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Groundhog Day comes early as Intel Display Drivers give Windows 10 the silent treatment

malle-herbert Silver badge
Trollface

You're updating it wrong !

I'm sorry... got a little confused with Apple there....

Anonymous Coward
Anonymous Coward

I wonder how the amount of time/productivity lost due to failure to keep Windows updated compares to the amount of time/productivity lost due to SNAFUs caused by Windows updates.

Curious minds would like to know.

JLV Silver badge
FAIL

Win10 telemetry had one job. And it failed.

I have a win 10 laptop that hasn't been updated in 2 years. I rarely use it, when I do it's as a db server, there is nothing confidential on it and the whole thing doesn't venture outside its LAN. The biggest safety risk is my gmail login is saved in Firefox's password manager, password protected. FF is patched regularly and carries NoScript.

I do play games on it, it's originally a gaming laptop (very good choice for workstations profiles, IMHO. they're beefy, gamers value quality and they love modularity).

I'd say I don't really want to touch it much and 1809 is doing very little to motivate to think otherwise. I may actually install 1809 later, once all they've whack-a-moled at it sufficiently, it might actually be safer than betting on MS next build to be any better.

For my limited expectations of it, sure, leave it as is. If it was confidential, then that'd be different, but my biggest take on Windows and confidential is that they're best kept on different computers.

You know, this actually brings something to mind. OK, we get MS is "thinking outside of the box", QA-wise. We also get that the Insiders, whatever their (few) merits, sucks at doing QA. Or being a meaningful force for user feedback. We get that bugs were filed throughout at 1809, but no one in MS bothered to really follow those through. There's a crisis brewing at MS and they don't know to make things right.

But... wasn't that the whole point of telemetry?????? Avoiding all the crap like 1809 because we are so instrumented that MS will KNOW something is wrong? With no need for insiders or followed-through bug reports.

Wasn't that what - most unwillingly - giving up our privacy was all about?

Christian Berger Silver badge

Re: Win10 telemetry had one job. And it failed.

"But... wasn't that the whole point of telemetry??????"

Why do you asume that it's for quality control? Why would Microsoft care about quality at all? I mean they had a short time when they cared about quality and every developer had to fix bugs before writing new code. That happened in the early 2000s, just after Windows XP. Although it was most likely a coincidence (Vista) managers probably see that as the reason why sales slowed down afterwards, so they do a U-turn.

Herring`

Well, if you don't update Windows then you have a possible risk from malware. If you do update then it's a probable risk from shitware. Not updating is safer.

Fred Goldstein

Re: Win10 telemetry had one job. And it failed.

How do you keep a Windows 10 system from auto-updating itself? I thought it didn't let you block updates. I am sticking with Windows 7 Pro, which lets me decide when, and if, to update. I leave tasks up overnight, a lot of things on my machine, and an update would bork the work I have left open (not everything wants to be saved all the time, especially if you are still working on it, and some applications don't auto-checkpoint). So I don't want an OS that would break my work because it has decided that a new version is out there. If I could tame Windows 10 that way, a newer machine would look more attractive.

dajames Silver badge

Re: Win10 telemetry had one job. And it failed.

Why do you asume that it's for quality control?

Microsoft have always claimed that quality control was part of the reason for having telemetry in the first place -- it's their excuse.

While most people recognize that Microsoft may have other reasons for spying on their users, it's reasonable to hope -- not assume -- that there may be a bit of quality control going on as well.

mark l 2 Silver badge

Re: Win10 telemetry had one job. And it failed.

"How do you keep a Windows 10 system from auto-updating itself? I thought it didn't let you block updates."

There is no official way to stop feature updates installing themselves on Home/Pro versions. But you can set your internet connection to metered. This stops it downloading the feature updates automatically but still downloads security updates. I think you will only get security updates for 18 months from whenever the version your currently on was released doing this though, then you will have to update to a new feature update to carry on getting security patches.

I have also found that it won't install feature updates automatically if you have less than 10GB of free space on your device. Which bearing in mind some entry level Win10 tablets only come with 32GB of internal storage which about 12GB is taken up with just the Windows OS. So once you have put on a few programs you can find you have less than 10GB of storage available quite easily.

h4rm0ny Silver badge

Re: Win10 telemetry had one job. And it failed.

It's hard to blame MS for trying to force updates on non-Enterprise users. The overlap between those who would disable automatic updates and those who would complain about something not working on their systems is pretty much a 1-to-1.

If you want to have managed updates, that's really an enterprise thing.

steviebuk Silver badge

Re: Win10 telemetry had one job. And it failed.

The way I've done it on my VMs, but it does require a domain setup :), is to set a group policy to point Windows updates to a non-existent WSUS server.

Tom 35 Silver badge

Re: Win10 telemetry had one job. And it failed.

For a classroom image that gets re-imaged every week, so there is no need to have it update. I have a custom event filter in Task Scheduler that watches for the windows update service starting and kills it. It is a cludge but it works.

Howard Hanek
Unhappy

Yes I Had a Problem

The USB speaker platform I use with my HP Elitebook for demos just would not work. It took several hours and quite a bit of effort to get it working no thanks to MS who totally Borked the drivers in Windows 10.

Waseem Alkurdi

Re: Yes I Had a Problem

Unrelated. The issue is with Intel display audio, not USB.

Spacedinvader
Facepalm

Had this issue...

When they first released 10. MS kept updating my graphics driver and breaking hdmi sound. Got fed up saying leave my shit along, it works. Reinstalled 7.

DailyLlama
WTF?

Office 2010

Why is anyone still using Office 2010 anyway? It's not like it'll even connect to Exchange servers anymore...

Mage Silver badge

Re: Office 2010

Yes, Office 2003 was last decent version. LibreOffice is better.

Why do you want to connect a document creation system to a bloated buggy Email & Appointments server?

Mark 85 Silver badge

Re: Office 2010

Why is anyone still using Office 2010 anyway? It's not like it'll even connect to Exchange servers anymore...

You just answered your own question It's because it's NOT connected any MS Exchange servers.

Nate Amsden Silver badge

Re: Office 2010

not sure what version of exchange like functionality Office 365 has but I have outlook 2010 on windows 7 connected to office 365 no issues., have been since at least 2013 I think, prior to that the company I am at was using hosted Exchange at Rackspace and it worked fine there too.

official support looks to conclude in Oct 2020 (updates etc). Haven't heard/seen anything saying when or if outlook 2010 will stop working with office 365 exchange.

Most of my email is done via Outlook web access from Linux but I do keep outlook running 24/7 in my windows VM sometimes it is useful.

Captain Scarlet Silver badge

Re: Office 2010

Yup still use Office 2010 at home and no I'm not updating as only use it on the odd occassion.

Only reason I don't use Office 97 was Office 2010 was offered by MS as part of the volume licensing deal at work for I think it was a tenner.

Anonymous Coward
Anonymous Coward

"Why do you want to connect a document creation system to.[...]"

Because it does offer features LibreOffice and a simple mail server can't still match?

Of course when it doesn't crash on startup... <G>

irrelevant

Re: Office 2010

I use it, simply because I paid real money for a however many licence many years ago. I see no reason to throw more money at Microsoft when we only use Word/Excel maybe a couple of times a month, and other parts way less. It still works, does its job, and the family are familiar with it.

Zippy´s Sausage Factory
Meh

Re: Office 2010

Why is anyone still using Office 2010 anyway? It's not like it'll even connect to Exchange servers anymore...

I'm using Office 365 and frequently have the same problem...

Captain Scarlet Silver badge
Joke

Re: Office 2010

Oh are you an Office 362 user (I think El Reg is now down to that number)

big_D Silver badge

Re: Office 2010

We are still using it and it is connected to our Exchange Servers.

It still connects perfectly well to Exchange servers of the same vintage.

grumpy-old-person

Re: Office 2010

If you are not using the more esoteric features of Office then give FreeOffice a try - you will be pleasantly surprised , and it's fast.

If you are impressed and want more functionality then go for the paid version which gives 5 licences for a very reasonable price.

J. Cook Bronze badge
Flame

Re: Office 2010

Why is anyone still using Office 2010 anyway? It's not like it'll even connect to Exchange servers anymore...

It *does*, but you have to install at the very least a service pack for Office 2010 along with a handful of patches. At least that's what I spent 9 long, painful, stress-filled months trying to tell our in-house support team, whose primary action for anything outlook related is "escalate the ticket to the Exchange admin". (which is me.)

Outlook not connecting? send it to the exchange admin. User can't connect to exchange through outlook because their account's been locked out in AD? Send it to the Exchange admin. User can't send an email with an attachment that's 523246871454233154 Mbytes? Exchange admin. User can't send or receive email because they've used 5 GB of their 1.5 GB mailbox quota? Exchange admin. Computer on fire? Exchange admin. Computer spewing neon green slime and asking for the Keymaster of Gozer? Exchange admin!

(Yeah, I'm more than a little sick and tired of the 'it MUST be a problem with the exchange server' excuse.)

Version 1.0 Silver badge
Unhappy

Freeoffice et al

None of these alternatives have email client - the only reason we have Office 2010 on our machines is because we all use email and occasionally need to open a word document or excel spreadsheet - that's very occasionally, we use email all the time but there's no alternative to Outlook.

Bruce Ordway

Re: Office 2010

>> Office 2003 was last decent version

I agree, I still use version 2003 on my personal workstation.

While I do use newer versions at various sites I work with.... so far I have not been not impressed by most of the new features. No compelling reason to upgrade here.

In fact I wonder if there is any room for Office products to change in any significant way?

dbtx Bronze badge

None of these alternatives have email client

There are standalone email clients in the world. You didn't mention whether there was any indispensable feature that depends on bundling or even integration with an office suite.

acousticm

Re: Office 2010

Oddly enough, my outlook 2010 happily connects to my exchange server.

Given the ugliness of 2013 and 2016 i'd much prefer to stay on 2010 if at all possible.

Danny 14 Silver badge

Re: Freeoffice et al

exchange 2019 doesnt support outlook 2010 but 2016 does. We are now actively looking at transitioning from MS office to libreoffice and using OWA for email with our exchange server. Afterall, if you use office 365 then it is browser based anyway so why not just use OWA? Apart from additional CALs it will be significantly cheaper for us in the longer run.

Anonymous Coward
Anonymous Coward

Re: Freeoffice et al

I've never used Outlook on my own machines.

In my experience, Thunderbird is more useful than Outlook, even though we have a bunch of people to support email at work. There are features with Thunderbird that are not available from our enterprise outlook solution, at least in our not small (thousands of users) organization... like standard end to end encryption that can be used with people outside our system.

Add a cleaner interface, a raft of optional configurations, high speed, trivial setup for multiple offline mail backups, easy setup for multiple email accounts and servers... I wouldn't use Outlook if it were free.

Tom 35 Silver badge

Re: Office 2010

No, it's 2007 Outlook that they broke for O365. 2010 works for a bit longer.

Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
Thumb Down

MS : From bad to worse to pathetic

This has gone way beyond a joke now. Their cockups are causing people all over the place to spend hours (often uselessly) fixing their problems and MS does not care one little bit.

If this was Apple their stock price would have dropped by 5% at least but as this is MS people who decide these sort of things just shrug their shoulders and give them the benefit if the doubt yet again.

What we need is a large business to issue a profit warning or worse due to thee issues caused by the frankly shoddy stuff that MS calls software they shove over the wall with them saying 'there you go' while they run for the hills.

bombastic bob Silver badge
Unhappy

Re: MS : From bad to worse to pathetic

Yes. After THIS many failures, it has stopped being funny, and has NOW graduated to PATHETIC. And, PITIFUL. And, SAD.

Micro-shaft, GET A CLUE, will ya? Stop 'majoring in the minors' and GET BACK TO BASICS.

You know, like it was with 7. And XP. All of that 'feature creep' in Win-10-nic, and you can't even get the BASIC FEATURES (intel drivers) right. *FACEPALM* "Ay,yay,yay,yay,yay..." (like Desi Arnaz used to do on 'I Love Lucy')

An updated version of 7 (just tweeks for new hardware), with an extended support period. That'd be worth purchasing. Hint.

Dave K Silver badge

Re: MS : From bad to worse to pathetic

"What we need is a large business to issue a profit warning or worse due to thee issues caused by the frankly shoddy stuff that MS calls software they shove over the wall with them saying 'there you go' while they run for the hills."

Not going to happen. Large businesses are often way behind the home-user peons that MS uses for testing. By the time most of them look to roll out 1809, many months will have passed and the bugs will probably have been patched by then. The "very large" company I work for are still on 1703 for most users - those that have Windows 10 that is. I very fortunately had my laptop refreshed one month before they rolled out Windows 10, so I've still got another good 15 months of reliable Windows 7 on my work laptop.

a_yank_lurker Silver badge

Re: MS : From bad to worse to pathetic

This will only happen when one of the nasties hammers an major company. This would need to be a nasty that would not be caught by alpha/beta testers aka home users. This is a scenario that will almost certainly happen as alpha testers will not be testing most enterprise features. When it does watch for a nasty, noisy lawsuit that will be widely covered.

Voyna i Mor Silver badge

Re: MS : From bad to worse to pathetic

"If this was Apple their stock price would have dropped by 5% at least"

Actually Apple's share price has dropped 20% in the last month, 2.5% just today.

Why didn't Hitler ever travel on the Hindenburg? Because nobody wanted to let a prick near a balloon. Unfortunately several pricks in Silicon Valley seem to have combined to burst a bubble.

Martin Summers Silver badge

Re: MS : From bad to worse to pathetic

Any sensible business isn't rolling out the latest update anyway. You create a Guinea pig group in WSUS and unleash it on them when you've got no choice but to and hopefully when the worst of the crud is fixed.

Danny 14 Silver badge

Re: MS : From bad to worse to pathetic

1709 here, our first W10 was 1604. 1809 is being missed out of course, we have a while to see what the next whack-a-mole stable version is.

Mage Silver badge

Last time win10 affected me

It was the Intel/MS Mobo audio driver in a major windows 10 update. I solved it eventually by deleting device and pointing installer at windows.old

None of MS remedies worked.

Also had problems on Win7 & Win10 with Wacom tablet, Brother printers and Epson scanner.

All worked fine on Linux Mint. I did have to download the Brother driver from Brother, easy to find and their Debian installer tool worked perfectly. Recently added a new Brother MFC colour laser and was amazed that the scanner works on LAN to Linux Mint too (in GIMP via SANE). Mate Desktop, Traditional OK theme and some mods.

99.9% of what I do is on Linux now. Sadly some other people I know only use Win7 or Win 10.

Sureo

Is it still the case that consumer versions of W10 still can't turn windows updates off? I shudder to think.

Doctor Syntax Silver badge

"Is it still the case that consumer versions of W10 still can't turn windows updates off?"

Why would they let their beta testers not test?

Anonymous Coward
Anonymous Coward

Nor can they avoid signing over control of their computers and the contents thereof to Microsoft.

For a real horror story, read the W10 consumer EULA.

ivan5

One would think it is time M$ called a halt to the 'development' of 10. It was a nice try but doesn't really work, and start afresh with a completely fresh slate. Dump all the old bug ridden code from the days of 3.1 and the tacked on patches over bugs that are themselves patches for prior bugs, remove all the backdoors and telemetry code and produce a real UI that looks good and is practical.

If they managed that more people that have left the windows fold might think of returning. They could even consider calling the new OS 'doors' to remove the stigma of windows.

bombastic bob Silver badge
Unhappy

"start afresh with a completely fresh slate"

Please... NO! Not with *THIS* group of "developers". Look what they did to 8 and 10, when they had a perfectly good 7 that they could've just MAINTAINED.

I can't imagine the horrors of a 'start from scratch' based on their current history...

Anonymous Coward
Anonymous Coward

Bombastic Bob...

Even a stuck clock is right 2 times a day... XD

ThatOne Bronze badge
Alert

> One would think it is time M$ called a halt to the 'development' of 10. It was a nice try but doesn't really work, and start afresh with a completely fresh slate.

I don't know why everyone assumes their goal is to make a good, solid product they can be proud of. Preposterous. Their goal is to make money, lots of money, by any means, and the current situation already does that just fine.

Besides, why would they spend even a penny to reinvent an entirely new OS when their whole business case relies on compatibility with older Windows versions? It would be commercial suicide: They could make The Perfect OS, and yet nobody would ever touch it with a 10ft pole "because my programs don't run on it" - haven't you heard that tune already somewhere?...

The power of Windows is that it is Windows. And as long as it remains windowsy enough, users will accept everything Microsoft decides to do to them, because Windows is the only Windows. Amazing, when you think about it...

bombastic bob Silver badge
Devil

Re: Bombastic Bob...

one of my loving fans? THANK you!

Fred Goldstein

All true, of course, but a "clean slate" OS could simply be Windows. The Window OS "on paper" is not bad. Its nominal capabilities are pretty good and when it works it is pretty decently usable. The problem is quality control, with lots of old code and new code probably in conflict.

So if they took the official internal specifications (including the "secret" APIs) for Windows and had a team of good programmers write it from scratch, they could, at least in theory, get rid of the old bugs. However, there are a couple of problems with this idea. One is that new code brings along new bugs, and it would need a lot of debugging before it was safe to use. Two is that it would take too long -- isn't the WINE project, to implement the Windows API with clean code on Linux, somewhere around the Win2000 stage now, after maybe 20 years?

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