The BBC
... continues to be very, very quiet on this.
It's a can of worms waited to be inspected - Cambridge Analytica throws into doubt the whole validity of the Brexit vote, not to mention other ballots outside of the UK.
Working for Cambridge Analytica "felt very much like a privatised colonising operation," the former staffer at the centre of the scandal around Facebook data slurps and Vote Leave's alleged overspend has said. Speaking to MPs today, Chris Wylie, the pink-haired whistleblower with a knack for flamboyant and quotable phrases, …
Are referenda covered by the same laws as elections?
As far as election fraud - yes. AFAIK so far campaign fraud has been used to invalidate elections up to mayor and councillor level. There was a London borough which had its mayor removed a couple of years back for that (forgot which one).
I am not aware of a single instance of parliamentary election (as the closest equivalent to a referendum) to be invalidated as a result of campaign fraud.
Are referenda covered by the same laws as elections?
That's beside the point; the referendum was explicitly advisory, so May was not bound in any way to act on the results. Basically, the decision to leave the EU was hers, and not the British people's. Her decision was based on an understanding that the British people did want to leave, but not contingent upon it, so even if the referendum was shown to be completely rigged, she'd still be head-down charging forward at the brick wall.
>Her decision was based on an understanding that the British people did want to leave,
No, it was based on the understanding that her party would fracture and her majority would migrate to UKIP.
The UK is leaving the EU because of the Conservative Party's internal problems and has nothing to do with "the will of the people". Twenty-odd arseholes in gray suits threatened to throw their toys out of their collective pram and shafted an entire country. Surely that had to be the opposite of democracy regardless of your desired result.
>The UK is leaving the EU because of the Conservative Party's internal problems and has nothing to do with "the will of the people".
What nonsense. The UK is leaving the EU to ensure that Paul Dacre's non-dom status and wealth are preserved and the plebs do what they're told.
"Be brave and come out of the closet. I think the average listener age can be lowered if more of us admitted our vice."
From a presumably very elderly anonymous coward.
I'm pretty sure I'm not the youngest person on here, I'm old enough to remember when MS DOS was first released; and I don't even own a radio set.
@K
"I often think this.. but afraid to admit I'm a closet Radio 4 listener.. as my wife says, "Isn't that a station for old people?".. Unfortunately I leave evidence (forgetting to switch stations before getting out of the car!)."
Sorry had to downvote, just for your wife's comment, please pass it on.
Please also let her know that no, it's not for "old" people, it's for intelligent, articulate people of any age who are interested in a wide variety of interesting topics, who wish to expand their knowledge and experience. it is the last bastion of truly balanced and challenging debate you are likely to find on any broadcast medium anywhere in the world.
I would happily continue to pay my TV licence fee purely to keep Radio 4 going in its current state.
It is not for vapid, boring, people interested only in fashion and celebrity who just want to absorb and consume. (Not casting aspersions on your wife by the way, get her try it, she might like it. Tell her not to worry what other people think.)
"The BBC... continues to be very, very quiet on this.
Yes, to the extent of making it the lead story on the BBC News site through most of Tuesday, and one of the lead stories on their TV and radio news programmes. Talk about a cover-up..."
For balance, here is today's Most Read on the BBC News website, as of 8:55am 28th March 2018.
1. Shoppers to pay plastic bottle deposit
2. 'Enormous' wildcat found in Aberdeenshire
3. Megabus ads promising £1 seats are banned
4. 5 songs you didn't know were about God
5. Teen hits lottery jackpot on 18th birthday
6. Walmart shelves 'hyper-sexualised' Cosmo
7. Kim was in Bejing, China and NK confirm
8. Plastics purge and firefighters 'sorry'
9. In pictures: Brief encounters through the lens
10. Fans to say farewell at Ken Dodd funeral
A quick browse on the BBC News home page also reveals that there are a number articles stretching back 17+ hours, but none are to do with Cambridge Analytica, Facebook, or the investigation. Reporting a story that Zuckerborg has refused to meet MPs isn't the same as comenting on the story and CA's role in the EU referendum.
The only news organisation covering it in depth, aside from El Reg, is The Guardian. It's been on the top of their website for a fortnight practically.
So yes. The BBC are deathly quiet about this scandal - which is what it is - and haven't given it enough exposure or comment. I'm not saying why or why not, but it's as plain as the nose on your face that it's been given little to no coverage in the truest sense by the BBC.
They haven't even commented on how the Tory government outed Mr.Wiley as gay, completely against his will. But they'll report on an owner going to prison for teaching a dog to raise a paw?
**EDITED at 9:14am, 28th March 2018**
Just decided to go on to the UK News section of the BBC website. Not a single mention of CA or the inquiry. Plenty about the Queen going to see a boat and an owl attacking a groom.
The first mention of Brexit being swayed only comes when you visit the Politics section of the BBC News website, half way down (on the mobile version): Claims 'cheating' may have swayed Brexit poll. Published 7 hours ago.
And that's it. That is your only mention, vauge as it is, about CA, Facebook, Brexit, and the referendum.
Check it for yourself.
Most Read TODAY! Not this week, month.
Try this search to see how much they are "not" covering it.
cambridge analytica site:bbc.co.uk
5hrs ago
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43558876
7hrs ago
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-43562388
11 hours ago
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43554135
or how about it on BBC Worldwide?
http://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias-internacional-43486272
@Lost all faith...
"cambridge analytica site:bbc.co.uk"
This is of course exactly how the majority of internet users go about navigating the BBC news site.
The fact is that if you go to bbc.co.uk/news right now there is not a single mention of 'Cambridge' 'Analytica' 'Referendum' or 'Wylie' and a single entry for 'Brexit' that has nothing to do with this story. A casual reader wouldn't know a single thing about this story, if they weren't looking for it, after reading the BBC news homepage in it's entirety.
It was featured fairly prominently yesterday though.
The fact is that if you go to bbc.co.uk/news right now there is not a single mention of 'Cambridge' 'Analytica' 'Referendum' or 'Wylie' and a single entry for 'Brexit' that has nothing to do with this story.
It's a rolling news feed. There's nothing on the landing page of the gruaniad, or even google news about it at the moment either. It's a conspiracy I tells ya!
>Claims 'cheating' may have swayed Brexit poll.
Persuading people of a political view is not "cheating" its "winning."
Persuading people of a political view does not invalidate an election.
If attempted political persuasion is illegal, the BBC should be fined into oblivion. They have certainly made it their business.
The BBC have worked hard to lose my interest. I used to be a staunch advocate for them - I thought it useful to have a well-funded, reasonably-independent-of-government, non-commercial news organisation. Now their LGBT/race/feminist/pro-anything-foreign/anti-everything-traditionally-English activism coverage is just plain tedious and I no longer visit them. Too many times I thought there was a news story, but no, it was just propaganda. I don't even listen to the Friday Night Funnies any more. Yes Trump is an obnoxious idiot, but virtue-signalling isn't the essence of comedy. Half an hour of that is just boringly self-righteous. Why can't they just replay "Hancock's Half Hour"? I'd love them to dig up the show they did (in the 80's?) where they translated Macbeth into "Beano" style audio. "Cabin Pressure" was fantastic. Where are the people like Adam Curtis? I don't need to agree with everything said, but I'd like to perceive that some analytical thought has been applied.
>>Claims 'cheating' may have swayed Brexit poll.
>Persuading people of a political view is not "cheating" its "winning."
Persuading people using carefully constructed and focused lies that opponents have no opportunity to counter might be considered cheating, I suppose.
Regardless, the 'cheating' in this case would be the breaking of the spending limits if that's what has happened.
>Regardless, the 'cheating' in this case would be the breaking of the spending limits if that's what has happened.
I totally agree. But that isn't the focus or tone of all these articles. The narrative is all about an evil organisation which used some mind-control magic to change people's votes. There is obviously no way that people not under an evil magical influence would have voted "leave".
I'm not sure if those behind these stories think they are being subtle in arguing that the election is invalid and the result ignored.
The tone of the articles are so obviously partisan framing all this as both bad and exceptional. This kind of targetting goes on every day. Buy a flight to Italy, you'll get offers for Italian car-rentals. This is not an aberration, this is what facebook and google do for a living. This is exactly what Obama did and was praised for when he won his elections by the same newspapers who denounced both Brexit and Trump's election when they did exactly the same thing.
Don't get me wrong, I find it all abhorrent, but I take personal responsibility for it by not blabbing about my life on facebook. Even if they get a profile on me from those around me, I'm not seeing their adverts. If you don't like the power these organisations have, stop giving them free content and consuming their advertising. I'm not going to cry if facebook and Tumblr go under. Do you think Facebook or its clients (the ones who actually pay them for stuff) or the government want it to go away, or is it just too useful? Building profiles and micro-targeting is what the Cloud does. Don't come crying because you think it was used for evil. If you want it to go away, you have to kill the capability.
This level of creepiness is not just for social media any more. I see MS are banning profanity in O365 documents. Think about what that means. Are your documents "safe" in the cloud? Encrypted?
Nuke it from orbit, its the only way to be sure. We need new protocols to provide distributed authentication, presence indicators and RSS feeds so that we can share information with our friends and friends alone, without giving data to large organisations. Large organisations tend to evil. This is because as they grow, individuals (customers, voters, providers) become relatively less important. Larger organisations trample on those they disagree with. That may not matter to you while you are in power or in the majority. Welcome to the Minority.
Notice how Scottish independence went back on the agenda after the Brexit vote? That would be devolution of power to provide self-determination. Scotland splitting from the UK, just as the UK split from Europe. It is interesting how people suddenly want that ability despite being pro-EU. It is pretty similar, except of course the EU is not supposed to be a nation.
>Why can't they just replay "Hancock's Half Hour"?
They do, on [url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b009t2ld/episodes/player]Radio 4 Extra[/url].
And he's still a man, and none of the rest of the cast is non-white or gay for any reason other than comic effect.
Same station for 'Hello Cheeky', 'Round the Horn', 'The Navy Lark', 'I'm Sorry, I'll read That Again', 'The Men From The Ministry', and many other comedies untainted by the passage of time.
If you hanker for a world where politeness was strictly observed but went no further than tipping your hat to the secretary before you pinched her bum then the BBC still caters for you.
> Persuading people of a political view is not "cheating" its "winning."
> Persuading people of a political view does not invalidate an election.
There are ways of persuading that are not cheating under our rules, and there are ways of persuading that are. If it turns out that the different Leave campaigns were co-ordinating their activity, and had a joint spend over the limits set by the electoral commission, that is not only cheating, it is also against the law. If this turns out to be the case, there is a very strong argument that the referendum result is not valid and should be set aside. Then whatever the illiberal elite of the Daily Mail, Express and Telegraph claim, the result cannot be said to be the "will of the people", because the people were not involved in a fair contest.
What a firkin palaver.
"Cheating."
Just as Tony Blair did when he blatantly lied to the whole country about Iraq's (non-existent) weapons of mass destruction. And started what many, including experts, deem to be an illegal war.
Just as Nick Clegg, the Liberal Democrat leader did when he and his party stood on a principle of no higher education fees, then as soon as his chance of personal glory appeared, he sold his party and principles down the river for a share of power. With subsequent election results through the floor.
Just as the whole load of bollocks sprouted by the London 2012 Olympics, a world class legacy left in London, to benefit the whole of the UK ( ha ha fucking ha) including a world class athletics facility barely used once a year, costing as near as dammit a £bn, now sublet to a greedy grasping football club at a loss of some £20m a year.
Just as a VP of the International Athletics body lied to a parliamentary body about his (alleged) lack of knowledge about corruption of that body of which he had been a VP for several years. Not to mention Eugene Oregon simply being GIVEN future games despite other potential candidates.
So what, someone tried to influence voters to leave the EU?
I doubt many actually know who voted Leave and why. From a close group of people i know, 20 or so, family, friends and colleagues who openly state they voted Leave, mostly educated to degree level and beyond, many of them have waited a long time, 20 years or more for that vote.
And in brutal reality, it is not the Leave voters who are responsible for having sold out any younger generations futures. That die was cast some while ago.
YMMV.
On the News page on the Beeb's website, at the top is a story about Facebook changing their privacy policy. Which references the whole Cambridge Analytica brouhaha. And has further links. So it is mentioned. I also saw the pink haired chap on Newsnight last night, so again they do cover it. Haven't heard seen any radio or telly bulletins in the last couple of days though, so can't speak for that.
I suspect that most people won't have picked up on it yet, other than maybe the implications for Facebook privacy. Because so far it's untested allegations. And most people tend to ignore most political stories, as a general rule. Whereas the Facebook data-leakage story is real and admitted, and affects their data.
This is the kind of story that rumbles on for months before it becomes big news. The leave press may well mostly ignore it and the Guardian run two stories a day on why Brexit is bad / wrong / evil and the referendum should be ignored, overturned or re-run. So this will probably just look like more of that for a bit to the non-engaged voter. It's amazing how litttle single news stories move the polls, and even when one does, they tend to return to where they were before after a week or two.
"... continues to be very, very quiet on this."
Far worse, in my opinion, is the number of our representatives who were present in the House yesterday to participate in a debate on the matter.
A testimony before a Parliamentary committee is not the same as an appearance in court - there could be legal ramifications for a broadcaster covering it if the details later turn out to not be true.
This is the same reason why the BBC and other broadcasters never cover major allegations made on the front page of national newspapers before the accused has had a chance to reply.
My mum always told me never trust someone with pink hair. This bribing of the police has me intrigued and leaves too many obvious questions that I'm surprised weren't asked, how did the police know? When did it happen? Where did it happen? Why did they waste money bribing the police rather than putting the do not disturb sign on the door?
If all of this is true then expect a strange accident in the news in the coming weeks.
If all of this is true then expect a strange accident in the news in the coming weeks.
Yes, with a "100% RARE nerve agent that may not even exist but is OBVIOUSLY from a soviet operation shut down in the 90s".
This whole thing sounds too gross. Like another reality-TV show made by well-remunerated "event managers".
At least the nose ring and hipster T-Shirt are gone.
If all of this is true then expect a strange accident in the news in the coming weeks.
You mean like the one that happened to his predecessor?
You touch something like your phone and they find you dead in your hotel room a few hours later. With no traces and nobody being able to explain the cause of death (at least in a 3rd world country like Nigeria).
That does remind me of something... Wonder what it is...
I mean I don’t support Brexit or Trump, but this is starting to sound like Flat Earth literature.
There is no way an advertising agency can have that much of an effect on anything. This reminds me of the “subliminal advertising” nonsense in the 60s.
Psychology is a field only a little better than homeopathy. It doesn’t work as well as these guys want you to think.
There is no way an advertising agency can have that much of an effect on anything. This reminds me of the “subliminal advertising” nonsense in the 60s.
Psychology is a field only a little better than homeopathy. It doesn’t work as well as these guys want you to think.
Somewhat true for any given individual as far as psychological cause and effect are not exact science and not 100% predictable.
However, exposing large parts of the general population to psychological manipulation of which they are unaware might indeed have measurable effects.
Of course one will not be able to change the outcome of an election from 20/80 to 80/20.
But neither of the elections/referendums in question was that clear.
Influencing just 5% of the voters to change their mind can modify an election result by 20% when voter turnout is 50%.
And targeted engagement of single voters based on profiling data might even have better success rates than 5%.
Influencing just 5% of the voters to change their mind can modify an election result by 20% when voter turnout is 50%
The primary target of f***book campaigning is NOT the influencing of the voters. Their minds are already pre-set onto a set of rails and they nicely glide on that never seeing any content they do not really like.
What the like of SCL, etc do is to influence the turnout. The changes in turnout in some demographics categories in the USA was more than 4 times. From 17% to 80%. Similarly, there were negative changes in other demographics (albeit nowhere near as drastic as the increase in the "secondary school educated white male" category - that is the 80% number).
That is more than good enough to win elections.
Just accept a loss as an inability to do “something” - even if that something is to pay the wrong ad men.
Oh definitely. If it is internal - yes. That is 100% the case.
The issue is that if you do that EXTERNALLY with the success rate SCL/CA has demonstrated you destabilize the country. Nearly every one of their contracts ended up with a civil unrest, attempted military coup or something along those lines shortly thereafter. In fact, you can guess where they have been by that sequence going back to the pre-facebook days of 1993 when SCL was freshly created to satisfy the NATO colonisation need in Eastern Europe and beyond.
As some of those countries now discover that they have been taken for a ride (regardless of the red-lidded crates with the docs being removed) there will be a blowback. There will also be a very happy Vladimir Vladimirovich. While we won in the short term, by pushing for short term gains we actually played in his favour long term. Something we do repeatedly - same as giving him extra 7% in the most recent election due to the way we played the Salisbury cards (and continuing to give him more).
“success rate SCL/CA has demonstrated”
Are you nuts? The company has proven nothing other than to further show how arrogant the establishment are.
Yeah - We only lost because stupid sheeple voted the way the illuminati on Facebook told them to.
Has the world forgotten the phrase “lose gracefully”?
Are you nuts? The company has proven nothing other than to further show how arrogant the establishment are.
No I am not. I know the national psychology of some of the subjects of this "benign influence" as I have travelled extensively there and lived in some of the places.
Were they taken for a ride or not is IRRELEVANT. The losers will decide that they WERE once the news break out. Sure that mean nothing in a passive aggressive traditional everyone stabs everyone in the back with a 9 inch blade place. Just have a look at how peacefully we are debating the referendum being rigged and how many MPs are paying attention
In some other places... A Monte-Negrin or Albanian fuse length is measured in mm if not micrometers. So is their tolerance to being taken for a ride. Especially by foreigners and especially by the British. The discussion on this in Bulgaria already went into Godwin Law (both 1.0 and 2.0), archive footage of the Allies bombing Sofia and a rather riotous and scandalous discussion on national television on why the fighter pilots which flew against the allies do not have a monument. From a staunch NATO ally to that in one day.
All in all I see another Belaz sized order of popcorn being enqueued.