Re: But how do they spread fires?
Very, very carefully so as not to get caught.
Already replete with sharks, crocodiles, snakes and poisonous jellyfish galore, Australia may also be home to arsonist birds that spread fire so they can feed on animals as they flee. The belief that birds like the Whistling Kite, Black Kite and Brown Falcon spread grass fires goes back so far that it's commemorated in …
@Tom Paine
"The Red Kites currently recolonization the UK have 5-6' wingspans (hard to appreciate when you see them at a distance) so I imagine that theoretically, yes they could.
They do look fabulous, I must say.
Dunno about REcolonization - we've never totally lost them round here, but numbers have been growing. And they are indeed fabulous - I often see them from my office window, gliding over the fields next door, looking for something small and furry that is about to make its last squeek.
Conspiracy theory time:
The Russians (or Chinese or Norks or Democrats) have introduced a few Ozzie kites into California, where they have taught the skill of burning-branch-dropping to the local native Bald Eagles, indoctrinating them in their evil ideology at the same time, so that the once proud symbol of USia has now been polluted by the taint of commieness (and probably turned them all gay at the same time - it's the kind of thing those billionaire ruskie commies would do)
"The Russians (or Chinese or Norks or Democrats) have introduced a few Ozzie kites into California, where they have taught the skill of burning-branch-dropping to the local native Bald Eagles,"
The Bald Eagle is a pure capitalist. So the Republicans have taught it to start fires and burn out the poor folk, opening up the land oil drilling.
Even a common UK rook or magpie could spread fires, except they are busy eating road kill.
Awesome seeing a magpie dive bomb an adult bluetit on the feeder and fly off with it.
Raptors have a spread finger effect on end of wings. Look at a Raven, Magpie, Rook, Hoodie/carrion crow flying. They are mini-raptors.
The small birds are more freaked out by magpies than Rooks. They all vanish from garden if a magpie alights on the shed. Mostly they ignore rooks, though ours have learned how to use the peanut feeder and then others leave. I think they only bother with grain in summer or peanuts in feeder in winter when they run out of insects and roadkill.
Dear Mr. S., the little woodbird makes his/her performance in Richard Wagner's opera Siegfried, not in Die Walküre.
There are both mistakes made on correlation and causation in both directions. Direct observation is on that is needed.
However, many if not all animals are adaptive and will learn. The error is in thinking they will not learn.
If they can pick up burning/smouldering twigs they will. They will then try many different things with them, perhaps even building their nests in error. Using them to hunt would be an additional step in the learning behaviour, but not an impossibility (see how many insects and crustaceans even use materials as lures/decoration to their habitat/body/hunting).
Of course and I get that, I just think that a bird picking up something either on fire or smouldering is too great a leap because the first time it gets it wrong and hurts itself it won't keep trying and how many times would it need to try for it to stick. There is also the rational behind it, I think it's a great leap for a bird to think "there's a fire I go hunt" to "there's a fire I move it very carefully so I can hunt more". I'm not saying it's impossible and time will tell with more study.
It's not impossible by a long stretch. Some birds are recorded and judged as having mental capacities similar to a 6-7 year old human child. If you can't remember what you did at such an age, any parent of such a child will be able to tell you the exact amount of trouble and deviousness that such a child can get up to.
For example, many such birds are capable of context based communication, social restraint and manipulation and a sense of humour. The more adaptable the birds species is the more they are likely to have a high intelligence.
"I just think that a bird picking up something either on fire or smouldering is too great a leap because the first time it gets it wrong and hurts itself it won't keep trying"
Which is why no animal ever learned to use fire, and those poor hairless apes are left shivering in the cold every winter.
there is clearly a problem with the way we are taught to view the world and collectively we are just starting to realise that we need to re evaluate what we have been taught rather than just accepting it.
We have for too long dismissed anecdotal information in favour of scientific hearsay & interpretation driven by people with undisclosed agendas.
the NHS springs to mind
"We have for too long dismissed anecdotal information in favour of scientific hearsay & interpretation driven by people with undisclosed agendas."May be true in some fields. When I was involved in agricultural research, a fellow told me that every research project he had been involved with started out as an anecdote from a farmer.
"Why do we have such difficulty in giving other living things credibility for an iota of intelligence?"
Good question! There are a few influences at work here. The greatest blame belongs to Religion, which usually states that we are divine creations in the image of the gods, and animals are dumb vermin-ridden beasts. It's very important for religions to claim humans are separate and special, so there's a default setting of "animals are dumb automatons, we're smart thinking beings not like them".
I lay a fair bit of blame on psychology, ethology and such for perpetuating this attitude. They reflexively dismiss as "anthropomorphizing" any suggestion that an animal might be doing anything we do, or worse, for the same reasons. When it was assumed that humans are a Special Creation that kinda made sense, but not since we know that we're all related.
The newness of Science plays a part as well. When we started looking for natural explanations for the universe (and us), there was a tendency to treat any discovery as the Complete Answer. We're finding out now that most things are far more complex than that first answer we found. That's OK, it's the scientific method at work, moving ever closer to the final truth.
I don't make any distinction between genus Homo and our fellow critters. We're all related from the same origins, and we for sure can share behaviors and motivations. Throw out the preconceptions and you'll see all kinds of animals doing amazing things that nobody much notices or gives them credit for.
I recall a story doing the rounds about birds learning to open milk bottles- in the days of glass milk bottles delivered to your doorstep.
Now we have flying raptors ( living dinosaurs...) mastering fire, and on our warming planet, probably gearing up to increase in size by an order of magnitude - large enough to make the flying lasershark nightmare an inevitable reality....
Because it is too easy to attribute intelligence where there is none. People have been fooled by behaviour that was highly complex but instinctive. People have even been fooled by "Eliza"-style programs, where we know exactly how unintelligent they are. People will even suppose there is intelligence and personality behind natural phenomena like lightning strikes. Scientists need to be careful to avoid such projection.
come come now, no one has died from a spider bite for about 50 years. Now the snakes well thats different, but there mostly out in the west or the bush. And the sharks, well they mainly take surfers. And the jellyfish are mainly in the north, same with the crocs. And well the drop bears can be a problem in the south east... hmmm... We do have some really nice hotels you can stay in... there's usually nothing too dangerous in those. Well mostly...
The most dangerous animals in Australia: include cows, horses, kangaroos, wasps & bees, and dogs. Right up the top. The cows and horses are imports and with kangaroos are mostly dangerous because you hit them when you are driving if they escape onto the roads (although horse-riding is a very dangerous sport), while the wasps & bees are European imports as our local wasps and bees don't sting. The dogs are pets, with the most dangerous of them being the pit bull terrier, an English breed. It is far more scary to go to England with all those dogs, bees and wasps (not to mention scary creatures like cows and horses) than Australia. Snakes are very shy and do not stay in hotel rooms and hang around city streets--they prefer long grass and hollow logs and will run away from an approaching human if they can, crocodiles only live in the top tenth of the continent and so you just be careful when going to croc infested areas, sharks prefer to keep away from shallow waters and NEVER walk down city streets or even in the in the bush for that matter. Death by spider bites is extremely rare and drop bears do not exist--Aussies just are amused about tourists terrors of Australian animals so they make up fantasy ones to scare tourists.
"The most dangerous animals in Australia: include cows, horses, kangaroos, wasps & bees, and dogs."The most dangerous animals in Australia are humans. Death by suicide is more common than dying caused by other humans' actions, so I respectfully suggest avoiding yourself is safest.