back to article Ballmer: All open source dev should happen on Windows

While in Britain last week, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer took a swipe at just about everything - from one of the world's largest Linux vendors to a social networking company he may end up buying. He insisted that Red Hat violates MS patents. He compared Facebook to GeoCities. He even accused Google of reading your email. At …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.

Page:

  1. A J Stiles

    Ballmer is a d.h.

    Open Source software is almost invariably developed initially on some sort of unix -- whether that be GNU/Linux, one of the BSDs or Solaris -- and only gets ported to Windows because there was no good reason not to. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I cannot honestly think of a single example of a piece of software which was originally developed on Windows and later ported to unix. Also, the fact that TrollTech's Qt libraries have long been available under the GPL (and therefore TrollTech could not prevent anyone from porting them to Windows) yet nobody actually *did* port them, serves only to reinforce my thinking that most developers on the Windows platform are more interested in pirating closed-source payware and developing malware than in developing Free Software.

    As for Ballmer's speech: European and British law specifically *excludes* software from the scope of patentability, so GNU/Linux -- being pure software -- most certainly is *not* infringing any valid patents in the UK or on the Continent. European and British law also specifically exclude enforcement of a new law after the fact; so if British or European law ever changes such that software becomes patentable, then everybody will have to apply for brand new patents (which most probably will be refused on the grounds of prior art).

    And does misrepresenting the law and falsely accuses people of illegal acts [though in this case, the falseness of the accusation derives not from the alleged perpetrators not committing the acts, but from the non-illegality of the acts] with clear intent to scare potential Open Source customers into using Microsoft software and thereby securing financial gain for Microsoft, constitute fraudulent advertising?

  2. MarkMac

    no he didn't...

    Actually Microsoft did not say that 640K was enough, or that filenames needn't be longer than 8.3. The latter comes from CPM (which gets it from an older OS), whereas even if you swap microsoft for gates the former is simply an urban legend.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    gb.espacenet.com indicates MS number is false.

    I would like to know how anything can violate 235 of Microsofts patents in the U.K.

    A patent search on gb.espacenet.com (available from the UK Intellectual Property Office) only turns up 51 patents refering to Microsoft. Even IF all of those where infringed (and I am certianly not saying they are), and all of them are legally valid (and again I am not saying they actually are) then the figure of 235 is still 184 short isn't it?

    And what about the Patent Act 1977 ( http://www.ipo.gov.uk/patentsact1977.pdf ) which states:

    > (2) It is hereby declared that the following (among other things)

    > are not inventions for the purposes of this Act, that is to say,

    > anything which consists of -

    [snip]

    > (c) a scheme, rule or method for performing a mental act, playing a game

    > or doing business, or a program for a computer;

    If you can't patent a computer program then what non-computer program patents is being violated?

    Is it also not a bit hypocritical of Microsoft to be moaning about it's patents, didn't they violate someone elses patents? MP3 anyone? And didn't they distribute their software commercially to a large number of people?

  4. Anonymous Coward
    IT Angle

    all these people calling for Ballsup to 'fix Vista'?

    Surely they are as insane as the man himself; he couldn't fix a dripping tap.

    I really, really, really hope Billy-boy keeps him employed. More and more unjustifiable public utterances the better - as eventually more and more public will begin to understand just how venal and stupid the M$ corporation actually is...

  5. The Other Steve

    @Alain

    MSDN online ? Think before you speak. The availability of MS API documentation isn't an issue, the *quality* of that documentation is something that windows developers have been arguing about amongst ourselves for years.

  6. Philip Cheeseman
    Gates Horns

    Facebook

    If they buy facebook - I'm never using it again. Probably stop supporting Firefox (I really like their pro-FF stance).

    If fact I can see it turning into that whole MSN/Windows Live lump of web nastyness.

  7. David Heffernan

    All open source dev should happen on Windows?

    What he actually said, according yo your article at least was "I would love to see all open source innovation happen on top of Windows" which is completely different from the article title "Ballmer: All open source dev should happen on Windows".

    Or are you just stirring again?!

  8. Magnus Egilsson

    Ballmer the Sirius Cybernetics executive

    Hey there Mr. Ballmer Destroyer of Intelligent Life on Earth

    Why dont you do as your Sirius Cybernetics complaints division says, "Go stick your head in a pig"

  9. Gordon

    You can't blame him.

    He's just doing his job by attempting to destabalise the competition (Linux), and present a positive image of Microsoft. And that's his job and he'll be fired (and should be fired) if he doesn't do it. He might very well know perfectly well that there is no merit in the patent, and that most of what he spouts is complete crap. But he's hardly going to turn around and say "Oh, don't buy our product. Go and download Ubuntu.. And I'l give you another tip.. Hotmail? Piece of shit, in my opinion... Go and join Gmail - it's really much better".

    I don't think he's telling the truth, but I suspect he knows this. Just take what he says with a pinch of salt.

  10. Gordon

    And another thing...

    You may think he's a "complete tool", but surely "Failure" is pushing it a bit far??

    He's got one of the top jobs in one of the top companys in IT and probably earns more in a day than most people do in a year. I bet his mother is real proud of him, and the day you're doing better you can call him a tool.

    Vista is a white elephant, but that happens sometimes.

  11. regadpellagru
    Jobs Horns

    Title

    "People who use Red Hat, at least with respect to our intellectual property, in a sense have an obligation eventually to compensate us,"

    "I would love to see all open source innovation happen on top of Windows"

    "Google's had the same experience - even though they read your mail and we don't"

    No doubt, someone will have to give back his pills to Balmer. It's been a while, come on, it's no longer funny, naughty boys !

    @El Reg, we've seen uncoherent statements receive their fair share of sarcasm, in those columns, why not those ? Well, sure, I understand Ballmer is now a very vulnerable target, making the world collapse in laugh, but come on, someone will have to deliver !

  12. Outcast
    Coat

    Wot E sed

    @ The release of the Amiga

    IINM they also said something like...

    What do you need 4K colours and stereo sound for to write a letter ? "Must be a games machine - A toy".

    Hmmmmm !!

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Gates Horns

    Red Hat

    These accusations have been made a few times now, why don't just go to court for a declaratory ruling. Force MS to put up or shut-up.

  14. Jamie Bowden
    Paris Hilton

    Patent != Copyright

    Rewriting code won't fix a patent violation.

    And where the fuck is Paris Hilton?

  15. Ted Treen
    Jobs Halo

    @Gordon - Yes I can blame him.

    ".......and probably earns more in a day than most people do in a year......"

    No Gordon, he might collect more in a day than I do in a year, but in no way does he EARN it. He is just a schmuck who was fortunate enough to have once been in the right place at the right time.

  16. Syren Baran
    Coat

    Stop making jokes about Ballmer

    MS patented the act of laughing about Ballmer.

    He´s their inhouse joke and they will sue you if you infringe.

  17. Martin Owens
    Thumb Up

    TV Time for open source?

    >> People flock like sheep, the past few years of tech have shown this time again. It's high time we get more movies and TV shows showing *nix on the desktop instead of MS stuff. RH/Novell/whoever, should look to make a school tailored distro (different for each country) and make a big advertisement campaign telling the world how great it all is - provided it is tailored for the job first.

    Did you not watch Heroes? For some really weird reason Nickey uses KDE to do video streaming, Mahindra uses one of the light weight Linux DE's for his genetics research; I'm surprised they didn't do an ubuntu dance, although it looks like Ando was using windows xp in japan so I guess you can't have everything can you.

  18. Steve Anderson
    Gates Horns

    Re: SCO's patents

    SCO has no patents, their whole thing against the world revolved around a convoluted copyright agreement.

    I look forward to Microsoft having a go at Linux though. It'll make Linux stronger by removing the ambiguity that Ballmer has been sowing the seeds of.

  19. Andy Crofts
    Thumb Up

    @Paul Stimpson

    well...

    Today, I did a total upgrade of Ubunutu from 7.04(Feisty) to 7.10 (Gutsy)

    * <Student_Grant> "Actually" </Student_Grant>

    it DID take much of the day. Went to pub, would've been faster, but I didn't realise it'd ask me whether I wanted to do this or that.

    After the install (using it now) - it works flawlessly

    So, why aren't we giving some serious FUD* to Ballmer? After all, he deserves it. Discovery should produce some interesting coding (==stolen=)

    *Anyone remember when FUD was a nickname for female fenitalia - or am I too old? </coat>

    -Andy

  20. J
    Dead Vulture

    Sue, sue! Or not...

    "Actually can we have that as an icon? Steve Ballmer in a jester's hat?"

    I believe El Reg is afraid of flying chairs, so I'm afraid this is not happening. Unfortunately. :-)

    Now, couldn't the open source companies sue MS for slander or whatever is the term? They are clearly trying to damage their business, and doing so by saying (at least so far) unfounded things about them. I thought that could get you in trouble.

  21. Mark

    Title

    Odd phrasing, though, from Ballmer.

    Yes, we the FOSS users DO respect MS's IP in Linux. In fact, we respect it so much, we don't have any. And, you'll note, he never *says* that there is any MS IP in Linux, just that we should respect any there is in there and if there were any, to pay up for it.

    Well, that last bit is wrong, since we can just stop using it. But he never actually *says* there's any MS IP in Linux. Maybe because libel is so hard to defend when you are afraid of being specific.

  22. Morely Dotes
    IT Angle

    Here's the facts, folks

    If Microsoft did, in fact, have any *VALID* patents that Red Hat was violating, Microsoft would be in court trying to sue Red Hat out of existence. However, MS is well aware that *every single patent they have ever filed* would be overturned in court because of "prior art" or total lack of innovation ("fails the obviousness test"). Ergo, MS *can't afford* to sue Red Hat.

    So, fact #1: Steve Ballmer is a lying sack of bovine fecal matter.

    Windows Vista has failed miserably in the marketplace. Althouhg MS has succeeded in force many OEMs to push Vista on the unsuspecting new-computer buyer, one of the largest, Dell, will still sell you a machine with Windows XP if you ask for it (because when they tried to force Vista on corporate customers, they bled sales like a whale with an explosive harpoon stuck in). And unlike Halo 3, people who already have computers with older versions of Windows are NOT lining up and clamoring to buy Vista to "upgrade".

    Fact #2: Microsoft is in serious trouble. they have enough cash to stay in serious trouble for a long, long time before going titsup, but unless Ballmer can convince people that Vista isn't crap (and he'll have better luck convincing Osama bin Laden that GWB is a devout Muslim), MS is going to lose the desktop; maybe not to Linux, but someone will certainly take over.

    And those are all the facts one really needs.

    Oh, and since we're talking about Windows - where's the IT angle? After all, Windows isn't an IT product - it's a toy OS for game PCs.

  23. Nazlfrag
    Dead Vulture

    It's magic!

    I know he reads my email, it's part of his sadistic nature. Then again, the complete lack of analysis would explain the preponderance of spam. Just remember to view the trace, folks.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What has Microsoft invented, discuss

    Type your comment here — plain text only, no HTML

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Gates Horns

    OK, my head is going to explode...

    Doesn't anybody remember? Apple was basically given the whole GUI scheme, courtesy of Xerox, Microsoft copied the whole damn thing, the only key differences is that Microsoft's OS ran on an 80x86 CPU and Apples ran on a 68Kseries cpu, Microsoft's OS used two or more buttons on its mouse and Apple has still relied on only one. Past that, MS has stolen or purchased damn near everything it's had its eye on.

    Remember Novell? In my opinion, one of the best real File Server systems ever made; brutally fast and effective at what it did: Serve files. At one time they completely monopolized the file server market... But this one time, in LAN camp, along came Microsoft, with a mediocre product called Windows NT that not only did a halffast decent job at serving files, but it also exploited certain features in the OS on the client machines... That was ultimately the undoing of Novell.

    The Microsoft server class products are nothing more than applications servers that do file serving, as an afterthought, and the PC OS's, while sharing some of the same basic code as the server OS's, are top heavy because of Microsoft's continued reliance on DLL's and glittering examples of flat ass lazy programming.

    The bad news is that Micrsoft as a big ass rainy day fund that will keep it around a good long time... But the good news is that it can't last forever and one of these days, someone will write something for *nix that will make it friendly to the dumb masses who have to rely on the basic "user friendlyness" of Windows.

    Remember, what made Microsoft wasn't the fact they have always had a superior product, because they clearly haven't; what made Microsoft is their ability to market a product into ubiquity and make mass reliant on it and then charge them THROUGH the nose.

    The really cool thing is that we are witnessing history here, we're watching a giant on the backside of its apex and it really has nowhere to go from here except down...

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Gates Halo

    lots of gpl on windoze, and it's a blessing indeed......

    cuz now you can dump mediaplayer and use for example VLC which does play mpeg / dvb ( digital tv) etcetera without all the headaches of mickeysoft dll's that dont work or work half the way..... (sometimes)

    + there's (especially on multimedia) a lot of other goodness for windows/linux on sourceforge, usually Qt or wxwidgets based (=linux)

    go and have a look, saves tons of irritation & a few bucks....

    RG

  27. James Anderson
    Jobs Halo

    Hes got a point

    My XP machine is my development platform of choice!

    Why? Well my standard dev environment of eclipse, apcahe, php, python, perl all have better easier to manage distributions on windows than they do on my Suse 9 box. Not sure why this should but but thats the way it is. The Suse 9.4 distribution of Eclipse is particularly braindead -- so much so that I normaly use VIM on my Suse box (and yes the Windows version of VIM is better than the Suse version).

    I know I should really upgrade to Suse 10 or Ubuntu but XP is much older than Suse 9 and I still dont feel the need for an upgrade.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Title

    "Ballmer: All open source dev should happen on Windows"

    "Me: I think Windows Should be Open source Dev"

    MS keep saying they Linux is using MS code, but are sure the MS didn't Steal it from Linux?

    surely for Linux people to copy MS code they would have to reverse engineer the code or something, where are all MS would need to do is download Linux Source files and Copy and paste

    I wonder which is more likely MS having Linux code or Linux having MS code :)

  29. Nick

    @AC

    "surely for Linux people to copy MS code they would have to reverse engineer the code or something, where are all MS would need to do is download Linux Source files and Copy and paste"

    He's talking about patents rather than copyright. You can infringe a patent without copying the code.

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Gates Horns

    Microsoft is dumping advertising at a loss

    Here the numbers:

    http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pYFPEp3S18PQ8Hy2lb4jBOA

    They're paying out more in revenue than they get from the advertising. It looks like they're dumping advertising at a loss.

  31. Paul
    Dead Vulture

    MCSE - Microsoft's Certifiable Steve Embarassment?

    I'm torn.

    On the one hand, I want to see Stevie B wrapped up in one of those nice, close-fitting jackets with the arms stitched firmly into place, then dispatched, heavily sedated, to a locked rubber room in a secure facility, where he can no longer do himself or anyone around him harm. He is clearly a nut job, fruit loop, has a screw loose, isn't playing with the full deck of cards, and is a few KB short of a MB, so to speak.

    On the other hand, leaving him in charge carries a small chance of bringing Microsoft down from the inside, by causing them to make stupid business choices and over time, become a laughing stock among the very people who currently buy their crap.

  32. kevin elliott

    Microsoft Can't Sue

    For microsoft to start sueing over patent infringement would be idiotic:

    1 There's no guarantee the patents would hold up in court

    2 There's no money in the OS companies to make a campaign worthwhile (unless IBM were to buy Red Hat...) - except for Novell...

    3 Judging by the Riaa and music infringement, public opinion would be swayed so far against MS that sales would be heavily affected

    4 If MS went against OS, other big guys would be forced to step in with their patent portfolios and use them against MS

    5 If it turned into a protracted battle, there'd be so much attention on MS that it would create an opening for Apple to move from a trendy, but not so sensible alternative, to a real, everyone's buying it - no legal battles - product.

    6 The head of their patents/IP operation is ex-IBM. He knows just how much is waiting to be thrown at MS if they do more than shout...

    So far better to posture, shout and intimidate, rather than bring any real actions to court. To do so would weaken their position considerably and be committing commercial suicide. It'd be MS vs IBM, Sun, HP, Red Hat, Novell Apple as well as many others. .. i.e. MS vs the world.

  33. Nick L
    Gates Horns

    Lessons from near history, part 1: SCO vs the world

    Remind me, wasn't there a company a few years ago that made the very same claims against Linux, and went after IBM for <Voice=DrEvil>Five Billion Dollars</voice>?

    Remember SCO? They're now in Chapter 11 and fighting damn dirty to convert someone else's money into the pockets of their directors, lawyers and friends.

    They also had a crack at Novell and, for good measure, their customers too. Add Redhat to the mix for a battle on many fronts that SCO themselves initiated.

    "Literally millions of lines" of infinging code which violated their copyrights and patents were trumpeted by their CEO. MIT "Deep divers" had found evidence of copying. In Germany, there was a briefcase full of evidence.

    This all, in reality, came down to the square root of sod all and IBM is on the verge of skinning them alive for Lanham act violations (not to be confused with Langham violations).

    Or they would be if SCO even owned the copyrights they're trying to assert. It rather looks like Novell actually owns those.

    Novell was about to take the tune of around $30million dollars from SCO that SCO had misappropriated as their own but really owed Novell due to a reseller agreement in place. A big lump of that license money came from Microsoft. By entering chapter 11, they've claimed that that judgement is stayed. Just before entering - the day before IIRC - they increased salaries, awarded bonuses etc...

    To the cynical, it looks horribly like Microsoft may have been watching SCO from the wings, encouraging where they can. Now SCO is crushed so many ways, are the Redmond boys with the Big Wallets going to wade in? They've got Novell on their side - well, ish. Novell has taken the King's Shilling...

    MS would not be foolish enough to go after IBM with their Nazgul. So redhat it is, then!

    I expect the War on Open Source to be likened to the War on Terror: there's no enemy that they can go after, so they're fighting on every front. Expect more repression of freedom that you currently enjoy with your software...

    I can see this going very badly for Microsoft. Very badly indeed. I don't understand why they feel the need to make such public and idiotic unfounded statements. Are things that bad that they need to look at doing a SCO?

  34. David Silver badge
    Coat

    Re: Iconography

    Yes, the new comment icons are great, but am I the only one to think that the "I'll get my coat" icon looks worryingly more like "Pickpockets operate in this cloakroom"? I'm sure his left hand is definitely rustling around for a wallet, rather than innocently picking up his 'own' jacket..

    And surely we need "Happy Tux" and "Harpooned Tux" icons, too, to match their rivals. And daemons, gnus, mozillas, dogcows, rainbow-tickmarks, ...

    IGMC.

  35. JC

    Fun for the kids

    ... when the Steve Ballmer Traveling Circus comes to town. I'm a bit amazed MS keeps him around, or maybe this is their solution to give Steve "busy work", but they had no idea at the time what trouble a monkey can get into.

Page:

This topic is closed for new posts.

Other stories you might like