back to article 'Independent' gov law reviewer wants users preemptively identified before they're 'allowed' to use encryption

The UK’s “independent reviewer of terrorism legislation” appears to have gone rogue, saying that encryption should be withheld from people who don’t verify their identities on social media. Max Hill QC is supposedly the reviewer of government laws designed to stop terrorists. His latest statement, carried in tonight’s London …

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So, what they're looking for is...

      So we would have to register for encryption rights, which we would presumably have to do over an, err, unencrypted link...

      1. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: So, what they're looking for is...

        Not to mention that in the UK, the fundamental document used for proving who you are in order to obtain your identification paperwork is a birth certificate - which is explicitly NOT an identification document as anyone can get a copy.

        It's cards all the way down.

  1. Teiwaz

    So, what they're looking for is...

    Satellite that can scratch their ass from space...

    Max Wall Hill QC

    - no comment - and he shouldn't have bothered. We're back to the old 'criminals won't care about legal permission, this will just impact the innocent and the ignorant'.

    - Next on the agenda, permitting only people with something of value to keep safes (they might stash something illegal in there).

    - or people with money to hold bank accounts?

    1. sitta_europea Silver badge

      Re: So, what they're looking for is...

      - Next on the agenda, permitting only people with something of value to keep safes (they might stash something illegal in there).

      - or people with money to hold bank accounts?

      My mum used to say "Only dirty people wash." :)

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What about private ciphers?

    Backdoors in encryption don't provide protection against private ciphers!

    *

    GCHQ is welcome to decrypt this message encrypted in a private book cipher:

    yamalka berlinite shelters Diann saussuritize amos circumgenital Scotch-Irish well-crested foins extrorse metagalaxies dueful phrampel biospheres incapacitator unsplendidness dampers Weltschmerz snookums dung-cart nondegeneracy eliminant phyllorhinine nitrosurea sparkplugging brulyiement Erastianize aventails boondoggle ugly-tempered

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What about private ciphers?

      yamalka berlinite shelters Diann saussuritize amos circumgenital Scotch-Irish well-crested foins extrorse metagalaxies dueful phrampel biospheres incapacitator unsplendidness dampers Weltschmerz snookums dung-cart nondegeneracy eliminant phyllorhinine nitrosurea sparkplugging brulyiement Erastianize aventails boondoggle ugly-tempered

      You take that back!

    2. patrickstar

      Re: What about private ciphers?

      Sir. We have probable cause to believe that the contents of that are instructions for carrying out a terrorist attack.

      Please provide the means to decrypt it or we will keep you locked up for 5 years.

      After which we'll repeat the demand and lock you up for 5 more if you still insist it was just randomly generated gobbledygook.

      Best regards,

      Your friendly neighborhood anti-terror police

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What about private ciphers?

        So....hypothetically.....the code talkers of WW2 would be breaking some law or another....using a natural language?

    3. Pen-y-gors

      Re: What about private ciphers?

      @AC

      Sorry, I'm seeing the Dentist then. Can you manage Thursday instead?

    4. Pen-y-gors

      Re: What about private ciphers?

      Private cyphers?

      An interesting question for the Mekon-brains amongst the readership.

      Is it possible to develop a form of encryption that can take two different source texts and encrypt them with two different keys, which produce the same encrypted output?

      What I mean is that we start with "Mary had a little lamb" and "The invasion is on 6th June, in Normandy" and we get an output of "dampers Weltschmerz snookums dung-cart nondegeneracy eliminant phyllorhinine nitrosurea sparkplugging brulyiement Erastianize aventails boondoggle". If we decrypt it with key A we get the first text, and key B gives the second text.

      This would allow really bad people to give key A to the other really bad people in blue and show that their message was innocuous.

      1. patrickstar

        Re: What about private ciphers?

        Yes - that's pretty much the whole point of one time pads.

        But then you need a key the same length as the message.

      2. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: What about private ciphers?

        "Is it possible to develop a form of encryption that can take two different source texts and encrypt them with two different keys, which produce the same encrypted output?"

        Yes. That was one of the functions of Truecrypt.

  3. Daggerchild Silver badge

    Scotland: Invade. Please.

    So, the only people who won't be spied upon, are terrorists. Gotcha.

    But if you use something they don't understand, isn't that also effectively encryption?

    So, how long before you can be arrested on suspicion of inventing?

  4. WatAWorld

    Lack of encryption jeopardizes politicians more than most of us: look at Clinton

    Dale Carnegie said something to the effect, "To convince someone to do something, we have to frame it in terms of what motivates them. And in order to do that, we have to be able to see things from their point of view as well as our own. "

    One the groups most jeopardized by lack of widely available private encryption is politicians, like Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, Justin Trudeau, and Theresa May. In Clintons' and many other cases, that jeopardy is with lack of security on their personal email.

    Another of the most jeopardized groups is political candidates. And candidates are generally stuck using the deeply flawed and vulnerable civilian communications and telephone products regular civilians do.

    Yeah, restricting encryption makes life easier for our security agencies, but likewise it makes life easy for the other side's security agencies, organized crime, and political opponents.

    Yeah, journalists care about how restricting encryption affects them. And yeah, businesses worry about how restrictions on message security reduce their ability to keep trade secrets from competitors. Similarly with academics racing to publish papers ahead of their competition at other labs and schools.

    But what really matters, what will decide things, is whether politicians see restricting the availability of effectiveness of encryption makes life hard and embarrassing for politicians.

    Make politicians aware that their security is our security. Make politicians aware that government agencies that want to make it easier to spy on civilians are making it easier for everyone to spy on politicians, candidates, and constituency workers.

    Politicians have to be made to realize that spy agencies against encryption are spy agencies against democracy and in favour of a chekist regime.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekism

    "Chekism (from Cheka, the first Soviet secret police organization) is a term to describe the situation in the Soviet Union and contemporary Russia, where the secret political police controlled everything in society"

    Our security services will control everything, especially politicians.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Lack of encryption jeopardizes politicians more than most of us: look at Clinton

      Our security services will control everything, especially politicians.

      The don't already? Pretty much, They do. Looking at what's happening in American society, I see repeated examples of the "Establishment" trying to contain and force Donald Trump back on to the reservation, limited to communicating in "Establishment" ways via "Establishment" media corporations, on "Establishment" topics, and so forth. Absolutely loathe this toad, he's antithetical to everything I've discovered by a lifetime of observing this society. Textbook example of "A Bull in a China Shop." I just wonder how much will be broken by the time this is all over, perhaps literally.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Lack of encryption jeopardizes politicians more than most of us: look at Clinton

      Ever wondered why it is perfectly acceptable to spy on someone before they become an MP but then becomes verboten as soon as they are elected?

      But what happens to all their pre-Election activity?

      1. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: Lack of encryption jeopardizes politicians more than most of us: look at Clinton

        "Ever wondered why it is perfectly acceptable to spy on someone before they become an MP but then becomes verboten as soon as they are elected?"

        Do you really honestly expect them to stop?

  5. The Central Scrutinizer

    Internet licenses for all!

    Dear Register, please stop reporting stories like this, as you are only providing more ideas for the idiots in charge here, down under. What's next ffs? Internet and computer licenses, tied to specific hardware/MAC addresses etc? Human stupidity really does know no bounds.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Internet licenses for all!

      "tied to specific hardware/MAC addresses etc? Human stupidity really does know no bounds."

      It's called Windows Activation.

  6. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    The technical term for his behaviour is "gone native".

    1. Pen-y-gors

      It gets worse...

      Today he's in the paper suggesting that terrorists' families should be locked up for not reporting them. I think he's after Amber's job.

  7. scotitan
    Happy

    Re: Human stupidity really does know no bounds.

    Yeap, you really should take a look at the years of software long past...

    V7 Unix was less than 3.7 mb in size and it didnt support C++ so what changed?

    Oh encryption - Xdisplay - A little bit like a lot of Government Departments - Lots Garbage going in and not a lot coming out - Of course "Cameron" would want that, he's embarrased that he's caught up in a major money laundering scandle involving the "Community" and the "Communist" Party and according to what you'll hear from the Netherlands it all goes right back to Washington, illegal campaign contributions and a blaze of Dirty Money that lands right at the Resolute Desk embezzlement is rather a niffty thing, especially when they're all caught out at it and trying to wash there hands a proclaim there so called innocence.

    To quote "David Cameron" - I had no idea. Oh but you did, you knew and you kept silent because up until wannacry hit all those Windows XP machines, I'll wager you had lots of Money stashed away, an now you've got no money stashed away and all your friendly embezzlers who've been doing illegal and naughty things like "STEALING" cash with Mirror Trade's doing the proverbial little "black book" of finance washing and account keeping are going straight where they belong. Prison!

  8. scotitan

    Worth it? Mr Former Prime Minister?

    We all hope that flash 10 Million Pound house was worth it, it's just a shame that when you look out of your Window you get to see the fruits of what all that "Money Laundering" and "Mirror Trading" did to the economy, how shall we sell it? "luxury appartments, with scenic homeless view" - eh? Get to view the rising tides of inequality all over the city street's below, get step over the homeless city folk sleeping in your doorway as you climb into your "Ferrari" because of a few, the trusted inderviduals, who where looking out only for themselves as usual, not there own people!

    1. Pen-y-gors

      Re: Worth it? Mr Former Prime Minister?

      Whut?

      You are awomanFromVenus1 and I claim my £5.

      1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

        Re: Worth it? Mr Former Prime Minister?

        Whut?

        You are awomanFromVenus1 and I claim my £5.

        :-)

        Would the truth be servered if Cameron were to deny all knowledge of such trades? Has he ever be directly asked for an unambiguous answer?

        Such though can be difficult for a politician to provide, such be their disposition towards secrecy and obfuscation to try and maintain a sham scam power system for the entertainment of media and collecting of newspaper column inches.

      2. scotitan
        Devil

        Re: Whut?

        Have you seen the one of Merkel in Communist Uniform with an East German Stasi officer?

        When the news broke "Das ist Stasi" - Well you'd know all about it love!

        http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/21/article-2328536-19EB9CC3000005DC-960_634x391.jpg

        Hope the Government Law reviewer took the time to actually Read - the 45 Goals of Communism.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    his claimed independence from government

    it was a slip, and it won't happen again.

  10. scotitan
    Coffee/keyboard

    Re Re: Whut?

    Look on the bright side, phones are more secure - than they've ever been, just ask "Emma Watson" and all the other Celebrities who's naked flesh now adorns the internet.

    Raging Success!

  11. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. The Central Scrutinizer

      Re: Encryption == Firearms

      Now wouldn't that be fun? Prosecuting people for trying to ensure their privacy and security online.

      "You have been found guilty of taking unauthorised safety measures".

      1. David L Webb

        Re: Encryption == Firearms

        That was just for the exporting of cryptography which were for that purpose regarded as munitions. The US would never equate cryptography with firearms for US citizens use in the US since US citizens have the right to bear arms protected by their constitution.

        (This export ban was itself undermined by another right protected by the US constitution, the right to freedom of speech, when the code for PGP was exported in written form.)

  12. rodneydd

    Article image

    Cheeky but.. I'm just finishing off a blog post about Amber Rudd and encryption, can I steal that image?

  13. ChasTheOne

    This is proof positive that ignorance is flat out dangerous to freedom. Education is definitely the first step to being free.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Did Theresa May know the Barcelona child was dead (not missing), but use the situation?

    Theresa May seems to be using distressing situations to her advantage, Barcelona was a case in point, stating she was concerned about a missing child (Dual UK National).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7vCGL4l9eY

    At the time of this speech I believe both she/Security Services knew this child was dead but kept this within the speech.

    If she didn't (or Security Services didn't) both really aren't very good at their job, because there was a photo in the DM showing the boy earlier in the day (clothes he was wearing), and posted video footage online (1 of 2 videos) showing a child lying dead in the street wearing the same outfit.

    Yet nearly a day later we have May (attempting to show empathy) at the prospect of a child missing, as a result of the horrific events that day, but then using that situation to push her own political agenda.

    Using that terrible situation (if she did or her script writer) is absolutely disgraceful. If she didn't - Security Services really aren't worth the money being thrown at them, because it was very obvious the boy was dead, on the day of the incident.

    This all helps of course, when your Political agenda is to restrict encryption. She seems worryingly callous to say the least.

  15. Mike 137 Silver badge

    stop and consider

    Never ascribe to malice what can be simply explained by stupidity. I am convinced that there is no evil intent to control the masses here - just complete lack of understanding (of the entire societal condition - not just of encryption). They think they understand a 'problem' which is in reality merely a symptom of a massive cluster of social failures, and genuinely believe they can fix it piecemeal - and governments never last long enough to find out they were wrong. Witness the progressive dismantling of our education system by successions of 'bright ideas'.

  16. StargateSg7

    I will just tell em to PIGG OFF and go stuff it --- I will just make FREE AND OPEN SOURCE

    AES-256 and Shor's resistant (i.e. Quantum Computing proof!) ENCRYPTED VIDEO AND TEXT

    communications software that is BETTER and than ANY major company. And my code, which

    anyone can find online, proves I REALLY KNOW HOW TO CODE! Unlike most I can write

    READABLE code that works multi-platform in C++, BASIC, Delphi/Pascal JAVA, Python,

    HTML, x86/ARM/SPARC/PowerPC Assembler - I know them ALL!!!

    I also CANNOT BE BOUGHT and I ABSOLUTELY RESIST all government efforts

    to intrude upon our Freedoms!!! I can fight VERY WELL in almost every technical arena !!!

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

  17. Dodgy Geezer Silver badge

    For God's sake...

    ...While sensible people accept and understand that to introduce a crypto backdoor for one is to introduce a backdoor for all,....

    Just DO it. Let them do it! We would all be falling about laughing...

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