back to article Take-off crash 'n' burn didn't kill the Concorde, it was just too bloody expensive to maintain

For a generation that never heard the sonic boom as Concorde broke the sound barrier overhead, the iconic white arrow-shaped aircraft dubbed "The Rocket" by British Airways is just a story our parents told. Before we travel to the museum in Filton, Gloucestershire, that houses it, let's take a trip back in time. Aérospatiale/ …

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  2. Tim 49

    The most amazing engineering

    When the project was cancelled, the very next airframe would have been the 'B' model, with wings that were more optimised for low-speed operation, & more powerful engines that no longer required reheat, which even though it was only used for takeoff & for about 13 minutes from M0.95 to M1.7 was very thirsty. This would have enhanced efficiency, but none were built.

    The engineering, particularly for the engine intakes, ramps & spill doors & their control was staggering for the 1960s. at M2.0, more than 60% of the thrust was generated from the intake, from energy recovered from the pressure changes, with vary rapid adaptations for temperature, air pressure, demanded power etc. Concorde could lose two engines at M2.0 on the same side with no fuss, other than very rapid deceleration.

    Even things like the tyres were radical, since the delta produces no lift until rotation, unlike conventional wings that start to reduce the tyre loads as speed increases. So you have an aircraft with a much higher take-off speed (1/2mv^^2 & all that), with all its weight on the wheels, requiring new tyre technology. And the main gear legs are too long to fit in the bays, so they have to shorten as they retract. Amazing, wonderful white bird, the like of which we'll never see again.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The most amazing engineering

      Amazing engineering from one point of view, until you look at its fuel consumption and the levels of pollutants it puts out. Ok in the 1970s, not so much today. Even if BA and AF hadn't canned it it would by now probably be in breach of half a dozen noise and pollution regulations. And as someone who lived 15 miles from heathrow and still had to put his hands over his ears when concorde flew over just so some businessmen could save 3 hours flying time to one city, I'm not particularly sad to see it gone.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The most amazing engineering

        I used to work not far from Heathrow, we used to avoid phone calls and go make a cup of tea when the 11am flight to NY was due.

        It wasn't a terrible hardship, and she was a wonderful sight to see.

        1. mantavani

          Re: The most amazing engineering

          I used to time my walk home across Albert Bridge and through Battersea Park for the same flight, so we were both gazing at her at the same time!

          1. elbisivni

            Re: The most amazing engineering

            Mantevani - that brings back memories. I used to live in one of the mansion blocks on Prince of Wales Drive on the edge of the park and would regularly annoy my flatmate by opening the balcony door to watch and hear Concorde follow the river.

            it was also one of the things I missed after I moved to the correct side of the river a few years later.

        2. jeffdyer

          Re: The most amazing engineering

          About 7 minutes later she was over Cardiff. I still remember looking up, and sometimes setting my watch.

        3. Mike Pellatt

          Re: The most amazing engineering

          Indeed. I used to be a Surrey County Councillor.

          We had to pause at every full council meeting as the 11am flight went over County Hall in Kingston.

          No-one ever complained

          1. J.G.Harston Silver badge

            Re: The most amazing engineering

            Kudos to another engineer who put the time into local government. We need more there to counterbalance the muesli-eating arts and politics graduates who think that science is a matter of opinion.

      2. myhandler

        Re: The most amazing engineering

        I live about 5 miles from Heathrow though not on the normal flight path. Concorde used to take off, do a sharp right and fly directly down our street seemingly very low - the house used to shake and I'd run out to try and catch a glimpse. My baby son called it Councoun.

        And as a kid I used to see it doing the test fights high in the sky over Wiltshire. Amazing machine.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The most amazing engineering

          "And as a kid I used to see it doing the test fights high in the sky over Wiltshire. Amazing machine."

          The Saturn V was an amazing machine, but you wouldn't want one taking off a few miles away from you every damn day. Concorde might have been an engineering tour de force, however it was also bloody obnoxious to anyone who had to endure it regularly. Its all very easy to get misty eyed about it if you didn't have to suffer the consequences.

          FWIW I used to work in an office right next to the heathrow runway and the novelty of planes taking off and landing gets old REALLY fast. After a few days all you notice is the noise and the disgusting smell of jet fuel if the wind is blowing in your direction.

          1. mantavani

            Re: The most amazing engineering

            I bet the runway was there before your old office. Always amuses me when people complain about what they moved next door to.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: The most amazing engineering

              If you move next to an quiet little office and then it changes to an all night kebab shop, you may complain.

              You move to a 9-5 warehouse and 2 years later it becomes a 24/7 steel mill (like that will happen in the UK), do you just put up with it?

              If you move next to a smallish airfield with flight paths that don't go your direction, then a few years later you have one of the loudest ever planes flying directly over your house, you may complain.

              You make a choice on what is known at that point or the near future, not what may happen 20 years down the line.

              And no, I don't live near an airport.

              1. Stevie

                Re: The most amazing engineering

                Sorry, Lost all faith ... but those situations do not pertain. Every last one is a straw man you constructed to make some point lost in the blither.

                Smallish airfields were not host to Concorde. It flew internationally, so it required an "international" airport at which to drop anchor. Pesky thing, national immigration requirements. And if you think Concorde was loud, you should have heard that Phantom - standard issue at the US airbases in Norfolk when I were a lad. Or a Shackleton taking off for coast watch duties.

                Your point about choices being made in the "now" conveniently ignores the facts that 20 years down the road you are living in it and it is "now", and that the Steel Mill requires a re-zoning that will take over a year to complete and in this time of instant communication would never be able to be done quietly.

                And if you can't figure out the issues with living in an area re-zoned from commercial to industrial use, you have to take what's coming. usually a whacking great property tax break for having a steel mill next door, though the mill would probably want to buy you out so your hovel could be turned into a storage shed for coil steel.

                1. Mooseman Silver badge

                  Re: The most amazing engineering

                  To be fair, almost every 1970s commercial jet was hellishly noisy. Concorde was just a little more so. Where I grew up there was a Vulcan squadron based 4 miles up the road, every now and then there was a point where you stopped talking if you were outside, and if you were inside you hoped your windows wouldn't break.

                  I have fond memories of Filton though - in my school days we used to fly Chipmunks from there, and a few years earlier we would watch Concorde on test flights.

              2. Steve Crook

                Re: The most amazing engineering

                Yes, exactly. To have 20 or 30 concorde flights taking off and landing every day must have been hell. Oh, wait, it was what? 2 or 3?

                As a kid I lived under an occasional Heathrow flight path. We got a diet of low level VC10 and Boeing 707 they weren't quiet either. But somehow, we struggled on.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: The most amazing engineering

                  "Yes, exactly. To have 20 or 30 concorde flights taking off and landing every day must have been hell. Oh, wait, it was what? 2 or 3?"

                  And add in all the other aircraft and it becomes a nightmare.

                  "But somehow, we struggled on."

                  So because you didn't have a problem with it - kids generally don't FWIW - then others should just stop whinging and carry on? You smug self righteous pillock. Not everyone is an aircraft fan who goes week at the knees at seeing concorde, some of us just see a machine, not a "bird" nor do we engage in some lame pseudo romantic anthropomorphic nonsense and call it "her" or "she" while going all misty eyed. It was a plane to get businessmen to new york a few hours faster, BFD, a PITA for anyone nearby the airport on the ground and an enviromental disaster. I'm glad its gone. Mod me down planespotters, I couldn't care less. When you're done zip up your anoraks, fill up your thermoses and go stand in some mud next to a fence waiting for more "birds" to fly over you you sad bastards.

                  1. GodBlessIBM

                    Re: The most amazing engineering

                    It's "Thermoses". Capital T for a brand name. You grumpy bugger.

              3. jeff77

                Re: The most amazing engineering

                I moved to Maidenhead 15 years ago. As pledges go, David Cameron's in 2009 was unequivocal: he said that a Conservative government would not build a third runway at Heathrow. For the avoidance of any doubt, he added: 'No ifs, no buts'.

                Heathrow flights are capped at 480K per year – which was set as a condition of the Terminal 5 planning consent in 2001. Once runway 3 is in operation the number of flights (air transport movements or ATMs) will be 702K in mixed mode, which is an increase of 46% and means that alternating mode, (the current system where residents under the flight paths get a break for half the day) will be binned.

                It is reasonable to think that a restriction on flight numbers critical to the granting of planning consent for a new very large terminal at Heathrow would be meaningful for at least two decades. And one would expect that an unequivocal statement by a PM would bind future governments, particularly those of the same party, for at least several decades. Clearly neither is accurate. And one cannot escape the conclusions that BA always intended to get runway 3 built once consent for T5 was given and that Theresa May's government considers David Cameron's commitment given 9 years ago not to allow runway 3 counts for nought.

                To the person who wrote that 'it amuses him / her when people move next to an airport then complain about the noise': nice. You keep smiling, amused person.

                1. anothercynic Silver badge

                  Re: The most amazing engineering

                  BA are not the ones asking for the third runway to be built. Heathrow Airport do. And quite frankly, Heathrow *does* need a third runway. However, I *do* believe that the number of flights should roughly remain the same for the airport (perhaps increase by 10% but with strict no-night-flights limits except in limited circumstances) even if the third runway were to be built, primarily because the third runway would allow the flexibility for existing flights to continue even in inclement conditions (like heavy fog, heavy winds, snow, etc), whereas right now, countless flights are cancelled and cause endless misery to those who have no option but to travel when they're scheduled to travel.

                  While I commiserate with the burghers of Eton, Windsor and Maidenhead, be aware that most modern airliners are a damn sight quieter on takeoff and landing than the oldies (like BA's venerable 747s and 767s with the old RB211s or some of the US/ME 777s with their GE90s!), and that what you have experienced is LHR trying to find a way to be less intrusive where jet noise is concerned by spreading the intensity across different paths. That it's catching you out now is... well... unfortunate.

                  I certainly would *never* believe a politician who tells me that "we will *never* allow this to happen" if it affects my future home.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: The most amazing engineering

              "I bet the runway was there before your old office. Always amuses me when people complain about what they moved next door to."

              I was talking about aircraft in general. By the time I worked there concorde was thankfully long gone. And FWIW I terminated that contract early, I couldn't stand working there any longer as my health had begun to suffer. Even now when I smell jet fuel I start to feel nauseous.

              I like cars, but I wouldn't want to live or work on the hard shoulder of the M25 either.

              1. asdf

                Re: The most amazing engineering

                >"I bet the runway was there before your old office. Always amuses me when people complain about what they moved next door to."

                Not saying OP did but seems to me also you get some people who get a huge bargain on a place due to proximity and then look for sympathy and fight the airport every chance they get.

          2. Stevie

            Re: the disgusting smell of jet fuel

            None of which is unique to Concorde, as a trip to JFK or La Guardia will quickly prove. Airports stink of Jet-A. Live and work elsewhere.

            Take-off noise from Concorde was earsplitting though, I'll grant.

            No louder than the Phantom flyby I was "privileged" to experience in Grande Prairie one year at an airshow. Ears rang for hours afterward.

            1. Bob Wheeler
              Thumb Up

              Re: the disgusting smell of jet fuel

              During the 70' going to an Air show and watching a Vulcan fly over the runway at about 500ft and then the pilot pull back on the stick so it's standing on it's tail while applying full power.

              The earth shaked!!!

              1. Kevin Johnston

                Re: the disgusting smell of jet fuel

                Used to go to Bembridge Airshow on the Isle of Wight (the airfield is the home of the Pilatus Britten-Norman Islander) and we had a Vulcan a few times...

                Gear down, flaps down, full chat at what appeared to be 100 feet up....FEEL the sound. Sadly after shattering windows in nearby towns the display got sanitised.

              2. Toni the terrible Bronze badge
                Headmaster

                Re: the disgusting smell of jet fuel

                The Earth Shook! FTFY

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: The most amazing engineering

            I'd be fine with a Saturn V taking off a few miles away (assuming 'a few' is 'enough not to be physically damaging) once a day, or a supersonic plane flying overhead once a day (same constraints about damage). In fact I'd positively enjoy both I think (I've lived places where fast jets fairly regularly did training, so I have some experience of things like this). What I would not be OK with is something flying overhead every five minutes, even something much quieter than Concorde. (Yes, I don't live near a large airport!)

            1. jeff77

              Re: The most amazing engineering

              Try living under the Heathrow flight path now: something flies overhead every 90 seconds.

            2. Greencat

              Re: The most amazing engineering

              Agreed. I live on the flight path of the local RAF base and we get all manner of exotic aircraft flying overhead - sometimes extremely low. They are infrequent enough - say once or twice a week - that they are something to be marvelled at rather than annoyed by.

              I'd feel very differently if it was hourly.

          4. swampdog

            Re: The most amazing engineering

            I guess you wouldn't have wanted to live near Vulcan bombers then? A chap wouldn't want to break the red traffic lights at the end of their runway. Sometimes they'd go vertical asap which put them on their tail over the road.

            Chinooks have got quieter or I'm going deaf (probably both). A modern Concorde would be quieter too. All hail the Stealth Concorde!

            1. Intractable Potsherd

              Re: The most amazing engineering

              @swampdog - "I guess you wouldn't have wanted to live near Vulcan bombers then?"

              I think I've said here before that I grew up near Finningley, and the sound of Vulcans taking off and landing is part of the soundtrack of my childhood. A couple of jobs ago I lived on the flight-path for Coventry Airport - I was disappointed that the aircraft didn't make "proper" amounts of noise.

              1. DominicA

                Re: The most amazing engineering

                I went to junior school at RAF Scampton (Dad was a Vulcan pilot on 35 Sqn) and grew so accustomed to the Vulcan noise that when we moved I missed it.

                I can't deny having a bit of dust in my eye when I saw 558 fly for the last time on her farewell tour. The Vulcan was only beaten for beauty (in my eyes) by Concord. A shame that there isn't still one flying example of either for younger generations to marvel at.

                1. rcw88

                  Re: The most amazing engineering

                  Me too, I saw her overflying Gaydon, and Scarborough on a previous tour. There's a Concorde at East Fortune, tucked away in a hanger, saw XH558 there as well.

                  There's a Concorde prototype at Yeovilton, I can nearly touch both sides from the centre of the aisle its that small.

                  But a thing of beauty - ABSOLUTELY, I use a picture of one taking off in a STEM presentation to show STEM isn't about creating 'things' - its about creating things with great design and solving problems.

            2. Scorchio!!

              Re: The most amazing engineering

              "I guess you wouldn't have wanted to live near Vulcan bombers then? A chap wouldn't want to break the red traffic lights at the end of their runway. Sometimes they'd go vertical asap which put them on their tail over the road."

              I'm glad you mentioned the Vulcan. When I was a child we lived somewhere on one of their flight paths either going out or returning, and I can remember looking up on hearing a moaning sound like all of the hounds of hell, and seeing the shape of what I still consider to be the most beautiful aircraft ever made. I can remember the sound even now. They can be heard by searching "vulcan bomber howl" on Youtube. The best one I've heard is titled "This must be the longest Vulcan XH558 Howl". My mother used to tell me this was the sound of freedom, our freedom.

              1. MJI Silver badge

                Re: The most amazing engineering

                Delta Winged British Aircraft

                I just remember in the 60s somewhere near Bristol, lots of traffic jams, to see a Concordet.

                Sitting on the slip way of Lizard life boat seeing a small shape in the sky.

                A Vulcan air displaying over Holyhead Island (and one year a double Hunter crash).

                Most recently XH558 climbing over Pershore.

              2. rcw88

                Re: The most amazing engineering

                Vulcans used to fly quite often over our house when we lived just east of Leeds, at about 300 feet. Part of their training routines of low level flying. An awesome machine, XH558 carries my mums name in perpetuity [hopefully], she loved that plane and helped pay to get it back in the air.

                The Vulcan howl, the best thing. Ever.

            3. Mooseman Silver badge

              Re: The most amazing engineering

              "Chinooks have got quieter or I'm going deaf (probably both)"

              I suspect you're going deaf :) We have Chinooks flying VERY low here, and I can vouch for the level of racket.

          5. Gene Cash Silver badge

            Re: The most amazing engineering

            > The Saturn V was an amazing machine, but you wouldn't want one taking off a few miles away from you every damn day

            I live not far from KSC, and remember all the double-sonic booms from landing Shuttles. It was something I looked forward to, and something I miss. I'd give a kneecap to see a Saturn V fly even monthly, much less daily.

            Top article by Mr. Ambasna-Jones! Hats off to him.

        2. Outski

          Re: The most amazing engineering

          @myhandler I lived, variously, in Hounslow, Teddington and Putney, all under the flight path, to the point that when I was Putney, it seemed to be "fly round London a bit, turn west at Outski's and you're on final approach".

          And all three places, I still always looked out in awe when Concorde went over, just stunningly graceful.

          1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
            Thumb Up

            Re: The most amazing engineering

            Caught her coming into Heathrow one sunday evening, when the flights resumed while on the train to Paddington.

            I think most of the coach stopped what they were doing to watch her.

            Also once while walking in Sidcup.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The most amazing engineering

        I lived on the flight path too. Ignore the downvotes, it was unbearably noisy

        1. Rich 11

          Re: The most amazing engineering

          I spent a week on a training course at the University of Exeter in the mid-90s. One evening I was drinking in one of the smaller, quieter bars and got chatting to a campus security guard who had dropped in for a little light refreshment. Just before 9pm he said to me, "Come and listen to this," and unlocked the patio doors. We stepped outside, facing south, and he stood there looking at his watch. "Any minute now... just a few more seconds..."

          *whump*

          Concorde had just gone supersonic, about 15 miles out over the sea.

          .

          1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
            Thumb Up

            Re: The most amazing engineering

            Elsewhere in that fine city I was usually out walking the dog waiting for the self same boom.

      4. GrumpyKiwi

        Re: The most amazing engineering

        I worked for several years just outside Heathrow during the 1990's (on the Bath Road to be precise). So I got to experience Concorde taking off once or twice per day. It wasn't that loud. Stop being a sooky.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The most amazing engineering

          "Stop being a sooky."

          English translation anyone?

          1. GrumpyKiwi

            Re: The most amazing engineering - translation

            'Stop being a sooky' = 'stop being a crying baby.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: The most amazing engineering - translation

              "'Stop being a sooky' = 'stop being a crying baby."

              So why not just say that instead of using some kiwi slang no one within 12000 miles of london understands apart from your compatriots.

              As for being a cry baby - its easy to criticise others who don't like stuff that doesn't personally bother you. But then looking back through your posts you're not exactly Mr Perfect. No wonder your wife fucked off.

              1. GodBlessIBM

                Re: The most amazing engineering - translation

                Jesus, Boltar. Bad day at the office? Get a fucking grip, old chap.

      5. charlieboywoof

        Re: The most amazing engineering

        Sorry, you lived near an airport, your choice.

    2. anothercynic Silver badge

      Re: The most amazing engineering

      The ramps and spillways concept for the intake was brilliant. It did cause some violent unstarts and surges though when the shockwave collapsed and 'blew out the candle' but for the time, this and many other innovations from the design and engine teams were absolutely bleeding edge for their time.

      Brian Trubshaw, one of the test pilots, wrote a great book about the design of Concorde, and it's a joy to read. For engineers and engineering/aviation buffs, this book and The Empire of the Clouds by James Hamilton-Paterson are must-reads.

      I have yet to pop down to Filton to see the great white bird again in person, and I always feel a stab in my heart when we line up before getting onto LHR RWY 27L and see the lone BA Concorde moulding away in the corner just off the runway (at least there is *someone* at LHR, possibly someone from BA Engineering, who gives her an occasional wash). That plane would be *so* much better on the big BA roundabout off the M25 Spur similar to Air France's F-BVFF at Charles de Gaulle.

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