphone socket, wireless charging, waterproofing, HDR certification, AR Core support, no notch, etc

          Sorry to hear your Galaxy 8 is misbehaving, mine (Exonys version) has been solid. Maybe you have an intermittent hardware fault, or some app is upsetting it?

          0 0 Reply
        2. Andrew Mayo
          Reply Icon

          Re: Simplification

          Yeah, there's a ribbon cable which connects a very large NFC scanning coil in the back of the case to the front, that powers the LEDs and it is prone to breakage. My first case lasted about a year. The replacement I've stopped bending the front cover right round to the back and just opening it out flat, to see if it lasts longer. But at £20 a pop that's not such a big issue now. When my first case failed I thought about getting a standard case but the LEDs were so useful I decided to replace it. Let's see how it goes....

          0 0 Reply
    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Simplification

      A £400 Pixel2 (or XL if you like supidly big phones), will still destroy an iphoneXS in pretty much every area, including the camera. Even iPhone fanboys at the verge can't deny it and maintain credibility.

      https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/19/17878018/iphone-xs-x-pixel-2-galaxy-s9-camera-comparison

      Absolutely no bloat, just Google Android. Updates every month for 3+ years (just over 2 now). Why waste an extra £400? That's £400 to spend in 2020 on a Pixel 4...

      0 0 Reply
  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Huawei problems.

    Superb hardware, but fail on 3 points:

    1/ Abysmal power management that breaks so many apps.

    2/ UI that is desperately trying to copy Apple, when stock Android is so much better.

    3/ They removed the ability to unlock the bootloader, mean you can't load a stock Android GSI (a binary bootable stock Android image, that every Treble certified device must be able to boot)

    https://www.xda-developers.com/google-test-android-q-project-treble-gsi/

    3 2 Reply
    1. IsJustabloke
      Reply Icon
      FAIL

      Re: Huawei problems.

      1) I don't consider 2 days between charges in anyway "absymal" and no app on my phone (p20 pro) has been broken by "power management"... I'd look to your apps if I were you.

      2) The UI is a bit clunky but can be changed. I have a few icons and then a bunch of icons in folders *exactly* like I had on my Xperia Z1 - As well as an alphabetized list on a single screen - so I think you're talking more bollocks

      3) The majority of people don't give a flying hairy monkey fart about this.

      have a nice day!

      4 3 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Huawei problems.

        Mine has been running since 7am and is still on 96% charge. Nothing has broken that I can tell

        Cloning Apple is actually quite handy when you're coming form an Apple to Huawei.

        Admittedly most of the rest of the OS settings are a frickin mess.

        2 0 Reply
      2. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Huawei problems.

        The broken apps are very high profile apps, Huawei decided to go their own way with power management, basically shutting down background services in a very dumb way, just to get headline grabbing battery stats

        Don't expect apps like Strava, Android Auto and anything else that relies on background long running services to work on a Huawei device.

        0 0 Reply
  10. ChrisElvidge

    Can anyone tell me the advantage of face/print unlock?

    If I'm asleep can anyone just show the phone my face and/or fingerprint to unlock it?

    At least with a secret PIN/password they'll need to wake me up to unlock it.

    1 0 Reply
    1. cambsukguy
      Reply Icon

      Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of face/print unlock?

      My phone uses the Iris's so the eyes would have to be opened at least.

      I think fingerprint scanners must be the easiest to use for sleep access, gently pressing the phone against the fingertip sounds simple indeed.

      0 0 Reply
      1. doublelayer Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of face/print unlock?

        I'd imagine that physically picking up someone's hand to get the fingerprint would wake them up. If face unlock works when their eyes are closed, however, that would probably be easy to do without waking them up. When security is included, a PIN is clearly the most secure option.

        0 0 Reply
        1. Lee D Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of face/print unlock?

          Having something in your brain (currently) leaves no physical impression or trace that can be detected or copied.

          Having something on your body doesn't. It may be "complex" to copy, but it's there. And can be fooled by things like Gummi Bears or just a high-quality print-out.

          Nobody has yet managed to pluck a thought from someone's head (though Derren Brown can show you quite a few tricks), so that's the ONLY way to be secure at the moment.

          Anything else is security snakeoil. In the same way that your briefcase doesn't need to withstand a bunch of safe-crackers (given 5 minutes, a fast hand, and the opportunity and I'll open any 6-digit briefcase combination lock for you), some people are happy with "no security but a slight inconvenience".

          If you care about security, a PIN / passphrase is the only way to go.

          1 0 Reply
          1. fandom
            Reply Icon

            Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of face/print unlock?

            "Nobody has yet managed to pluck a thought from someone's head "

            Of course they have, it's a method called "torture".

            Disgusting, maybe, but it works pretty well.

            1 0 Reply
            1. Anonymous Coward
              Reply Icon
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of face/print unlock?

              Like XKCD says, the $5 hammer is the best device to unlock any phone. Almost no one would allow their hands and kneecaps to be smashed by a hammer rather than unlock their phone, so this works regardless of the security it is using. A determined criminal will get in your phone, there's no way to prevent it short of destroying your phone - though if they were willing to take a hammer to you to unlock it they might be unhappy if you destroyed it so I wouldn't recommend it.

              The police may not resort to hammer based measures where we live, but they do some places. In more "civilized" places like the UK they can force you to reveal a password so the type of security makes no difference, you'll be in jail anyway just without broken hands. In the US they can't make you reveal a password, but they can make you perform a biometric unlock. So hit the volume/power buttons at the same time to disable Face ID / Touch ID when the cops are knocking loudly on your door, and hope they don't have any other evidence on you!

              2 0 Reply
              1. Dave 126 Silver badge
                Reply Icon

                Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of face/print unlock?

                > Nobody has yet managed to pluck a thought from someone's head (though Derren Brown can show you quite a few tricks), so that's the ONLY way to be secure at the moment.

                Actually Lee, researchers have had success with determining someone's unlock code from videoing their hand movements from across a room. Passcodes don't only live in people's heads, at some point they have to enter them into their phone.

                Now, where passcode are more secure is in their legal status. Passcode don't have to be surrendered in many jurisdictions , jurisdictions where a cop is allowed to hold your phone against your finger.

                For this reason, tapping the power button of an iPhone five times disables biometric entry and enforces a passcode. A passcode is also required if the phone has not been unlocked for a few hours.

                2 0 Reply
                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Reply Icon
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of face/print unlock?

                  The 'tap power button 5 times' thing was replaced by holding down the volume down & power button for about a half second (as with shutting down the phone)

                  Dunno why people keep talking about passCODES. No one claiming to care about security should be using them unless their phone does not support a proper password! You can have a more complex password if you have some sort of biometric unlock that means you won't have to enter your password very often - having FaceID means I NEVER have to type my complex password in public. Thus I don't have to worry about a person or CCTV camera over my shoulder seeing me type it in.

                  People who complain about the insecurity of biometric logins but use a simple passcode they are constantly entering in public are worrying about the wrong things on the security front. I could MUCH more easily watch you type in a 4 digit passcode once or twice and get into your phone than go through the far more involved steps required to fool either a fingerprint or 3D facial recognition scanner.

                  0 0 Reply
                  1. Dave 126 Silver badge
                    Reply Icon

                    Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of face/print unlock?

                    Passcode can mean a string of characters, surely? I didn't say Pass number or PIN.

                    0 0 Reply
          2. Anonymous Coward
            Reply Icon
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of face/print unlock?

            "If you care about security, a PIN / passphrase is the only way to go."

            I knew the pin or password to a number of the phones of my colleagues and my son knows our pins to phones, TV players, vox etc despite trying to be really careful. Its very hard to keep a phone code secret as you have to enter it so often.

            A biometric gives me all the security *I* need as noone I know will get past it.

            .

            0 0 Reply
    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of face/print unlock?

      The police or muggers can point the phone at your face to unlock it, they don't need you to reveal codes or patterns

      0 0 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of face/print unlock?

        That assumes you haven't locked out the biometric before handing the phone to the police or mugger. Which is pretty easy to do given that the two buttons required on the iPhone are on opposite sides so you can squeeze them as you pull it out of your pocket to hand it over.

        Plus, by default Face ID requires "attention" - that is, your eyes have to be open. The police can point your phone at your face, but they can't order you to open your eyes. It only takes a few failures when they try it and you shut your eyes before it locks out.

        0 0 Reply
  11. IsJustabloke
    Meh

    Not expandable memroy

    The P20 Pro doesn't have expandable memory, 128gig on board and that's your lot. I don't really consider the ability to access a USB stick as "expandable memory" in the same sense that sticking a card in the phone is.

    I really don't understand why people get so upset about lack of a headphone port. There's an adapter in the box and it works very well; recharging isn't an issue because the bloody thing barely seems to use any power

    0 4 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Not expandable memroy

      You can expand it, it's just you lose the second sim card slot and the cards are not yet widely available.

      1 0 Reply
      1. doublelayer Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: Not expandable memroy

        They should stop making up new card types. Is this card any better than a micro SD card? Even if it is slightly smaller, the lack of any available rather nullifies that benefit. In addition, the phone has enough space for a micro SD card; it's not that big a difference in size. We already tried the lots of different incompatible portable storage type system. We didn't like it.

        0 0 Reply
  12. jason 7

    Got the Mate 10 Pro two weeks ago...

    ...for £350!

    Very impressed and love the monochrome sensor.

    0 0 Reply
  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's called depth of field...

    ....maybe when reviewing the photographic capabilities of a device it would help if you understood some of the fundamentals of photography.

    4 0 Reply
  14. AstroCam

    Really?

    Send all your details to China via this phone? No thanks.

    1 0 Reply
  15. Nathan 13

    £899!!

    When you can get a good quality android (that will in reality be no worse to use than the Mate20 Pro for 99% of users) for under £150, why would anyone pay 5x that?

    And in 12-18 months do it all over again, and again ...

    0 0 Reply
  16. DrXym

    I don't know why people buy these

    The hardware is nice but the software is superficially attractive but has *horrible* usability. As for the lack of a headphone jack, they should hang their heads in shame.

    0 0 Reply
  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I was weighing up getting this or a 6T... and honestly I'd rather have £300 of weed than extra phone I don't need, so I got the 6T and I'm so happy I did! The back of the 6T is flawless and on-the-cusp-of-transluscency that makes it look like sea glass rubbed supernaturally smooth and I love rubbing it <3

    1 0 Reply

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