back to article Global IPv4 address drought: Seriously, we're done now. We're done

You may have heard this before, but we are really, really running out of public IPv4 addresses. This week, the regional internet registry responsible for Latin America and the Caribbean, LACNIC, announced it has moved to "phase 3" of its plan to dispense with the remaining network addresses, meaning that only companies that …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    How many users actually need a permanent real IPv4 address?

    I have had a Demon one for nearly 15 years and have never needed it for unsolicited incoming requests. Unfortunately the non-business user option - to have a NAT in that ISP's network instead - was discontinued a few years ago.

    It appears that even traditionally peer-to-peer client services are now tending to be distributed via a call to a central server.

    Web hosting seems able to multiplex on a few IP addresses - and then differentiate by the domain name in the request headers.

    1. P. Lee

      >How many users actually need a permanent real IPv4 address?

      Anyone who wants a VPN?

      Part of the call for all these cloud services (gotomypc, onedrive) is the lack of proper infrastructure.

      We need ipv6... and we need decent firewalls. One without the other isn't much use.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Anyone who wants a VPN?"

        Does it always need a permanent IPv4 address for the client? Unless the VPN host is validating against an incoming connection's known IP address - then presumably a login would control access.

        1. Charles 9

          Most VPN scripts (especially OpenVPN) really prefer a fixed point to connect: either an IP or a domain. Otherwise, you're going to be doing jiggerypokery every time your IP gets changed. And this is pretty much a non-starter with a CGN.

          1. Roland6 Silver badge

            >Most VPN scripts (especially OpenVPN) really prefer a fixed point to connect:

            In my experience the key is the fixed point to connect to. With business SSL VPN's (remote client calling in) all that is and should be important is the domain name of the central system, obviously on top of this you can add certificates, RSA keys etc. to enhance authentication, but there really is no need for fixed IP addresses with SSL VPNs.

            With IPsec VPN's yes life is different and having fixed public IP addresses is a requirement.

            However, I do note that many routers whilst supporting a variety of VPN technologies, do tend to keep things very simple and only allow the explicit usage of IP addresses in their VPN configuration.

            1. Charles 9

              Mine (Netgear) let's you input a domain into their script generator, to allow for stuff like Dyn to work even if your IP changes.

  2. Blotto Silver badge
    FAIL

    IPv6 is fundamentally broken

    roll out IPv7 fixing IPv6 and adding greater privacy guards including NAT, and other useful features that will enable many addresses to easily hide behind a single or small group of addresses without the remote party being able to track individuals across connections

    1. TonyHoyle

      Re: IPv6 is fundamentally broken

      That would be ipv6 then.

      Although cripping the network using NAT would be just cutting your hand off to spite your face, given that address randomisation means you're not trackable anyway.

      1. nematoad

        Re: IPv6 is fundamentally broken

        "...just cutting your hand off to spite your face,"

        Nose

        Its "Cutting your nose off to spite your face."

        What does a hand care about a face?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Coat

          Re: IPv6 is fundamentally broken

          "Nose

          Its "Cutting your nose off to spite your face."

          What does a hand care about a face?"

          Face

          What does a face care about a hand?

          You are spiting the face, so it is the face that is caring or not...

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: IPv6 is fundamentally broken

          A hand often has to relay the message to the face because the face isn't always listening. Sort of like NAT.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: IPv6 is fundamentally broken

      Haha, check it out guys. This one wants NAT.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: IPv6 is fundamentally broken

        Yeah. Haha. That would be funny if it weren't so true. NAT is cool and serves a wonderful purpose for those of us with fleets of computers that just need to get to websites to yack on Facebook or watch Youtube. We don't want outside stuff able to get to those computers because there's no need, and NAT fits that bill simply and easily. So figure out a NAT process for IP6 and maybe, just maybe, you'll see more of us hold-outs start moving over. And if you could find a way to restrict IP6 addresses to like 6 octets ( I mean, hell, 4 octets have lasted a long, long time, so imagine if we had 65,535 more of our current Internets...), then we'd all move over, I'm pretty sure. But that would probably mean it's actually IP7 or 8 and all of the IP6 evangelists have been stoned to death because if there's one thing us IP4 holdouts know about you smug IP6 bastards, it's that you will NEVER, EVER ADMIT THERE IS A BETTER WAY or that IP6 is anything less than perfect and the rest of us poor stupid sods are just too fucking stupid to see how wrong we are and that we are IT heretics and Luddites for sticking with something that just fucking works and is simple to comprehend. Not all of us suffer from autism and can calculate IP subnets in our head like Rainman. Some of us are just trying to get our people to Youtube and Facebook and the rest of the Internets with the least amount of fuckery required. And that's what NAT gives us - a simple and comprehensible way to do something that needs doing.

        And now I'm off to take my meds.

        1. Nanashi

          Re: IPv6 is fundamentally broken

          You think NAT blocks connections and provides security, you don't know about DNS and you think that subnetting v4 is easier than v6, and yet you have the nerve to complain about "smug v6 bastards" not listening to you?

          Just for starters, compare v6 addresses:

          2001:db8:42:1::2

          with the pair of addresses you get with NAT in v4:

          213.0.113.42+192.168.1.2

          The v6 is _shorter_. Why are you complaining about shorter? And once you put them in DNS you end up with "google.com" vs "google.com" and the length doesn't even matter.

          This is the reason people aren't listening to you.

          1. sean.fr

            Re: IPv6 is fundamentally broken

            The ip addres can be is several forms

            the compressed 2001:db8:42:1::2

            or

            or the full form

            2001:0DB8:0042:0001:0000:0000:0000:0002

            so it is shorter if you count it funny

            IPv6 is a lot not more bits.

          2. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
            Coat

            Re: IPv6 is fundamentally broken

            2001:db8:42:1::2

            But what the fuck does that mean?

            Maybe it's just that I'm so familiar with IPv4 that it has become easily understandable over many years, or perhaps IPv4 ir simply so simple that I have even been able to explain it to non-techie friends.

            I haven't had the time to investigate IPv6 nor the inclination. With a bit of luck I'll be out of the game before I have to. I suspect I'm not alone in that hope.

            1. sean.fr

              Re: IPv6 is fundamentally broken

              The basic problem is an INTER network problem so it is logical to between the networks and leave the networks untouched. An ISP problem not, not a user problem.

              Apps on internal devices do not send IP addresses, they send to names.

              They expect the IP stack to resolve the name to an IP address and a MAC.

              They do not care if you are using really using ATM or NetBois or MPLS so long as the IP stack is happy.

              If your ISP can couple your ISPs DNS to IPv6-IPv4 NAT, THEY can allocate a temporary IPv4 address to the Ipv6 address and sort it out with NAT at the at ISP. It would be invisable to us. We should allow us to keep the investment in apps, knowhow and hardware. The crappy bit can be regroup into a DNS/Firewal application (1U 19inch rack box) if you do not want the ISP to do it. But they already provide DNS, and are running BGP4 routing, plus a lot of stuff not really in my best interests like logging every url I use for the government, blocking sites banned by the government, throttling if I use SSH in Iran.

              1. Charles 9

                Re: IPv6 is fundamentally broken

                "Apps on internal devices do not send IP addresses, they send to names."

                Actually, ALL IP devices send to numbers. They MUST, as that's all the protocol recognizes. Names get sent to resolvers which return numbers for the app or device to use. But they can still break.

            2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

              Re: IPv6 is fundamentally broken

              "2001:db8:42:1::2

              But what the fuck does that mean?"

              You seriously expect an IP address to mean something? Odd. But let's have a go anyway...

              The 2001:db8 means this is a unicast address with global scope. The equivalent in IPv4-speak is "not in the 224.x.x.x/4 block, and not in 10.x.x.x/8, 172.20.x.x/12, 192.168.x.x/16 or 169.254.x.x/16 either".

              The 42:1 is your network. Short, isn't it? Lucky you. Mine is a few characters longer, but to be honest I can't remember it because there is this thing called DNS so I don't have to. For a SOHO user, the 42.1 is the moral equivalent of the external IP address of your NAT. It is the bit that someone might use to track "you" rather than a particular network adapter that you own.

              The ::2 is your address within that network. It's also short and I assume that someone has deliberately engineered that address because they occasionally need to type it directly rather than relying on DNS. For a SOHO user, the ::2 is the moral equivalent of the internal IP address of your NAT.

              I occasionally hear objections to IPv6 on the grounds that you can't remember the addresses, but the only bit that needs remembering on a machine-by-machine basis is this ::2 bit and the only machines you need to remember are your routers and DNS servers. If you can manage this feat in IPv4 then IPv6 is not going to trouble you. Also, if this had been a multicast prefix, the ::2 suffix would have meant "all routers in this scope", because IPv6 addresses, if anything, are more expressive than the IPv4 ones they replace, so the number of machine addresses you need to remember might actually be fewer in IPv6 than in IPv4.

              1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

                Re: IPv6 is fundamentally broken

                "The 2001:db8 means this is a unicast address with global scope."

                Actually, if I can jump in before anyone else nit-picks, it's a unicast address with no scope whatsoever because this particular prefix is reserved for documentation (RFC3849). :(

                But it's definitely not a multicast address, so I was right in spirit, er...

      2. P. Lee

        Re: IPv6 is fundamentally broken

        >Haha, check it out guys. This one wants NAT.

        Yeah! Let's use a firewall to break the whole connectivity model instead of just blocking access.

        There's lots that is hard and probably wrong in IPv6, but not needing NAT ain't part of it. We need to use it and iron out the kinks, not avoid it.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "Let's use a firewall"

          The issue with a firewall is it requires network skills to be properly configured. NAT implies a simple "all inbound connections denied" default rule, and can't be turned off fully. I'm quite sure what most lusers would do with their firewall when encountering a connection issue - i.e. some game doesn't work - would be an "allow everything" rule. There are already many stupid "how to" around that shows how to solve such issues crippling security completely.

          1. Aqua Marina

            Re: "Let's use a firewall"

            "The issue with a firewall is it requires network skills to be properly configured. NAT implies a simple "all inbound connections denied" default rule"

            I think the issue is, that you have only ever used domestic / SOHO routers that appear to have merged the NAT and firewall functionality together, blinding you to the fact that they are 2 separate functions. You are blindly trusting the manufacturers of these devices to have made this choice for you and that it works in the manner you believe. Here's the eye opener for you, you are wrong. Many of the SOHO / domestic routers look like they work how you believe, but in reality they have fudged the interface to give you that impression. Have a dig down in the advanced settings, there you will see that the default settings are not configured as you believe (sometimes you have to enter the CLI), and that you have to do do some tinkering to make your network as secure as you think it is now.

            TLDR: SOHO / domestic router manufacturers have lulled you into a false sense of security by hiding technical stuff.

          2. Dwarf

            Re: "Let's use a firewall"

            All firewalls allow you to configure "any outbound" rules, similarly, all firewalls by default will block everything that is not listed in the rules base. that's the key difference between a router and a firewall.

            Did you notice that I didn't mention NAT, IPv4 or IPv6 in the above - as its the same thing for v4 or v6 and is completely different to NAT. NAT is not a security technology.

            Perhaps those saying it won't work will actually take a look and realise that they were misinformed.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: "Let's use a firewall"

              "all firewalls by default will block everything...."

              And there we go again assuming that all firewalls are identical and with the same default settings.

              Can I just re-iterate that "default" in computer terms does not mean, "normal" or "correctly". It means either "in a state of error" or "requiring configuration". By using default settings, you are not configuring the device with the appropriate settings for the task at hand. At best you are going along with what someone else thought worked well with their configuration, and at worst you are going along with random entries that made it into the firmware image. It frustrates me when someone calls me for support stating "but it's using default settings, it should work". Default means "error" not "correct"!!!

              1. Dwarf

                Re: "Let's use a firewall"

                A router connects networks together and gets traffic from A to B, it does not filter data.

                A firewall is a router that starts by restricting everything and you tell it what to pass. It takes its name from the material used to prevent fire getting from one place to another (i.e. another blocking technology)

                So, I'm 100% certain that the "default" for firewalls is exactly as I stated previously.

                The source of some of the confusion is that in the home environment, people call their box that connects to the Internet a router, when its actually multiple devices - a router, a firewall, a wireless access point, a printer sharing location, a mini-NAS, etc. In any other environment, nobody would consider mixing multiple roles onto a firewall as it makes it less secure.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: "Let's use a firewall"

                  "A firewall is a router that starts by restricting everything and you tell it what to pass"

                  A firewall that has had the final rule set to "deny all" works in this way. I've come across many enterprise routers where this setting has to be configured out of the box. You're confusing best practice with "all routers work this way". A firewall is a unit that allows traffic to pass back and forth, that can have rules applied to that traffic. Assuming that someone else has pre-configured best practice is asking for trouble. In 20 years probably 50% of the firewalls I've worked with have needed the final rule setting to "deny all".

                  Very helpfully some firewalls come with it pre-configured, but this isn't guaranteed. I have a Zyxel USG firewall here to hand, that out of the box has "default" as it's final rule. However I have to go into 2 sub-sections of settings to configure that "default" is "deny all". In it's current "allow all" default, the firewall allows all traffic through, only blocking any rules I create with the "deny" tag.

                  1. Dwarf

                    Re: "Let's use a firewall"

                    I've come across many enterprise routers where this setting has to be configured out of the box. You're confusing best practice with "all routers work this way".

                    You are still talking about routers, not firewalls. Routers will indeed allow all by default - see my original posting.

                    You are also confusing the generally invisible default deny rules that firewalls have from those that are put in under good practice so that the organisation can log what was dropped by the rules base. The default rules do not provide logging and are there to ensure that they do not fail open. Any opening is by user rules only. Enterprise firewalls often have hardware offload and the default drop is in hardware, which is another reason why the UI doesn't show it.

                    Of course its possible that some vendors will not have implemented industry best practice, but I guess that's also why they are not used in enterprises. Its hard to get sign off on a product that is not evaluated (Common criteria or FIPS), does not follow recognised industry good practice or have an industry reputation for being robust.

                    Irrespective of the above, a software configuration for a firewall module or a software configuration for a NAT translation (which is how this thread started) makes little difference, either is configurable and can be configured correctly or incorrectly, this is where skill and things like penetration tests come in.

                    Correctly configured firewalls are recognised as a security barrier without any NAT in place, this is irrespective of the version of IP protocol flowing through them.

                    Even in the home markets if a vendor has preconfigured their firewall, generally the consumer trusts that it works as designed, once again the IP version is not relevant to the argument. ISP's are already providing pre-configured IPv6 firewalls with equivalent functionality to drop unsolicited inbound connections.

                    There is no issue here for home network security.

                    1. This post has been deleted by its author

                      1. Dwarf

                        Re: "Let's use a firewall"

                        A +20 year enterprise experienced "better than CCNA" who can't tell the difference between a router and a firewall and hasn't mentioned out-of-band management ports or pinholes from the single firewall management console or single jump host - and you expect me to take you seriously about good practice on firewall setup ??

                        I agree that making mistakes is part of learning and we all do that after training courses (i.e. in the real world), but this has nothing to do with the original debate about NAT being "better" than firewall rules.

                        What you have summarised is that firewalls are very effective at performing their role of preventing access between networks - irrespective of the state of any other technologies such as NAT.

                        IPv4 firewalls are trusted like an old car - people are used to it, IPv6 is no different, its just a different car that you've not got used to yet. It's still a car and it still transports things, just differently. You can stick a NAT trailer on the it if you wish, but why bother, this one is an estate and has a boot !

              2. Roland6 Silver badge

                Re: "Let's use a firewall"

                >"Default means "error" not "correct"!!!"

                'Default' for many years, before security became the big issue it now is, was the most permissive settings. Hence why many people installed personal firewalls and wondered why they appeared to not be doing anything... I seem to remember this was one of the issues with early releases of Windows Firewall, as MS didn't want it to break stuff, whereas now I have to explicitly tell a Windows client to enable inbound RDS for example, which will cause the installer to modify relevant Windows Firewall settings.

                I also remember debates about the merits of 'Stealth mode' (no response to unsolicited inbound traffic) available on some firewalls; now I expect this setting to be not only provided as standard but enabled out-of-the-box as default. Interestingly, I find some people are still debating the value of outbound firewalling.

                I think it was only the "big boys" toys ie. serious network security products, that came with everything shutdown, so just to get them to pass anything you had to explicitly enable/open ports.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  " think it was only [...] serious network security products, that came with everything shutdown

                  You're being naive. What vendors fear is that once installed the product could cause issues to the company business, and the customer complains.

                  Thus, usually, the rule is exactly to allow all. I've seen it in Cisco and Fortinet products. It's up to you to close down what you need, and of course, you should do the opposite - close everything and open only what you need - but that requires a clear understanding of how your network works...

                  As long as the customer is happy.... "hey, I'm safe because I installed a firewall!!!"

          3. Ken Hagan Gold badge

            Re: "Let's use a firewall"

            "The issue with a firewall is it requires network skills to be properly configured. NAT implies a simple "all inbound connections denied" default rule, and can't be turned off fully. I'm quite sure what most lusers would do with their firewall when encountering a connection issue - i.e. some game doesn't work - would be an "allow everything" rule. There are already many stupid "how to" around that shows how to solve such issues crippling security completely."

            You appear to be arguing with yourself here. If NAT provides a simple "all inbound connections denied" rule that can't be turned off fully, then you'll be delighted to know that this is equally easily arranged in an IPv6 firewall as well. In fact, if it isn't the default then you need to publish the name of the router vendor so that we can all condemn them for reckless cluelessness and tell all our friends and relatives that they should not touch said vendor with a 20-foot pole.

            If, on the other hand, you enjoy the fact that you can punch a hole in your IPv4 NAT whenever a game asks you to then you'l be delighted to know that this is also possible and no more reckless on IPv6 than it would be on IPv4.

            1. Roland6 Silver badge

              Re: "Let's use a firewall"

              One of the nice things about NAT, as widely used in domestic situations is that it allows routers and other devices to 'know' out-of-the-box and thus assume that any address starting with 10. , 172.16. & 192.168. is private and thus local.

              Yes IPv6 has the concept of private address space (anything starting fcxx or fdxx.), however it's envisaged usage is different to the current usage of IPv4 private address spaces.

              As others here have pointed out, for Joe Public users, the kit has to be preconfigured and work out of the box ie. zero configuration required by typical end users. Also users will expect that local network services such as mDNS (aka Bonjour) to also simply work, so for example Airprint enabled printers either work out-of-the-box or simply need Airprint enabling.

              This isn't to say that IPv4 and NAT is wonderful, only that IPv6 has to deliver the totality of the current IPv4 network environment user experience.

              1. Nanashi

                Re: "Let's use a firewall"

                You actually can't assume that 10/8, 172.16/20 and 192.168/16 are local. What if your ISP configures 192.168.254.1 on their end and talks to your network from that? It would be RFC1918 but it wouldn't be local.

                Determining what's local is done via either the routing table or the interface. For a router, you declare any traffic coming in on the local interface as local, and anything coming in on the WAN interface as global, regardless of what IP it uses. For end hosts (which only have one interface) you treat it as local if you have an on-link route for the prefix.

                So, this stuff will work out of the box just fine in v6. Did you know that Windows does this with its firewall? If you set it to the Home profile, it allows connections from the local LAN but blocks them from other networks, and it does it in v4 and v6 without hardcoding the RFC1918 ranges. (If you set it to Public then it blocks connections from the local subnet too.)

    3. P. Lee

      Re: IPv6 is fundamentally broken

      Remote parties have many ways to track users across sessions. IP addresses are a very crude proxy for a user and as long as there is the possibility of NAT, proxies or multi-user hosts, the user-to-ip mapping is far too fragile to be definitive.

      1. Charles 9

        Re: IPv6 is fundamentally broken

        NAT isn't what blocks incoming connections. It's your firewall, and any firewall worth its salt has a DROP or REJECT rule for incoming connections by default. Without the firewall, an ISP (perhaps under pressue) can route directly into your LAN. The firewall doesn't go away with IPv6. Nor does NAT; it's just redone as one-to-one reconfigurable and ephemeral NATS which actually provide better protection by scrambling the visible topology.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: IPv6 is fundamentally broken

          "NAT isn't what blocks incoming connections."

          The NAT could be multiplexing many users' internal IP addresses' connections onto one external IP address's ephemeral TCP ports.

          In that case an unsolicited incoming request has no route to a specific user - unless there is a rule to make the association. The rule can either be explicit fixed routing to an internal IP address - or determined from the content of an outgoing connection like FTP.

          1. Charles 9

            Re: IPv6 is fundamentally broken

            Unless, of course, the ISP sends a PRECONSTRUCTED route, which wouldn't NEED translation. Then only the firewall stands between the ISP and your LAN.

    4. Christian Berger

      Re: IPv6 is fundamentally broken

      a) IPv6 can do NAT just the way IPv4 could... nobody uses it, but I think it's even in the Linux kernel.

      b) For browsers and stuff you can use a proxy server

      c) If you are using a browser you cannot hide anyway, because your browser and OS will have a fingerprint.

      Nobody does tracking via IP addresses as it can change at any moment (particularly with IPv6). What trackers do is to use cookies or your font list and screen resolution. It's a layer 5 problem, not a layer 3 one.

      1. sean.fr

        Re: IPv6 is fundamentally broken

        In a company, you are more likely to use a company proxy and your OS and browser are talking to the proxy, and the site should only sees the proxy, and your IT probably pay a service to keep you way from the more risky sites. You have the option to erase on exist or block cookies. Your font list and screen res are not unique. Not perfect - but not that bad either.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    It's all Excel's fault

    When planning out a new subnet in IPv4, it's easy to put a few rows in Excel, then select and drag to have the number auto-increment. If Excel added a cell type of IPv6 so that auto-increment respected the IPv6 specific rules then more network designers would implement IPv6 internally and so have more confidence to implement for external facing addresses as well.

    I'm only half joking. Maybe free IPv6 planning tools are what we need?

    1. Long John Brass
      Linux

      Re: It's all Excel's fault

      Nope it's simple.

      If you are serving traffic to the world+dog you set up a web server/gateway that can do IPv6 and everything behind the firewall stays on the same old IPv4 addresses

      Same for outbound NAT

      *simples*

      1. Charles 9

        Re: It's all Excel's fault

        Not so simple. Without IPv6 stacks, internal devices won't be able to send IPv6 addresses to the gateway. To use IPv6, you gotta grok IPv6 first.

        1. Long John Brass

          Re: It's all Excel's fault

          > To use IPv6, you gotta grok IPv6

          YES

          Not the point though.

          You set up a *FEW* DMZ machines that do both IPv6/IPv4 to the outside world and IPv4 *only* to the internal network. You don't need to move the whole real-estate across

          1. Charles 9

            Re: It's all Excel's fault

            But how does an IPv4-ONLY machine talk to an IPv6-ONLY machine. Neither understands the other.

            1. Long John Brass

              Re: It's all Excel's fault

              DMZ machines run both stacks. IPv4 and IPv6, these machines are in a DMZ and can talk to world+dog it also has a connection back to the legacy back-end. On these machines you run a protocol proxy EG Varnish, SMTP relay or whatever. This setup is pretty common for IPv4 only networks.

              Back-end only talks IPv4

              For outbound traffic you pull the same trick EG Squid transparent proxy. Hmmm I wonder if there are IPv4 to IPv6 translators.... May make and interesting project. Shouldn't be that hard .... tcp/udp traffic doesn't know or care about IP/v4/IPv6

              The big issue is that most internet providers only offer IPv4 :(

              1. Charles 9

                Re: It's all Excel's fault

                Still doesn't address the problem. Target device has a 128-bit IPv6 address. Source can only send 32-bit IPv4 addresses. It's like a native Frenchman trying to talk to a native German. Nothing in common, and you can't relay your way past the language barrier because IPv4 has no room for extensions that the (nonupgradeable) device can comprehend.

                1. Kiwi

                  Re: It's all Excel's fault

                  Nothing in common, and you can't relay your way past the language barrier because IPv4 has no room for extensions that the (nonupgradeable) device can comprehend.

                  If you're using a device on the public internet, you should seriously be considering it to be a problem if it can't upgrade. 1

                  But I'm pretty sure what you say is doable, as ISP's do seem to be doing it. Eg there doesn't seem to be any IPv6 here in NZ but I am pretty sure it's in widespread use, just we don't know it.

                  One way my tired brain is suggesting I could tackle it is effectively a gateway/translator box, eg El Reg's IP6 addy is bun:cha:wei:rd:num:bers which my IP4 only machine cannot see. So gateway simply tells IP4 that El Reg is 192.168.1.44 and lets the IP4 device get data on that IP, while it fetches the data from El Reg's IP6 address. Almost like NAT or proxying in a way. In fact someone even mentioned Squid in a recent post....

                  1 Yes I know, need to upgrade my own kit. When I have funds.

                  1. Nanashi

                    Re: It's all Excel's fault

                    You'd have to synthesize fake A records to DNS queries and coordinate with a NAT46 instance (so it would be stateful and wouldn't work for v6 literals) but your idea is actually fundamentally possible, unlike so many others that I've seen. It would be useful for dealing with legacy v4-only hardware. I'm not aware of any implementations (TAYGA can do NAT46 but requires static config of each mapping).

                    It wouldn't be suitable for running at scale though; you wouldn't use it for your whole network, just for any stubbornly v4-only devices that you can't replace for whatever reason. I'm not kidding when I say that deploying v6 on a home network is very easy: over 30 million households in the US have done it, so it really can't be hard (despite what other posters would have you believe). You would just do that, rather than deal with the downsides of translating for every device.

                    About 8% of NZ users have v6 (deployed right to their end machines), so it sounds like you can get v6 if you want it over there.

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