Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired for opposing hiring caps on white, Asian male nerds A former recruiter for Google and YouTube has sued the search ad beast, claiming he was fired for objecting to hiring policies that discriminated against white and Asian men. In a civil lawsuit filed in January in San Mateo Superior Court, plaintiff Arne Wilberg contended that he was an exemplary employee who received positive …
Its not madness tho' is it, centuries of racism, sexism and bias mean that any number of industries have huge gaps in both pay and recruitment levels for significant sections of the community. These levels are not rectifying themselves so you have to do it artificially somehow. I suspect these are sought after positions for the most part so given the choice between several otherwise similar applicants arbitrary choices are often made anyway so why not make those that will lessen the barrier for those that follow.
Its not madness tho' is it, centuries of racism, sexism and bias mean that any number of industries have huge gaps in both pay and recruitment levels for significant sections of the community.
Nonsense.
Discrimination as an explanation for the gender pay gap has been debunked repeatedly and if societal racism is such a big problem, how come Asians thrive in the West to the extent that caps need to be placed when it comes to hiring them?
We should strive for equality in opportunity, not equality in outcome and all the evidence suggests that we've pretty much reached that point already.
Because expressing certain opinions with a name attached, can get you a visit from the HR department, at best, and at worst, kicked out of your job and black listed, never to be able to work again.
Or you're a contractor like me, who has skills that over ride any sort of HR bias, to a degree.
So your solution to age old discrimination is new age discrimination until you and those like you feel the wrong has been righted, which apparently has not happened already. I am sure that we can trust in the integrity of every ethnic group bar whites (and Asians apparently) to let us know when the balance is right according to them.
All based on imaginary numbers and fitting evaluations of things such as the pay gap, the invisible patriarchy, the all ruling white privilege and so on.
Yeah let's do that.
On second thought. Maybe not.
I am a male with two bachelor degrees who was congratulated for getting a job that HR officially offered me six days later. As it turns out a Mexican who is a high school dropout can question the system and cause delays when they do not think it is fair to them.
Just think in my situation, someone with a very high education can be compared to a minority with almost no education for the same job.
This system is rigged to support certain groups based on race instead of prefering someone with appropriate knowledge and experience.
Now we wonder why they cannot find the proper folks here is because those with the experience and knowledge are no longer allowed to get the job.
"Its not madness tho' is it, centuries of racism, sexism and bias".
I like your proposal, only hire the races you want to hire. So for example if I don't want women in my company because they undermine the power structure I can simply put a hiring ban on them.
However although you propose discrimination you also seem to be against it. Make up your mind. If you don't want white and Asian people in your organisation then just say; No Whites, No Asians. Simples.
The only problem is is against the law and it pisses off people of whatever groups you are discriminating against.
If you want some support to change the laws so that racism and sexism are OK again then I'll sign your petition. I know what you mean about some of those nerdy Asian men but they maybe worth tolerating if they are good at the job. Just pay them less and it won't seem so bad as you're getting a bargain.
No seriously, why come in here and make SJW comments on a tech thread then wonder why it's a White/Asian Male dominated Field, it's for a reason.
It's about who can do the job and has the study/background/Will...not about how diverse the staff pool is.
If others can't make it on their own they just don't deserve the jobs period.
This ain't welfare it's the workplace honey.
Meritocracy now!
What you're describing as having 'to do it artificially somehow', is called discrimination based on race and/or gender.
Not what we signed up for.
Jobs should be gained on ability and experience, not gender or race.
If a candidate doesn't have the experience, then they work from the bottom like everybody else in the industry, or get better qualifications to give them an edge.
If a candidate doesn't have the ability, then they need to look for something they are good at.
Anonymised application system are just the first step. Once you're face to face with the candidate it's impossible not to notice gender and ethnicity, and make a good guess at age and gender identity.
I like to think that I've only chosen on merit, aided by a system of pre-agreed questions and sensible scoring system, but who knows what's going on in the back of one's mind. A tricky one is: how will this person integrate with the team.
It turns out that the best way to avoid unconscious bias (if your firm is big enough) is to hire in groups of ten or so - this apparently helps your subconscious take the ‘risk’ that a new hire from a less familiar background won’t fit in with the existing team.
Another alternative is to work out what proportion of minority candidates come to your interviews and attempt only to mimic those rates in positive discrimination, not to try mimic the rates in the general population. Otherwise basically every company is vying for a tiny population.
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Excellent idea!
This would end discrimination based on race and gender in one swoop.
It seems that the western world has moved away from discriminating against females and minority groups and replaced it with socially / politically accepted discrimination against white and East Asian males.
This is not the way that equality in the workplace was supposed to be!
Actually. There are more people who are starting this thing of going around - Doing to the community as the community does to them. Racism does not need to no longer exist. What it needs is to been done to of what it is doing. Discrimination shall receive the same as well. What these "Politicians" and, "Racist" people do not understand is that; people everyday build a destruction of themselves filled with Anger, Hatred, Lust, Negativity, Madness and, so many things that people are starting to react on. Sooner or later, the people will act more demonic upon these things and, the public of people will take more advantage of it. Like the school shootings for example... People bullied them, no one helped them, people disliked them also decriminalized them. For so long, people had hundreds and millions of Suicides upon these things. Now, people are fighting back. Cop killing, school shootings, killing their wifes, husbands, ex's. The world is not getting destroyed. It is getting better. Pretty soon, the people who laugh at these things and, do these things will get hurt, die, get caught in so many things. Eventually, people will end up stop doing it out of fear, or they will die. The world has been weak for so long. It's making people tougher. --- Don't believe it? Look at Americans. They pick fights with all these countries. Now, when it comes to Russia blowing up they're plain and, america takes words among it with wars and threats... Now look how it ends up... America don't want to fight. If it was a poor and small country like Korea then, they would have fought before questioning. Plus, it's not just America with anything i've spoken. It's all countries. Though, i do believe America will be one of the fewest too fall. All the Enemies, all the hate, all the crime... Well, period - It is un-organised and it's not even a civilized country. Of course it has Civilization meaning (people) but, are people really that civilized? People should think of that when they do things to others who could find where they live and, break in their house and do un-civilized things to them and their families. Yet, who knows. One cop followed a guy who wasn't harming innocent people, the guy killed the cop, more cops came, he killed more cops until he finally died... This the tragic things people who aren't even Advanced Beings call Civilized. Hell, even kidnapping Aliens who might be Innocent Aliens which might end up starting wars with the one and only beings we know as Advanced... How will this turn out? Nope your wrong... (We will surrender) as all fools who think they conquered something they never even had. Its not one, nor the two nor 30% or 60%, its more than half, and half over most people who think they understand something when it'll take a meaning like this ( Only another human can make you understand ) to understand a meaning of which is to say ( You do not understand ). Look up "Albert Ernestine" for the (Some things you don't know that you don't know). The Genius who is actually right among something you just wont understand - In meanings: If i made you understand - I can make you understand in how many ways? I can talk to you, torture some knowledge into you to show you that, you'll understand what (I'm going to give you the choice you gave me)<-- Understanding that you won't understand. But, there is more meanings to that but, hell. I don't even know. But i'd rather (Help Aliens to take over the Humans) Why? Because Humans are useless in acknowledging to obey, to respect, to honor, to have honor, to have respect. ---------------- I want to give the world every percentage of life and, everything in life that they wish to give me with a true balance. I speak Good for Good - Evil for Evil. A Doing for a Doing and, a Left Alone for a Left Alone. ---- PS: Not saying it's my desire - I'm saying it's knowledge. But, yes, i would speak of this in that form within myself also. But, ask yourself. Who wouldn't?
The original name "reverse discrimination"...it's been a thing here in the US since mid to late 70's. White males have always been the ones hit by it until recently. Been there, done that, got discriminated against.
As for this case, I hope to hell he's got copies of the memo's, emails, etc. Otherwise he'll get blow away in court.
This post has been deleted by its author
Right, because the entire tech industry has this huge problem that there aren't enough white male people working in it. Because white male people experience such prejudice they can't get jobs even though they are so innately superior. Oh, wait, no, that's bullshit, isn't it? The whole industry is completely dominated by white male brogrammers: if you're white and male, like me, and you didn't get a job at Google, like me, it's because, you weren't good enough, like me. It is not because you were too white or too male, and if you think it is that's a pretty clear indication of why you did not get the job: you were too fucking dumb.
well said tfb, i only wish i could upvote you more, interesting to see those who are prepared to put their own names or handles to their opinions here isn't it...
The idea that hiring people has ever been about merit is laughable, at best it's a box ticking exercise where the relationship between the boxes to be ticked and the requirements of the role are nebulous to say the least, and since that's the case why not add a few boxes so that at least you're not hiring people just because they look, talk and think the same as you
Two people who challenged Google's party line got fired. You want names of people who also challenge this line? Makes me think of this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_of_silence
Anon because I am genuinely concerned we now live in a society where having a minority opinion will lead to punishment.
Anon because I am genuinely concerned we now live in a society where having a minority opinion will lead to punishment.
Doubt no longer, anon (although I might disagree with the "minority" adjective). Even some NYT writers see that the Prancing Progressivist Pol Pot Pretenders are on a roll:
Yet I have to admit that something bigger is going on. It could be that progressives understood something I didn’t. It could be that you can win more important victories through an aggressive cultural crusade than you can through legislation. Progressives could be on the verge of delegitimizing their foes, on guns but also much else, rendering them untouchable for anybody who wants to stay in polite society. That would produce social changes far vaster than limiting assault rifles.
It's really like I'm reading a German newspaper in the early 20s.
Two things have fundamentally changed the landscape. First, over the past two years conservatives have self-marginalized. In supporting Donald Trump they have tied themselves to a man whose racial prejudices, sexual behavior and personal morality put him beyond the pale of decent society.
What is "decent society" though? It is the society of the duckspeaking/doublethinking self-proclaimed "liberal" ready to reformat actual society to feel Good About Veself (and possibly leech some govt money on the side; well, I also have the suspicion that it has to do with the ingrained outlook of a certain ethnicity, but I won't go there.)
While becoming the movement of Dinesh D’Souza, Sean Hannity and Franklin Graham, they have essentially expelled the leaders and thinkers who have purchase in mainstream culture. Conservatism is now less a political or philosophic movement and more a separatist subculture that participates in its own ostracism.
Second, progressives are getting better and more aggressive at silencing dissenting behavior. All sorts of formerly legitimate opinions have now been deemed beyond the pale on elite campuses. Speakers have been disinvited and careers destroyed. The boundaries are being redrawn across society.
As Andrew Sullivan noted recently, “workplace codes today read like campus speech codes of a few years ago.” There are a number of formerly popular ideas that can now end your career: the belief that men and women have inherent psychological differences, the belief that marriage is between a man and a woman, opposition to affirmative action.
However..
The only thing I’d say to my progressive friends is, be careful how you win your victories. It is one thing to win by persuasion and another thing to win by elite cultural intimidation. Illiberalism breeds illiberalism. Using elite power, whether economic or cultural, to silence less educated foes usually produces a backlash.
Conservatives have zero cultural power, but they have immense political power [if only]. Even today, voters trust Republicans on the gun issue more than Democrats. If you exile 40 percent of the country from respectable society they will mount a political backlash that will make Donald Trump look like Adlai Stevenson.
"The next war will be civil".
I hope we can clarify things before we arrive at Zimbabwe Forever or Cambodia Control.
The bigger problem, as I see it, is that the entirety of Political structures, including the left, have moved far to the right of where they were even in the 1970s. So, that side has become an extreme in and of itself. The progressives are, possibly, closer to the center or somewhat left of the center of politics in the 1970s. It seems to me to be a balancing and that is good thing. The NRA is one of those political structures that has moved very far to the right, over the edge of reason even and all for nothing other than increased profits for the arms and armaments industry. Discrimination policies are important. From the settlement of the Americas by Europeans to present, people of color have faced huge amounts of discrimination in the workplace and it will take another generation or two equalize that, if educational opportunities are equal amongst all economic groups and we know that they are not. So, it'll take longer.
Too far to the right or the left and you end up with an authoritarian regime. Trump and his ilk, I use the word ilk there purposefully, are pushing the country into authoritarianism.
Until there is no private money and no Corporate lobbying allowed in politics shit like the NRA pull and a lack of educational opportunities will continue.
"I am genuinely concerned we now live in a society where having a minority opinion will lead to punishment."
thing is, HATING reverse discrimination and political correctness is NOT a 'minority opinion', in spite of what the lefties and howler monkeys want everyone to think.
But yeah, having an opinion shouldn't get you fired, "not hired", nor in ANY way discriminated against. And hiring people based on things that are not directly related to the job makes BAD ECONOMIC SENSE.
Only a mega-corp like Google [with apparent cash to burn] could even AFFORD to hire mediocre people based entirely on race/sex/whatever. Everyone else has to hire competent employees that earn the company more money than the wages+benefits cost.
I agree with you, but...
in spite of what the lefties and howler monkeys want everyone to think.
I think I'm fairly socialist (and, I suppose, hence a 'leftie' - also left-handed) - but I think any discrimination or selection to match a quota rather than hiring on merit is a bad idea....
So instead you got a d/v for relying on your stereotype prejudices.
"thing is, HATING reverse discrimination and political correctness is NOT a 'minority opinion', in spite of what the lefties and howler monkeys want everyone to think."
It does seem to be. Certainly nobody is defending those who challenge discrimination.
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