Schadenfreude for UK mobile networks over the tumult at Carphone UK mobile networks will be eyeing Carphone Warehouse's current woes with some glee. Carphone issued a profits warning last week and warned of a year of difficulty ahead. It will promptly close 92 stores. Why the glee? It's because Charles Dunstone's retail operation is an exception in mobile retail, rather than the norm. …
It took vodafone about three months to unlock my Q10 when my contract ended and they didn't repair the mic properly either when it broke and was still in warrenty. Phones and phone contracts have gotten stupid expensive lately if you want a top end phone or a decent amount of data but car phone warehouse helped to keep the networks on their toes and resonably honest. It would hurt the public if it disappeared completely.
I've been trying to work out what I get paying £500-600 on a top of the range phone, vs spending £100-150 on a mid range phone but I can't work it out.
Sure, all the numbers (cores, core speed, memory, storage etc.) are all bigger for the more expensive phone, but I don't notice any difference in actual day to day usability. Plus, the cheaper end of the market has more competition, so you're more likely to see features you don't get at the high end, such as a ruggidised/waterproof design, or dual SIM slots.
Buy an unlocked phone for £100, and get a sim-only contract for £15/month or pay £50 for the phone and £50/month for the contract? Your choice.
>Someone to sort your phone or your mobile company out when you do not know what to do.
There are a surprising number of people out there who don't know their way around their mobile and will happily go into a shop and get an 'expert' to help them change contracts, move personal information between phones etc.
The trouble is that whilst there is a market for such services, I doubt it can sustain the overheads of the Carphone Warephone/PC World barns...
Now that will be a *really* daft move.
The market benefits from competition as it keeps everybody on their toes and prices will be kept low.
Once that happens (network combining), prices will go up, service levels will drop and the market will go to pot.
The NHS isn't a monopoly (because you don't have to pay at the point of treatment), but it is a monopsony (ie a single buyer with many suppliers), which is not great for the suppliers (because they don't get to set the prices), but great for the NHS, and therefore, us.
"have you seen the ridiculous prices the NHS pays for stuff"
Compared to the cost in the free market of the US?
Plus, they only get a choice of suppliers for some things (eg aspirin), some drugs/equipment will only have a single supplier.
"The market benefits from competition as it keeps everybody on their toes and prices will be kept low."
The market is broken and has been for a long time. The level of competition as it stands doesn't deliver value for money in terms of a decent quality, stable service i.e. far too many 'not spots' given the maturity of the technology and poor quality for both voice and data.
"...prices will go up, service levels will drop and the market will go to pot."
We're already there albeit for some of the better deals offered to the subscriber these days. Yet the fact remains that networks are still guilty of overcharging for what they offer and do in return; plus are largely let-off the hook by the regulator concerning some of their more outrageous behaviour in recent years.
Same could be said for fixed-line but mobile is definitely the worst offender.
The only way we can envisage how things might improve long-term is if a commodity handset brand manages to stay focused in delivering a range of decent quality, fairly priced devices with a stable support regime.
This would perhaps break the cycle both manufacturers and networks find themselves in by enabling punters to feel they have made a wise choice with their cash.
Unfortunately it has been lacking across the board (fancy a Wileyfox anyone?) helping fuel the mess that all now find themselves in: punters are no longer parting with their hard earned lolly because they just don't have it anymore, leaving networks and device mfrs struggling.
So it's a lose-lose all 'round.
Any sensible consumer looking for a replacement phone is likely to consider Amazon, eBay and local supermarkets instead of a "Phone store". For non-gaming customers there are a lot of good phones for well under £200 and reasonable ones for under £100. (Absolute basic non-smartphones can be had for under £15 - eg the Nokia 105.)
Car phone warehouse does have a few websites were they flog phones and contracts and you don't have the annoying people who keep pestering you when you're trying the handset for size and weight. Of course you can't judge the size and weight on the websites. BTW when I bought my S6 sim free and new, car phone warehouse was the cheapest place to do it. Market has changed somewhat since then.
I escaped from the contract grind years ago currently running a moto g4+ and a monthly sim-only contract from smarty.
Call me a tightwad if you will but a begrudge paying a sky-high APR for a lone to buy a phone, which a contract basically is.
For example, the 64gb iPhone 8 with 8gb data on Voda is £79 + (24 * £57) = £1447
or handset direct from Apple and equivalent contract from smarty is £799 + (24 * £15) = £1159
Giving a difference of £288 for the loan.
I can’t speak for the UK any more but contracts in ’Straya are getting stupid. I got an iPhone 4S on contract and the phone cost me a bit over $100. When the time came to get a 6S, the subsidy was practically nonexistent and the data allowance was pitiful at the start of it, let alone 2 years later.
Now I’m on PAYG, which now looks exactly like a contract since all calls and texts are inclusive, except the price is better, the data allowances are better and you can always change if a better deal comes along.
As a person of moderate intelligence, I honestly cannot understand why *anyone* would get a contract.
The next time I need to pay the idiot tax for a phone, I’ll be running straight into the freakish hell that is the Apple store to get it direct.
"The phone cost (AUD)100"
No, the phone cost the usual price for a iPhone 4s (I forget what off the top of my head), but the "call time contract" was WAY over inflated in price to cover the cost.
Now a lot of companies put the phone loan and the call time contract into separate bills. Else they just put about £/$100/200 on the price of the handset in store, and let you pay it off monthly "with no interest".
The interest cost is always hidden in there somewhere. They are a business. What has mainly changed, is most got into trouble for trying to dupe customers and forced to show costs up front, so now their expensive fees are obviously expensive.
"the "call time contract" was WAY over inflated in price to cover the cost"
IIRC, the monthly contract cost excluding the phone repayment was comparable to the PAYG plan I was already on with a different provider.
However, I cop to idiocy for getting such an awful 6S contract.
>>[replacement for Moto G4: Nokia 7+?]
I was looking at the Huey Honour 10 it's a lot of phone for the money.
It's still a lot of money for the phone even if spectacularly greater value than current flagships (I mean the GBP400 rather than the Honor 10 specifically).
I've been thinking about both of those for a similar upgrade scenario, then I look at the Moto G6 and wonder what I am really getting for the extra GBBP100-170. Then I reflect that my 40-month-old phone still works well enough despite the cracks at the top of the screen which will probably kill it eventually.
Of course my opinions are driven by my own bias, prejudice and use-cases
Meh - I'll let a provider charge me £20 over three years for a phone, but not £300...
Many companies are now doing the contract and phone on separate bills even, so you can actually see what you are paying for the device and what for the airtime. At the moment my airtime is more than my device - I'm just upgrading at the moment though, so that will reverse (a combination of getting a reasonably current generation phone, and a cheaper tariff with more data/calls included).
I'm nowhere near paying £60/month though...
For example, the 64gb iPhone 8 with 8gb data on Voda is £79 + (24 * £57) = £1447
or handset direct from Apple and equivalent contract from smarty is £799 + (24 * £15) = £1159
Giving a difference of £288 for the loan.
A shade under 18% APR I think so not ridiculous for unsecured consumer credit. It depends on whether you have the capital, what else you would be doing with it instead and the utility of the handset to you. Whether it is worthy of debate depends on whether the sum are material to you or not
"But as Dunstone told the Financial Times five years ago: "It's over. They* sell things people don't buy any more in stores." Dunstone was talking about CDs and DVDs.
But soon enough, it might be phones."
Soon enough? I don't think I know anyone who has actually bought a phone in a physical store for several years at least. Why would anyone do that when there is far more choice, far more information, and usually better prices online? For some goods, being able to physically try them out in a shop is important, but phones are not one of them. Being able to compare detailed spec sheets, check reviews for known issues, and so on, is far more useful than physically holding a generic rectangle and expecting to get anything useful out of it.
And that really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone given the subject of the article. Carphone Warehouse isn't dying because people might stop shopping there soon, it's dying because they've already stopped.
"For some goods, being able to physically try them out in a shop is important, but phones are not one of them"
I disagree. A phone is something that spends a lot of time in your hands, so personally I want to know about size and weight before I commit. A volume button that's uncomfortably out of reach (for example) would annoy me every day for the few years I own the phone.
I'll go buy it online after checking it out in store though, I'm not daft.
(Mice and keyboards are the other objects I'd put in this category)
Distance Selling Regs are your friend here. Playing with a phone in a store is just for a few minutes and probably tethered to the shelf. You can buy a phone online, unbox it, set it up, use for a day or two and then if you find something annoying do a factory reset and send it back.
"Distance Selling Regs are your friend here ... use for a day or two and then if you find something annoying do a factory reset and send it back."
A "couple of days' use" is probably not what the DSR was intending. Unless there were any physical marks or other signs of use, I doubt the retailer would be able to tell and levy depreciation charges, though...
"Distance Selling Regs are your friend here ... use for a day or two and then if you find something annoying do a factory reset and send it back."
A "couple of days' use" is probably not what the DSR was intending. Unless there were any physical marks or other signs of use, I doubt the retailer would be able to tell and levy depreciation charges, though...
Pretty sure it's exactly what it is designed for.
Maybe a couple of days is a little over the top, but you can certainly find things out in 12 hours that you couldn't know from seeing things online...
Hello:
I don't think I know anyone who has actually bought a phone in a physical store for several years
I think this is something that is not exclusive to the mobile phone market, it is (and will be a greater part of the economy as time goes by) affecting the whole retail industry, from mobile phones to clothes to white box goods, etc.
A couple of years ago I needed to purchase a washing machine and the only way to get a decent price was to purchase it on-line (something that I do not like to do). There was absolutely no way I could get the same store to give me the same deal if I went there in person and paid cash up front. Uncanny ...
Same thing happened the other day when I needed to buy some paint remover: went to the paint store and would cost me over 40% more than buying it on-line, which was actually suggested by the salesman when I complained about what I knew was an expensive price.
I do not think that it's just a costs issue for the retailers, I think that there's also a tax evasion possibility that's probably part of the incentive for this retail system.
In any case, it will eventually all boil down to less jobs and more unemployment.
O.
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