back to article Samsung’s DeX dock clicks the second time around

When Samsung gave the world its DeX dock last year, we rated the device a solid, thoughtful job for its feat of allowing a smartphone to deliver a decent desktop experience. In case you missed it, DeX is the name for an app, a desktop environment and the dock that boasts HDMI and USB out, plus USB in for power. If you plugged …

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  1. Geoff Campbell Silver badge
    Go

    Excellent idea...

    ...but not yet, I think.

    As someone who travels around lots of offices on business, I yearn for the day when I can pitch up on site knowing that there is a docking station into which I can plug my phone, giving me full desktop access to all my documents and other work in progress.

    But we're not even close to that level of standardisation yet, sadly. USB-C might help here, but that's just one layer in what is required.

    GJC

    1. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

      Re: Excellent idea...

      Surely casting is the answer, pair / plug a mouse and keyboard to the phone, but cast to a TV. That alleviates the non-standard connector issue.

      I've been experimenting with casting, as I got a new TV that supports it before Xmas, so far I've been happy with the results to my LG telly, although casting to Win10 from my phone isn't quite as good.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Excellent idea...

        "I've been experimenting with casting"

        If intending to use for business - I'd recommend experimenting at work, with all the firewalls and gateways messing with the network. While I've not tried personally, all I've heard are "it doesn't work" regarding casting on our work WiFi. I'm going to assume UDP broadcasts not making it across the network.

        1. mark l 2 Silver badge

          Re: Excellent idea...

          "I've been experimenting with casting"

          Miracast which was included from Android JB 4.2 was handy for casting to a big screen. It used WiFi direct so you didn't need to worry about having a Wireless network connected to both devices to get it working and you can buy a cheap Miracast dongle for about 6 quid from Amazon which plugged into a HDMI port on a TV.

          Google in all their wisdom decided to drop Mircast support with Android 6 in favour of pushing their own Chromecast which has some advantages over Miracast but requires a wireless network, so is not as useful if wanting to quickly set up your phone on a large display such as for a presentation or to show a video on a big screen.

          1. psychonaut

            Re: Excellent idea...

            <plagiarism>

            @GJC

            ...that's the great thing about standards.....there's so many to choose from

            </plagiarism>

          2. R 11

            Re: Excellent idea...

            @Mark12 - Chromecast Guest Mode should allow a direct connection via wifi (as opposed to using an existing wifi network).

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Casting??

              Why not just connect the phone to the TV via HDMI? You just need a little USB-C breakout that includes an HDMI port/cable, and a few USB connectors (one C for charging and a couple As for keyboard/mouse or USB stick)

              All you'd need to depend on having in the hotel or office is a keyboard - if this sort of thing became big hotels could make keyboards available, and people like me who hate touchpads as a mouse could bring along a small travel mouse. Carrying a breakout dongle, HDMI cable and possibly a mouse is a lot lighter load than a laptop, even a Surface or Air type laptop.

              HDMI requires too much bandwidth to be practical for 2.4/5.8 GHz wireless in an environment with potentially many other users like a hotel or office. If you want wireless you should use the short range 60 GHz standard, but that's not built into any phones nor any TVs...

      2. Geoff Campbell Silver badge

        Re: Casting

        That still requires particular hardware to be available on site. If I have to carry my own keyboard/mouse/casting receiver/cables, I might as well just stick with my Surface Pro.

        I want to ditch my briefcase completely, rather than ditching my laptop in favour of other devices to carry in it.

        GJC

        1. Geoff Campbell Silver badge

          Re: Casting

          (Sorry, that was perhaps badly phrased. I mean that it required the same standardisation that any other docking system does. It's the standardisation that I need, to give me confidence I can use my pocket device when I turn up. I don't really care what that standardisation encompasses, so long as it works.)

          GJC

    2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      Re: Excellent idea...

      ...but not yet, I think.

      Of course not - it's Samsung. By the time it's anything like approaching maturity and/or usefulness they'll have dropped it for something more trendy.

      Samsung - OK at hardware (battery design excepting) but much, much worse at software.

  2. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

    Why might that be?

    Perhaps because "Right-clicking was a bit odd, as it required a sustained two-finger press and took a while to produce on-screen results."?

    If you need a mouse, use a mouse.

    1. TonyJ

      Right-clicking with a two finger press isn't that odd after a while. The MS RDP client and Teamviewer both use this method on my phone not to mention my laptop touch pad does the same function and it actually becomes fairly natural after not very long.

      Granted nothing quite beats a full on mouse.

      1. handleoclast
        Coat

        Re: nothing quite beats a full on mouse.

        I quite like trackballs. Which is strange, because I'm male.

        Even so, I prefer something that can be operated with small movements of the thumb rather than sweeping arm movements.

        Having got the joke out of the way, I have to say that I really do prefer trackballs.

      2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        Right-clicking with a two finger press isn't that odd after a while

        Especially if you are used to a Mac touchpad.

      3. skalamanga

        Two fingers for a right click, and three for a middle click are both second nature to me on my surface pro 3 trackpad. If a tablet has a large enough screen it could also work on that just fine.

  3. John Robson Silver badge

    Why does it need a dock at all?

    I thought all this USB-C stuff (whether TB or USB3) was meant to do all this over a single cable (so you have a second 'blob' but not something the phone has to *fit* into...

    Docks tend to not work well when you put your phone in a case of any sort.

    I've wanted to do this for well over a decade now (I remember discussing a 'pocket computer'* concept with colleagues about 15 years ago).

    * Ok, the world was still VGA and spinning rust, but the concept was, and is, sound.

    1. Aladdin Sane

      Presumably so that the device can draw mains power. I'd imagine running a proper(ish) desktop environment will drain the battery quicker than typical phone use.

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge

      I guess the dock is a powered USB hub so you can plug in a mouse and keyboard and charge the phone, but by making the dock obligatory it's just an excuse to sell more hardware.

      The N8 allowed HDMI to TV, you could plug a keyboard or mouse in with USB OTG (never tried a hub with both but I guess it worked), and you could power it with a charger while you worked as it used the Nokia charger port to charge.

      The "only" thing that was missing was a desktop GUI, but it shows how little we've progressed in eight years.

      1. James 51

        The N900 could run full fat linux but you needed to overclock the CPU to make it run at a reasonable speed. That was over ten years ago.

        1. Dave 126 Silver badge

          3rd party DEX docks (or rather hubs) can be had for about 20 quid on Amazon - they appear to be generic power / video / USB. Reviews suggest they work well, and the vendor quickly swaps out the 1 in 10 units thst don't work.

          The official Samsung docks are upwards of 80 quid.

        2. Christian Berger

          "The N900 could run full fat linux but you needed to overclock the CPU to make it run at a reasonable speed. That was over ten years ago."

          The Raspberry Pi has proven that mobile CPUs are now fast enough for "big fat" OSes like Linux. The Gemini will (hopefully soon) also run a full Linux, but thanks to the keyboard, it might actually be usable.

      2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        I guess the dock is a powered USB hub so you can plug in a mouse and keyboard and charge the phone, but by making the dock obligatory it's just an excuse to sell more hardware.

        The 2017 model included a fan which suggested it was doing more than powering a fan. A hub makes sense for powering and, by avoiding mechanical connections, reducing wear and tear on a critical component. You can get a USB hub and HDMI for the Gemin. Haven't tried them both together yet.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      re. Docks tend to not work well

      or happen to be incompatible with last year's dock model / next year's mobile model / both.

      In short, it's a gimmick. For now.

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: re. Docks tend to not work well

        > Docks tend to not work well

        or happen to be incompatible with last year's dock model / next year's mobile model / both.

        Docks possibly, but the actual connectors - USB-C to video and USB - are generic; hubs that work for DEX also work for the Nintendo Switch.

    4. Sid_the_Kid

      You don't need the official DeX dock; I've got a cheapy version which is just a dongle on a USB-C flying lead.

      Happily it's multi-use; it spends most of its day plugged into my work laptop where it works quite handily, with a USB dock affair connected to it, as the single connection to my monitor, keyboard, mouse and network. If I want to browse my personal emails and suchlike I can just unplug it, plug my phone in (S8) and hey presto.

      1. John Robson Silver badge

        “You don't need the official DeX dock; I've got a cheapy version which is just a dongle on a USB-C flying lead.”

        That’s what I was imagining... the phone could still act as a trackpad, the USB-C can still push power in and pull connectivity out...

    5. tip pc Silver badge

      @John Robson

      Tomorrows World showed a concept where people inserted their card into the keyboard of a pc and worked away, when finished they simply remove the card and the machine locks. They could then walk up to any other machine, insert their card, authenticate and carry on working where they left off.

      I thought we where close with the mess that was roaming profiles and the promise of web hosted apps 10 or 15 years ago, but we seem to be going backwards again. With the fast transfer rates of USB-C we should really be able to dock our phones and the dock run our apps or the phone use the compute in the dock to run the apps and save data on the phone.

      With facial recognition now, we should be able to merely sit in front of the machine and have it unlock to our centrally stored profile.

      All probably possible if we went back to green screen terminals.

      1. a pressbutton

        Have you seen the remake of westworld?

    6. skalamanga

      The huawei mate 10 pro does exactly this, also allowing the phone to be used at the same time.

      There's no reason a type c mini usb hub with type c passthrough for power and hdmi/dp out couldn't become a standard.

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        > There's no reason a type c mini usb hub with type c passthrough for power and hdmi/dp out couldn't become a standard.

        Because USB C can carry HDMI/dp, you don't need a HDMI socket on the hub - just a USB C to HDMI cable. As noted above, USB C hubs play nice with Samsung Galaxy phones, Nintendo Switches and laptops.

  4. James 51

    It doesn't run desktop apps so you still need a traditional computer. If you have the tradional computer, you aren't going to run this along side it. I do like the concept, just can 't see it replacing my new 2400G with Ubuntu.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      It runs Office well if you have 365 subscription, according to reviews. That, plus browser based stuff and the few full screen Android apps that have been optimised for mouse + keyboard, is enough for some people in some situations.

  5. DenTheMan

    £129 competes..

    with Apple for high prices.

    The cost of convenience!

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: £129 competes..

      Twenty quid dongles that work as DEX docks are available.

    2. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: £129 competes..

      It should be noted that many tech companies charge a lot for accessories. An official Samsung or Sony phone case might be forty quid, a third party case less than a tenner. The official case for my Lumix camera is upwards of 80 quid.

      Even some official OnePlus cases, made for them by Evutec, can be pricey.

      Apple aren't the only offenders here, nor were they the first, though I acknowledge their proprietary cable situation.

  6. Christian Berger

    The problem still is the operating system

    Yes, there is termux, which kinda gives you a minimalistic unixoid system on Android, so if you don't need graphics stuff, you can kinda work with Android. However it's a far cry from an actual Debian or Gentoo.

    However with termux you can also just use a desktop with, for example, a Raspberry PI, connect it to your mobile via Wifi and just ssh into it.

    BTW here's a talk from a Swiss guy using termux as his primary operating system https://media.ccc.de/v/zeteco-59-termux_als_betriebssystem

  7. Richard Rae

    I have one on my desk

    So,

    I have been using this in anger for 2-3 weeks (currently on laptop due to fatal deceleration of the phone against a hard surface...), and I have to say that it is brilliant (ish)

    I can do around 90% of the work and the time that it falls over is when I use OneNote as the android client is just not up there yet. Everything else is fine, but I have got a TS server 'just in case' I want to do something more exotic.

    Now the MAJOR bug bare is that the screen touchpad switches off the minute you add a keyboard (USB or bluetooth) which makes it a pain in the a*se.

    I wanted to use a foldable BT keyboard and the phone as the rodent, but apparently not yet.... Just waiting for the update

    1. Aladdin Sane
      Pint

      Re: I have one on my desk

      fatal deceleration of the phone against a hard surface

      Nice turn of phrase --->

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: I have one on my desk

        It's the trouble with the Galaxy S8 - the curved screen makes finding a bomb-proof case and screen protector trickier than it could be. I'm using a glass screen protector by Tate - it's okay, but reduces the sensitivity of the screen a bit - though it's tolerable if you you turn off the 'hard press to home screen' feature for some reason. Apparently older Galaxy S phones had 'glove mode' to up the sensitivity but Samsung doesn't give it any more.

        My Spigen Tough Armour case so works with the screen protector (not all do) but it's uncomfortable in the hand - I might take some sandpaper to the case and round off the sharp bevels. The extra height of the phone over my Nexus 5 doesn't help much.

        1. Dave 126 Silver badge

          Re: I have one on my desk

          Just to report back - I've taken a fine nail file to the case bevels and can happily report a small improvement in comfort. However, the polycarbonate is hard stuff so I'm going to dig out some rougher grit sandpaper or an angle grinder.

          I had been tempted to give it texture by damping a course cloth in acetone and placing against the case, but luckily I remembered it was polycarbonate (which will crack widely in contact with acetone) and not ABS (which melts more gracefully).

  8. HPCJohn

    I am a big fan of USB-C My laptop uses this, and as John Robson says you should be able to use one cable to deliver video, keyboard/mpuse and power.

    Asus have a portable monitor with USB-C and its own onboard battey. google Ass Zenscreen Go.

    This would be an awesome combination with the Samsung phone.

    Me, I would still carry my laptop though as I like it!

    Anyone know when the Asus MB16AP, the model with the built in battrry,

    will be available for sale? No, I am not a shill for Asus. I just want one of the monitors!

    1. aeonturnip

      "google Ass Zenscreen Go" - not sure that's SFW...

  9. Dave 126 Silver badge

    Shed computer.

    I mentioned DEX to a friend. He thought that it would be handy setup for his shed - he can leave an old monitor, mouse and keyboard in his shed, and just plug his phone in.

    This use case sounds more plausible than using a DEX dock as a laptop replacement for travelling, since one is dependent upon finding bits of hardware at one's destination.

    1. Adrian 4

      Re: Shed computer.

      Yes - good luck finding a hotel TV you can use.

      You'll be sitting legs-flat on a bed, holding a keyboard in midair, cricking your neck at a weird angle to see the tiny screen above your head. And it won't work anyway because it will have only an aerial connection - no HDMI, not even SCART.

  10. DropBear

    I'm guessing the "soon" keyboard means they're thinking about adding one of those laser mask / IR sheet projectors to the phone with one of the cameras ogling where your fingers land. Which has the same problem all those already existing "virtual keyboard" gizmos have: nobody using them, apparently due to how uncomfortable banging your fingertips against a solid surface is. Hey, maybe that's their innovation - they'll throw in a rubberised mat to type on as extra...

  11. Peter Ford

    KDE Connect

    I can do the touch pad and remote keyboard thing with my Android phone and the KDE Connect app, as long as my PC is running the KDE Connect widget and can be paired. No cables required, just having the pone and PC on the same network.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: KDE Connect

      No cables required. Just a PC.

      Once that ststement would have raised an eyebrow, these days PCs seem more common than the right combo of cables.

  12. mix

    Dongles...everywhere.

    My experience of this with the old dock and with various flavours of tablet/2 in 1 recently is that I carry a bag full of dongles and adapters. It's a great idea that is crying out for peripheral (mainly display) standards.

    The comment around having a terminal session available to do other stuff is also relevant. But I personally believe that Android will eventually replace Windows as a business OS and that will change. No preference for either but Windows as a Service...is currently painful.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Click image to enlarge

    LOL, nice visualizations. But oh, so much LAST YEAR. Did they not hear that the latest fad is not (fake) female hands, but hairy, real-world, fingers of a real world bloke? Samsung, you're so sexist, I must share my indignation with the world, like NOW

    oh, I can't connect to my facebook?! What's going on, OMG!

    ...

    Well, never mind, twitter'll do!

  14. doublelayer Silver badge

    Requires a good desktop experience

    This requires me to be able to run whatever software I need. I appreciate that standard business users can run google apps or office365 on it, but if I need anything more than that, this won't work well. Also, you could do exactly the same thing with any of the numerous small PC solutions--the kangaroo PC (I haven't ever used one of these, but if the description is accurate, it's a desktop that is portable and has enough battery life that you can move it about without having to boot it when you've arrived), the intel compute stick, any windows tablet with an atom processor if you can handle that, or even a raspberry pi. I realize that with a phone, you already have the device and you don't have to sync any data to it, but if your users are going to be using cloud applications, that doesn't matter so much. For me to be interested, I'll need it to have a full desktop OS. I'd prefer linux, while I'm sure others would prefer windows for those many business applications that are the main argument for windows-over-linux commenters. I'll also need it to be smaller and more convenient than a laptop, because those are self-contained with the maximum that I have to carry being the power adapter.

    I would prefer not to see samsung trying to invent new solutions to the how-to-sync-video-to-a-screen system, as that's an invitation to break something. I don't want to purchase a new screen every four years because samsung has dropped support for this model, not to mention the infinite IoT vulnerabilities that any WiFi solution will undoubtedly have. If they have to do something that doesn't involve the old-fashioned HDMI, then could they at least make it a dongle that I can attach to whatever screen I've already got please?

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