back to article Free software campaigners stonewalled at BBC

The Free Software Foundation (FSF) mounted its protests against "corruption" of the BBC by Microsoft in London and Manchester this morning. Free software protestors hold up their sign against the BBC's White City sign Smashing the system In filthy weather, about 20 assorted free software and open source advocates turned …

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  1. Kevin Bailey

    Title

    "I'd be a lot more sympathetic to the conspiracy theories about Microsoft pulling the strings at the beeb if iPlayer actually worked in Vista. Surely if Bill was in charge he'd have made sure that was sorted before it was released?"

    Umm... How long have you need reading tech news for?

    Microsoft are terrible at supplying software. That's part of why it is so bad that they lie and cheat to keep their monopolies.

    Hell - Vista can't even delete or copy files properly.

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/05/15/vistas_long_goodbye_continues/

    The shame of it is that 'Personal Computing' could have been so good for ordinary people - they should be spending all their time doing useful and/or fun things. Instead they spend most of their time being hacked, virused, bank accounts being robbed, computers used in botnets etc etc etc etc etc.

    Competition will produce a superior product - just look how Apple Mac's make Windows PC's look like dogs. (And no, I don't have a Mac - all my friends do). But MS will do whatever they can to stop Mac's from being allowed to compete - including getting one of their pets to run IT at the BBC.

    This is why the protest is important - we want a level playing field - so that competition can then produce better products.

    Shame on the BBC for for allowing this to happen. I for one will now move away from the license asap - a Mac in the front room, Utube and DVD's. Other frineds have done it and I will soon.

    Once the BBC no longer has any license money they may have to compete - only too late they'll find they are completely dependent on Microsoft.

    Bye bye BBC - and thanks for all the fish.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    RE: (reply to) The BBC need to rethink how it deals with content providers.

    re: "Sorry, but it doesn't have anything like that sort of influence"

    You make a good point, it's not commonly understood what a quagmire of rights holder permissions are required in order to make an episode and that the BBC would be restricted in distributing its own content by those rights used within it (eg: background music). The BBC would need to renegotiate these kinds of deals or change the way they create stuff. That of course don't help us at this point in time with the iPlayer, but it is something to think about.

    However, the point stands that air time and any form of broadcast by a recognised broadcaster is a valuable commodity in its self and that fact should be considered by the content providers. You can make the best content in history but it doesn't make any difference if it is never consumed. That is the kind of influence that the BBC needs to be urged to use.

    "Where is the money supposed to come from for this?"

    Not the BBC or the licence fee. The content providers should be made to see the extra value that is being brought to them and use that to create the market for what ever they intend to sell. They don't even need to produce this stuff, just licence the rights for exploiting it to others. eg: DVDs, toys, music, ring tones, other bits of crap, etc.

    After all cheap airfares have nothing to do with selling the actual seat on the aircraft, but more to do with what is sold with it. The whole rights business is on shaky ground anyway, it's in peoples (and many types of animals) nature to copy and nothing is going to change that. Therefore you need to find another way of being paid for your work, and from what I can see you need to use the fact that if it is popular, it is going to spread and that is what you exploit.

    Where does this leave us with iPlayer? Well I can only surmise that even if the technology (the playback, not DRM) is ready for the purpose, the political and business issues around content rights are not and it's that and not DRM which needs to be addressed.

  3. Kevin Bailey

    We can all do something

    What I am going to do is to cancel my direct debit for the TV license. This is because for six months of the year you actually pay in advance.

    I'll still pay for the license as I am going to obey the law - but they are going to only get their money when it is due.

    I urge you all to do the same.

    At least I'm going to feel that I've done something - and I'll tell the accounts people exactly why I've done it.

  4. Stuart

    errrr

    who cares?

    BBC is going the way of most other commercial TV providers just churning out or buying from the US, soaps, repeats and reality dross. Stick ads on it and it could easily be any other commercial channel.

    Its an old saying, but why not turn off the TV and go and do something more interesting instead? Or more educational, or more healthy or more rewarding.

  5. Stephen B Streater

    Video of demonstration

    I made a video of the demonstration, which you can watch here:

    http://clesh.com/videos/view/BBCsdemo-1187166661.can/

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    All about lock in...

    It's not so much about the issue of not having a media player "yet" for Linux or Apple's broken OSs, (and I'll ignore the muppets who are attempting to be smart by wanting it on TRS-80s).... it's about the infernal lock-in cycle that the monopoly Microsoft are foisting on EVERYBODY and idiots like the BBC (who now seem to be run by MS execs) are just propagating this further...

    I don't disagree with a plan to initially develop on the most widely used operating system there currently is. However to do it in such a way that it cannot also be implemented (later) on ANY other systems is bordering on criminal.

    For instance...

    In order to access the iPlayer service you MUST use Internet Explorer (aka. Idiot Explorer, because you'd have to be an idiot to choose to use it). - the world's worst Web Browser

    In order to use IE, you must use it on a recent Microsoft platform (yes, there was IE available for Macs, but that was a long time ago and running an emulator is still, effectively, running it on the platform). Besides, it "requires" IE because of the abhorrent insecure bastardisations that are ActiveX controls, these don't work on anything other than Intel platforms.

    If you buy a new PC from January, unless you're a corporate and have paid Microsoft over the odds for a "discount" plan, then you're forced to use MS Vista or get one of the very rare Linux or OS free systems (something that MS has lobbied and bullied their way to ensuring is very difficult)

    It continues, from every possible angle...

    In order to use e-mail in a corporate environment, you must use Outlook and Exchange (IBM effectively killed the only other partly worthwhile competitor as they'd rather "websphere" than Notes, and Novell killed groupwise through incompentence). Exchange is morinically twisted and intertwied with IIS, itself a bastardised abortion of an application of epic proportions (it's pathetically inefficient, unwieldy, unmanagemable and unstable... then try maintaining or upgrading it). Yet Exchange is so separate from IIS that while it requires it, it cannot actually integrate fully).

    IIS requires Active Directory to purport to running in any even partly manageable state with any form of security (don't want to serve insecure web pages? tough, HTTP is *required*, secure web pages (HTTPS) is optional). Want to use it as a web server on the Internet with user logins? Forget it's so-called security model, instead log all users on with full access rights and roll your own security model... or pay stupid amounts of money, your choice.

    Of course, everything these days is sharepoint... another abortion of epic proportions... it requires IIS Active Directory and MS-SQL yet somehow manages to completely fail to integrate properly into each of them. MS SQL server, of course, is another stunning piece of inefficient resource swallowing unaccountable and unmanagable bloatware. Sharepoint, of course, is a document management system that sets the industry back 10-15 years compared to what was there before. It also pretends to be a web server, yet can neither operate with or without IIS and if you want to manage users on it you have to spend £30,000 for a Internet facing version or purchase CA licences for each and every user. Don't forget though, that due to the borked attempt security model, if you give them access to your website then they have access to your corporate network as well. Sharepoint is also being HEAVILY pushed by MS as a replacement to the windows server file system.

    The windows server filesystem... still behind what even Netware could manage 15 years ago and other operating systems have managed prior and since. Want to undelete a file? Forget it, fetch it from a backup. Want to manage file versions? forget it, not possible. Want a SANE security model without lots of stupid gotchas, inexplicable hacks (share and security access anyone?) and NO accountability whatsoever, use NTFS. In order to find the rights that a user has you have to query each and every resource in every tree. This is not a function of a real operating system's security model, it's a hack on top of a single user window interface.

    If you want to secure your office network by using something other than Internet Explorer as a corporate browser, forget it. MS updated SharePoint and Outlook WebAccess to "better support" (i.e. bork entirely and require more ActiveX controls to do anything useful). You can't have your users use Internet Explorer for internal resources and a decent, half secure browser for external access because this requires careful control and will never work. You can't put in place proper security at the firewall because intelligent firewalls that enforce standards block Internet Explorer and it's additional privacy busting headers and other fun additions to standards. Try to adequately protect your internal resources (web servers, etc) and you also suffer the same fate.

    So, in short - as soon as you deploy windows in your corporate environment you quickly become rail-roaded into dropping every other technology you have/had and using MS's invariably (but not at first glance) more expensive and inferior systems. MS's next plan is to take control of office phone systems by badly integrating them with Exchange. Their Instant Messaging takeover ploy hasn't worked yet, but only because the majority of Smart Phones/Carriers don't or won't support it and neither does their server software. What's more you'll do this "voluntarily"

    All this and I have MCSE and MCSA qualifications... had Novell quals as well, for what good that does these days...

    I'd love to suggest alternatives but users don't want them because there is only one operating system, one word processor, one spreadsheet, one e-mail client, one instant messenger application, one server platform, one web server platform...

  7. Chris Williams (Written by Reg staff)

    @Morely Dotes

    "Firstly, I believe that is either an outright lie, or El Reg's reporter made the assumption that the Beeb's partners demanded *Microsoft* DRM."

    No. The BBC says its content partners demand DRM with timebombing, i.e. Windows Media.

    Chris Williams

    El Reg

  8. Roz Sermons

    Re; @Morely Dotes

    QUOTE: No. The BBC says its content partners demand DRM with timebombing, i.e. Windows Media.

    Which doesn't mean that the Beeb's partners demanded Microsoft DRM. Even if the Beeb chose not to write a DRM themselves they could have chosen to go into a partnership with someone other than M$ for them to produce the DRM specified.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Roz Sermons

    "Even if the Beeb chose not to write a DRM themselves they could have chosen to go into a partnership with someone other than M$ for them to produce the DRM specified."

    Jeez, the freetards are out in force once more.

    Lemme see: as a licence-fee payer, do I want to see a) the BBC buying a bullshit DRM package, b) writing a bullshit DRM package or c) commissioning a bullshit DRM package.

    Would you expect the BBC to write or commission their own web servers, database servers, A/V editing software, groupware, office apps etc? Why do you think a DRM platform is any different.

    As has been pointed out above, if you don't like it do something better. You've got the requirements - go scratch that itch.

  10. Rob Crawford

    Sigh

    To those who have nothing better to do with their lives I suggest having a wash, brushing your hairy teeth, leave those star trek dvds in their cases and join the rest of society rather than complaining about how the world dosn't fit with what you want

    For the majority (probably vast majority) Windows fufills the average persons requirements

    I use whatever OS (or archetecture) suits the task I am required to carry out (or am forced to use by my employers if it's work related). Therefore for most home use windows is the one to use, as my wife and kids can cope with it (and they can be easily talked through any issues they have if I happen to be at work)

    I have two machines at home and have better things to do with what little money I posess than buy another machine so I can run an alternate OS exclusively for myself. If anybody out there was stupid enough to support my wifes computer support, I suspect that you would abandon the world of Linux within 2 or 3 days of taking the role.

    Most people are not too worried about not being able to keep permanant copies of TV programmes as unlike the hygeneically challenged individuals who obcessively watch star trek / star wars /heros/ lost or Buffy they don't care if the programme wipes itself after 7 days. They have managed to watch the episode of "Permataned minor celeb cooks dinner for somebody who was almost on big brother" and doubtless will never want to watch it again.

    It's not microsofts fault that Lotus notes is usually crap (though inept administrators dont' help matters)

    Perhaps this is also microsofts fault http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/16/ubuntu_pulls_compromised_servers/

    Go and find something better to do with your lives please

  11. Roz Sermons

    Re: @Roz Sermons

    QUOTE: "Jeez, the freetards are out in force once more."

    Hey, I didn't say that it was a good idea. I was just pointing out an inaccuracy in what had been written.

    The content providers did not say to the BBC "Thou shalt used M$ and only M$" and there are always options.

    Personally I quite understand the impossibility of writing DRM that can't be cracked and I would question if any DRM isn't a waste of money for exactly the reasons specified by several people above.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Thanks BBC for iPlayer

    Thank you BBC for making this new service available to your customers, only if they are prepared to use an operating system on their computers that leaves them very vulnerable to viruses, spam and internet fraud. What have you got against the rest of your customers who are too sensible to do this ? Whatever it is, can you justify why we should continue to pay you a license fee when you are happy to develop new services and deliberately exclude us ?

    Most of us can survive without TV and I think that all of your customers who use Linux should do just this. Then, we will no longer be your customers and or have to continue paying you to develop new services that we cannot use. Perhaps the government will start to question seriously whether your license fee should be continued ? I think there are many who already know the answer to this question !

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    UK streaming video

    The British like windows it's mediocre, slow and expensive

    they have broadband it's slow and mediocre and expensive

    they have media player for streaming video and complain

    it's slow and mediocre and when they get the increased

    bill for the bandwidth they will complain it's expensive too

    what and doing nothing about it hasn't helped

    how surprising. Please don't try to help them they don't like it.

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