Indian call centre scammers are targeting BT customers BT customers in the UK have been targeted by scammers in India – with one person reporting they were defrauded for thousands of pounds this week. The issue appears to have been going on for more than a year. Some customers said the fraudsters knew their personal details. One reader got in touch to report that his father-in- …
I had a long debate about just that with a man who said he was from a company with which I have a couple of investments. He did not see the illogicality of asking me for identification details when he had actually called me and I would not accept that he was who he said he was without some identification from him. In the end, I received a letter which was genuine but I still do not accept calls from them.
Would those people be "Wellington Capital Group", Tokyo? I'd take care if it is them.
Those people are good, very persuasive, they will send paperwork too. They call from a "genuine" Tokyo number, probably a Tokyo-located media-gateway with a VPN to the actual location.
The 1'st slight flaw in execution is that the paper mailings are generic and does not have Japanese postage on it, it comes from the end of some logistics chain: "Posten AB, International Mail" with a return mailbox in Malmö. Could be someone local getting this material in bulk by freight, then mailing it.
The 2'nd is that they call me, why would they call me!? If I need a stock broker to tell me about a very special opportunity, I call them!
The 3'rd is that I don't need 25%-50% return on some one-shot setup; because it will not change my situation so to speak (winning the lottery would, not this). I need some % always. I can easily get that locally for much less execution costs and no currency risks and no tax trouble.
Personally my solution is to never answer the phone. Ever.
Frankly the only reason I even have a phone line at all is because it's the only way I can get an internet connection, although I'm reliably informed that a so-called "copper pair only" service is technically feasible, except the only UK ISP that actually provides this service (A&A I believe) doesn't cover my area.
I used to do call screening, but now I don't even bother listening to messages. Anyone who has any legitimate business contacting me does so by email. If you attempt any other method, or you're not on the email whitelist, then I remain blissfully unaware of your existence.
Meanwhile, for those looking for something a little more aggressive than mere defence, this guy (SFW-ish) has a rather interesting solution.
"Anyone who has any legitimate business contacting me does so by email."
My dentist and the NHS hospital phone me to remind me of an imminent appointment with them.
The "international" ones are regular annoyances several times a week recently. Same recorded message every time. I've tried leaving the phone off hook for half an hour to hopefully lock their outgoing line. Now I just put the phone down when I hear her dulcet tones. A lousy business that doesn't take the hint they are wasting their time.
Unfortunately I do have overseas friends who still use the phone rather than Skype.
"NHS hospital phone me via a withheld number".... there, fixed that for you.
At least the NHS has the OPTION to unblock cli on outgoing calls, apparently the Police dont, so any cli blocked call claiming to be the Police may actually BE the Police.
I have managed to get the NHS to sent text reminders, as they wont read the line on my notes that says "All masked calls are refused", so I missed loads of appointments - and also turned up for appointments they tried to cancel at T minus 60 minutes.
Why aren't British scammers more involved in this growth industry?
Ignoring the joke aspect, they are, just different types. For bank transfer fraud the scammer will have most success if they are beyond the reach of UK plods, in a jurisdiction where corruption and fraud are business as usual. And they need a bank account somewhere that will be near impossible for UK investigators to trace or recover money from.
You could do this in the UK, but you'd trigger red flag systems for money laundering, you'd have to do high profile things like taking large sums of cash out, have lots of accounts open (and closed quickly), and it would be relatively easy for the police to find you, collect the evidence, and then track you and arrest you.
They most certainly are.
The crooks even wait outside call centres and offer cash to the poor folks working there on crap wages if they will sneak out lists of details.
There is AFAIK a case currently ongoing into exactly this in the U.K.
Spoofing CLI, that's not difficult and let's be honest you could get a zero hours contract job as a cleaner on minimum wage in many call centres. Once in, hit the fire alarm, drop your keylogger somewhere as the place empties or grab a ream of papers on your way out.
They are. They usually do insurance and stock trading scams.
The stock broker scammers are all talking with a pretty smooth British accent, the perfect mix between Scholared Gentleman/Wimmen and the plain ruffian who know how to work "The Street" and who will get you the goods, no matter what. They pretend to be Valets, basically.
Probably runs their boiler rooms out of Malta or Spain via VPN for legal reasons.
The data used by these scammers is being leaked from inside BT or it's being carried out by BT employees in India themselves. How do I know? Well back in 2001 I changed my surname by deedpoll in the UK, but BT were never informed. They are the only company that still use my old surname, which isn't used anywhere else. So when someone phones up tell me they're from BT, wanting to help make my broadband better and they're using my old surname, I know where that data has come from.
In reply,
Because it has been going on since the day after the first call centre opened there*; reports about it have been published year after year, but do any UK companies give a shit??
Only when it hits them in the wallet.. and even then they have very short memories.
*Workers being paid £100 per month were being offered £1,000 per time to smuggle out the days data files.
"We'll never ask customers for personal information out of the blue."
I got a call from my ISP (Plusnet - BT owned) the other day, wanting to talk to me about upgrading my broadband package. I refused to give any personal information because they had just rung me up out of the blue. They said they would send me an e-mail, to prove who they were.... So how exactly am I supposed to check that the e-mail is from them?
And according to the person who phoned me up, I can't check out the prices of the packages that they're offering on the plusnet website, because they're only available to the retention team, who speak to you over the phone, and surprise surprise, the phone number of the retention team is not on the plusnet website.
So, now that the idea of changing my broadband package has been planted in my head, I can't identify who to talk to about changing my package, and the offers on the website are for new subscribers, so I should probably think about changing my ISP then?
EDIT:- to clarify, the person on the phone did not sound like someone in a call centre in india.
"I got a call from my ISP (Plusnet - BT owned) the other day,"
Well I know what you mean, but I was called by them a year or so ago and offered a much reduced charge for what I was getting (unlimited download, fixed IP, domain name and web-space) . I'm very cautious about this kind of call but as they didn't want any details I went ahead and it was all genuine. Just wish genuine companies would think about how they appear to people they are (cold) calling.
These sort of calls, where you're called by companies offering to reduce your bill "out of the goodness of their hearts" (or more likely because they want to put you on a new contract with worse terms) I ignore completely.
If I want to pay less, I will call them myself when I want to.
Sometimes it's actually better to pay more if it means you get more service or stay on contract terms that are far better than a new contract.
I received these calls for years. BT was atrocious with many interruptions and line faults, every time the scammers called my internet broke. I came to the conclusion there is a flaw in the BT router allowing them to "break" my internet if they know my number and IP. I was ex-directory, TPS and never gave out my number. I moved from BT and ADSL and no longer get the calls.
I know they were compromised because I give false information to all suppliers including BT by using variations on my name, I do this for all suppliers. It does mean I keep my own database in a notebook (paper) so I don't get things mixed up and it can't be hacked.
When they called I tried to waste their time as much as possible so I can learn what they are doing. If I was bored I also became a gay chat line or a security firm when they called.
AC because I am paranoid and they are out to get me.
During years of unsatisfactory dealings with BT I realised that I could not rely on the Indian call centre to actually do anything. They were helpful and polite but when I received my next bill, the promised corrections were not there. Instead I emailed the Customer Services boss of BT and was, in turn, contacted by a woman with an Ulster accent who actually fixed things.
Alternatively, use Twitter and when (inevitably) the BT's Twitter Jockeys can't fix issues they may hand you on to online interactive text chat. You then have a written record of your dealings, unlike on the phone.
In the end, increasing fees meant I dumped BT 18 months ago -- so things may have improved/got worse since.
"Alternatively, use Twitter and when (inevitably) the BT's Twitter Jockeys can't fix issues they may hand you on to online interactive text chat. You then have a written record of your dealings, unlike on the phone."
One can only hope that the people manning the text chat are more competent than those on the other end of the Yodel chat app thing, who as far as I could tell had no more control over my parcel than I did. I had such a bad experience that I've now stopped using websites when I can identify that they use Yodel as a courier. Wiggle, I miss you...
....instead have a voicemail setup that is the sound of an old modem or fax machine. Obviously make sure all your friends are aware. Then when their automated software calls your number and waits for a human to answer, it hears the modem/fax noise and thinks its rung a fax machine so will hang up and blacklist your number from their list. So you'll never get called again.
Works with cold callers as well who tend to use the same type of software.
At the end of the title sequence, they had a tag line, normally 'The truth is out there', but they occasionally mixed it up. The one that I recall that is relevant to this story is 'Trust no one'. If you've called me, and I'm not expecting your call, and I don't recognize your voice, then I don't believe a word you say. They are preying on people who are trusting, and that tends to be the more vulnerable in society. Which makes these people total shit in my book.
For the posters who seem to be annoyed when their phone rings, or never answers it, or records a modem, or whatever...
Why do you have a phone plugged into the socket?
Our household (similarly had to have a line for broadband) method of dealing with it, was to never buy a phone to connect to the line. Don't need one, don't own one. Just pay the line rental for the broadband and ignore the thing exists.
Going to any sort of effort, or getting annoyed in even the smallest way seems daft.
Don't even know what the landline number is. There's been nothing plugged into it for a decade, and the number was never given out.
For me it is the reliable phone line or effectively no communications. We live in a house which has very unreliable mobile service.
I am not now with BT as such any more and never had their broadband. Yesterday my wife fielded one call about 'our 'BT BB yesterday and I had one today. The idiot was so shocked to hear that my (non) BT was in fine health, I almost felt sorry for them.
Once around Christmas I was doing something with BT and also had a bank statement on my desk. A scammer claimed that a payment had been missed, when I had several proofs to rebut his claim I just wish the scum could get an 'honest' fraud.
Not if you've been hoodwinked into getting so-called "VOIP" with your so-called "broadband" you won't. Not unless you spring for a hellaciously expensive backup battery for the so-called "modem". And even then, the battery is only good for a couple of minutes.
When I pointed out that The Bay Area may well get hit with a major earthquake that knocks out PG&E power to millions of people, many of whom will be needing to dial into emergency services after the disaster, the reply was "they can use their cell phones". This despite the fact that most cell towers are supplied with the same PG&E power that homes are ...
They are $TELCO. They don't care, they don't have to. (Apologies to Ernestine.)
Keep your POTS line, people!
I recall watching a YouTube video of a guy who had a scammer phone him from a large ISP and he went along with it for ages and when they wanted to remote into his device, he fired up a Windows 98 VM and when the technician got connected he was so confused. Loved it.
Always ask immediately (and insist on a full answer) "Who's calling?" Family and friends soon get used to it.
Get complete caller's details if in doubt. Be absolutely sure what the calling organisation does.
For call centre scammers : "Do you think <suitable derogatory ethnic> should be castrated?" etc.
If somebody is going through a script then (and you're still on the line for some reason) then take over the asking of questions.
Never say who I am until I'm happy and clicked on the record button. Never EVER give ANY data regarding 'data protection'. That's a loud alarm bell.
If somebody say "Regarding your complaint" etc. then respond with "which one?"
I had one the other day, she asked what i was using to access the internet, I explained i was using an android tablet, an iphone and an amazon dot.
She then tried to get me to go to w3 validator then validate to any website - the default will always show errors even for google.com. she said that was evidence that i had a virus causing problems and i should pay to get it sorted.
This took over 40 minutes and then i just said "you know what you can do? Crawl back under whatever rock you crawled out from under, I am a computer security expert and know you are nothing to do with BT and are trying to scam me out of money. Thank you and Goodbye. I then hung up.
2 minutes later I had a man call me back and tell me to take my phone and shove it where the sun doesnt shine.
Wouldn't surprise me if the calls were actually coming from the call centres used by BT in India.
During my time with Time Computers / Supanet we used contract call centres who - in the same room - also did work for TalkTalk, BT, and a number of Indian companies.
OK a few years ago, but the same principle applies: these overseas call centres are contractors, many of the companies running them are bent, and many of the staff are corrupt (including the managers)
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