back to article Big Tech slams Trump on plan to deport kids

More than 300 business leaders including the CEOs of Apple, Amazon, Facebook and Google have signed a letter slamming Donald Trump for his plan to remove legal protections from immigrant children born in the United States. "As entrepreneurs and business leaders, we are concerned about new developments in immigration policy …

    1. fajensen
      Pint

      I have never understood America's xenophobia and attitude towards immigrants and foreigners, when you consider the entire country consists of immigrants and foreigners.

      1 part Projection - Americans rightly fear that those foreigners, once they become many / strong enough, will simply treat Americans exactly like Americans treat everyone who are not Americans but just happens to have something some rich American wants (or just bought a used cellphone from the wrong person)!

      1 part Common Sense - If you are an immigrant, having somehow "made it" or at least having a decent time, then it is stupid and counterproductive for you to support the arrival more people like you, who, because they are like you, will be going for the same "living space". Competition is only a nice thing to have when playing a game of sports!

      and

      1 part History - Mass Immigration didn't work out so well for the American Indians, maybe it will work out the same way for the current American tribes?

    2. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Paris Hilton

      I have never understood America's xenophobia and attitude towards immigrants and foreigners, when you consider the entire country consists of immigrants and foreigners.

      OTOH, why should the US and Euroland be the only countries to have open gates for the huddled masses?

      Apparently it's a moral thing to allow your kid's country to get swamped by random people wandering around looking for a better life in a somewhat economically successful countries, thus destroying them utterly (because economic resources happen to be finite, as constanly bemoaned by greens), but I don't see it.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "his plan to remove legal protections from immigrant children born in the United States."

      Surely if they were born in the US they are not immigrants?

      This is about enforcing existing laws and stopping exceptions that just encourage more people to enter the US illegally.

      1. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

        Re: anonymous coward

        "stopping exceptions that just encourage more people to enter the US illegally"

        Yeah, sucks to be you if you're brought to the US as a young kid by family, and the States are all you know, amiright????

        C.

        1. JEDIDIAH
          Boffin

          Re: anonymous coward

          I would imagine that it would suck for any kid anywhere. At least the US has birthright citizenship. Some places don't even allow for that.

  1. JEDIDIAH
    Devil

    The problem with stupid short cuts

    Well, this is the problem with stupid short cuts. I am sure we've all seen the engineering and IT version of trying to skirt the rules and ignore policies and procedures. If this came about due to a dubious abuse of executive authority, then that's it's own bag of stupid.

    Each party has it's own way of whining and moaning and saying it doesn't want to pay attention the rule of law.

  2. Throatwarbler Mangrove Silver badge
    Trollface

    Don't hate . . .

    Brexit means Brexit.

    1. James 51

      Re: Don't hate . . .

      The whole point of brexit is hate in one form or another.

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Thumb Down

        Re: Don't hate . . .

        "The whole point of brexit is hate in one form or another."

        that's right, throw ANOTHER "emotion bomb" at it, and do the ad hominem invalidation tango

        https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/20/Appeal-to-Anger

        https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/29/Appeal-to-Emotion

        https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/1/Ad-Hominem-Abusive

        and possibly this

        https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/9/Ad-Hominem-Circumstantial

        and this

        https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/10/Ad-Hominem-Guilt-by-Association

        because you are asserting that those who are FOR Brexit support it because of HATE

        and this is obviously NOT true. (although you may find a few people that actually fall into this kind of hate-based reasoning, it would assume 'guilt by association' that EVERYONE agrees with those motivated by hate)

        so thanks for the emotion bombs... [NOT]

        1. Teiwaz

          Re: Don't hate . . .

          @bombastic bob

          I'm not disagreeing, the hate comment I thought was a gross generalisation - but every backup source for your arguments pointing to the same site?

          1. bombastic bob Silver badge

            Re: Don't hate . . .

            take a look, they describe different logic fallacies, which I see here ALL of the time.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Don't hate . . .

              take a look, they describe different logic fallacies, which I see here ALL of the time.

              Ah, that explains why you use them so much. Your favourite seems to be whatabouterism, which is just enough of a sidestep from an ad hominem to avoid being called that.

            2. Teiwaz

              Re: Don't hate . . .

              take a look, they describe different logic fallacies, which I see here ALL of the time.

              I looked, it's just not very convincing when all the 'proof' is from the same source.

              (kind of like those Christians who reference the bible exclusively and think they are providing a varied and solid foundation for their argument).

              1. inmypjs Silver badge

                Re: Don't hate . . .

                "I looked, it's just not very convincing when all the 'proof' is from the same source."

                Maybe you should do some reading to understand the fallacy of your logic in making that statement.

  3. Mephistro
    Trollface

    "...legislation that provides these young people raised in our country the permanent solution they deserve."

    I hope this means giving them the citizenship, instead of a "Final Solution" for them.

    With these Muricans, you can never be sure.

  4. Adrian 4

    Who started this ?

    There's so many reversals here it's hard to be sure who's on which side.

    Seems like the problem is with the 10 states' attorneys general. Why don't the 'business leaders' criticise them for their racist inhumanity ?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Who started this ?

      The question is not who started this, it's how to solve this in a manner that preserves a degree of humanity. IMHO, if illegal migrants are employed and are contributing to the nation's economy because they either pay taxes of remove a burden from society it would be folly to send them back.

      Secondly, if someone claims they are taking away work from "genuine" Americans (which would only be the native tribes that used to roam the country before this exported lot rolled in, but I digress), invite said American to take that job. FIND an actual American willing to take the job, and by that I mean at the same salary and with the exact same conditions. If not, leave that immigrant be, because replacing them with your average random redneck would cost too much, and would stop the employer from making enough money to contribute to their orange god in the White House via taxation and more directly via the purchase of funny hats.

      The "taking away jobs" claim is about the easiest to disprove of them all.

      1. Peter2 Silver badge

        Re: Who started this ?

        The "taking away jobs" claim is about the easiest to disprove of them all.

        It is?

        What it means a lot of the time is that employers are able to exploit labour in appalling conditions in the fields at incredibly low wages. They also manage in many cases to further exploit the workers by providing accomodation (eg a caravan stuffed with a dozen people) which they can then deduct wages for, further reducing the amount that has to be paid.

        The labour out in the fields is really a chimera. No, western workers with a decade + of education generally don't want to spend months outside in cold and rain, getting RSI and back injuries picking thousands of fruit every day. That's why the job has been automated in most advanced economies.

        Eg, cabbage harvesting:-

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ3ZUoz6cWM

        Or Rasberry/blueberry harvesting:-

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt73GOk4JRY

        Equipment also exists for pretty much everything else. Simply put, if not for an excess of uncontrolled and illegal immigration giving a supply of people who would otherwise not meet the standards required in the immigration process then harvesting with swarms of seasonal labour would be something read about in history books. Companies would mechanise and this would create jobs in higher tech manufacturing, servicing and semi skilled jobs in the use of this equipment.

        However, an excess pool of unskilled labour keeps wages down for everybody, and removes any reason for businesses to spend money on automating back breaking manual work as they can make more profit at the expense of their workers.

        The question is not who started this, it's how to solve this in a manner that preserves a degree of humanity.

        Quite. How about this?

        Q: Were you <10 when you came to our country illegally, do you now belong culturally to our country and are you involved in any criminality?

        if $result == yes&yes&no then status=grant citizenship

        else status=deport

        1. JEDIDIAH
          Boffin

          Re: Who started this ?

          Except illegal labor isn't just about farm workers. I also know people that have done some of that work. To claim that NO ONE would do it otherwise is a little disengenious. The farmers would just have to pay real wages and costs would increase (the same as paying "living wages" to burger flippers).

          Although that's not the end of it. Illegals have been pushed in other industries (like meat packing) helping to drive down working conditions. When you lot get hysterical about American chicken over at the Guardian, labor abuse is part of that picture.

          I also have relatives that have been meat packers. So you can't say that job wouldn't ever be done by "white as sour cream" Americans. The same goes for construction.

          The real problem is that the illegal labor pool creates an underclass ripe for exploitation and helps drive down labor standards for everyone.

  5. Pompous Git Silver badge

    "Microsoft president Brad Smith penned a blog post warning that "these changes would not only negatively impact thousands of hardworking people across the United States, but will be a step backwards for our entire nation."

    CEO Satya Nadella wrote on his LinkedIn page: "We care deeply about the DREAMers who work at Microsoft and fully support them. We will always stand for diversity and economic opportunity for everyone. It is core to who we are at Microsoft and I believe it is core to what America is.""

    Well if Brad Smith and Satya Nadella say so, who are we plebs to argue?

  6. Stevie

    Bah!

    When asked for a quote, Ken Paxton said "glug"!

  7. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Windows

    Rich CEOs are the new moral guides! Engage laugh track!!

    "Your pension schemes and your medicart will be HURT!!!"

    HA HA HA HA HA.

    This is coming from golden parachuters, tax-squirrelers (not that there is anything wrong with that but one should not be hypocritical) and H1B Visa exploiters probably not batting an eye when the US starts yet another 20-year war and prints money for bailouts, subsidies and tech economy liftups.

    I hope the honorable Bong and Garland of Flowers were at least cos-signatories of this particular peice of cuckery.

  8. W4YBO

    What will the next president do?

    The internal effects of a mutable policy are still more calamitous. It poisons the blessing of liberty itself. It will be of little avail to the people, that the laws are made by men of their own choice, if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if they be repealed or revised before they are promulgated, or undergo such incessant changes that no man, who knows what the law is to-day, can guess what it will be to-morrow. Law is defined to be a rule of action; but how can that be a rule, which is little known, and less fixed?

    The Federalist No. 62 James Madison (Publius)

    The executive branch is supposed to enforce the laws that the legislative branch passes.

    1. veti Silver badge

      Re: What will the next president do?

      Not quite. The executive branch is supposed to apply the laws that the legislative branch passes. It's a subtle difference, between the executive as a purely passive agent of the legislature, and the executive as an active, independent agent of - something else. (E.g. "The people".)

      The laws have passed the point of being too voluminous to read and too incoherent to understand - they passed that long before most of us were born. They are also too expensive to be enforced. So the executive branch has to make its own judgments about how to prioritise different laws.

      This is by design, the legislative branch passed the laws they did only because they knew this flexibility would be left open. But before you blame them, remember that they were only doing what their constituents pressured them to do; and if they'd attempted to write better laws, they'd probably have been voted out in favour of someone who didn't insist on asking the embarrassing or uncomfortable questions.

      I don't know much about Madison, but I'm always suspicious of people who use the word "liberty". "Liberty" is a word people use to send others to the guillotine. If you actually want them to be free, you talk about "freedom".

      1. W4YBO

        Re: What will the next president do?

        Not quite. Article II, final clause of section 3 of the US Constitution - he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.

        Frankly, I'd composed a couple of paragraphs defending Madison when I realized; Silly me! The guy's writing stands on its own after two-hundred plus years. I doubt that either Veti or W4YBO will have any writing that will be referred to two-hundred years hence.

      2. JEDIDIAH
        Linux

        Re: What will the next president do?

        It takes far more than shifting priorities at the Migra to create a condition where undocumented aliens are able to work at Microsoft or are immune from deportation.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Can't properly tax the rich or corporations, but you can deport kids. What a hate filled shallow country you've become. A lot like us in the UK.

  10. veti Silver badge

    Personally I'm all for sending the DREAMers back, because it's the logical extension of Trump's "policies" and it will help more people to see how indescribably vile the man really is. It'd also be a big boost for the Mexican economy, and a big hit to America's, thus doing some long-overdue levelling between the two

    But "800,000 children born in the US to illegal parents" are surely protected by the 14th amendment. They're citizens, end of story.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Then and now...

    Sure, America was founded on immigrants. But the whole 'immigrant definition' has changed over the years. The Internet was also once a place where cyberbullying and online harassment meant something a "little" different than merely sharing your disagreement with someone else. Yet according to some people these days merely stating that "I think you're wrong" is parallel to online harassment. Others even take this a whole lot further by spreading plain out lies and halt-truths about heated subjects, and when they get called out for that they immediately switch to a victim role. Now all of a sudden they get attacked because of who they are, obviously not for what they were saying.

    In my opinion this also applies here.

    Sure, deporting children sounds horrific, I totally agree with that. But it's also a fact that plenty of people will easily use children as a means to further their own goals.

    Would you, in your right mind, knowingly and willingly conceive children even if you know up front that you might not be able to support them because your status in the country you're in is uncertain? Would anyone in their right mind do that? Yet that is what you're often dealing with here...

    People who have a foreigner status, who know that their stay is temporary at best and definitely not permanent yet still chose themselves to get children. Should that be a reason for a pardon and let the whole family stay? There are plenty of people who use this as a means to enforce a legal status. And once you give in you can rest assured that you'll get plenty more.

    Despicable to deport children? Sure, I myself am also uneasy about the whole thing. But what does that tell us about people who willingly and knowingly take on the responsibility to raise children even though they can clearly know up front that they won't be able to support them?

    That is the question most people are unwilling to ask themselves.

    It's not fair towards the children, but it's not the government you should be blaming but their parents.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Then and now...

      I disagree for the simple reason that you cannot control who gets to procreate and who does not. Not yet at least...

    2. handleoclast

      Re: Then and now...

      Your argument would be more persuasive but for one little fact. The US does not have a health system where those living in poverty can get access to cheap, effective contraception. Yes, there are charitable organizations, but in certain parts of the US (the ones dominated by the religious far-right), they have difficulty operating.

      When you're so poor that most pleasures are beyond your means, abstinence doesn't seem very appealing.

      It doesn't help that most of those affected are from Mexico and therefore most likely Catholic.

      So yes, the government and the Pope are at least as much to blame as the parents themselves.

      1. JEDIDIAH
        Mushroom

        Re: Then and now...

        You mean that there is no MEDICAID?

        Sure. What other tall tales do you want to tell?

        Liberals are funny. They whine about socialized medicine and then conveniently forget about the government programs we already have.

  12. ThePhantom

    "immigrant children born in the United States"

    Um, no. The phrase should be "illegal immigrant children smuggled into the United States by their illegal immigrant parents."

  13. inmypjs Silver badge

    "Our economy would lose $460.3bn from the national GDP"

    Don't suppose they ever thought Mexico might like that GDP back - thieving racist bastards.

  14. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    Texas storm recovery

    Isn't that going to be terribly expensive if all the construction is being done by New England craftsmen when you have got rid of all the immigrant labor?

    1. oldcoder

      Re: Texas storm recovery

      It certainly will be expensive.

      More so due to the substandard construction done by companies owned by Trump.

      They won't even pay their suppliers for the materials...

  15. Bob Rocket

    1. 'his plan to remove legal protections from immigrant children born in the United States.'

    and

    2. 'that threaten the future of young undocumented immigrants brought to America as children'

    are two different things.

    Children born on US soil are US Nationals, depending on the country of origin of the parents, the child may have dual nationality, if the parents are deported the child may accompany them but is free to return to the US at any time.

    Children brought to the US are not US Nationals.

    There are legal methods for non-US Nationals to be allowed to live, work and be naturalised in the US, why would anybody use the legal methods if all you have to do is slip over the border and keep your head down for a while.

    All illegal immigrants (whatever their age) should be deported on the day they are caught, to do otherwise encourages others to try their luck.

  16. IGnatius T Foobar

    DACA bad. MAGA good.

    Ignore the hate coming from the political left who assume everything President Trump does is racist. The man does not have a racist bone in his body. Look at the diversity of the people he is working with and for in Texas right now. He is a compassionate man who loves everyone.

    President Trump is against *illegal immigration*, nothing more, nothing less. He doesn't care about a person's ethnicity, he cares about whether they are in the country legally or if they have committed the *crime* of crossing the border without permission.

    Why does Big Tech have an opinion? Simple: they want cheap labor. Anyone who is employed in the United States (including *legal* immigrants) is opposed to loose enforcement of immigration law which allows Big Tech (and others) to have a cheap supply of what is basically slave labor instead of hiring American citizens at American wages.

    1. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: DACA bad. MAGA good.

      "The man does not have a racist bone in his body."
      I would have thought refusing to rent apartments to negroes and Puerto Ricans was pretty racist.

      1. oldcoder

        Re: DACA bad. MAGA good.

        Not mentioning pardoning racists, and promoting the white supremacists when they murder people.

  17. Cranky_Yank
    WTF?

    This is about the DACA; these are some facts

    Avg DACA recipient is 26 & came to US at age 6

    91% are employed

    100% have no criminal record

    They pay $500 to renew every 2 yrs ($800M)

    1. inmypjs Silver badge

      Re: This is about the DACA; these are some facts

      "these are some facts"

      Think you misspelt bullshit. Facts obtained from people claiming to be dreamers who chose to fill in an online survey. None of whom admitted to having a criminal record - what a surprise.

      Elsewhere I read the unemployment rate of dreamers is a bit over 40%.

    2. JEDIDIAH
      Devil

      Re: This is about the DACA; these are some facts

      So NOT children then? So everyone can put away their "but think of the children" branded violins.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Big Tech slams Trump on plan to enforce US immigration law properly because Obama wouldn't...

    ...makes for a far more accurate but less click-friendly headline, doesn't it?

    1. shawnfromnh

      Re: Big Tech slams Trump on plan to enforce US immigration law properly because Obama wouldn't...

      But Obama was a crappy president who just knew how to give speeches well and kiss every minority group on a pedestal and say screw the majority. Screw the illegals, they lower the overall labor wages in areas and take up housing and their kids cost taxpayers because they all need to go to school and that is thousands per year per student. If they were all gone including the criminal gang members the US would be so much better off financially it isn't even funny when you look at the big picture. As for agriculture just give out green cards and when they don't show up to go home then put out a warrant and bust their asses instead of the Liberals just ignoring the problem till it's many millions and not thousands that have to be rounded up.

      1. Public Citizen

        Re: Big Tech slams Trump on plan to enforce US immigration law properly because Obama wouldn't...

        In the 1950s and early '60s there was a program for seasonal agricultural workers called "The Brasero Program" the farmers got their cheap seasonal labor, the Mexican Workers got money for labor and then went home.

        Everyone involved received a benefit and the laws were obeyed. Things started going off the rails durring the Johnson Administration, in this and many other areas of US society.

  19. shawnfromnh

    We're going to lose all this money BILLIONS in GDP. OMG so you're not going to hire new people to those positions when your workers are deported. That's a bold move leaving that important position empty and losing all that money. These liberal companies spout such bullshit its unbelievable like the Social Security won't be made up by their replacements or the taxes. Liberals here in the US sure love to lie or tell huge half truths, sure that money would go missing if no one else got hired but I seriously doubt that'll happen if it'll cost these tech companies money. Though they will be empty positions for a while since companies hire asshole companies to go over applications/resumes for them and those companies take their sweet time. If these companies actually need these positions so much as they claim then they'll fill them within the month but I think they're full of shit myself and just want to make a statement to make Trump look bad but he just donated in his own cash a million to hurricane victims and the networks are making it look like he's up to something but this is normal behavior for him by just looking at his past. I love how companies just think they can get into politics and they won't lose one conservative customer even though a few companies can now say they lost a lot of business for running their stupid yaps about something they should just STFU about.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Learn fucking "punctuation" then you my have a valid rant.

  20. Winkypop Silver badge
    FAIL

    I've read some bombastic drivel in this thread

    But saying Obama is/was worse than Trump is just too far.

    Trump has created his own category of poor performance.

    He stands alone, proudly atop Mount Fail.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Such caring CEO's

    and here I thought CEO's only cared about maximizing profits for their shareholders, I didn't realize what swell, caring folks they really were. I had foolishly assumed they supported DACA to increase the labour pool and drive down wages to justify their $89M USD annual compensation. Thanks to the author for correcting my misguidance here.

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