back to article Samsung's Galaxy Note 8 is hot, but not much more than the S8+

Samsung's Galaxy Note 8 is everything you'd expect in a premium handset, but the stylus doesn't appear to add huge value. The Register was today offered the chance to get hands-on with the new phablet at its formal Australian launch. My immediate impression was that there's now very little distinction between a Phablet and a …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The single failure with all "Flagship" these phones..

    Is the battery..

    90% of the "wow" features they come with such as the touch features, pen etc, are just gimics and have very little use past the first week, when you'll default back to using all the same software and features you used on your past 10 handsets!

    Why would I pay a premium for this? when I can get a £200 phone with a 5000Mah battery that last 2 days, has 99% of the most useful feature the "Flagship" phones offer, but lasts a full 2 days.

    1. Triggerfish

      Re: The single failure with all "Flagship" these phones..

      What use is a Quad HD screen, apart from killing my battery?

      1. Lee D Silver badge

        Re: The single failure with all "Flagship" these phones..

        "What use is a Quad HD screen, apart from killing my battery?"

        To be honest, I watch movies on my S5 Mini. At night, phone on chest, SD-purchased movie, it looks just fine. When I'm reading web pages, I can't see a single pixel, no matter how hard I try. Whether that's aliasing or just sheer screen res, I don't really care.

        At the kinds of distances these things are used, even HD isn't worth the effort (in fact, I save a few quid by only ever buying the SD-version, because I can't tell the difference and because the stream-bandwidth is less if I do that).

        Same with quite a lot of the specs nowadays. As you say, the things that matter don't seem to change. I don't care about ultra-thinness. I'll happily have a slab in my pocket if it provides benefit. I don't care about ultra-light-weight. Sometimes it's nice to know the phone is in my pocket and you can't really go mad anyway given the single criteria "phone-sized". I'd rather have a thicker, heavier phone with longer battery, more ports, and more oomph (but not much, because pretty much the phone I have does everything I need at the speed I need it to) than edge-to-edge screens, HD screens, 4K screens, entirely-touch screens,ultra-thin screens, and no way to plug the damn thing into the things I want.

        To be honest, even the mini-micro-nano-SIM / mini-micro-nano-SD junk drives me mad. Just give me the big slot and if the card I want to plug in is too small, I'll put an adaptor on it. I can't do that the other way around, plugging a big SIM into a nano-SIM slot.

        Oh, and dual, triple, quad SIM while you're there. Gimme a Nokia-style brick, with modern hardware and all the trimmings. Then I'll consider it worth paying more than a couple of hundred quid for.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The single failure with all "Flagship" these phones..

          "To be honest, even the mini-micro-nano-SIM / mini-micro-nano-SD junk drives me mad."

          Every UK SIM I've encountered in the past three years (across the household fleet of phones, multiple providers, contract and SIM only, MNO and MVNO) has been a full size one press outs for the smaller sizes. Are people really issuing the old style full size SIMs without that?

          1. Lee D Silver badge

            Re: The single failure with all "Flagship" these phones..

            @Anon: Vodafone. All the damn time.

        2. Alistair
          Windows

          Re: The single failure with all "Flagship" these phones..

          I have NetFlix on my MotoG5. I keep up with my (no one else in house watches) series off NF by watching while I cook dinner. (Bluetooth headset comes in handy here, so I'm not chopping cable into the onions or summat) HD is utterly pointless on a phone. In any circumstances.

          1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

            Re: The single failure with all "Flagship" these phones..

            HD is utterly pointless on a phone. In any circumstances.

            When you're using it as a phone, I agree anything more than 300-odd ppi is pretty pointless. The added extra res does come into its own when using VR though.

          2. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

            Re: The single failure with all "Flagship" these phones..

            @Alistair, "HD is utterly pointless on a phone. In any circumstances."

            Nope, it come into it's own when you use VR Apps, then you want more pixel density. Or you use a VR Headset and a theatre application, and get a large virtual screen in front of you. A VR headset and a pair of headphones is a nice immersive way to enjoy a flick. OK, you can't chop onions and immerse, but don't knock it until you try it.

            1. Baldrickk

              Re: The single failure with all "Flagship" these phones..

              From arm's length, I get the point.

              From half that, (I.e. where I actually hold it when lounging around watching videos on it) the field of view is about the same as it is my 50" 4k TV from my sofa.

              With both, I can easilly tell the difference in the image quality when watching 720p, 1080p and 4k resolution video, and as stated a couple of times above, using it as a VR screen really makes the pixel density matter.

              For most everything else though, web browsing, actually using it as a phone, etc, etc, the resolution doesn't really matter.

      2. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

        Re: What use is a Quad HD screen?

        not a lot if you are viewing 4K Videos on the handset.

        But Marketing said that 4K is where it is at and so here is a 4K screen on a handheld device.

        It will sell lots to the 'My thing is bigger than your thing brigade'. sigh.

        1. defiler

          Re: What use is a Quad HD screen?

          To drive the price down so we can get them in the next-gen VR headsets :)

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @Steve Davies 3 - Quad HD & 4K videos

          Quad HD != 4K. Quad HD is 2560x1440, 4K is 3840x2160 (well technically 4K is 4096x2160 and UHD is 3840x2160, but everyone calls the latter 4K)

          Not that you can tell the difference when watching a 4K video on a 6" screen, but then you probably couldn't tell the difference between Quad HD and full HD (1920x1080) when watching said 4K video on a 6" screen either. Or watching the same video in "mere" full HD resolution. I suppose those who are very nearsighted might like it though - you get the same experience as having a massive $10,000 TV in your living room by holding your phone three inches from your nose!

          I agree with you though, it is essentially a marketing exercise. No doubt we'll see 4K displays on phones eventually. I don't think it is the display technology holding them back, it is the additional load it puts on the GPU for something the user can't see.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The single failure with all "Flagship" these phones..

      Why would I pay a premium for this?

      You wouldn't because you're logical and rational, like me and more than a few round these parts. We cannot see how Samsung (or Apple) can justify the huge prices of their premium phones - and even their mid range and low end phones are poor value against the interlopers.

      But we are not the target market. These things sell to people who have a few bob spare every month and will happily have £40-£50 contract phones; Generally younger buyers, people who spend all day fondling their phone, manage their lives through it, and are defined in their social circle by ownership of a premium handset. Apple X, 8, or at a push 7, Sammy 8 of any flavour, they might get by with a OnePlus 5, an LG G6, but if they go with those non-fashionable alternatives they'll forever be justifying to their equally shallow mates why they don't have a Samsung 8 or an iPhone X.

      I wrote above £40-50 a month - there's currently a special offer on the EE website, offering the iPhone X for.....<drumroll>...£83 a month <fanfare>.

      You and I are not part of the self absorbed world that is intended to buy these devices.

      1. Gob Smacked

        Re: The single failure with all "Flagship" these phones..

        @Ledswinger: I guess you forget the Note *users*. I can easily do 3 years with a Note and then put my savings on the table for the next big thing. I find it's mostly appreciated by business users and they can easily spare 3 dollars a day to upgrade yearly.

        The Note series is mostly about the fan base. If you really use the stylus and the additional software with it, you'll miss that dearly on a "regular" phone.

    3. royprime

      Re: The single failure with all "Flagship" these phones..

      I know everyone always moans about the batteries on phones, but do you live in a location with no power or do you just sleep only every other day? I put my phone on charge at night and in the morning I've 100% which happily sees me through the day.

      1. Triggerfish

        Re: The single failure with all "Flagship" these phones. @ royprime

        I actually do you my phone a lot when out and about, including relying on GPS, and all the other bits I have on it. It can quite deplete battery life during the day, it's a pain around late evening if about to go out and having to charge up because the charge is low.

  2. Dippywood

    What use the stylus?

    I have a Note 4, and whilst I like the stylus, in most circumstances it is just a "nice thing to have."

    However, there is something for which i have found it essential:- correctly entering Vietnamese text into Google Translate.

    For those not in the know, Vietnamese uses the Latin alphabet with diacritics marking the tones, inflexions and guttural stops - having the wrong accents on your text will completely change it's meaning. Since camera input does not work, being able to write the word is very useful, and saves trying to remember the keyboard trickery required to get the right diacritics in the appropriate places.

    Since I am married into a Vietnamese family, this is a life-saver!

    Niche perhaps, but suits me!

    1. Triggerfish

      Re: What use the stylus?

      Just curious but can't you use a Viet keyboard easily? I watch them and they seem to switch between that and English on the phones and use them so fast including getting the right accent marks etc. Haven't tried one yet.

    2. Dippywood

      Re: What use the stylus?

      They exist - and you are right that the Vietnamese use them well - but you need to remember all the shortcuts to get the diacritics.

      Not practical for an occasional user.

      1. Triggerfish

        Re: What use the stylus?

        Aaah I see, currently learning Viet, but I see it getting switched between so fast and still unfamiliar enough with the language I can't follow what they are doing.

        I didn't think a note would be more useful than an S8+ but that's a use I never thought of.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "the wrong accents on your text will completely change it's meaning"

      Also, having a misplaced apostrophe in an English text.... (it's instead of its...) :-)

      1. Dippywood

        Re: "the wrong accents on your text will completely change it's meaning"

        I must be a grocer :-)

        That is not normally an error I make, but mea culpa

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Can someone recommend an Android phone that has less crapware, a long battery life, and decent specs? I was waiting for the Note 8 but I want a phone that goes longer between charges.

    1. Triggerfish

      Could try looking at the LG V20, older model but removable battery.

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        It might be worth you looking at the the Moto Z range from Motorola - Android appears pretty stock, and Moto boast battery lives between 24 and 40 hours depending on model. Plus, you can snap a 'Moto Mod' battery on the back for even more uptime - a better solution than swapping a battery (a la older Note and LG phones) because no phone restart is required.

        Some Sony Xperia phones boast a good battery life, and they do minimal reskinning of Android. There are some bundled apps such as 'Walkman', but not all of them are crap. Sony's 'Stamina Mode' is better than Google's Battery Saving mode on Marshmallow, but I don't know if Sony still add it.

        1. Ol' Grumpy

          In terms of "stock android" - the Moto G5 Plus is also worth considering although I believe there is a new one in the works. Decent camera, dual sim and the battery easily lasts into a second day for me and there isn't much in the way of bloatware on there.

          The downside is that software updates however don't appear to be a thing. I've been stuck on 7.0 since I got it. It also has a fixed battery.

          1. Cuddles

            "In terms of "stock android" - the Moto G5 Plus is also worth considering although I believe there is a new one in the works. Decent camera, dual sim and the battery easily lasts into a second day for me and there isn't much in the way of bloatware on there."

            This would be my recommendation too. Got one a month or so ago for about £200; stock Android with specs more than good enough for everything except benchmark pissing contests. It's not waterproof, has a fixed battery and doesn't have a great camera, but there really doesn't seem to be anything comparable even at twice the price, let alone at the same price.

            The Moto G5S and G5S+ have supposedly already been released, but seem to be very difficult to actually find anywhere. The trouble is that they've upped the size, so the G5S is now the same size as the G5+ but with terrible specs, while the G5S+ is significantly bigger at 5.5". If you want a massive phone it's probably not bad if you can actually find one, but the original G5+ is much more my cup of tea.

            As for updates, they'll probably get at least one based on how the previous phones in the series were treated, but they're certainly not going to be regular. LineageOS should be available soon though, which will keep it getting updates long after any manufacturer would have abandoned them.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Will wait until the G5S+ hits, and see if I can try one in my hands in a shop before I buy, but sounds like what I'm after. Thank you all!

    2. Peter 26

      I hate crapware, but went with the Samsung S8+ bought 2nd hand on eBay for about £530. They have only been out a few months, so most people selling them are unwanted upgrades. There is an app called BK Disabler which you can use to disable all the Samsung crapware including the Bixby button (no root required), install Nova launcher and it ends up looking like a normal android phone.

      The only alternative I considered in the flagship but not £1000 price bracket are the OnePlus 5 which has a slightly worse camera, proprietary fast charging (which is better than all the rest, but means you can only buy charging accessories from OnePlus) and they only support software updates on their phones for about 18 months. But the best thing is no crapware, it's pretty much default android.

      Unfortunately there is no obvious answer, it depends on what you care about. For me I care more about regular updates and a decent camera so went with Samsung s8+, but wish I didn't have to disable all the crapware, but it wasn't that hard and is a one off thing.

      The best phone will probably be the next Google Pixel announced in the beginning of October, but it will probably cost around £1000.

      1. Neill Mitchell

        £1K barrier broken

        "The best phone will probably be the next Google Pixel announced in the beginning of October, but it will probably cost around £1000."

        This is the problem. Now the £1K barrier is effectively broken, everyone will start taking the piss and selling £1K devices because Apple and Samsung are getting away with it. Pure profit and greed.

        What tangible real world improvements does the Note 8 really give over the Note 4? I'm all for new products, but this strikes me as a small incremental technology refresh for a serious hike in price.

        Priced for the current market rather than actual technology value.

    3. fruitoftheloon
      Happy

      @Anne-Lise Peach

      Anne-Lise,

      I charge my Blackberry Keyone about every three days, I find the BB keyboard (which doe lots of VERY useful stuff) to be a fabby 'droid.

      Ooi Carphone warehouse usually stock them if you wanted to give one a test drive...

      Ymmv.

      Cheers,

      Jay.

    4. Uncle Slacky Silver badge

      Moto G5

      Pretty much stock Android, still gets updates, decent battery and good specs (AFAICT).

      1. Alistair
        Windows

        Re: Moto G5

        I'm not sure what moto is doing with the G5, but MotoG5 with RR and I can go (sometimes) three days with regular usage, but typically don't go below 60% battery on a regular day. Mind you I only have about 10 installed apps, and I throttle them *all* with ES.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Can someone recommend an Android phone that has less crapware, a long battery life, and decent specs?

      Depends what you mean by decent specs. I've just splashed £158 on one of these.. Lasts several days with my very light use - I've had it on power with minimal use for 8 days 22 hours before it turned itself off. Using it as intended you'd get two or three days out of it. I opted for the 3 GB RAM, it works quickly and effectively, takes an SD card, the main hint that it is not an expensive phone is that the Sony 13 Mp camera is reasonable, but not as good as the current premium phone cameras - its more in keeping with a Sony or Samsung mid-range phone. Overall, its brilliant, feels really well made, looks super. Out of the box the icons are a bit Apple-esque that may suit you, but I didn't like, but I just stuck on Nova Launcher, and it looks fantastic and works well. If you install a new launcher you'll need to install a separate SMS client like Android Messages, because the Xiaomi SMS client is a system app that Nova doesn't seem to recognise.

      What don't you get? You're forgoing waterproofing, wireless and fast charging, USB-C, but those were all things I can live without (there are immersion test videos on Youtube that claim it is waterproof, but the makers aren't claiming that,and I'm assuming it isn't). The supplied charger + UK adaptor isn't something you'll want to use, but any proper UK USB charging lead is fine, and it doesn't come with earphones, but takes any 3.5mm connection or Bluetooth. The other things you're not getting are things most of us don't need - ultra-fast processors that only show up in benchmarks, excess pixel counts and the like.

      I bought mine through Ebay from a UK importer who made sure this was the "Global" model with all the right 4G bands, and who configured the device for English users and installed Google services. That way I don't get embroiled with UK import duty issues, and it is UK despatched so if I wanted to return it then that's quick and easy (at the risk of advertising, the Ebay supplier was miandmore ). And by paying with a credit card on a UK transaction, I've got some protection if it all goes base over apex and the supplier can't or won't help.

    6. Gob Smacked

      @ Anne-Lise Pasch

      If you can try it for yourself or have a Note 8 owner at hand, you'll find that the battery life is very good and it charges very, very quickly. Don't mind the figures, listen to the experience.

    7. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      Can someone recommend an Android phone that has less crapware, a long battery life, and decent specs?

      OnePlus 3 or 3T. I wouldn't recommend the 5 - it's £200 more for very little extra.

      And they update reasonably regularly. And have an active ROM crowd so plenty of choice if you don't like the supplier ROM.

      1. psychonaut

        get a second hand note 4. as long as you can put up with the crappy night camera action.

        1. the Jim bloke
          Unhappy

          problem with 2nd hand is age / wear.

          My note 4 is becoming unreliable, and will need replacement soon, but buying a phone of the same vintage implies the same issues.

          I would love another note 4 - at least compared to whats currently on offer, the only real improvements seem to be increased storage and wireless charging (in hope of reducing mechanical wear on the USB port).

          Most of the new features being advertised are actually negative incentives. The only reason to buy the new models is because the bastards stopped making the old ones.

          1. Baldrickk

            mechanical wear on the USB port

            That's the first practical argument for wireless charging that I have heard so far.

            (That's charging pads - room level wireless charging would be cool and useful.

        2. Boo Radley

          Note 4?

          I've been using my Note 3 for 3+ years. You can still find a Note 4 brand new on ebay for less than $250, which is my planned upgrade path.

  4. Dave 126 Silver badge

    Mathematical notation?

    I've only briefly played with a Note (4?), but I got the impression that it was handy for entering mathematical notation, transcribing big Sigma symbols and the like. Presumably it'd be useful for cultures that don't use an alphabet as we Roman-influenced folk do - is this the case?

    And what is 3rd party support for the stylus like? Presumably it lends accuracy to drawing and painting apps, but does it add anything else?

    I get the impression that some past Note buyers chose it for removable battery and sdCard rather than the stylus per se - can any Note users comment on this?

    It just seemed strange that the reviewer didn't have the imagination to see past his own stylus use case of making shopping lists. But maybe he's in the majority - one assumes the market for a stylus phone is not overwhelmingly huge, else Apple would make an iPhone that supports the iPad Pro's pencil. (It doesn't matter a damn what Steve Jobs might have said about stylii, he was known to turn on a dime if presented with a strong argument. He didn't like the Windows CE

    resistive touchscreen phones that *required* a stylus just to use as a phone)

    1. rmason

      Re: Mathematical notation?

      @Dave 126

      I've had every (I think) note that was launched in the UK.

      You're 100% correct. Others may vary but what attracted me to the note line was the large and replaceable battery. It's what kept me there too.

      The stylus actually does become handy, but (for me) was never a key feature or the reason for purchase. It does get used, but rarely in any serious way.

    2. Lee D Silver badge

      Re: Mathematical notation?

      Mathematical notation on anything like this is going to be a nightmare.

      I never managed to find a single device useful for this when I was at university, the tolerances and accuracy just aren't there and it makes it slower than just using pen-and-paper. Even 75"+ interactive whiteboards are a struggle.

      I still contend - despite being an IT guy for 20 years - that there is no sensible way to record mathematical notation on a machine outside of formal LaTeX-/MathML-like languages (even if done through a GUI), or by hand. There's far too much scope for "did you mean to the power of x, multiplied by x, x-bar, absolute x, x subscript, Chi, etc." with any kind of automated interpretation so that, like voice recognition, you spend half your time going back and correcting things rather than typing them. And that's REALLY not what you want in an equation where one mis-placed or mis-interpreted symbol destroys an entire paper.

      And if I was in a lecture taking maths notes or trying to "invent" new maths, I would not want to be hindered by technicalities while the thoughts are flowing and have further x's and Chi's thrown at me.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Mathematical notation?

      All the best third party paint apps support the stylus very well, including pressure sensitiviy and palm rejection and things like using your finger as the eyedropper tool. I don't use it for anything other than that though.

  5. Brenda McViking

    I give Orlowski a hard time over lack of specs in reviews, so it's only fair Sharwood also gets chastised for not having the following basic spec info in the article:

    what charging slot? Type-C usb

    MicroSD card slot? yes (and some markets hybrid microSD/2nd SIM)

    3.5mm jack? yes

    removable battery? no. okay, I admit defeat. I think this one is looking pretty dead and never to return. doesn't mean I have to like it though. My last smartphone purchase was an LG V20, and the removable battery was the fundamental reason.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      The Moto Mod phones allow a secondary battery 'backpack', reducing the number of charge/discharge cycles endured by the primary battery.

    2. Dave 126 Silver badge

      The LG V20 has a *swappable* battery... the LG-built Nexus 5 has a *removable* battery. The distinction is that the former takes seconds and the latter takes a few minutes - and a small Philips screwdriver.

    3. James 51

      There is a LG Stylus 3 which has a stylus and a removeable battery but can't find any reviews on the sites I ususally go to so not sure what it is like. Can't find it on amazon either, Three is the only place that seems to have it.

    4. Brangdon

      Am I the only person who also cares about FM radio? I want one partly for emergencies, partly to save data, and partly to save battery. Few flagship phones have them now, allegedly because the network operators want you to pay for internet data instead.

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        If you want to save battery, use the FM radio on a Sansa Clip. If you want access to an FM radio for emergencies then a phone really isn't suitable - the battery on a standalone FM radio will last weeks of occasional use.

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