back to article Black Friday? Yes, tech vendors might be feeling a bit glum looking at numbers for the UK

Black Friday may take on a different meaning in 2018 as the consumer shopping bonanza looks set to be an utter flop in the largest economies across Europe. Based on analysis by CONTEXT of distribution sales volumes into retailers and web-based resellers across a "crucial" six-week period at the start of Q4, the sales growth …

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  1. Charlie Clark Silver badge
    Boffin

    Relief

    Here in Germany my inbox is blessed free from the e-mails touting tat that I don't want at any price. But it might just be that I managed to unsubscribe from all the notifications and GDPR mopped up the rest.

    Who am I kidding? Bound to the calm before the storm…

    1. big_D Silver badge

      Re: Relief

      Wiso on ZDF (German equivalent of BBC2) on Monday said that prices generally spike for Black Friday, being cheaper up to October, then increase in November, go back down a bit for Black Friday, then sink back to normal levels in December and plumet in January.

      They found there were one or two products that were actually cheaper on the day, but the majortiy were either the same price or more expensive than in October.

      1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

        Re: Relief

        I thought Germany had strict laws on sales - as to what prices you could charge and how often you could have them. Or does that only apply to actual shops? Or thinking about it, that knowledge is 20 years old - have they changed the rules?

        1. Spazturtle Silver badge

          Re: Relief

          Most countries have laws like that, it's just that companies ignore them. Very few people put the effort in to trace prices and file complaints, so they largely get away with it.

        2. big_D Silver badge

          Re: Relief

          This was a survey of online and bricks and mortar. I'm not sure how close to the line the stores were playing and whether they were contravening the relevant laws. I didn't watch the whole thing, because I was busy doing other things and I knew about the lack of real offers already, so I don't know if they said that they were breaking the law or not.

        3. Charlie Clark Silver badge

          Re: Relief

          I thought Germany had strict laws on sales - as to what prices you could charge and how often you could have them.

          It used to: sales were limited to winter and summer but the rules were relaxed about 20 years ago so it's pretty much like the UK with sales all the time, with the best deals obtained outside the sale period…

          1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

            Re: Relief

            Charlie Clark,

            Thanks. I'm out of date then.

            I'm still hoping to get to a sofa / bed shop on a day when they're not having a sale of some kind. Then I'll know that I've either won at life, or the apocalypse is about to happen, so it doesn't matter.

            1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

              Re: Relief

              I'm still hoping to get to a sofa / bed shop on a day when they're not having a sale of some kind.

              So you've come for a long wait have you? Please take a seat…

            2. katrinab Silver badge

              Re: Relief

              You go to the DFS central warehouse and ask for the product you want at reception. Then they will give you it at full price.

      2. Tomato Krill

        Re: Relief

        Which magazine found similar in an article published this or last month's issue

      3. jelabarre59

        Re: Relief

        I remember in the early 1980's when we usually didn't see family until early January, we'd do shopping for them the day *after* Christmas. Stores would be nearly empty (of people that is; back then B&M stores still believed in actually stocking product rather than stupid displays that just waste floor-space).

  2. Korev Silver badge
    1. 0laf
      IT Angle

      I have bought a few things as a result of the sales.

      I changed my mobile phone contract but it was a deal to existing customers which was better than the Black Friday offerings. I only looked becaue of the sale notice.

      But I did get a new shower tidy for £20 less. Struggling on the IT angle with that.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I saw a ludicrously good sim only phone contract offer this morning ( 200G/month for an 18 month £20 contract, including unlimited calls and tethering. Virgin if you're interested. )

        Mostly I've got exact model numbers of what I'm after and I'm waiting to buy them if they come down, or next week if they don't.

      2. eldakka
        Coat

        But I did get a new shower tidy for £20 less. Struggling on the IT angle with that.

        IT angle: Isn't that used as phone/tablet holder and charging rack for use while in the shower?

      3. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        But I did get a new shower tidy for £20 less. Struggling on the IT angle with that.

        Somewhere to hang your waterproof shower speaker so that you can hear all the server alerts?

        (I have a few more straws to clutch at..)

    2. JetSetJim

      I'm interested in a PS4 Pro, but not in a hurry to get it so I installed an "Amazon price tracker doodad" into Chrome (Keepa, FWIW). Current price of the latest model (without the noisy fan that bugs people, apparently), bundled with Red Dead Redemption 2 is £384 - £400. Coincidentally it rose to that price 4 days ago after having languished at £350 for a month.

  3. BigSLitleP

    If they actually wanted to sell more kit during this sale period, maybe they should actually drop the prices during the sale period? Just a thought.

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Why? That just means selling less at other times and selling the stuff for less: cashflow now at the expense of profits. Sales should be about clearing inventory such as last year's models to make room for new magical tat.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Sales should be about clearing inventory such as last year's models

        Well, that's what we'd like, but I think the concept died out along with department stores.

        For anybody who works in retail, having a sale now means simply a period of business as usual pricing (or add a bit extra on top) accompanied by intense and mendacious marketing.

        1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          mendacious marketing

          Oxymoron alert!

          (Marketing is the team that hold the customer down while sales screws them..)

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Maybe the UK isn't the best exemplar, right now.

    If people are being told it's probably best to stockpile medicines and foods, then they're probably less interested in discount gadgets. Although I may have missed a best-seller with a "Brexit Countdown Clock" that reaches zero on 29th March 2019.

    1. Captain Scarlet
      Mushroom

      Re: Maybe the UK isn't the best exemplar, right now.

      citation needed

    2. MyffyW Silver badge

      Re: Maybe the UK isn't the best exemplar, right now.

      I have a Remain clock that is completely accurate, but only two-and-a-bit years after the event.

    3. Nifty Silver badge

      Re: Maybe the UK isn't the best exemplar, right now.

      "I may have missed a best-seller with a "Brexit Countdown Clock" that reaches zero on 29th March 2019"

      Did you meant this one, that's guaranteed to stop when an actual real Brexit is reached?

      http://longnow.org/clock/

    4. Rich 11

      Brexit Countdown Clock

      I thought there might be a market for a Brexit Advent Calendar, with doors for each day of March hiding little chocolate figurines of prominent campaigners representing both sides: David Cameron carrying a pig's head, Boris Johnson wrapped in a UKIP flag, Gina Miller trying on a judge's wig, etc.

      The one for the 28th is a figurine of Nigel Farage, appropriately enough laced with cyanide.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I just want to hibernate from October to Dec 26th and miss all this Christmas crap, humbug.

    1. katrinab Silver badge

      My first sighting of Christmas stuff this year was on 13th June.

    2. jelabarre59

      I just want to hibernate from October to Dec 26th and miss all this Christmas crap, humbug.

      Why stop in the middle of Winter? Just go all the way to March 1.

  6. Dan 55 Silver badge

    Yet to be convinced black Friday makes sense...

    The Christmas shopping's got to be done anyway, so lowering prices just means retailers make less money shifting the same stuff.

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: Yet to be convinced black Friday makes sense...

      Black Friday makes sense in the US. Because people have the day off. So it became a time that they did online Christmas shopping - after the Thanksgiving madness. And I think Cyber Monday was a thing for the people who'd browsed on that Friday and over the weekend to then do the buying on the office PC on Monday morning. Much better than working... The trick is putting in deals on the more expensive stuff that people might not otherwise buy, so you're upselling. Or in the case of Amazon - selling people Kindles and Echoes cheap, so you can lock them into your ecosystem.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Yet to be convinced black Friday makes sense...

        I might be wrong, but IIRC "Cyber Monday" was- even in the US where the Thanksgiving context made sense- somewhat exaggerated and manufactured from the very start.

        Its supposed basis was that users were window shopping online on the weekend- back when most people still had slow Internet at home (I assume this means dial-up)- then using high-speed Internet at work on Monday to order things.

        This doesn't make sense- if your connection is good enough for browsing, isn't it good enough for ordering anyway? Not to mention that if it ever had a reason to exist, that's pretty much gone, since most people have fast broadband connections nowadays.

        But it doesn't matter so long as companies have another excuse to obnoxiously commercialise and overhype the weeks leading up to Christmas.

    2. Spazturtle Silver badge

      Re: Yet to be convinced black Friday makes sense...

      New products generally come out in the Spring, so during this fiscal quarter they want to start shifting as much as they can, black friday, christmas sales, new years sales, ect. They are all methods of getting rid of old stock before the new products come out, if you wait until the new products launch next year you can get much better sales on the current stuff.

    3. a_yank_lurker

      Re: Yet to be convinced black Friday makes sense...

      As I write this, it is Thanksgiving in the US. A holiday the vast majority have off with pay and those that are working often either get a extra money and possibly reduced hours. Many will also have Friday off as a holiday (4 day weekend automatically) or will take a vacation day tomorrow. So many will be off tomorrow also. So tomorrow (Friday) is a good day for sales as most will have the day off and can shop.

      In the US the traditional start to the Christmas season is the Friday after Thanksgiving. For sometime retailers have been kicking off the holiday season with special sales on Friday. It is called 'Black Friday' according to lore because many retailers need the holiday sales to have a profitable year (hence 'in the black'). It is traditional in the US for Christmas decorations to go up after Thanksgiving.

      Trying to import holiday practices such as Black Friday ignores the US context where it does make sense (sort of at least) over here. It would be like having the US observe Boxing Day because it is done in Europe when the US tradition so far ignores it completely.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Yet to be convinced black Friday makes sense...

        You don't do boxing day???!!!

        but it's part of christmas!

        1. martinusher Silver badge

          Re: Yet to be convinced black Friday makes sense...

          >You don't do boxing day???!!!

          Its a Canadian thing. (They also have their Thanksgiving in October. On a Monday.)

  7. ParperQParpington

    Well what do you expect

    If you schedule a sale on the Friday a week BEFORE pay day

    1. Carrot007

      Re: Well what do you expect

      I got paid today.

      Are you such a muppet you think everyone gets paid at the same time?

      Also do you not have any savings?

      Still is bollocks though.

      1. katrinab Silver badge

        Re: Well what do you expect

        Most people get paid towards the end of the month. Tomorrow is the second last Friday of the month, and earlier than the average pay day.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Well what do you expect

          > Most people get paid towards the end of the month.

          Prove it otherwise that's just anecdotal?

          Current job 15th (or earlier if that's on a weekend), previous job 22nd (again earlier if that fell on a weekend).

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Stop trying to make "Black Friday" happen. It's not going to happen.

      You know, I've been thinking about this.

      It's *almost* as if Black Friday- which only arose in the US because of their timing of Thanksgiving celebrations and the associated holidays- doesn't make any fucking sense in a market where people don't even celebrate Thanksgiving, and that's why it didn't arise organically.

      And it's *almost* as if its "arrival" here in recent years was- and continues to be- an obnoxiously forced contrivance introduced purely to serve the needs of retailers wanting to create some artificial excitement around bullshit "sale" events by mimicking the Americans.

      And it's not doing so well ths year? Oh, that's so sad.

      FOAD Black Friday, you won't be missed.

      1. martinusher Silver badge

        Re: Stop trying to make "Black Friday" happen. It's not going to happen.

        My daughter spent a couple of years working in Romania and there she found 'Black Friday' deals on and off from about September.

        Importing US national holidays into the UK seems to be the fault of the Chinese. They make all this holiday crap anyway and the US being a much bigger market than the UK it makes sense to try and push Halloween (US version) onto the UK rather than Guy Fawkes Night (or the proper version of Halloween). It doesn't make any sense for the British especially as holidays like Thanksgiving are essentially anti-British (it celebrates the arrival of some people fleeing religious oppression and stuff....which is actually total BS but the US isn't that good at teaching history and every nation needs its creation myths). So turn your back on this sort of thing; anyway, its pointless doing 'Christmas shopping' these days because those that can afford it either don't need it, already have it or can buy it using one-click from Amazon and everyone else can't so they're better off not spending what they don't have.

      2. ds6 Silver badge
        Megaphone

        Re: Stop trying to make "Black Friday" happen. It's not going to happen.

        In Finland retailers started doing Black Friday deals some years ago to follow the trend. Here's what the owner of the largest army surplus store in the country—possibly all of the EU[citation needed]—said about it:

        https://www.varusteleka.com/en/group/black-friday/2274

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    November 23 is Buy Nothing Day

    Search 'buy nothing day' on an engine of your choice.

    1. phuzz Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: November 23 is Buy Nothing Day

      If you think I'm not buying booze on a Friday after work, then you've severely underestimated my alcoholism.

      1. eldakka
        Pint

        Re: November 23 is Buy Nothing Day

        If you think I'm not buying booze on a Friday after work, then you've severely underestimated my alcoholism.

        If you were truly dedicated, there'd be no "after work" in "buying booze on a Friday..."

      2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        Re: November 23 is Buy Nothing Day

        then you've severely underestimated my alcoholism

        Or overestimating your ability to plan stuff in advance :-)

  9. illuminatus

    Yeah, thanks...

    Black Friday - the boffo shopping splurge day after Thanksgiving.

    We don't do Thanksgiving, so thanks but no thanks for Black Friday too. Stick it.

  10. The Central Scrutinizer

    An American sales bonanza

    Yawn....

  11. Daniel Hall
    Thumb Down

    It's because

    We're not stupid, well, some of us arent.

    Oh look this soundbar is on a black Friday deal, 30% off you say?

    When in reality that soundbar was increased in price nearing 30% on the run-up to the sales.

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