back to article Two-thirds of TV Licensing prosecutions at one London court targeted women

Two-thirds of TV Licensing prosecutions in a London court were brought against women, according to an exclusive analysis of court data by The Register. We analysed three months of listings data from the City of London Magistrates’ Court in the UK. Of the 62 individual defendants who appeared in court charged with not paying …

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        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: re: End this insanely illiberal tax now.

          "Liberal leaning" Correct, as in neoliberal right-leaning.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Thumb Up

          Re: re: End this insanely illiberal tax now.

          Pardon me, but the BBC is CLEARLY biased. It is incredibly liberal leaning.

          Right wing people complain vociferously about the BBC being left wing or "liberal". e.g. http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2016-10-03/bbc-should-admit-to-its-liberal-bias-and-introduce-a-right-wing-hour-to-radio-4-says-david-baddiel

          Left wing people complain vociferously about the BBC being right wing. e.g. http://www.thecanary.co/2016/10/31/bbcs-bias-obvious-origin-groundbreaking-academic-just-brought-light-video/

          Since both sides complain equally stridently, I can't help feeling that the BBC's balance must be about right.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: BBC

            <del>BBC's balance about right</del>

            er. . . but what about the Gap Propaganda. . . what about the Authoritarian Statism . . .all the Richard Whiteley's. . .

            /rants for another 94 paragraphs

            sigh

          2. Eddy Ito

            Re: re: End this insanely illiberal tax now.

            That assumes a simple left - right model. It's perfectly feasible that the BBC could be economically statist and personally liberal or economically liberal and personally statist. Given it's a government corporation it's somewhat unlikely to be the latter and more probably the former with some personal statism sprinkled in here and there.

          3. Frumious Bandersnatch

            Re: re: End this insanely illiberal tax now.

            > Since both sides complain equally stridently

            Seems logical. It reminds me of the quote (not sure from who) that goes something like "The thing about being in the middle of the road is that you'll get knocked down by traffic coming from both sides"

        3. MikeGrant
          FAIL

          Re: re: End this insanely illiberal tax now.

          FFS. Nobody's taping your eyelids open and forcing you to watch the communistic propaganda of the BBC.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @sabroni Re: re: End this insanely illiberal tax now.

        The BBC chose to contract Capita. There is no government requirement that capita be involved in collection activities.

      2. TheTick

        Re: re: End this insanely illiberal tax now.

        "I pay tax towards all sorts of services that I don't currently use, that doesn't make those taxes illiberal."

        Actually all taxes are illiberal so perhaps I should just have stated "End this f*cking tax now!"

  1. DavCrav

    Men are 22 times as likely as women to be imprisoned. We should do something to correct this imbalance.

    Or something.

    1. sabroni Silver badge

      We should do something to correct this imbalance.

      Stop committing crimes?

      1. SundogUK Silver badge

        Re: We should do something to correct this imbalance.

        Like all these women watching TV without a license...

    2. MyffyW Silver badge

      Take Estrogen? On the other hand scratch that, the world does not need any more hot flushes.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Estrogen will just makes them grow breasts along with other undesirable effects. See Alan Turing for a good example of why this is not a good idea.

        Chemical castration by means of reducing androgens, might work on the other hand. But I don't really believe in 'toxic masculinity'.

    3. MonkeyCee

      "Men are 22 times as likely as women to be imprisoned. We should do something to correct this imbalance."

      Perhaps men should stop committing the majority of crime. 98% convicted rapists are men. Roughly 80% of those convicted of assault, burglary, robbery and domestic violence are male. Same for vehicular theft, vandalism and handling stolen property.

      White collar crimes are a bit more equal, although men are usually more likely (60-40) to have been convicted off them. Embezzlement, fraud that sort of thing.

      That women generally get lighter sentences is an issue, but it's not enough to explain the differences in prison population.

      As for the telly licence convictions, partially due to women being less likely to tell a person at their door to fuck off. Which tends to be my default if they are trying to sell anything.

      I've let the cops in when they ask nicely, without a court order, but only because I'd rather they didn't decide I was uncooperative.

      1. Oliver Mayes

        "98% convicted rapists are men"

        Because most courts refuse to accept that it's possible for a woman to rape a man. It normally gets reduced to assault instead.

        1. not.known@this.address
          Headmaster

          "Because most courts refuse to accept that it's possible for a woman to rape a man."

          The legal definition of rape is "penetration of the v*g*n*by the p*n*s". So, legally speaking, it really is impossible for a woman to rape a man (asterisked to avoid the draconian Internet filter where I work).

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            The legal definition needs to catch up with the real world.

          2. Ogi

            >>"Because most courts refuse to accept that it's possible for a woman to rape a man.

            >The legal definition of rape is "penetration of the v*g*n*by the p*n*s". So, legally speaking, it really is impossible for a woman to rape a man (asterisked to avoid the draconian Internet filter where I work).

            Yes, I seem to remember hearing about similar (my ex was a lawyer). Due to the definition, a lot of female/female rapes are not classed as rape but sexual assault, even if forced penetration occured.

            > 98% convicted rapists are men.

            It does make me wonder though, if women are incapable of rape due to missing the required equipment to rape (by legal definition), what on earth did the 2% non-men do to be convicted of rape? Or does that refer to those of a different "gender identity" in a male body?

          3. Hollerithevo

            Rape as defined

            Yes, rape cannot 'officially' happen between two men or two women. Forcible, unwanted entry by body parts or other things can be made, but it is assault, not rape. In a sense, 'rape' is an incredibly old-fashioned view of a crime. Assault is assault is assault.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Rape as defined

              "Assault by penetration"

              Penalty: The offence is indictable only with maximum penalty of life imprisonment.

              Code for Crown Prosecutors - considerations

              This offence is in essence similar to rape and a prosecution is almost certainly required in the public interest.

              DPP: Rape and Sexual Offences:

              Chapter 2: Sexual Offences Act 2003 - Principal Offences, and

              Sexual Offences Act 1956 - Most commonly charged offences

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: "Assault by penetration"

                We seriously need an "Assault by Engulfing" law to restore equality.

              2. Adam 52 Silver badge

                Re: Rape as defined

                "Assault by penetration

                Penalty: The offence is indictable only with maximum penalty of life imprisonment"

                Thank goodness. One person on the whole thread who actually knows what they're talking about.

                See also:

                http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/2

          4. TheProf

            v*g*n*by the p*n*s

            Vegans pants?

            1. Eddy Ito

              @TheProf

              I think that should be Vogons by the pints

          5. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            "The legal definition of rape is "penetration of the v*g*n*by the p*n*s". "

            There are several possible orifices involved in the legal definition of rape (at least in England and Wales.).

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Equality...

        A giant pink elephant just walked past my window and suggested that women commit as many crimes as men but you don't see many female judges, so a quick sob and a quivering lip means the old duffers on the bench take pity on the miscreant and she gets let off.

        Of course, this could never happen in the real world since we know there's no such thing as giant pink elephants and women are never drunk and disorderly, rude, offensive or violent, they never shoplift or pick pockets, never gouge people's eyes or crack someone's skull with a stiletto heel ...

        1. Hollerithevo

          Re: Equality...

          Do you really think a girlish quivering lip would move 99% of judges these days? Most of the 'old school' judges are as misogynistic as hell, and have you looked at how many judges are women?

        2. strum

          Re: Equality...

          > a quick sob and a quivering lip means the old duffers on the bench take pity on the miscreant and she gets let off

          It's not just the old duffers on the bench. I was a juror in a drugs'n'guns case at the Bailey. The male perps were quickly banged up (and thoroughly deserved to be), but the 21-y-o, tasty totty was 'interviewed' in the detective's back seat for three-quarters of an hour, before going free.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Equality...

          Of course, this could never happen in the real world since we know there's no such thing as giant pink elephants and women ... never carry a Stanley knife in their handbag...

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        >98% convicted rapists are men

        Only a man can commit rape in UK law, so that's a surprisingly low statistic.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Perhaps men should stop committing the majority of crime."

        Whoooosh.......

  2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Capita have just fallen out of the FTSE 100 this quarter. Is it too much to hope it's the start of a long decline in their fortunes? A rapid decline would be too much to hope for.

  3. Solarflare

    How..

    ...does 'x% of people were of y demographic' automatically become 'y demographic are being actively targetted'? Fine, 2/3rds of the (rather small number of) prosecutions were women. What percentage had two legs? If that's 100%, are they 'unfairly tagetting the abled'?

    1. TheTick

      Re: How..

      @Solarflare

      I think there are on average about 150,000 prosecutions a year for the telly tax. It's 10% of all prosecutions in the type of court where this thing is done apparently. It was a while since I saw the story but it's around those numbers as I recall.

      So not a rather small number by any measure.

      1. Solarflare

        Re: How..

        Perhaps I could have been clearer, but I was referring to El Reg's own figures:

        "The Register analysed three months of listings data from the City of London Magistrates’ Court. Of the 62 individual defendants who appeared in court charged with not paying the TV Licence over that period, two-thirds – 42 – were female."

        I wasn't using an annual or total figure or anything. 62 people is a small data set.

        1. PatientOne
          Joke

          Re: How..

          42...

          where have I heard that number before... something significant about that...

          (Yes, just coincidence, but... live, the universe and all that...)

  4. Aristotles slow and dimwitted horse

    Yup. I don't require a TV license, but...

    I'm having this argument with them at the moment and have received the "We're going to start investigation" letter which I promptly shoved in the bin, but only after noting that apparently the only way to "stop the investigation" was to buy a TV licence. Which is a pile of totally incorrect threatening boll**ks as I don't actually need one.

    So... so far I've had one bloke round who I refused entry to. This was after he threatened that if I didn't let him in they would just send more people round. I replied with a reminder to him of my (and his) rights and a fanfare of "bring it on, you'll soon get the message" and that it would allow me to start to build a nice harrassment case against them. He sloped off.

    As a civil collection agency, I categorically refuse to provide my personal details to them or tow their line, and I am very much looking forward to round 2.

    1. Hollerithevo

      Re: Yup. I don't require a TV license, but...

      You are a civil collection agency? Wouldn't you have to toe your own line?

    2. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Re: Yup. I don't require a TV license, but...

      Have you formally revoked their implied right of access to thr land between the pavement and your front door?

      May be worth doing.

      TV Licencing people used to be reasonable, seems that Capita have done their usual :(

    3. Jess

      Re: civil collection agency

      Wrong sort of civil

      It was uncivil letters that that made me decide not to every get a TV licence again. (Though I suspect I would have dropped it eventually anyway).

      When the post office stopped selling licences, it became tricky to buy a monochrome licence. I tried several Paypoints (or whatever they are) and none could sell me a replacement. I was working away from home at the time and realised I didn't actually need one legally, the TV (b & w portable) was laying on its side unplugged and had been for months. (I was happy enough to pay because I used iPlayer a little, but certainly not enough to justify a colour licence).

      I didn't bother renewing, and got a load of letters basically accusing me of being a criminal, they went in the bin, and I gave the TV to my parents for their caravan.

      Had they sent a polite letter, I would have replied explaining the situation and asking where to buy a mono TV licence.

      If anyone ever comes round (that was quite a few years ago, and I have heard nothing, the letters dried up after a couple of years). Then if they are civil, then I will explain the situation, but probably not let them in (unless the house actually happened to be tidy), if not they will get told to leave with no information.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Yup. I don't require a TV license, but...

      "apparently the only way to "stop the investigation" was to buy a TV licence"

      You can go on the TV licensing portal and tell them you don't need a licence. Worked for me - they didn't send any more letters after that - at least for the year or so before I had to get a licence again.

  5. smudge

    Two-thirds of TV Licensing prosecutions in a London court were brought against women

    Our weekly local newspaper in Hertfordshire lists cases from the town's Magistrates Court. I noticed a long time ago that 75% or more prosecuted licence evaders were women, and I often wonder why this should be so.

    Looks as though it may be a widespread phenomenon.

    1. Hans 1
      Holmes

      Re: Two-thirds of TV Licensing prosecutions in a London court were brought against women

      >Looks as though it may be a widespread phenomenon.

      Imagine, you work for Crapita to "enforce" TV license and you have the choice paying a visit to one of these two:

      1. Single woman

      2. Heavy weight boxing champion

      Which of the two would you pick ? Remember, you get commission. It is SO MUCH MORE easier to scare a woman with this crap.

  6. graeme leggett Silver badge

    the Campaign to end the BBC Licence Fee

    From the petition by Caroline Lévesque-Bartlett

    "It doesn't have to be this way:

    - Canada, United States, Australia, Hong Kong, Luxembourg, Monaco and Spain don't have TV licence fees. Presumably its national TV is paid by taxes, in which case it's paid proportionally to each individual's income. "

    Anyone who can't be arsed to research how these countries finance public broadcasting (even if they have to look it up on Wikipedia) and doesn't offer a solution is wasting our time.

    She also seems to be suggesting that instead of those who watch paying, that everyone pays via taxation by the government. But in an earlier paragraph to the petition she says "The nature of the licence fee as a tax could lead to the BBC being manipulated by the government in power with the threat of withholding funds if information damaging to that government was made public" which is contradictory.

    1. Triggerfish

      Re: the Campaign to end the BBC Licence Fee

      You seen the quality of TV in America? Credits, ad break, ten minutes, ad break, quick scene, ad break etc.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: the Campaign to end the BBC Licence Fee

        I don't watch TV in america, and I also don't watch TV in the UK.

        I have no idea about the quality of either.

        I also don't pay for either of them.

        I do keep getting letters from some licencing agency suggesting that I really ought to give it a go though... maybe next year if I find the time.

        1. gnasher729 Silver badge

          Re: the Campaign to end the BBC Licence Fee

          That's why we have Freeview in the UK. You record it, and when you watch it you skip over the adverts. Just a pain when you watch a program live (that is when it is transmitted).

      2. cantankerous swineherd

        Re: the Campaign to end the BBC Licence Fee

        who gives a damn? if TVs crap, don't watch it.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: the Campaign to end the BBC Licence Fee

          "who gives a damn? if TVs crap, don't watch it."

          Who gives a damn? Anyone (like me) who hasn't owned a TV for years, yet still gets a never ending stream of harrassing letters and threats of prosecution.

          1. Richard 12 Silver badge

            Re: the Campaign to end the BBC Licence Fee

            If they are harassing you, prosecute them.

            Seriously. Send them a formal letter demanding that they cease and desist, and then call the police if they come back.

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