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back to article UK minister promises science budget won't be messed with after Brexit

Universities and science minister Jo Johnson has promised that the UK government will not "dip into the ringfence" of the allocated science budget to underwrite EU funding following Blighty's departure from the European Union. Prime Minister Theresa May has announced that the UK will formally begin the Brexit negotiation …

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                  1. Charlie Clark Silver badge
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                    Re: Mission Impossible

                    Eh? When did I say I know what the Germans are thinking?

                    haha, you repeatedly assert what people are thinking such as when making your entirely bogus claims about the UK having a good hand in the negotiations, only to deny it when you get called out.

                    Just because the rest of the EU doesn't want the UK to leave, doesn't mean that they'll want to give the UK a good deal if it leaves. On the contrary, there will be lots of electoral pressure to play hard ball.

                    3 0 Reply
                    1. codejunky Silver badge
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                      Re: Mission Impossible

                      @ Charlie Clark

                      "haha, you repeatedly assert what people are thinking such as when making your entirely bogus claims about the UK having a good hand in the negotiations, only to deny it when you get called out."

                      I think you might need to reread my comments. Either you are misinterpreting my comments (no worries if so) or you are building straw men (to which you may as well continue having this conversation with yourself). As you have probably now noticed it was you who mentioned the Germans but also I have not claimed to know anything about what the people in EU countries think. What I have been discussing is the comments made by the EU officials and their varying attitudes which range from hard ball and negotiable. And as you pointed out they all have to agree to make anything happen and that means the clean brexit is the best we will get unless something seriously odd happens.

                      We already know the other side is going to be stuck on the hard brexit idea and hard brexit isnt a problem for the UK. It could be beneficial compared to remaining (obviously government depending).

                      "Just because the rest of the EU doesn't want the UK to leave, doesn't mean that they'll want to give the UK a good deal if it leaves. On the contrary, there will be lots of electoral pressure to play hard ball."

                      I dont disagree. But the only real benefit the EU has to offer is the single market, that is pretty much the value of their hand but they are insisting it comes with other commitments which cancel out much if not all of that benefit. As for our freedom of the EU cartel we will have access to cheaper imports without the EU tariffs and trade deals even the EU have yet to achieve. The uncertainty so far has boosted inflation lowered our currency and will likely reduce house prices. All the things the BoE has been trying to do since the recession in the hopes of getting the base rate back up.

                      1 2 Reply
                      1. Charlie Clark Silver badge
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                        Angel

                        Re: Mission Impossible

                        But the only real benefit the EU has to offer is the single market

                        Yeah, a mere trifle. Strange that Norway seems to think it's worth paying to get access to this even thought it has no say on its rules.

                        If you think trade is all about tariffs then you're in for a rude awakening in a couple of years. But I'm sure the steel workers of Britain are relishing the prospect of even more cheap steel from China.

                        Anyway, I'll leave you to your rosy-tinted dreams of a return to England's glory days.

                        0 0 Reply
                        1. codejunky Silver badge
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                          Re: Mission Impossible

                          @ Charlie Clark

                          "Yeah, a mere trifle. Strange that Norway seems to think it's worth paying to get access to this even thought it has no say on its rules."

                          You may again want to reread my comments. That is the one thing I point out as having value. I just point out it doesnt necessarily counter the negatives being insisted.

                          "If you think trade is all about tariffs then you're in for a rude awakening in a couple of years. But I'm sure the steel workers of Britain are relishing the prospect of even more cheap steel from China."

                          The steel problem was due to successes in the UK. We have a higher wage, higher energy costs (due to green energy) and a desire to recycle. That is why the part that was being shut down was the virgin metal furnace part. It is obsolete.

                          "Anyway, I'll leave you to your rosy-tinted dreams of a return to England's glory days."

                          Return to? Is this that remain fantasy of going back to the 'good old days' they attribute to the leave vote? You do know the EU was designed and developed for an era left behind?

                          1 0 Reply
            2. Paul Shirley
              Reply Icon

              Re: Mission Impossible

              " German CBI has already gone on record as saying that "it's a political issue"

              More importantly the German car workers agreed. They want trade to continue but the want the basic principles of Europe maintained more. The brexiteers seem incapable of believing money can be a secondary issue, despite complaining about the EU morphing into a poltical union they can't understand why anyone inside would make a political decision and sideline raw greed.

              So we're doomed to see them continue to claim a deal is possible right up to the point they're offered an all or nothing choice :(

              3 1 Reply
        2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
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          Unhappy

          "ther 27 members get together and decide what to offer the UK. "

          Actually IIRC they get together and select 2 countries to do the negotiating on behalf of the EU.

          The UK does not get a vote on who they are.

          Could both be quite sympathetic (to a point).

          Could both have an axe or two to grind for various reasons.

          Could be a mix.

          IOW a total crap shoot. And that's just the selection process.

          3 0 Reply
  2. I_am_Chris

    Ring fence

    Ring fencing is one thing, which should be applauded. However, post brexit we're facing at least a £3bn loss in funding. What's UK Gov going to do about that?

    This is on top of the fact that the UK has one of the lowest levels of science funding per GDP (1.7%) amongst leading nations (below EU average and massively behind USA) and has dropped since 2009.

    Core academic funding is critical for innovation, creativity and manufacturing. If it gets squeezed any further the whole country will suffer.

    5 0 Reply
    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge
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      Re: Ring fence

      Ring fencing is one thing, which should be applauded

      Ring fencing may be a crowd-pleaser but is usually bad policy. Governments have a job to do and need to ensure that they either have enough money to do everything they want to do; or make sure that they do as much as possible with the money they have. For example, the Tories under Cameron promised to "ring fence" the NHS but reduce overall expenditure. This meant more cuts to things like social security which ended up putting more pressure on the NHS. Or the "sequester" the US imposed after the last shutdown which forced the army into expensive contract cancellations and procurement deals it no longer wanted to pursue because entitlements were ring fenced.

      3 0 Reply
  3. lglethal Silver badge

    Maybe im being cynical here

    but I read his comment like this:

    That the government wont shift funds from the 26bn that it currently provides to institutions for UK only funded Projects to cover the gap from the 8bn in Science funding that comes from the EU. That's a fine sentiment, BUT he makes absolutely ZERO mention about where the money for that missing 8bn is going to come from. The 5bn that goes TO the EU for Science doesnt come out of that 25bn, so the defecit isnt 3bn, it is 8bn. As you have about a snowballs Chance in Hell that that the 5bn that goes to the Eu for science funding will go back into UK Science funding. Science isnt a vote winner, I guarantee that 5bn will go to the NHS, or be used to prop up other departments who find there funding cut, when they realise they wont be getting back anywhere near as much from Brexit as they thought....

    3 0 Reply
  4. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    Too many experts

    I thought that we'd already agreed that there are too many of the bastards! Reduce these silly research budgets is what I say! I mean, what is it these so-called "scientists" actually do? Drink coffee, smoke pipes and stroke their beards (especially the lady scientists who are all lesbians by the way) I don't doubt.

    This is from my application to join the Daily Mail as Mrs Gove's dogsbody. What do you reckon my chances are?

    5 0 Reply
  5. Pen-y-gors

    Start the countdown...

    until T May gives the Minister six of the best on his bare bottie with a wet kipper and says he wasn't authorised to say that. Counting 10...9...8...

    0 0 Reply
  6. Tom Paine

    What with the forthcoming £350m x 52 = £18Bn / year increase in NHS funding, covering the CAP payments to farmers, funding for science and technology, the pay-to-play fees needed to get financial services access to the SM so that Canary Wharf doesn't become a ghost town, the regional development funding, and who knows what other special pleading,.. we're either going to be borrowing a lot more at rapidly increasing rates of interest, or taxes are going to have to go up at the 25% and 40% bands quite significantly. What a dilemma for a Tory Chancellor -- borrow, or raise taxes? Rather him than me.

    6 1 Reply
  7. MAF
    FAIL

    Bus time!

    Please paint this on a bus and drive it around London to show how iron-clad this promise is....

    4 0 Reply
  8. MAF

    Why UK science is heavily dependent upon EU funding

    This is the question that no one has asked. The reason being that over the decades UK governments have pared back funding (e.g. MAFF & DEFRA funded research). To keep going, organisations went out for EU grants (and in many cases were extremely successful) and a high % of their funding came from this source. This is why removal could be so damaging.

    It will still be possible to get funding from EU still but we have to be partnered by an EU state i.e. passive rather than active applicants....

    2 0 Reply
  9. annodomini2

    Ah...

    So it's the first thing to be cut...

    2 0 Reply
  10. Jess

    It's not the funding that's the issue

    We could solve that, (although I doubt we'll bother).

    The issue is freedom of movement. Collaborative projects are not going to be set up in countries where Scientists and their friends and families can't come and go as they please.

    The Swiss already have problems with their (as yet not enacted) referendum decision to end freedom of movement.

    (The Swiss aren't part of the EU or EEA, but have their own arrangement negotiated over many years which is like EEA membership, but without the banking freedom).

    I'm guessing they will either have to change their mind or hope they can get a Turkey style arrangement. (i.e sacrifice services to remove freedom of movement)

    0 0 Reply
  11. Zmodem

    leaving the EU won't affect any science research, britain leads the world in drugs, never done much for space science, and you would expect scientists to earn more then £30,000 a year which immigrants need for long term stay

    all britain can do is give BAE Systems some of the £15bn eco money from the EU payments and redesign skylon to have EM pulse propulsion which can get to the edge of the solar system in 33 hours

    0 0 Reply

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