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Remember when Apple's FaceTime stopped working years ago? Yeah, that was deliberate

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What if I have an iPhone 3GS? IOS 6 is as far as I can go.

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Probably wouldn’t be eligible to be party to the suit. FaceTime was never supported or enabled on the 3G S. The first iPhone with a front facing camera was the 4.

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Anonymous Coward

or the iPod Touch n

8 years ago I and my siblings all bought iPod Touches (none of us had any interest in an iPhone back then -- I still don't!) to keep in touch via facetime with our terminally ill mother when we weren't there looking after her (there was always one or two of us there at any one time). It worked well and I'm grateful for that, especially over her last Christmas. She died before the certificate expiry so it wasn't a real problem for us but those iPods never had an iOS 7 release. Apple completely screwed over the main selling point of those devices with no route to fix or workaround it. Trying to use facetime it would pop up a warning saying you had to upgrade to iOS 7 with a button... which took you to another warning saying iOS 7 wasn't available for that device.

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If you have a 3GS then you don't have a front-facing camera. So FaceTime has never, ever been available to you.

It's really only iPhone 4 customers who have been artificially deprived.

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Unhappy

Give and Take

...let a digital certificate expire prematurely which broke the video-conferencing service for anyone using version 6 or lower of iOS.

Wow, a built-in Apple controlled self-destruct.

What exactly did your purchase buy? Apparently not any fixed function.

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Re: Give and Take

Apple are still way better than Google in that department. Your Android might get one or two updates if you are lucky, and Google regularly discontinue producta, even ones that people pay for.

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Re: Give and Take

Likely to change now with Project Treble and Android One. Although if you had a Nexus (or now, I suppose, a Pixel) you would get updates every month.

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Flame

Re: Give and Take

"Apple are still way better than Google in that department. Your Android might get one or two updates if you are lucky, and Google regularly discontinue products, even ones that people pay for."

In what way is this actually better? While nothing lasts forever, at least if you have an Android phone, you're not getting actively screwed by having to choose between either doing without a key feature or having your device run much slower. At least you can count on the features you had when you got the thing still working, even if no updates are being made after a certain point. If your Android device gets 'orphaned', at least you're not being "encouraged" to buy another phone by strong-arm tactics and then lied to about it.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Give and Take

"Apple are still way better than Google in that department. Your Android might get one or two updates if you are lucky, and Google regularly discontinue products, even ones that people pay for."

In what way is this actually better? While nothing lasts forever, at least if you have an Android phone, you're not getting actively screwed by having to choose between either doing without a key feature or having your device run much slower...

Neither are really better. Software wise, android is slightly better because the user has the highest opportunity to do stuff it themselves (custom homescreen/ launcher, sideloading, rooting, custom rom, lineageOS). So technical android users can get their stuff working for a very long time, and developers can get their app tested faster. However hardware wise, apple limited phone variation and apple store support will be far better to get a device fixed. Not to mention, the guarantee security patches from Apple.

So if I have to recommend to a casual, it would be an iPhone, even if I use an android, solely because of the ease to get an iPhone hardware fixed at a price (at a very high price).

On topic, even though I don't like it apple force iOS upgrade, it's just the reality of casual not doing their own fixes, so Apple has the control to do it. If they can do their own fixes, they should get their lineageOS android.

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Re: Give and Take

Give and take? WTF?

Your comment is incredibly inaccurate.

Android phones are easy to root so you can upgrade & even downgrade any version you wish.

At least with Android, you actually OWN the device you pay for.

Additionally, Android phones receive support for up to 3 years. NOT one or two updates as you claim.

I am not even a fanboy. I use an iPhone myself only because my work pays for it.

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Re: Give and Take

"Additionally, Android phones receive support for up to 3 years. NOT one or two updates as you claim."

Unless something has changed remarkably in the last year or so, the level of support offered clearly depends upon the phone type (cheap vs flagship) and the phone manufacturer. I've been an Android user for a long time, and my Samsung phones are the only ones I've ever had that have received any updates at all.

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Re: Give and Take

Not everyone likes updates. I've had too many phones that have been super speedy when new, yet have become slower and more stuttery with every update. Nowerdays, I often avoid major OS updates on my phone and have a 3 year phone which feels as speedy as when I bought it as a result. Seriously, what does Oreo (for example) do so wonderfully that I'm missing out on with Marshmallow except (inevitably) run slower?

Back with iOS, when I had an iPhone 3G, I deliberately kept it on iOS 3.1.2 as it ran like an absolute turd with 4.0.

And anyway, this is about Apple taking functionality that worked under iOS 6 and disabling it not long after iOS 7 came along. I don't recall Google disabling features on earlier Android phones the moment they release a new version?

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Re: Give and Take

How many chat services have Google launched and discontinued now? I’ve lost count. So the one that came with your phone probably doesn’t work any more.

Yes, you can install WhatsApp and most people do. You can do that on an iPhone as well.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Give and Take

Samsung phones are the only ones I've ever had that have received any updates at all.

---

I have had updates for my HTC, Motorola, and Huawei phones and my Nexus and Asus tablets, and keep getting them for any currently used products.

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Re: Give and Take

" At least you can count on the features you had when you got the thing still working"

What are you talking about? I have an Android device right here where the YouTube app is saying I need to upgrade the app in order to watch videos, but the new app doesn't run on this device.

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Re: Give and Take

Both my ancient Samsung phone and my Asus tablet, which is about 4 years old, got updates about a year ago. Not as frequent as Apple, but not abandoned either. And lately it seems like the next iOS update is to fix bugs introduced in the last iOS update..

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FAIL

Re: Give and Take

"Apple are still way better than Google in that department. Your Android might get one or two updates if you are lucky"

Nope, Android and iPhone are serviced totally differently, and Google are light years ahead of the system image model that Apple uses, where you load a system image, and all your apple apps get updated in the process.

In Google's world, this would never have happened. Duo, Allo and Hangouts all ship with the phone (or call be installed if not), and are updated REGARDLESS of how old your Android device is. Hangouts works all the way back to Android 2.2

Perhaps actually look at a premium Android device before deciding what Apple told you was the truth

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Youtube App

That's a third-party App so I wouldn't count that as the "features you got when you bought the phone".

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Give and Take

They did chat about 15 years ago, but they had already retired the tech and merged that into Hangouts by the time it even made it onto Android (admittedly they were still running under the Talk name). Since then they've relaunched Hangouts as Google Meet, but it's still exactly the same product under the brand name.

So, in summary, one

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Re: Youtube App, @ David Nash

I humbly disagree. At least on my phone, the YouTube app (by Google, the maker of Android) is baked into the OS. At least to the extent that while it can be disabled, it cannot be uninstalled by the user. I think that qualifies it as a "feature you got when you bought the phone", rather than a third-party app.

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Stop

Re: Give and Take

"Not to mention, the guarantee security patches from Apple."

weirdly, most half decent Android devices get security patches just fine. It's that idiot users don't understand the difference between a full OS upgrade, and a security patch.

Most vendors are pretty good these days at supplying security patches for shipping OS. (and most of them are on Google's Enterprise programme that guarantees max 90 day lag). Notably, Samsung aren't on that list...

I really DON'T want a full Android OS that slows my device like iOS updates do. I'm perfectly happy with the Android, way, as I don't need full OS updates, as all my system apps are always updated by Google Play store... Full OS really doesn't matter on Android, as long as you get security updates (which as I said, most do). Sadly, none of this fits with the stories that Apple created to allow it's owners to have a warm fuzzy feeling inside that their £1000 purchase was worth it, and none of this fits with the clickbait stories that are pushed by the media who's only income is from adverts on sensational stories.

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Re: Give and Take

> my Samsung phones are the only ones I've ever had that have received any updates at all.

Not in my experience. My HTC Wildfire, Huawei G300 and Y300, and my current phone, the Moto G5, have all received updates (okay, only the Moto has had any in the past year).

My Samsung Galaxy S5 and Tab Pro have never so much as received a single update. Thankfully most apps still run on KitKat, as that tablet is, in itself, quite a nice bit of kit

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Re: Give and Take

"My Samsung Galaxy S5 [...] never so much as received a single update."

Hmm, clearly there are still differences in support, maybe as a carrier or by country? I thought the updates these days came directly from Samsung?

My S5 Mini received a small update when I got it, shortly after a full OS update to bring it to Android 6. Then it had two more security updates.

This is about the same story as my S7 which I think started with Android 6, updated to 7, and is now on 8 (I believe the last major update this phone will get) with various patches and fixes along the way; though I've noticed that my older phones (the ones still stuck on Android 2.something) seem to require full OS reflash to update, while the newer phones can perform incremental patches, plus a number of the usual apps can be updated via "an app store".

This last point is perhaps the biggest change from my experience with Apple. Safari cannot be updated, email cannot be updated, etc. But on my S7, Samsung might have stuck their branding all over the bundled apps, but there are updates available in the Galaxy Store for a number of them. Right now the email client, file explorer, and stock browser have updates pending. The browser I'll update soon (I use Firefox so it's not important) and the others... I'll update if I notice any bugs. Given updates often take away as many features as they add, I'm not of the mindset of updating just because there's an update. And certainly not without making a copy of the previous app's APK so I can rollback if necessary.

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Stop

Re: Give and Take

But google are honest like that. They are openly telling you that some phones won't upgrade and the latest may get a couple of updates if you are lucky. They have said in that past some flavours will not jump upgrades and some phones won't even touch some upgrades.So you basically know what you enter into when you get one.

Also the argument is and always has been the manufacturers that are the problem of bringing updates in a timely fashion, not google. They are the ones that are slow to bring to market any updates.

They don't lie about it to customers.

Caveat - I think Google is appalling for a whole heap of other reasons.

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Megaphone

How do I get my money back?

I have an Iphone 4 that is stuck in "upgrade jail", since the iOS 7 upgrade the thing pretty much stopped working.

If I find a friendly Californian can they claim back the money and send the phone back to Apple for a refund, when the court case comes to fruition?

Incidentally when I complained about the phone's problems a couple of years ago on Apple public forums, I was told it "couldn't happen" and sent packing with a flea in my ear. FUCKING LIARS THE LOT OF THEM.

I feel a bit better now.... nurse, the screens!

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Re: Youtube App, @ David Nash

Maybe my phone is a couple of years older or maybe it depends on your phone brand. Mine has an "uninstall" option.

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So there's fanbois who don't run out when a new iphone is introduced and buy it? I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.

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I'm not sure I'd call myself a fanboi, but I have a "three year" policy. I bought an iPhone 4, and upgraded to a 5S about three years later. That in turn got upgraded to a 7 two years ago, so the next upgrade won't be before this time next year. Well, unless they do something daft like raising the minimum size. A 7 is just small enough to fit in my front pocket.

And the Watch probably won't get upgraded. If it breaks or otherwise stops working, I'll go back to dumbwatches.

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”Cupertino idiot-tax operation“

Grow the f*ck up, Kieren.

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I must admit I was getting a tad weary of the 'Cupertino idiot-tax' line a while back.

But given recent product releases and associated pricing I say:

Keep it the f*uck up, Kieren.

The phrase seems more relevant now than ever.

And judge Lucy Koh seems to be handling a lot of major cases quite sensibly from what I read on El Reg.

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It's a legitimate description of their business.

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I for one...

Welcome the red-top-rag click-bait merchant's witty one liners - biting not just the hand that feeds it but often taking the upper arm too.

Keep it the f*ck up good people.

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Sorry, they deserve it this time for trying to throw out the lawsuit with their "We can do what we want because you accepted the T&Cs" argument.

Idiots.

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"Sorry, they deserve it this time for trying to throw out the lawsuit with their "We can do what we want because you accepted the T&Cs" argument."

Not disagreeing that's a twattish move and deserved to be kicked out, and I also sincerely hope they lose this lawsuit. My (well documented and long running) gripe with 'Idiot-tax corporation' is that it's an insult to their customers, not the company itself - and given that people have a perfect right to buy whatever the f*ck they like, including shiny beads if they so wish, I believe it's out of line to call them idiots.

And if you do call them idiots, then everybody who buys a BMW, a Nespresso, a bottle of single malt, a piece of branded clothing, anything from Coca-Cola, Lindt chocolate, a Samsung phone or TV, any celebrity chef-branded meals, posh furniture, Philips Hue, Bose headphones, Microsoft Surface, Bauknecht or Miele white goods, a Dyson or BASICALLY ANYTHING THAT'S SOLD THROUGH ADVERTISING, is also an idiot. Because for 90% of our purchases it's possible to buy something cheaper that more-or-less does the same job, but you know what? It's none of your, my or anybody elses' business whether people buy the cheaper version or the more expensive one, and it doesn't make them an idiot for doing it.

So I say again, this time with feeling; El Reg can f*ck right off with their 'idiot-tax' bollocks.

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Um. Calm the f*ck down....

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re: Um. Calm the f*ck down....

... Francis.

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Trollface

Re: re: Um. Calm the f*ck down....

Do none of you know how to properly spell "fuck"?

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Re: re: Um. Calm the f*ck down....

"Do none of you know how to properly spell "fuck"?"

Course we do, but we didn't want to overreact.

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Anonymous Coward

ANGRY ANGRY ANGRY!

ROAR ROAR ROAR!

That's the problem with a constant drumbeat of outrage. Once the emotional powder is expended on the trivial, now that something truly outrageous is reported all I can do is shrug.

Apple apples. Meh.

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Re: ANGRY ANGRY ANGRY!

Well, you can always post on twitter to keep the flame alive.

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You get what you pay for

That’s how free markets work. You bought a combination phone/paper weight and it still is. Reading the EULA tells you your gadget is practically guaranteed not to work as advertised so take heart these two primary functions probably still work.

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Anonymous Coward

Really?

In April 2014, the Cupertino idiot-tax operation

The people who buy Apple kit are all idiots then?

I buy and use Apple kit for many reasons but hardly ever new unless I'm in places that have no VAT/Sales Tax.

Over almost two decades I have had far fewer issues with it than with anything running software from Microsoft that I had to use for work.

But I given your all embracing description I really am an idiot and my PhD in Non-linear Control Engineering means nothing. Time to retire the idiot tax banner?

I much preferred Foxconn-reseller as a derogatory term myself.

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Re: Really?

"But I given your all embracing description I really am an idiot and my PhD in Non-linear Control Engineering means nothing."

PhD or no, that sentence wants commas.

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Happy

I much preferred Foxconn-reseller as a derogatory term myself.

Cute.

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Holmes

Re: Punctuation

They have obviously been to lawschool as well where using punctuation is beaten out of you because of possible misinterpretation.

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Re: Really?

Another proof that all the academic titles in the world aren't enough to protect a frail ego, which will still be hurt even by things such as a tongue in cheek jab primarily aimed at the frail ego's preferred gadget maker.

BTW, I'm not sure if mentioning Microsoft is at all relevant in this context, unless your work (presumably) in the field of non-linear control engineering limits your personal phone options to either Apple or Microsoft.

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Silver badge

Re: Really?

Ahem... I also have a PhD and I'm totally cool with the sobriquet as given by the author, and as it is widely used amongst other journos on board the good ship El Reg.

In fact, it's these cutting little sarcasms that in my opinion make the site all the more fun to read.

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Silver badge

Re: Really?

I only got an A in GCSE physics. Obviously this means my opinion is not as important as those who have a PhD.

So, I too, will add my .02% of value to this and state that as an Apple user, I think idiot tax is perfectly acceptable nomenclature for the price of Apple shiny.

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Re: Really?

Bravo Kieren, you've got a bite!

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Re: Really?

the amount of PhD's that argued against the monty hall problem really put into perspective how little touting having a PhD means to me.

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