'Men only' job ad posts land Facebook in boiling hot water with ACLU

Re: Didn't ElReg just have a story about women-only coding camp?

Yes and no. It would be similar to a men only nursing or childcare course. It is a course, not a job, and I would have enjoyed having some courses without girls.

On the other hand, there are a number of scholarships that are open only to women, and this I find a bit more difficult. Yes, you want to have more women in academia in science. This is however much too late. When young girls always get told they don't have to be good in maths because they are girls - quite often by their moms - then it is no wonder they don't study physics etc.

Another thing I saw: most of my female fellow students left after their MSc for high paying industry jobs. That's more intelligent than continuing in science.

Re: Didn't ElReg just have a story about women-only coding camp?

If the point behind your anonymous comment is that the ACLU only ever take on cases that reflect some left-wing bias of theirs, I can assure you that they don't.

For example, right now they just filed suit in support of the NRA against the state of New York.(link). They came out in support of the white nationalists' right to protest in Charlottesville (link). Those are just two recent examples. If you want to go further back in time, they even defended Col. Oliver North in the Iran-Contra scandal. (link)

So, less of the cheap shots, eh?

Re: Didn't ElReg just have a story about women-only coding camp?

Back to the point, El Reg has indeed attacked women-only job emails before.

Re: Didn't ElReg just have a story about women-only coding camp?

"How is a men-only job ad any different than a women-only event of similar nature?"

a) Because a job ad is different from a coding camp

b) because if it's simply one job ad, the applicant can apply for any one of hundreds of other jobs, but if Facebook is allowing the automation of thousands of job ads, potentially every job with a given company or sector, then the applicant cannot apply for any jobs.

Incidentally in many parts of Europe, the title of every single job add is followed by (m/f) in brackets (or the equivalents abbreviations of male/female in whatever language is being used). I'm not sure if that is through practice or law

Re: Didn't ElReg just have a story about women-only coding camp?

Coz there are already defacto male only events/posts, they may not be advertised as male only, but because discrimination is a real thing, they turn out that way. If discrimination wasn't a huge issue, you'd have a point, but as it is, you don't.

Do you see women only job postings you'd apply for in fields you don't think you'd get a job in otherwise unless there were men only postings?

Re: In the current environment, women are too much of a business risk..

@AC - "Given that women

* Work less hours on average

* Get sick more often

* Take more leave days overall

* Are the overwhelming majority of sexual harassment complainants

* In manual labour jobs, get injured more seriously, more often

* Are the majority of OHS complainants

* Are more likely to leave after having kids, and never come back.

etc etc

Why WOULD you hire them?"

Even if your claims are true, it doesn't mean that a woman's productivity is any worse than a man's. If they work fewer hours, they get paid for fewer hours, and might be producing more because of less fatigue. Someone who complains about OHS might be reducing your overall injury rate and associated costs compared to people who put up with a dangerous situation. And leaving to have kids sounds like a positive advantage to employers who want to fire their expensive, experienced staff and replace with cheaper new hires: age discrimination by the back door.

Re: In the current environment, women are too much of a business risk..

"* Are the overwhelming majority of sexual harassment complainants"

We've discovered that our factory is poisoning a nearby river, so we've decided to solve the problem by getting rid of the river.

Re: In the current environment, women are too much of a business risk..

I've left jobs after 2 years, plenty of men do, what does the reason matter? In fact, it would be considered very sensible to keep your options to keep your career moving along. Companies don't consider staff if it affects their bottom line, why should employees consider companies if things are better somewhere else?

You're sexual harrasment mention is a joke no?

Re: In the current environment, women are too much of a business risk..

@AC the point is, we are meant to spread the risk. Men can get sick, women can get sick, men are more likely to do something risky and get killed, women are more likely to get pregnant and have kids. By spreading the risk and never discriminating by sex/gender/whatever it's called these days, we give fair and equal opportunities to everyone. We can pick and choose to some extent i.e. only hire people qualified to do the job, but we have to stop discriminating based on gender, race, etc.

However, the problems start when you run a small business. You can't afford to spread the risk between men and women. Women *are* more likely to get pregnant and have kids, so do you really want to spend time training and money investing in someone who is likely to be a drain on your resources?

By the way I don't speak to my sister either.

Re: In the current environment, women are too much of a business risk..

Wow, you're a massive sexist. Congrats.

Re: In the current environment, women are too much of a business risk..

@AC

a number of your claims were already challenged/debunked above, but I do want to focus on this one...

"* Are the overwhelming majority of sexual harassment complainants"

I think it's far worse for a business to hire someone who sexually harasses other employees than hiring someone who might complain they're being sexually harassed. Yes, women are the overwhelming majority of sexual harassment complainants because of a small but significant minority of men behave like pigs.

Unfortunately many companies still find it OK to tolerate their male employees behaving like teenage frat brats with fantasies of living in a porn movie just as long as their star trader, coder or whatever is kept happy.

Re: In the current environment, women are too much of a business risk..

I shouldn't bite and others have responded more effectively than I can to your allegations. All I will add is that one anecdote does not a trend make. Whether the story about your sister is true or not you cannot extrapolate her alleged behaviour to all women in the workforce.