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back to article 70% of Windows 10 users are totally happy with our big telemetry slurp, beams Microsoft

Microsoft claims seven out of ten Windows 10 users are happy with Redmond gulping loads of telemetry from their computers – which isn't that astounding when you realize it's a default option. In other words, 30 per cent of people have found the switch to turn it off, and the rest haven't, don't realize it's there, or are …

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        1. IsJustabloke
          Reply Icon
          Meh

          Re: I need Adobe Photoshop and Lightroom

          "I am not sure there is anything other than GIMP to replace Photoshop "

          GIMP is not even close to being a replacement for photoshop.

          yes, there are alternatives to lightroom and photoshop but nothing integrates with my website or social media channels as well as lightroom. I can publish directly from LIghtroom into my portfolio, dropbox, facebook, instagram, twitter, I don't need to create multiple jpeg copies of any given image, I simply publish the raw files using lightroom, they are converted to the correct format on the fly.

          This is such a huge advantage over everything else. all my images are contained within a single environment and greatly simplfies my workflow.

          1 1 Reply
      2. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

        If you don't like what's offered for free, you're perfectly within your rights to go on paying a single company to 'safeguard' ALL of your data.

        Or you could stop expecting the community to service your niche use case for free and pay to for features that you need to run your business on. Talking to people about free software is like dealing with primary school children sometimes. [1]

        FFS, how many times do we need to say it. Free, as in speech. Not beer.

        [1] - No. I'm not going near the "open-source" weasel words.

        0 0 Reply
      3. roknich
        Reply Icon

        Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

        Try GIMP - it also works on Windows so you can try it out, but it works better and has more features on Linux. gimp.org

        1 0 Reply
    2. BobChip
      Reply Icon
      Linux

      Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

      Hi David. I'm curious. Why did you buy a laptop with Win 10 pre-loaded, when there are bare machines available out there? I quite understand your wanting to use Linux, but why pay the Microsoft tax on the way there?

      That would stick in my throat.

      2 0 Reply
      1. Updraft102
        Reply Icon

        Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

        "Why did you buy a laptop with Win 10 pre-loaded, when there are bare machines available out there? I quite understand your wanting to use Linux, but why pay the Microsoft tax on the way there?"

        The crapware that comes on nearly all new PCs offsets the Microsoft tax and (at least in one case) partially subsidizes the cost of the hardware.

        Dell responded to customer demand and started releasing one of its laptops pre-configured with one of the Linux flavors some years ago. The customers were delighted, but only until they saw that the Linux-equipped model cost more, not less, than the standard Windows version. Why, the potential buyers demanded to know, was the version without the "MS tax" more expensive than the one with the tax?

        Dell's explanation was that the Linux version was "clean," and thus Dell was not getting paid by every crapware manufacturer out there. Those trial versions of crap you don't want don't just appear there at random; they're put there because someone paid Dell to put them there. According to Dell, the sum total of all of the money they receive for each PC's worth of crapware more than covers the cost of the Windows license.

        Linux users get the best deal on a crapware-laden PC (as compared to one sold with no OS). They get the benefit of the price subsidy, but they don't have to actually deal with the crapware, as it gets immediately wiped. Setting Linux up on such a machine is no harder than on one offered bare.

        Windows users are the ones who have to deal with trying to uninstall all that crap, hoping that it actually uninstalls cleanly and leaves the system running smoothly (or else having to wipe and install Windows cleanly, which some people do).

        In addition, if you ever want to sell the PC, having the Windows license can be a benefit; your buyer is more likely to be a Windows user than a Linux one.

        The selection of machines available bare is also extremely limited compared to those with Windows-- and given the poor direction laptop design has taken lately (as I see it), just being able to find one model I am completely happy with would be a miracle, let alone finding one that I am happy with AND that is offered bare.

        9 0 Reply
        1. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

          > Dell responded to customer demand and started releasing one of its laptops pre-configured with one of the Linux flavors some years ago. The customers were delighted, but only until they saw that the Linux-equipped model cost more, not less, than the standard Windows version.

          Interesting. I buy Dell OptiPlex desktops many dozens at a time, directly from Dell with Ubuntu instead of Windows. Typically shaves about 10% off the order cost. And yes, we use Ubuntu on them in production.

          It's sad that most corporates pay for Windows included with their new PCs, then pay for it again under their enterprise license agreements.

          3 1 Reply
          1. TheVogon
            Reply Icon

            Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

            "they saw that the Linux-equipped model cost more, not less, than the standard Windows version."

            A relative worked for Dell and he tells me there were three reasons for that with systems targetted at consumers - a) Linux got more support calls - that might not be what you would expect but apparently was the case, b) it costs X to build, manage, release drivers for and update an OS image and this cost was washed across a relatively low number of systems with Linux, and c) consumer Pcs with Windows on have crapware installed that subsidises the cost....

            1 3 Reply
          2. TheVogon
            Reply Icon

            Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

            "It's sad that most corporates pay for Windows included with their new PCs, then pay for it again under their enterprise license agreements."

            No they don't. You get a specific discount to cover Pcs that come with an OEM license on your ELA.

            0 2 Reply
            1. Anonymous Coward
              Reply Icon
              Anonymous Coward

              'It's sad that most corporates pay for Windows included '

              We do buy PCs without any operating system preinstalled. Then install licenses from our license pools (Windows, RedHat, VMWare...)

              B2B sales channels offer them. It's just the consumer sales channels that make harder finding models sold without a pre-installed OS, but those who sell "assembled" desktops.

              Which makes me wonder how many here really work in a business environment, and how many write just knowing what their local mall sells.

              1 0 Reply
          3. Anonymous Coward
            Reply Icon
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

            "I buy Dell OptiPlex desktops many dozens at a time, directly from Dell with Ubuntu instead of Windows. Typically shaves about 10% off the order cost. And yes, we use Ubuntu on them in production."

            But then you do need to pay $150 a year / PC for Ubuntu support with a minimum quantity of 50. Which over any time period of more than a few years costs you more than Windows 10 + Software Assurance + the saving on the desktop. I do appreciate that obviously you didn't want Windows, but it's not quite as great as you made it sound!

            0 3 Reply
            1. Anonymous Coward
              Reply Icon
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

              > But then you do need to pay $150 a year / PC for Ubuntu support with a minimum quantity of 50. Which over any time period of more than a few years costs you more than Windows 10 + Software Assurance + the saving on the desktop.

              Incorrect - we don't need to pay anything in ongoing support costs. If we did then we don't need to pay for everything anyway as just the base support price to cover a small hardware sample in the lab is more than sufficient to reproduce any issues - the fixes can then be distributed more widely. We haven't actually needed to do that yet though, but the option is there if needed. There are also other commercial support options other then Canonical.

              I wasn't pitching TCO either - that's a different issue and something that's not simple to quantify or compare. I'm just merely stating that the purchase cost is slightly lower, not higher as some folks suggested above.

              3 0 Reply
          4. Col_Panek
            Reply Icon

            Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

            "Linux-equipped model cost more, not less, than the standard Windows version..."

            Around these parts y'all can get Linux Dells for $50 less than Windows. One of the few perks for living in 'Murica.

            0 0 Reply

      2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. ad47uk
      Reply Icon

      Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

      The problem here is that as much as I like Linux, the software is not there and even if there is software to do a task, it is not always that good.

      Blender is great if you are into 3D and there are some good audio software, but sadly Linux lacks on Video editing.

      I do have Linux on my laptop and it is fine for what I use that for.

      1 0 Reply
      1. Chemist
        Reply Icon

        Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

        "but sadly Linux lacks on Video editing."

        kdenlive

        4 1 Reply
      2. JimboSmith Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

        but sadly Linux lacks on Video editing.

        Take a long look at this article

        theregister.co.uk/2015/12/26/linux_video_editors

        3 0 Reply
        1. roknich
          Reply Icon

          Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

          If you really understand video editing, and your hardware, linux is tops for video editing, but yes, it's a learning process.

          1 0 Reply
      3. InNY
        Reply Icon

        Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

        Shortcut

        KdenLive

        Open Broadcast Studio (limited editing, but still it is there)

        To name but three of the myriad of video editors available on the Linux platform.

        2 0 Reply
        1. Not That Andrew
          Reply Icon

          Re: Video Editing

          OBS is streaming software not a video editor

          KdenLive is probably an OK alternative to Windows Movie Maker

          As far as I'm aware the only NLE for Linux is Cinelerra, and that's a bitch to set up and get running, crashes constantly and has an even more obtuse interface than GIMP used to. I don't think is still being developed either.

          1 2 Reply
          1. Chemist
            Reply Icon

            Re: Video Editing

            "As far as I'm aware the only NLE for Linux is Cinelerra,"

            That's interesting as to quote the Kdenlive manual : "Kdenlive is an acronym for KDE Non-Linear Video Editor "

            https://userbase.kde.org/Kdenlive/Manual

            1 1 Reply
            1. Anonymous Coward
              Reply Icon
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Video Editing

              Windows Movie Maker too is non linear, but it's still very limited, and good for some amateurish video. kdenlive is more or less at the same level.

              When the main editing suites are from Avid, DaVinci, Adobe and Apple, AFAIK only DaVinci is supported on Linux, but only on very specific certified hardware.

              Those are the tools you will find in pro environment. Other tools mey be OK for your personal or indy projects, but do not expect them to be used where money matters.

              1 2 Reply
              1. Chemist
                Reply Icon

                Re: Video Editing

                "Those are the tools you will find in pro environment. Other tools mey be OK for your personal or indy projects, but do not expect them to be used where money matters."

                I didn't realise that the topic discussed in this sub-thread was money. I thought it was video software for Linux.

                So, professional video software then - well let's guess what Pixar and Dreamworks use for their operating system.

                <hint :One thing that all of the larger studios have in common is they use Linux as their operating system. >

                2 1 Reply
                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Reply Icon
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Video Editing

                  Pixar and other 3D animation studios develop their own software, and they don't have video footage taken with cameras, they have just rendered images. Linux clusters for such tasks make sense.

                  But what they use for the final editing? For example, Disney for 'the Force awakens' used Avid tools. I'm sure most of the CGI rendering has been done on Linux, but the editing has been done on Avid, and that means Apple or Windows.

                  Editing video footage shot with cameras is a different job. And like any professional job, money matters. Subpar tools with subpar support for cameras and editing devices are not what you're looking for. The price for the tools are just a small fraction of the overall expenses, but the time wasted to achieve the desired result can be very, very expensive.

                  Take a trip, if you like, to the Canon new Burbank facility, where movie makers can test their equipment and edit on the tools their used to, and see what's in use.

                  1 2 Reply
    4. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

      Indeedy. New PC purchasing process...

      1. buy PC

      2. swap out SDD/HDD for a blank SSD or hybrid

      3. fix brain-dead UEFI defaults

      4. install Linux Mint (and donate $)

      5. install commercial WINE version for better gaming support

      6. install Windows <10 VM for "those special cases" (ie: corporate teleworking).

      7. shelve original drive in case you need a warranty claim.

      Net number of times need to worry about the "telemetry" == 0.

      5 0 Reply
      1. EVMonster
        Reply Icon

        Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

        8. Never be able to do any useful work.

        9. Hide behind the sofa (you must have done something bad to be worried about your data being slurped)

        Listen up Linux punks.

        I have three PCs on my desk two Windows 10 and one Linux Mint. I am an IT professional and never play games and I do not do video processing either. Every time a new distro airs I try it 'cos I would love any distro to be useable. I have tried them all and they are not useable on any level. If you can get them installed they are all like going back twenty years and generally have an amateur feel. On the few occasions I have suggested Linux to customers they have all swapped back to Windows PDQ.

        I have no axe to grind with Linux but please please stop bleating on about Linux as if it is a rival to Windows, IT AIN'T and will never be.

        The down vote button is the one on the right (just to help Linux punks find it)

        0 5 Reply
        1. Chemist
          Reply Icon

          Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

          @ EVMonster

          Thank you for joining the Register today . (You really, (no really ) would not believe how many Linux bashers are like you) Glad you are a IT professional?. I've been using Linux since ~1995, quite a lot of the time professionally with a major pharma ( but there again I'm NOT an IT professional) just a user.

          (Oh,please !!)

          Why do you have a Mint desktop ?

          2 1 Reply
    5. eldakka
      Reply Icon

      Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

      Did you return the unused license to Microsoft as per their shrinkwrap agreement and get a refund?

      2 0 Reply
    6. BlackKnight(markb)
      Reply Icon

      Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

      Unfortunately for those of us that partake in the pastime known as "gaming" the pengiuns lagging behind in driver and software support. should they catch up i'll happily swap teams and cop an earful for "making the darn computer more complicated"

      1 0 Reply
  2. Novex

    Still not going there

    Win 10 is currently what I have to use at work, and to be honest, as an OS it works fine despite the schizophrenia that is control panel (two different places, still?)

    But on my own PCs (personal or business) I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. The data collection policies of Microsoft are just too much like malware. Give me the option to completely turn it off, and proveably so, and to be able to permanently reject unwanted updates, and I'd happily reconsider.

    Until then it's Linux Mint, and VMs with older MS OSes (if only I could get the updates to install properly on them without 100% svchost.exe usage for days on end).

    As for the 70% accepting full telemetry, I doubt many of them even know that they're sending data to MS. Of those that do and keep the setting at maximum, they've probably bought into the Cortana thing, which requires way too much personal data to be shared with MS in order for it to work. Most people would probably be very uncomfortable with it if they really knew just where the data had to go in order for Cortana to work.

    74 8 Reply
    1. TReko
      Reply Icon

      Re: Still not going there

      Windows 7 and 8 updates now contain telemetry - not as much as Windows 10 though.

      13 4 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Still not going there

        "Windows 7 and 8 updates now contain telemetry - not as much as Windows 10 though."

        Anyone smart enough to stop their system being "upgraded" to M$ Spyware10 should also have been smart enough to block the attempts to port the spyware onto Win7 - and possibly Win8.

        As for the 70% being fine, the word you are looking for is sheeple; even when you tell them how much of their private data M$ is slurping, they either dont care, or dont believe you; besides, they have already given most of it to FarceBook, Twatter, and InstantGran.

        The latest Win10 saga is that it is deleting and/or blocking programs without warning; several complaints every week on the LOTRO forums.

        13 5 Reply
      2. ad47uk
        Reply Icon

        Re: Still not going there

        Easy enough to stop it on Windows 7 and 8, but it is integrated into Windows 10. there is software that say they stop it on windows 10, but I wonder if they really do.

        2 0 Reply
    2. Ken Hagan Gold badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Still not going there

      "Win 10 is currently what I have to use at work ..."

      Me too. Speaking as a developer, there are an infinite number of non-default configurations that we can't test against but there is one default configuration that we can test against and if we don't then we look a bit foolish if that's a configuration that doesn't work. So all my test systems stick largely to the defaults. They also have no personal data on them, (and no source code, as it happens) so if MS want to slurp then there is nothing for them to find except for usage patterns that will skew their stats towards "None of your newly-introduced features are getting *any* usage whatsoever.".

      So I am "several" of the 70%, despite switching the telemetry off on the systems I actually care about.

      16 0 Reply
    3. Joe User
      Reply Icon

      Re: Still not going there

      Novex: "Until then it's Linux Mint, and VMs with older MS OSes (if only I could get the updates to install properly on them without 100% svchost.exe usage for days on end)."

      If you're running Windows 7 in that VM, give Windows Quick Patch a try:

      https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/fixed-windows-7-sp1-never-ends-searching-for-updates.221756/

      1 0 Reply
  3. Tim Seventh

    29% Windows users

    reported to Microsoft about how unhappy they are with the slurp in Windows 10. The remaining PC users pulled out the Windows 10 hard drive and directly threw it out the Window without reporting.

    17 4 Reply
    1. Don Dumb
      Reply Icon

      Re: 29% Windows users

      If Microsoft were really confident that people are happy with telemetry, they would have it *off* by default. Because people would be happy to turn it on right?

      68 2 Reply
    2. Infernoz Bronze badge
      Reply Icon
      Alert

      Re: 29% Windows users

      And some of us use microsoft-spying killer-software and a lot of router-firewall, domain-name, blocking-rules, ha!

      13 2 Reply
      1. ad47uk
        Reply Icon

        Re: 29% Windows users

        But do they work?

        0 0 Reply
    3. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Devil

      Re: 29% Windows users

      29% of Windows users probably have non-linear minds, and as such, can't be so easily HERDED like the other 70%. Except for the remaining 1%, who are hackers and IT pros, that threw away the Win-10-nic license for something SANE.

      (this is based on the assumption that ~1/3 of the population are non-linear-minded "creative/hunter" types, and the other ~2/3 are linear-minded "farmer" types - the percentages based on centuries of natural selection because farming is a more effective means of getting food than hunting/gathering, though the creative/hunter types are highly ADAPTABLE and as such fill _OTHER_ important roles in society like craftsmanship and ranching and military/police, and thus the relative percentages of these "classifications" of thinking patterns, either linear time-based 'farmer' thinking, or non-linear now-based 'creative/hunter' thinking - yeah, it's an old theory, the 'hunter/farmer' concept, but it works and explains a lot)

      8 5 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Joke

        Re: 29% Windows users

        > this is based on the assumption that

        Just need a gender assumption in there for the full google employee of the month award for gratuitous misdirection by science*

        (Note icon...)

        *-acknowledgement: D. Adams.

        6 0 Reply
    4. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 29% Windows users

      They should also all those who didn't upgrade for exactly the slurp features...

      2 0 Reply
    5. JohnG
      Reply Icon

      Re: 29% Windows users

      My experience with atechnical Windows 10 users is that they are typically blissfully unaware of Microsoft's data grabbing. A few will have chosen to turn off some options such that stop certain data being sent and will assume (wrongy) that their data is then secure. IMO, the majority of Microsoft's 70% are oblivious to the whole issue.

      3 0 Reply
  4. BeerTokens

    Irony

    The Irony is without collecting this data they wouldn't be able to tell us how many installs had requested less data to be slurped.

    What about those win10 installs that never hit the interwebs, or as some other posters have noted where a n other os is installed.

    13 3 Reply
  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    MSFT and Facebook

    The kings of slurp, way worse than Apple or Google, who are both transparent with what's collected and honest about rentention. I did a paper on some tests I did about data deletion and it's after affects, it was crystal clear that Google and Apple did the right thing and truly forgot me, but Facebook and Microsoft didn't. Even 3 years later, Facebook data is still retained about me, my IP address, and people I may know.. Microsoft are still using things it knew about me for advertising.

    31 4 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: MSFT and Facebook

      Google does seem more competent than MS with regards to slurping, so it's no wonder they're better at pretending they've forgotten you.

      9 6 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: MSFT and Facebook

        Then they are doing it very well, as there is a huge difference between targeted advertising from my "known" profile and the untargetted data from my deleted profile data.

        I think more likely, the Internet told you that Google are the kings of search and that they must have been dishonest to get to that place, which is totally untrue, as the real data suggests they do exactly what their privacy policy says they do.

        1 0 Reply
        1. Jonathan 27
          Reply Icon

          Re: MSFT and Facebook

          The Google option not to serve targeted ads does just that, they still slurp all your data all the time. I don't really see much practical difference, they still have all your data.

          1 0 Reply
    2. Elmer Phud
      Reply Icon

      Re: MSFT and Facebook

      ISTR that data collection has been around a hell of a lot longer than either FaceAche or Microsoft or Google or or or . . .

      It would be preferable if you could name ALL the guilty parties, thanks love.

      1 4 Reply
      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: MSFT and Facebook

        "It would be preferable if you could name ALL the guilty parties"

        Unfortunately the margin isn't big enough.

        5 0 Reply
    3. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: MSFT and Facebook

      "way worse than Apple or Google, who are both transparent with what's collected and honest about rentention"

      LOL, Google are the king of slurp and way way worse than Microsoft for what they use your data for.

      2 4 Reply

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