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GoDaddy exiles altright.com after civil rights group complaint

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Ughh I had to do a dubble take...

...Thursday, May 4th

I take it you wrote this on a Thursday, and you still can not get grips with them huh?

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Re: Ughh I had to do a dubble take...

Shittest. Derail. Ever.

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Anonymous Coward

forcible suppression of opposition and control of industry and commerce.

Not sure where I've heard this done before? Could it be fascism?

Another website where people will go underground unchallenged on their very wrong views, it's also advertising of said websites to people that were previously unaware of them. You also remove the ability to track these people when they completely shutter a website. However they can have a nice cup of "Doing Something to make the world a better place" to make them feel better.

Sure I'm going to get down votes from people that don't understand the nature of the internet, shutting one website makes absolutely no difference because another will replace it. The solution is to educate people so they understand that their beliefs serves no purpose other than to create division and that everyone is equal.

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Anonymous Coward

re: The solution is to educate people

And the best way to do that is to publish racist material?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: re: The solution is to educate people

I find generally racists have smaller brains and lower intelligence.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: re: The solution is to educate people

No, you do it through school, you challenge them when they post vile content, for every website they create, create one opposing everything it says with reasons why it's wrong and evidence. Eventually the people that support this will begin to see through it, sure there will be some beyond saving but they are in a minority anyway and you have the next generation through the schools. That's my opinion for what it's worth.

Edit: Here's a question, can anyone give me an example where forced oppression of opinion has resulted in that opinion being removed? In fact it probably gives it support in the minds of simple people, look we're being oppressed so we must be right.

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Re: re: The solution is to educate people

And how does that work in the polarised echo chamber that is the Internet today, are you expecting commentards to go to alt right sites and argue the finer points of Neo-nazism and they'll see the light and become well-adjusted members of society?

It doesn't work, there aren't enough commentards to make a difference and they'll get modded, booted off, or doxxed.

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Re: re: The solution is to educate people

The old adage:

Never argue with a moron, they will bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

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Re: re: The solution is to educate people

I'll turn your question around: can anyone name an instance in which education alone, absent legal support, has resulted in an opinion being abandoned by all?

For 200 years we've been crying "education is the answer!" It doesn't work because we can't agree on what the question was. Education that creates social cohesion and consensus? - that's brainwashing. Education that tries to lead the way to a more advanced, enlightened consensus? That's not only brainwashing, but also divisive and calculated to alienate half the country from the other half.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: re: The solution is to educate people

Good points, maybe someone could come up with an alternative solution, I still don't think banning them is the answer though especially with the way the internet works, it's like the war on drugs or prohibition, sure you may be making a small difference at one end but it does nothing for the start. Maybe the media needs to change its attitude to race/gender/religion etc... It sometimes feels that in the search for popularity they can incite people.

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Re: re: The solution is to educate people

And the best way to do that is to publish racist material?

You have to. Otherwise there is no examples to work with and educate the kids of what is wrong and what is right.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: re: The solution is to educate people

And how does that work in the polarised echo chamber that is the Internet today, are you expecting commentards to go to alt right sites and argue the finer points of Neo-nazism and they'll see the light and become well-adjusted members of society?

Yes! Pretty much. Look at any 'alt right' or 'anything goes' site that isn't a white supremacist site per se. Observe that most users regard the hardcore nazi 1488ers as a bunch of obnoxious cunts with major mental problems.

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Re: re: The solution is to educate people

The website was not banned, and GoDaddy's action was not necessarily intended to make the world a better place.

The idea was to get fascists off their systems, as is entirely their right.

They are entirely free to take their website somewhere else, and GoDaddy is not responsible for educating them otherwise.

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Re: re: The solution is to educate people

"And the best way to do that is to publish racist material?"

You could try debate.

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Re: re: The solution is to educate people

" Here's a question, can anyone give me an example where forced oppression of opinion has resulted in that opinion being removed"

Well, there's Britain's EU Membership Referendum and the 2016 US Elections. Oh, wait.

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Re: re: The solution is to educate people

"Never argue with a moron, they will bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

Except the key is to put on a show for others, who may be wavering. You'll never convince the indoctrinated. But among those watching are some who are open to persuasion. Just look at how much the popularity of Jordan Peterson went up after his debate with Cathy Newman. No way was Cathy convinced, but many watching, who had previously simply accepted the story that the gender pay gap was real, or that capitalism is what causes ones misery. Or that identity politics was harmless. That t-shirts with the face of Che Guevara was no-way not the same as a t-shirt with the face of Hitler. Etc.

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Re: re: The solution is to educate people

It is not the best way, it is the only way. Same applies to Islamosfacist material, Marxist material, Nazi material, Deep Green Human Extinctionist material, etc. etc. etc.

Refute bad ideas rather than try to hide them & pretend they don't exist.

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Angel

Re: re: The solution is to educate people

You have to. Otherwise there is no examples to work with and educate the kids of what is wrong and what is right.

You have to. Otherwise there is no examples to work with and educate the kids of what is altright and what is right.

TFTFY

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Coat

I'll just leave this here :

Free speech...

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Re: I'll just leave this here :

@malle-herbert

That's one of the stupidest things xkcd posted. The holes are glaring and obvious. Does he hold up that standard to bakers and their choice of customers and cake decoration? I very much doubt it.

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Re: The holes are glaring and obvious

So obvious that you didn't even mention them.

Go on, elucidate rather than straw manning.

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Re: I'll just leave this here :

Does he hold up that standard to bakers and their choice of customers and cake decoration?

That one is not free speech, it is anti-discrimination. It is also not a USA law, it is the way ECHR is codified in UK law. If you are providing a service you are not allowed to discriminate on the grounds of race, sex, etc.

As far as free speech it does not exist. At least in the UK. Let's be real the government says not to print something like this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/czech-president-czechs-made-novichok-citing-spy-agency/2018/05/03/034cf488-4f0e-11e8-85c1-9326c4511033_story.html?noredirect=on

It will not be printed. And it is not (at least as off my morning coffee read of the newspapers online at around 8 am).

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Re: The holes are glaring and obvious

"Go on, elucidate rather than straw manning."

I'll bite... "It doesn't mean that anyone has to listen to your bs" - Who decides what is bs? I suspect that they Christian baker thinks that gay weddings are bs (I don't - it's totally fine to me). Who is the final arbitrator of bull and s*?

"If you're yelled at..." etc could include have your "cake order refused". Why doesn't it?

ta - da!

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Re: The holes are glaring and obvious

When you see Randall Munroe post his opinion about the baker case, then you can reasonably try to pick holes in it and, if appropriate, compare with his other stated or implied opinions. Right now all you're doing is arguing against your own imagination of his opinion, which is textbook straw-manning.

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Flame

Re: I'll just leave this here :

If there are consequences for free speech, it isn't free speech.

Laws may protect one against consequences for freely criticizing one's government. However, when the consequences come from employers, coworkers, a large segment of society, or especially SJWs, one cannot exercise free speech without privacy or anonymity. This has always been the case; there's a long tradition of controversial opinions published under pseudonyms.

The war on privacy, anonymity, and 'hate speech' is a war on free speech.

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Meh

Re: I'll just leave this here :

As far as free speech it does not exist. At least in the UK.

Yes it does, subject to restrictions. We are a signatory to the ECHR, So thanks to membership of a European institution we finally got freedom of speech in 1998.

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Headmaster

Re: I'll just leave this here :

As far as free speech it does not exist. At least in the UK.

Yes it does, subject to restrictions. We are a signatory to the ECHR, So thanks to membership of a European institution we finally got freedom of speech in 1998.

You both forget speaker's corner in Hide park, but then again, you only have drunks as audience there...

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Stupid.

If they say or do something illegal then prosecute them. If they don't then leave them alone. The feelings of people should not be the determining factor on who you do business with. This counts for both sides of the argument, left and right. You are free to talk about, discuss and promote communism as much as you are fascism. At the point you resort to violence or break the law you forgo that right.

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Inciting violence is against the law. GoDaddy aren't in a position to prosecute, they're not the state. They are in a position to hold users to their terms of service and are perfectly within their rights to terminate service to users who don't stick to those terms.

Free speech doesn't mean we all have to promote hateful views. Free speech means we have the right to not promote those views.

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@sabroni

"GoDaddy aren't in a position to prosecute, they're not the state."

No - but they can report what they think is a crime to local law enforcement, temporarily take the page down and wait a set period of time, say 30 days for the law enforcement to reply.

Free speech DOES mean we have the ability to offend others. It means we should be allowed to promote views others may find hateful. If this is not true it's not free. I find the views of many people hateful and offensive - some that are lauded by other people. Do I say they should not be able to speak. NO! Let them speak - but as a dialog where I can debate and tear down their views.

That is free speech.

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Free speech DOES mean we have the ability to offend others.

Bingo.

Or as Lazarus Long used to say: "One man's theology is another man's belly laugh."

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Thumb Down

MiniTrue says

Free speech means we have the right to not promote those views.

Degeneracy. Unbelievable degeneracy of the mind.

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But if it is my platform and I don't agree with you, I can tell you to clear off and find somewhere else to espouse your thoughts. I am not infringing your right to free speech, I'm just telling you not to do it on my lawn...

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Re: MiniTrue says

I take it you'll be the first to offer the KKK your back garden so they can hold a meeting.

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Re: MiniTrue says

Are the Demorat created, KKK even still relevant? When was the last time we heard from them? David Duke back in the 90s? Perhaps more recently with his support of President Trump. But, AFAIK he's no longer affiliated with them.

Perhaps you ment to say AntiFa, or BLM? That lot are a nastier blight on society then the morons at the KKK ever were.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: MiniTrue says

So when did the AntiFa or BLM last burn down a Christian church? Or murder someone simply due to their color?

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Re: MiniTrue says

"So when did the AntiFa or BLM last burn down a Christian church? Or murder someone simply due to their color?"

When did Richard Spencer?

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"The feelings of people should not be the determining factor on who you do business with."

What? If, due to the feelings of people, you will lose more business by keeping them than by banning them, then of course they are a determining factor!

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Anonymous Coward

So when did the AntiFa or BLM last burn down a Christian church?

And when did the KKK last do that? As the comment said, they are pretty much nothing now - and have been for quite a while. They'll advertise a rally and generally the only people to show up are the media and protestors against the rally.

At least there are fewer of those particular morons.

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>Free speech means we have the right to not promote those views.

I absolutely agree. We do need to understand that the legal system is downstream of politics, which is downstream of culture, which is downstream from morality.

The question is, does providing DNS mean you support the altright values?

- if you answer "yes" to this question, and you think GoDaddy has the right to not promote the altright based on terms of service, then logical consistency at the morality level says that providing a cake for a gay wedding is also promotion of gay values and the bakers have the right to refuse service.

- if you answer "no", do you still think GoDaddy has the right to determine who provides service to? Should they be forced against their will to provide service to altright organisations which do not align to GoDaddy's beliefs because GoDaddy is offering a commercial service to the public and should not discriminate? Essentially, does the State have the right to take GoDaddy's labour and resources and appropriate it as the State sees fit, to make them serve the altright?

The free speech arguments are not about freedom of expression. The free speech argument controls the outcome of arguments about freedom of thought, conscience and action, which control the outcome of the argument over freedom from State-imposed morality. This is why free speech is such an important issue and why free speech advocates are willing to defend the rights of those expressing the most vile views. If those people are kept safe, then everyone is kept safe. Once you abrogate the principle, no-one is safe (in the long run) and we might see the State and the Church Of The Left combine to force bakers into slavery through State-backed morality laws.

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Godaddy by extension now supports any site on their system.

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FAIL

Re: MiniTrue says

Boy are you ever clueless, which is why you are anonymous:

Let us just start here:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-church-vote-trump_us_585afef4e4b0eb5864851c49

and here

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-black-lives-matter-20170708-story.html

and here

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/st-louis-readies-protests-rallies-injure-10-cops-article-1.3500248

and here

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3321190/F-filthy-white-s-Black-Lives-Matter-protesters-scream-epithets-white-students-studying-Dartmouth-library.html

and I could keep going and going and going and going and going.

How about BLM denying whites access to the "safe space" room even though white people were supporting them? Have to find that link as well. Is this not racism by BLM?

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Anonymous Coward

> But if it is my platform and I don't agree with you, I can tell you to clear off and find somewhere else to espouse your thoughts.

DNS isn't GoDaddy's platform, it's a public utility. And even platforms like Youtube and Facebook are arguably public utilities. Their administrators cannot be allowed to discriminate.

Regardless of where you stand politically, they'll come for you sooner or later. Alt-righters are making the biggest stink about it, but in aggregate, it looks like alt-left/progressives are bearing the brunt of censorship.

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" but in aggregate, it looks like alt-left/progressives are bearing the brunt of censorship."

How so, troland?

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Human rights

It's all about a trade-off between the rights of non-white people to go about their lives, the rights of white-supremacists to air their views and the rights of go-daddy to choose who they want as a customer. All of these are enshrined in law.

Just as white-supremacists can't be forced to shut up unless they break the law by violating the rights of non-whites, go-daddy can't be forced to give white-supremacists a voice unless that breaks the law by violating their free-speech rights (which it clearly doesn't).

In the same way, Wal-Mart refuses to sell CDs with the "explicit lyrics" sticker on - that's their choice

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Re: Human rights

@Tim 11

"go-daddy can't be forced to give white-supremacists a voice unless that breaks the law by violating their free-speech rights"

Should Christian bakers be forced to make cakes for those they don't agree with?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Human rights

@Timmy, do you have some sort of Christian Cake Fetish?

Lets alter that very slightly

Hello I'd like a cake for my friends wedding saying "Congratulations to Mr Muhammad and Miss Mohammed on their upcoming wedding"

Sorry Islam is wrong. I won't make it.

Now tell me the difference?

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Coat

Re: Human rights

@Lost all faith... but those Christian cakes are so wholesome.

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Re: Human rights

It's just a handy corresponding example. One commercial enterprise refuses service for reasons and so does another. It's just fairly well known. I think all people should be able to refuse to service anyone for any reason even including "I just didn't fell like it"

There is no difference in your Islamic example. People should either be forced to service all people without exception or be allowed to refuse for any reason.

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Re: Human rights

Ultimately, there is a point to what Timmy is saying. If you're a baker, you're not allowed to refuse baking a cake for a gay wedding, but you're allowed to refuse baking a cake which says "Hang all the N***"

And Timmy doesn't get why those cases are treated differently by the law.

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