back to article Muslim American woman sues US border cops: Gimme back my seized iPhone's data!

An American woman is suing the US government's Homeland Security and Customs and Border Protection to get the data border agents copied from her phone. Rejhane Lazoja said that when she landed at Newark Liberty International Airport on February 26 after a nine-hour transatlantic flight, she was subjected to a secondary …

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  1. ratfox
    Trollface

    Can I also have my drawing of a spider back please?

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    There are zero rights at the border...

    And "the border" extends inland by 161km, thus the "no rights zone" is covering about 80% of the entire population.

    It's pure comedy.

    1. Mark 85

      Re: There are zero rights at the border...

      It's pure comedy.

      Indeed, but without the laugh track.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        without the laugh track

        ...which is good, because being reminded that that something was supposed to be funny, or someone assuming that I need to be reminded, is not funny.

    2. Mike 16

      Re: There are zero rights at the border...

      Note that "inland" is a bit of a misnomer. The "border" (and Constitution Exclusion Zone) surrounds any airport with at least one international flight. I don't know how frequent that flight has to be. Maybe they just have to launch a yearly weather balloon headed in the general direction of Canada or Mexico?

      All your rights are belong to U.S.!

      1. Ian Michael Gumby
        Boffin

        Re: There are zero rights at the border...

        I think you're a little naive about this.

        Show me a country where they don't have the same right to question and search you and your things.

        Some countries are more advanced than others so YMMV.

        Rejhane Lazoja said that when she landed at Newark Liberty International Airport on February 26 after a nine-hour transatlantic flight, she was subjected to a secondary screening by CBP agents who, over the course of the inspection, seized her iPhone 6S Plus.

        So where had she been? The article doesn't say anything other than she came to the US off a trans Atlantic flight.

        Imagine that you have an arrest record for being caught with a joint, plead guilty and then paid the fine. Now you travel to Japan only to be turned away at the border because of your drug conviction...

        Even the UK has turned away American celebrities over jail time or over prior drug convictions in the US.

        The point is that every country has similar rules/regs that limit your freedom at the border.

        Oh and BTW, even at the airport, you won't be stopped unless its coming off an international flight.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. Stork Silver badge

          Re: There are zero rights at the border...

          "Show me a country where they don't have the same right to question and search you and your things."

          The UK is to my best knowledge unique among European countries in that you can get jail for not providing a PW. In the US you do have the right to keep silent too.

    3. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: There are zero rights at the border...

      So in order to get out of the no rights zone you have to live in Deliverance land, where they all voted for Trump.

      Heads they win, tails you lose.

    4. ExSophist

      Re: There are zero rights at the border...

      As I undertand it, in the US the "no rights zone" also applies to inland international airports far from the physical border...so just being X miles or klicks from the border doesn't protect a traveler from such things.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

    UnTick american airlines and all possibilities of stopovers in any US city.

    Why?

    Who wants to deal with TSA, Border Control, US Immigration screening?

    Let Trump win, stop going there for tourism or conferences, if possible.

    It'll take months to get devices back and who knows what was slurped...

    After 2 decades I quit! The country is dying in a Fall of Rome moment.

    There's so many interesting places to visit on this rock. Go elsewhere!

    ~~~~

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-05-01/trump-visa-rules-hurt-international-tourism

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-27/u-s-travel-industry-fears-a-lost-decade-under-trump

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-17/how-to-reverse-america-s-foreign-tourist-problem

    1. Wzrd1 Silver badge

      Re: When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

      I'd do that, but I live in the US.

      But, I do have an upside. If they try to search my iPhone, it's protected and I'd have it wiped immediately *and* give the TSA a butt rash. The phone is a US DoD provided phone.

      I land, connect to the internet on my DoD provided computer and send a wipe signal to our specialized software.

      And coming to think of it, I'll store the PIN for the device on a classified network. Tell the TSA agent that the PIN is classified, which it then would be and if he or she insists, have them arrested for espionage.

      Which laughably, is literally the law in the US!

      1. AndyS

        Re: When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

        > Which laughably, is literally the law in the US!

        I thought the law stopped applying some time in 2016?

        1. james 68

          Re: When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

          Only if your rich, buddies with a Trump, or of Russian background.

        2. JohnMurray

          Re: When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

          #Fake_News

      2. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

        Tell the TSA agent that the PIN is classified, which it then would be and if he or she insists, have them arrested for espionage.

        No, what happens is you tell the TSA agent that the pin is classified and he or she gets out the rubber gloves and asks you to step this way please. They will make enquires as to whether or not you do work for the DoD afterwards.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

          That may not be wise, given this is the Department of DEFENSE (aka the military) we're talking here. It can get pretty nasty if two Cabinet departments become at odds, especially if one of them is Defense. I would think a counter to the threat of rubber gloves would be a threat to have a serious talk at the Pentagon about how TSA handles its people.

          1. SolidSquid

            Re: When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

            Could also be considered trying to obtain classified information through coercion, which would make it a *hell* of a lot worse for the TSA agent

          2. Fatman

            Re: When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

            <quote> It can get pretty nasty if two Cabinet departments become at odds, especially if one of them is Defense. I would think a counter to the threat of rubber gloves would be a threat to have a serious talk at the Pentagon a secluded Cuban resort about how TSA handles its people.</quote>

            There

            FTFY

        2. Ian Michael Gumby
          Boffin

          @Dan 55 Re: When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

          He's blowing smoke. (He's spouting nonsense.)

          First, its not TSA, but CBP. Two different agencies with different training and responsibilities. CBP carry guns. TSA agents do not.

          A TSA agent will not ask you for your phone or other electronic devices. In theory they could but when traveling within the states, you have certain rights that don't apply when entering the country.

          If the moke had a DoD provided phone, depending on where he was going... he would be told to leave the phone at home.

          If he had a DoD phone and a DoD id, he would not be hassled by CBP unless he did something stupid. (Which in this case.. sounds likely)

          Must be friends with that chick who just got 63 months for leaking files.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: @Dan 55 When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

            > Must be friends with that chick patriot who just got 63 months for leaking files. revealing to the American citizens how it was known that the Russians had been involved in election rigging, yet it was being covered up.

            FTFY

        3. LucreLout
          Joke

          Re: When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

          No, what happens is you tell the TSA agent that the pin is classified and he or she gets out the rubber gloves and asks you to step this way please. They will make enquires as to whether or not you do work for the DoD afterwards.

          That's just a normal part of the security approval process these days. He'll barely feel it ;-)

      3. Velv
        Big Brother

        Re: When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

        Wzrd1: “The phone is a US DoD provided phone.

        So no need for them to seize the phone at the border to copy the data, they already have access to it.

        1. JohnFen

          Re: When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

          "So no need for them to seize the phone at the border to copy the data, they already have access to it."

          I seriously doubt that the DoD and the TSA have that level of information sharing going on.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Wzrd1 Re: When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

        Funny, but you do realize that if you travel to certain locations... you don't take the DoD provided phone with you, right?

        Second if you use the DoD provided phone all of that information is already captured by the US Government, including your personal calls.

        Third, depending on why you have a DoD provided phone, you may or may not have a special passport so that when you travel, you have certain rights/courtesies extended to you.

        Fourth...you could be called out on your 'classified PIN' BS because you may or may not have the right to call something classified. Back in the day, had you done that... it would be grounds for you to lose your clearance and your job.

        And finally... do you think you fit the profile of someone that needs to be stopped?

        Personally, I've never had issues with CBP, or TSA.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @Wzrd1 When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

          And finally... do you think you fit the profile of someone that needs to be stopped?

          I got a bit of the extra search treatment going through security getting to a connecting flight in Atlanta en route from one US Army base to another for a security conference. I used my DoD issued ID when identification was required (it sped up processing). The full body scanner thing directed the TSA agent to search my ponytail. From a comment he made, that was the first time that had happened for him. I'm white, male and was dressed in business casual. Interesting profile match if there was one.

          1. Ian Michael Gumby

            @AC Re: @Wzrd1 When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

            So you got selected out randomly to do the full body scan x-ray?

            And your pony tail triggered it to be searched?

            Wow.

            I've been randomly selected. Not a problem except when my arm was in a sling post shoulder surgery.

            Now if I am randomly selected... I will have to be patted down and get the wand because I wear a Freestyle Libre glucose monitor on my arm and its recommended not to be exposed to x-rays.

            Big whoop. Add an extra 5 mins for security and you'll be fine.

            Oh and get a friggin hair cut you hippy, and stay off my lawn! :-P

      5. OldSod

        Re: When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

        I don't think the legal landscape is as wonky as suggested: "And coming to think of it, I'll store the PIN for the device on a classified network. Tell the TSA agent that the PIN is classified, which it then would be and if he or she insists, have them arrested for espionage."

        The simple act of putting the PIN on a classified network would not make the PIN itself classified (it would make access to the PIN through the classified network require a security clearance, but not access to it through other means). The PIN exists outside of the classified network, and no reason exists for the data that is the PIN to become classified. If merely storing data on a classified network made that data classified, then a lot of public domain news would be classified as it is ingested into classified networks for analysis and situational awareness. If the PIN was classified, it would be illegal for a cleared individual to use it on the phone itself, as the phone is not authorized for the storage of classified data.

      6. JohnFen

        Re: When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

        "I'd do that, but I live in the US"

        I have the same problem.

        "If they try to search my iPhone"

        Your solution to this is better than mine -- my solution is that I don't bring my phone on flights. I ship that ahead to my destination along with the rest of my "luggage", and carry a burner for emergencies. That way, nothing needs to be searched, nothing will get stolen or broken, and nothing gets lost along the way.

        1. Christian Harten

          Re: When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

          So basically, you behave like a criminal would to circumvent CBP violating your rights? That's bizarre.

          1. JohnFen

            Re: When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

            I actually started shipping my luggage ahead to my destination long before airport "security" became intolerable. It prevents my luggage from getting lost or damaged. I stopped taking electronics with me after it became clear that they actually were confiscating and/or copying the contents of devices. Using a burner during the actual trip is no big sacrifice, so why take the risk?

    2. Ian Michael Gumby
      Boffin

      Re: When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

      Funny, but all countries do this.

      You just have to tick enough red flags.

      I guess you don't travel enough and the paranoia is showing.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        'I guess you don't travel enough and the paranoia is showing'

        Name other countries that confiscate devices, and for months?

        1. Ian Michael Gumby
          Boffin

          Re: 'I guess you don't travel enough and the paranoia is showing'

          Really?

          Go down the list.

          Try going to UAE after visiting Israel on the same passport. ;-)

          It all depends on who you are and what passport you carry.

          1. Androgynous Cupboard Silver badge

            Re: 'I guess you don't travel enough and the paranoia is showing'

            Mr Gumby, we concede, you're correct. The USA has a similar approach to policing as the UAE. Finally something we can all agree on.

    3. GerryBerry

      Re: When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

      Hey, go ahead, travel the world! See first hand what a shithole the majority of the rest of the world is compared to the US! You guys have it sweet over there yet you don't appreciate what you've got.... 'til it's gone!

      So, travel the world! Get a yourself an education to the realities that other peoples have to endure, and think your lucky stars you were born in the USA.

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

        I have travelled the world.

        The country that I felt the least free in was the one that is always banging on about being the land of the free.

      2. Uncle Slacky Silver badge

        Re: When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

        That's some /r/ShitAmericansSay material there.

      3. JohnFen

        Re: When Booking-Travel now the first thing I usually do is:

        So, you think that as long as there are nations that are worse than the US, then everything is OK? I disagree.

  4. Chris G

    Class action

    If these searches taking place after Trumps presidential twittering are illegal and unconstitutional, perhaps everyone should join this lady in a class action against not only HS but Trump personally for issuing said unconstitutional tweet. Go for damages too.

    1. Ian Michael Gumby
      Boffin

      Re: Class action

      Wow. TDS is alive and well.

      You do realize that post 9/11 these laws were put in to place and existed under Obama. You can go back and google cases where people were being asked to unlock their smart phones.

      But hey!

      Lets not stop a good rant against Trump that isn't based on any rational thought.

  5. tiggity Silver badge

    Copyright

    If she had any music, video use the powerful US copyright laws to give them grief.

    After all, copying is theft according to big media companies.

    1. alain williams Silver badge

      Re: Copyright

      After all, copying is theft according to big media companies.

      But the media companies would probably sue you for making copyrighted material available; they will go after the easy target.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Copyright

      It's theft according to the Constitution and Law of the United States.

      You're just being selective which parts of the Constitution you wish to see applied.

      In addition:

      "Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author", according to the UN Declaration of Human Rights.

      So you're being selective about which Human Rights you want to uphold, too.

      Basically you're just being selective.

      1. JohnFen

        Re: Copyright

        "It's theft according to the Constitution and Law of the United States"

        No, it's really not. It's a violation of copyright law, but it isn't legally "theft".

  6. _LC_
    Flame

    Entering a country becomes more and more like entering a prison.

    :O(

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Re: Entering a country becomes more and more like entering a prison.

      Do not confuse entering the USA and entering any other country.

      Practically every single democratic country in the world is quite polite and somewhat subdued in its border controls - the USA is the only one I have ever been to to be so stuck-up and openly paranoid about visitors.

      And yet, they still come.

      1. My other car WAS an IAV Stryker

        Re: Entering a country becomes more and more like entering a prison.

        "[O]penly paranoid about visitors"?

        Paranoid of their OWN citizens, also.

        At a bridge border entry from Canada, my family (me driving) got told to pull over where directed, get out of the car, go in a building, and wait. The agents looked in the back of our SUV, saw it was chock FULL of luggage and personal stuff, but luckily also found my vacation planning binder, and decided all was okay and we could move on.

        I wasn't watching -- lest I appear even MORE suspicious -- so how do I know? First, they left the rear liftgate ajar (when it's full you have to SLAM it closed); second, the binder was between the front seat and center console, but they left it on the seat. Nothing else was moved, and at no point did they ask for our phones (or cameras, or the kids' tablets, or my wife's laptop -- most of these being put away together in a hard-sided case for protection and out of sight of potential burglars at rest stops).

        My wife may never joke about my planning, logistical, and documentation skills ever again. It's more than a good idea; it saved our butts!

        (We had a great vacation after that and didn't have any similar trouble at any subsequent crossings. This was only about six weeks ago, so I haven't made any crossings since getting home.)

      2. Ian Michael Gumby

        Re: Entering a country becomes more and more like entering a prison.

        As I said this before...

        Try visiting UAE after visiting Israel.

        1. Moosh
          Boffin

          Re: Entering a country becomes more and more like entering a prison.

          Try visiting India if you have Pakistani heritage. You will literally be denied a Visa.

          My manager was scheduled to go over for a business trip to visit Tata Consultancy Services. However, his heritage is Pakistani, and they refused his Visa, despite him being a UK citizen.

          Try visiting numerous middle eastern nations if you have previously visited Israel.

          My mother got questioned at Israeli passport control because she'd previously visited Egypt.

          Its fine to be judgemental when you live in a developed country with a lot of freedoms but if you actually travel it becomes blindingly apparent that many parts of the world are much more stringent, and not necessarily fair.

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