Bloke hurls sueball over Google's 'is it off yet?' location data slurping Google's creepy obsession with users' locations is to be challenged in court – a lawsuit has accused the search-cum-ads biz of unlawfully invading users' privates and intentionally complicating the opt-out process. The allegations were levelled at the company in a suit brought by Californian resident Napoleon Patacsil after …
"If it's not they'll pay the fine and find a way to keep on slurping up the info."
It's not just going to be a question of one fine (actually this is a civil suit so it's going to be damages); this is going to come up across multiple lines of business and multiple legislations. ISTR that this is already under attack in the EU in addition to a previous Schrems suit. India (India!!) is getting in on the act as well. You may think any of these are small in relation to the size of Google but cumulatively they're going to cut into profits unless advertising prices are raised. If advertising prices are raised maybe some advertisers are going to start looking more carefully at what they get for their money.
Even a huge EU GDPR fine may cost less than what they earn from the data.
Maybe once, possibly twice but thereafter, no chance.
The GDPR penalty scheme has increasing penalties for repeat offenders leading ultimately for persistent repeat offenders to the much proclaimed 2% of global turnover.
Even if so, and revenues != profit, so it's the profit that must be enough higher so the amount doesn't burns a huge slice of shareholders value... which means less earnings per share, and maybe a drop in shares value.
And the fine won't be a one-off if they persist in gathering data unlawfully.
Also,. that's just EU - what if other countries follow?
UK:
For a new user, the settings are fairly upfront although they dont (or rather didnt) specifically state that location was covered in "Web and App" activity. For existing users, same deal but you have to go in and out of pages several times to turn everything off. Takes about 3 to 4 minutes to do.
One thing I did notice is that new users who add a mobile number are also asked if they want to use it for security only rather than contacts list slurp etc. Didnt see that specfic setting for an existing user unless it was blanket covered by something else.
"Is it possible to have an android phone without linking it to a google account? I haven't bought a new phone in over 2 years and am looking at getting a new one."
Short Answer: Yes.
Long Answer: Yes. To use a new android phone without google account, simply skip the google account setup from the start. Keeping the internet off during the setup is recommended. To install app without google play, simply turn on the side-load option to enable apk app installation (under developer option or security option where it says allow installation of apps form unknown sources.)
However, some issues may come up for apps that depend on the Google play Services.
-If the app doesn't depend on Google play Services, then it will work with no problem, and a lot of apps don't depend on Google play Services.
-If the app need a Google app (usually for sign-in), then you might see popup asking for the Google app which are often skip-able.
-If the app depends on Google play Services and you have not root uninstalled it, then it will work.
-If the app depends on a new Google play Services and you do not have, then it will likely not work. However if you side-load install a new Google play Services version for that app, then the app will work.
-If the app depends on Google play Services and you have rooted and uninstalled it, then it will likely not work.
I just had a look on my Galaxy S6, pretty well buried under many layers and even then its not clear that location data is being controlled under "Web & App Activity".
It's clear that if user turns off location data I expect no more location data to be taken, so especially since Google first lied about it then tried to hide it, it's clear case against them. Of course, $L$A$W$Y$E$R$S$ will just try and drag it out for a few years till it's forgotten by most
"And if you turn off Location Saving and tracking in your Google account there are inconvenient side effects - like any linked Google Home devices suddenly becoming completely dumb until you re-enable the 'optional' settings."
Google Daydream will stop working to, though not Google Cardboard. According to Google, location services are needed to track the Google Daydream hand controller, a device that only reports rotation, not location.
Privacy / Destiny Is largely in our own hands though, if we choose it:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1. Swap Google for Startpage.com
Or Duckduckgo if you prefer (but it has ties to yahoo). Do it today!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
2. Swap Gmail for Signal (Whispersystems.org)
(Close or limit use of WhatsApp / Messenger / Facebook / Instagram)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
3. Android: Turn-off Location Services unless its unavoidable
Google still tracks you as shown below, but its not quite as easy.
www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/22/permissionless_data_slurping_google/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
4. Android: Sanitize phone: disable / uninstall spyware. Add Netguard...
If nothing else disable the proprietary closed-source scary sht like:
Google Play Services / Play Store / Google App - Maps - Keyboard.
Get all your apps solely from F-Droid.org / Fossdroid.com / Yalp etc.
Drop Chrome! Install Netguard non-root VPN to block the other apps.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
5. Never ever use Google / FB etc to Log-into any 3rd-Party services
Hard to do 100% and won't stop the glorious future awaiting us. Namely: 1st-Phase: matching / targeting ads. 2nd-Phase hoovering up cc financial-transactions / patient-health info. 3rd-phase involvement in every single transaction or event people have in their lives: Big-Data - AI -Algo - Automation.
Does your child get to have the surgery they need? Do they get a place on the college course they deserve? Do they get the job they long for? Do they get a loan to buy a dream home? Who can they get to date? Do they routinely get arrested because a pre-crime system keeps flagging them up in error etc etc?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44466213
For sure. I meant 'Gmail to Signal' when trying to convince friends, family, colleagues to move more personal discussions off Gmail to Signal etc. Many won't drop Gmail altogether anyway, as even plane tickets have to go somewhere etc.
And that raises a question. Can you say more about using ProtonMail in practice. Its free for most people, right? But everyone has to be using it, correct? Therefore it still won't replace email anyway and booking travel etc. Cheers for info!
It's an email webmail client with a JS wrapper around GPG. It recently passed a security audit.
It's email, so you don't need the other parties to use it, although if you want encrypted comms they have to use GPG either via Protonmail or somewhere else (including their own desktop GPG install). So it's much more fitting into the gmail use case, just without scanning.
And yes, you can get plane tickets etc to it.
"I meant 'Gmail to Signal' when trying to convince friends, family, colleagues to move more personal discussions off Gmail to Signal etc."
Even so, those are two different sorts of programs that do two different things. One cannot really substitute for the other.
@JohnFen With respect gotta disagree... In the past they were but not so much now. That's one of the things that's changed with trends and cultures. Use of WhatsApp in Latam and EU (in certain parts) is considerable. So much so its done away with email in many work and social environments. UK/US/Auz not so much though...
Is WhatsApp really replacing email in corporate environments? I would have thought that the accountability and archivability of email is not yet matched in something like WhatsApp. I can see where it might replace IM systems like Lync/Skype but I can't imagine the email in my work inbox being replaced by WhatsApp anytime soon because it's just so fundamentally different as a platform.
We're talking about two different things here. I was commenting that email and instant messaging are two fundamentally different things that are intended to solve fundamentally different communications problems. That is just as true today as it was 10 years ago. There are numerous things I do every day with email that I cannot do with instant messaging, and vice versa.
You're talking about popular use. A valid topic of discussion, but very different from the one I was engaging in.
@JohnFen @Jack 12
'You're talking about popular use.' / 'Is WhatsApp really replacing email in corporate environments?'
Listen, it sounds nuts I know, but try and appreciate that the economies in Latin America are much more informal than what we're used to in EU/US etc (expat living in region for a decade).
While Banks don't conclude entire deals on there (paper contracts are still alive and well), use of WhatsApp is widespread in all types of businesses at all levels including corporations. So its way beyond just popular, its arguably irreplaceable.
Personally I fear it, as Facebook plans to pry open WhatsApp messages (both founders left recently because of this). So I wish people would switch to Signal etc. But its a hard sell when so many pervasively use the other. There's little awareness here of what happened with Facebook/CambridgeAnalytica / Palantir etc.
ALL of Google's opt-out procedure is intentionally complicated. You have to press zillions of buttons to switch everything off. And it doesn't seem to matter how many times you do it, it all comes flooding back the next time you use their site!
This is also true for most other web sites out there that like to collect your data.
I think the GDPR peeps missed a trick here - they should have stated that opting out must be as simple as opting in.
As for the web activity and apps thing; I have looked everywhere on my phone and can't find it (android 7). Google can be useful but it is not your friend.
Settings > Google > Google Account > Data & personalisation tab > Activity Controls box > Web & App Activity setting.
Although you should disable everything once you get to Google Account.
I think the GDPR peeps missed a trick here - they should have stated that opting out must be as simple as opting in.
I think it's being left to the lawyers.. who won't miss a trick, if it's possible to turn that trick into large fees. So given Alphabet's currently a large and lucrative litigation target, expect more cases. And it's not so much GDPR folks missing tricks, more Google.
Key part of GDPR is informed consent before personal data is collected/processed. Google rarely bothers with that, so I haven't consented to whatever fonts.googleapis.com, googleanalytics.com or googletagservices.com is trying to communicate with me this session. And as I actively try to block those, that suggests I'm not likely to consent in a hurry. But Google's very much hotel California in that it seems to assume you're always opting in, and can't leave.
I think the GDPR peeps missed a trick here -
IANAL, I could be completely wrong, after that disclaimer, I believe under GDPR if you contacted Google and told them you withdraw consent from the tracking, that would be sufficient notice of "withdrawal of consent". You are not obligated to follow the burdensome procedures that they put in place. If they are still tracking you after that then they could be in breach of GDPR.
I noticed a couple of times that there seems to be a series on downvotes on commentards, just the odd one or two on *all* the posts. Which suggests that someone who takes a weird dislike to a particular set of articles or a bot that attempts to alter the appearence of consensus.
El Reg - can you confirm if there is some weird activty on all comments in a short space of time?
Is it the Russians?
Or is there a greater conspiracy involving google? Or maybe Russian Google staff?
Googley Bear.
We should ask Julian for his take on this.
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