back to article I see a satellite of a man ... Galileo, Galileo, Galileo, Galileo, that's now 4 sats fit to go

Unperturbed by posturing in the UK and EU, the European Space Agency has welcomed the latest pair of Galileo satellites to its spaceport in Kourou, French Guyana, ahead of a July launch. Galileo is Europe's global satellite navigation system. Satellites 25 and 26 will join their siblings, the imaginatively named 23 and 24, …

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  1. TheProf
    Joke

    Receiving the signal

    Will I need a new phone/sat nav to use this new system or will it be easier to just move abroad now?

    1. Lee D Silver badge

      Re: Receiving the signal

      I believe for consumer purposes, you won't notice any difference if the UK is involved or not. Like you can already pick up GLONASS and everything else if your phone supports it, the core product for the public is out there and usable.

      However, you need a phone that supports GLONASS, they aren't (I believe) transmitting a plain GPS (as in the US GPS system) signal, they transmit their own.

      The next-gen of phones will likely all support GPS, GLONASS and Galileo. Whether it will make your satnavving any more accurate is questionable, really. It's supposed to but I doubt you'll see much practical difference.

      The real problem is that we'll have to pay through the nose to use the interesting stuff (commercial, military, etc. for everything from planes to cruise ship).

      1. Ochib

        Re: Receiving the signal

        Navstar s the name of the American system, not GPS. GLONASS, Navstar and Galileo are all types of GPS.

        1. Francis Boyle Silver badge

          AIUI

          Navstar is the name of the American satellite system that provides the GPS service. The user facing service has always been referred to as "GPS" (or possibly "Navstar GPS" if you want to be very formal). It would be indeed be a good idea if people started referring to it as Navstar, but good luck in getting Americans to do that.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Receiving the signal

          If we're going to get picky on naming then the generic term is GNSS.

          There's also the Chinese one as well of course.

          It'd be pretty unlikely that all of them would be disabled simultaneously, and if jammed the encrypted signal would be jammed too, so it's really not that big a deal.

        3. Cuddles

          Re: Receiving the signal

          "Navstar s the name of the American system, not GPS. GLONASS, Navstar and Galileo are all types of GPS."

          That's exactly backwards. The American system is explicitly called the Global Positioning System; Navstar was an old name that is no longer used. GPS, GLONASS, Galileo and others are all satellite navigation systems (GNSS is the usual abbreviation for "Global Navigation Satellite System"); only one of them is called GPS.

          As for the question about whether you need a new phone, it probably depends on how old your phone is. Galileo and newer GPS satellites are designed to be easily compatible so at least in the future most devices will support both by default. For now, all the separate systems require a separate receiver, so you need to check which ones they can actually use. GLONASS support is fairly common in addition to GPS, and Galileo isn't too unusual, so it's quite possible a current phone will work them all. Beidou and NAVIC are currently only regional, so you're unlikely to find support for them in phones not sold in the relevant regions.

          1. Daniel 18

            Re: Receiving the signal

            "For now, all the separate systems require a separate receiver, so you need to check which ones they can actually use. GLONASS support is fairly common in addition to GPS, and Galileo isn't too unusual, so it's quite possible a current phone will work them all. Beidou and NAVIC are currently only regional, so you're unlikely to find support for them in phones not sold in the relevant regions."

            Actually, if you look at the specifications for the available smartphones, most of the new ones have support for A-GPS, GLONASS and often BDS (see phonearena or gsmarena for specs on many phones). A few phones can receive Galileo, but it seems to be fairly uncommon.

            I have some hopes that Galileo may be added to that list, but currently chipsets and integrated tri-band antennas for the three bands used by the A-GPS, GLONASS and BDS GNSS systems are widely available.

            Given that there are a billion or more people in China buying smartphones, and most of the phones are built there, I expect that those three will remain the 'standard' set. It is possible that the Chinese government may even quietly encourage all phone manufacturers to include BDS.

            BeiDou-3 currently has 9 satellites up, with 35 planned by 2020, giving global coverage. India's NAVIC and the Japanese QZSS are regional and likely will be ignored by most chipsets and most phones sold outside those regions.

            If Galileo has sufficient advantages or can be added at insignificant cost it will likely become the fourth 'customary' GNSS in most devices.

            A hypothetical British GNSS would probably come in after the other minor systems, given relative populations and sizes of economy... in other words, unless it can be handled by a receiver designed for one of the three or maybe four major systems, it will be a regional specialty item in phones and GNSS receivers.

    2. SamX

      Re: Receiving the signal

      We already have Galileo support in newer phones - such as the OnePlus 5T. It depends on the underlying chipset. Almost all phones would support it later this year I hope. By using multiple systems (GPS, GLONASS, Galileo) and triangulating the signal using software we can achieve a high location accuracy.

  2. JassMan
    Joke

    Tic Toc

    Reading the article made me think that the whole reason for Brexit and refusing the jurisdiction of the CoJ was so we could say "warranty., what warranty?" on the clocks. Turns out however that they Swiss made by a company that has gone into liquidation rather than pay up.

  3. smudge
    WTF?

    What's in a name?

    I don't really give a toss, but how come the "UK's winner" is the name of the patron saint of another EU country?

    Couldn't we have got something more appropriate? Like "Dick", or "Billy-No-Mates".

    1. Mage Silver badge

      Re: What's in a name?

      Patrick was British. :)

      1. Primus Secundus Tertius

        Re: What's in a name?

        @Mage

        Patrick was neither Roman nor Greek. In Roman eyes he was therefore a barbarian.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: What's in a name?

          So an immigrant, Welsh and then a refugee ! splutter !

      2. anothersortofleave

        Re: What's in a name?

        Patrick was Roman.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: What's in a name?

          Patrick was Roman.

          But a non-dom living in tax exile in Wales

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What's in a name?

      If it is renamed "Hans" - will the next two be "Knees" and "Bumps"?

      1. Hans 1
        Happy

        Re: What's in a name?

        Well, since I am British, a British Hans ... Hans is OK by me ... then again, we will probably keep Patrick and replace the Union Jack with trídhathach na hÉireann on the vessel ... would make them more than happy ... as for the Hans hands pun, well ... it is getting old ... but I really like this one:

        When I get out of my car, it is Hans-free.

    3. hammarbtyp

      Re: What's in a name?

      how come the "UK's winner" is the name of the patron saint of another EU country?

      You do realise that the English Patron saint was Roman soldier of Greek origin hoisted on the population by nordic invaders based in France don't you?

  4. peter_dtm

    We should just take our toys now, get with the Commonwealth and create a decent Newton constellation- after all, the Commonwealth is global and very diverse, unlike some other local small minded wannabe super states

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Perhaps the Commonwealth countries wanted independence for a reason? I don't think the Windrush countries will be out in the streets welcoming our one and only aircraftless carrier.

      1. peter_dtm

        Um, having GAINED independence the Commonwealth countries VOLUNTEERED to join the Commonwealth. It is so well thought of that non Empire countries ask (& are allowed) to join.

        Perhaps not everyone is aware of what the Commonwealth is ? (& does)

        1. Dan 55 Silver badge

          My point was, why do you presume that they're all queuing up to trade with the UK? The UK can't dictate terms, they may trade with the UK if it's advantageous for them.

          And why do you think time has stopped still? They're in their own local trading blocs now, only the UK has found it necessary to leave its own trading bloc in a moment of national madness.

          And finally their markets aren't big enough to replace the EU.

          1. peter_dtm

            Growing markets ( because time hasn’t stood still)

            We have a negative trade balance with a shrinking market.

            And yes, when we left the Commonwealth trade block and joined a customs union it was indeed a moment of national madness, the lies told then were as bad as the lies told now.

            1. Dan 55 Silver badge

              Myths of Commonwealth Betrayal: UK–Africa Trade Before and After Brexit

              Abstract

              This article critically interrogates claims that a British exit from the European Union (EU) (Brexit) will create opportunities for the UK to escape the EU’s apparent protectionism and cumbersome internal politics in order to pursue a more liberal and globalist trade agenda based on the Commonwealth. Taking a historical view of UK and EU trade relations with the Commonwealth in Africa, the author highlights the way in which the incorporation of the majority of Commonwealth states into the EU’s preferential trading relationships has reconfigured ties between the UK and its former colonies over time. Further, the author suggests that the EU’s recent attempts to realise a vision for an ambitious set of free trade agreements in Africa—the Economic Partnership Agreements—was disrupted not by EU protectionism or internal politics but rather by African resistance to the EU’s liberal agenda for reciprocal tariff liberalisation and regulatory harmonisation. The UK therefore faces a complex challenge if it is to disentangle its trade relations with Africa from those of the EU and to forge its own set of ambitious free trade agreements with African Commonwealth partners.

              1. peter_dtm

                So the EU agricultural tariffs don’t exist ?

                1. Dan 55 Silver badge

                  So the EU agricultural tariffs don’t exist ?

                  Did you not read it? In trade negotiations, the EU proposal was to drop tariffs but African countries wouldn't.

              2. This post has been deleted by its author

            2. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

              Re: the lies told then were as bad as the lies told now

              Did they promise an extra £350M/week for the NHS?

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: the lies told then were as bad as the lies told now

                Did they promise an extra £350M/week for the NHS?

                No, and nor did the Brexit bunch. It's just remainer FUD.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: the lies told then were as bad as the lies told now

                  https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-statistics-authority-boss-disappointed-at-boris-johnsons-350m-nhs-claim-11040516

                  1. Dan 55 Silver badge
                2. This post has been deleted by its author

                3. Teiwaz

                  Re: the lies told then were as bad as the lies told now

                  Did they promise an extra £350M/week for the NHS?

                  No, and nor did the Brexit bunch. It's just remainer FUD.

                  No, you are right, they didn't. They did strongly allude to it though. Which is much the same when it comes to broken promises and campaign lies.

                  It's not really Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt, more easily spotting something that's at best underhand manipulative and at worst an outright lie.

                  Not that the remain campaign didn't twist things as well though.

                4. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  " nor did the Brexit bunch. It's just remainer FUD."

                  Wasn't there a bus with large friendly letters?

                  1. Dan 55 Silver badge

                    Re: " nor did the Brexit bunch. It's just remainer FUD."

                    They are two completely distinct sentences with the second not mentioning how much the NHS should be funded. Apparently.

                    But pay no attention to the poster next to Boris Johnson...

                    1. codejunky Silver badge

                      Re: " nor did the Brexit bunch. It's just remainer FUD."

                      @ Dan 55

                      "But pay no attention to the poster next to Boris Johnson..."

                      Ha! He is a numpty. At the start I expected the official leave campaign had been intentionally set up as a trojan horse to give the gov the result they wanted. That is until I saw the campaign on both sides. I dont think either of them did anybody proud.

      2. JohnMurray

        Not aircraftless...got two now...they flew over a week ago...

    2. peter_dtm

      Hmm, the down votes I presume are for pointing out that the Commonwealth is larger and more diverse (& tolerant & a far larger market & mostly lacking in ant-Democratic edicts and directives)

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        No, the downvotes are because a) it's a smaller market than the EU and b) they're not waiting for the UK to flounce back and assume its rightful place at the head of the table. Empire is over, those days have been and gone.

        1. peter_dtm

          India

          Pakistan

          Bangladesh

          South Africa

          Australia

          New Zealand

          Canada

          Zambia

          Caribbean nations

          Pacific nations

          Growing market unlike the shrinking EU.

          How many people in the Space faring, aircraft carrier, nuclear nation that is India ?

          With a growing market ?

          1. smudge
            Boffin

            How many people in the Space faring, aircraft carrier, nuclear nation that is India ?

            About 1.35 billion. With an average annual income of $1,670 in 2016.

            The population of the EU is around 510 million. With an average annual income in 2017 of $21,340. (Highest income - Denmark, $43,454. Lowest - Bulgaria, $5,700.)

            I know which I'd rather trade with.

            1. LeeH
              Mushroom

              Oh, The Magic of Clockwork Theory Strikes Again

              If only economics worked like clockwork. A magical clockwork world wherein the number of people in a trade bloc is the same as the number of people who purchase goods and services from member nations of the trade bloc. Such a place where, for instance, 510 million people can all be counted as 510 million actual customers who actively purchase from, say, the UK.

              Funnily enough, except for the history and antics of man (and woman), the real world does not work like clockwork.

              510 million people do not automatically constitute 510 million paying customers for each member nation of the EU. No one is so entitled to believe they have the automatic right to count population stats this way.

              The economy's health is dependent on partners that trade with it and not on the fancies of statisticians who point at numbers and conclude "There! There they are! 510 million people and all of them will purchase at least something from the UK each week"

              Much better to have real and confirmed businesses plus real and confirmed people who will purchase our products and services than to have a set of numbers of prospects of which fewer than 10% might purchase goods and services from us. And, yes, I am aware it runs both sides of the Brexit debate.

              So, I think you can tell what I think of your 'But, but, but there are 510 million people in the EU who earn between $5,700 and $43,454 per annum who will prefer to order sugar from us via Amazon or eBay instead of loyally walking to their local corner shop to enjoy a quick cig and a natter with their neighbours.'

              That $43,454 figure is a bit too precise for my liking.

              What you actually need to consider is how many people and businesses in the EU actually purchase from the UK and invest in the UK, how much of this collective transaction can EU bureaucracy interfere with, what's left of that calculation that favours the UK, how much will non-EU trade and investment bring to the UK, and what's the then total trade balance? Compare that balance with the existing balance to decide whether leaving the EU is a net benefit or gain to UK trade and industry.

              Alternatively, show your lack of education and life experience, rely on hysterical loops, and try to predict economics with Clockwork Theory.

              In any case, Brexit is not purely about economics.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Oh, The Magic of Clockwork Theory Strikes Again

                @LeeH

                "In any case, Brexit is not purely about economics."

                In the history books, it will be.

              2. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Oh, The Magic of Clockwork Theory Strikes Again

                I love your last sentence, basically 'I know my economic argument is rubbish but... don't forget the racism'.

                Brexit is purely about harking back to a mythical golden age. The thing about mythical golden ages is they are mythical.

                1. LeeH

                  Re: Oh, The Magic of Clockwork Theory Strikes Again

                  "Brexit is purely about harking back to a mythical golden age. The thing about mythical golden ages is they are mythical."

                  That is kinda funny because the only people I know who talk about the mythical golden ages are Remainers; and they are increasingly anonymous cowards.

              3. H in The Hague

                Re: Oh, The Magic of Clockwork Theory Strikes Again

                "... how much of this collective transaction can EU bureaucracy interfere with?"

                Ermm, you are aware that India is hugely bureaucratic, are you not? Bureaucracy which the UK has no say in, unlike the EU bureaucracy? And has barriers to trade which are not going to disappear just like that (esp. under the current Indian government)?

                What products/services is the UK more likely to be able to sell to Indian customers than EU customers?

              4. JohnMurray

                Re: Oh, The Magic of Clockwork Theory Strikes Again

                It's about red buses with imaginary gifts to the NHS on the side?

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              and what are we going to sell them?

              Given that this is in a comment line on Galileo - worth pointing out that India has it's own indigenous Sat Nav, IRNSS, so probably sensibly enough when Mr Davis pitches up in the back of a BAE taxi flogging counterfeit Galileos at the bargain price of 3-5 billion India is likely to say ' No Thanks - we already have one - how about we sell a copy to you, cheap at only 300 million'.

              1. Dr_N

                Re: and what are we going to sell them?

                >Mr Davis pitches up in the back of a BAE taxi flogging counterfeit Galileos at the bargain price

                Given the current level of uk.gov's negotiating skills, he'd come back with an expensive 30 year deal (with eye watering cancellation clauses)

                for a rebadged Indian positioning system and visa-free movement of Indian citizens to the UK.

                Just for tariff free trade on some Indian owned products like Jaguar/Land Rover and Tata Steel.

          2. georgezilla Silver badge

            Oh I see now. You mean the UK's version of the E.U..

            The same, only different. Because of course the U.K. is an empire after all.

            Silly Brits, still suffering from delusions of grandeur I see.

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