back to article Symantec ends cheap Norton offer to NRA members

Symantec has ended a promotion that saw it offer discounts on Norton-branded products to members of the US National Rifle Association (NRA). The promotion's web page at https://us.norton.com/nra has disappeared, but remains in the archives of the Wayback Machine, which reveals members were offered discounts of more than half …

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  1. PhilipN Silver badge

    That'll show 'em!

    Urrmmm .... No it won't

    1. sabroni Silver badge

      Re: That'll show 'em!

      Ummm.. actually this kind of boycott/pressure is one of the only ways small consumers can impact the behaviour of large corporations. Suggest you read up on the Nestle boycott. It only takes profits to drop a tiny amount for management to start panicing.

      1. PhilipN Silver badge

        Re: That'll show 'em!

        I await with trepidation your explanation as to how "consumers", "corporations", "profits" and "management" could possibly impact the NRA.

        1. TheVogon

          Re: That'll show 'em!

          "I await with trepidation your explanation as to how "consumers", "corporations", "profits" and "management" could possibly impact the NRA."

          Because the NRA is directly funded by gun corporations. And consumers can vote with their feet.

          1. enormous c word

            Re: That'll show 'em!

            @TheVogon

            "Because the NRA is directly funded by gun corporations. And consumers can vote with their feet."

            Your comment makes no sense, NRA members _like_ guns, some NRA members may _use_ Symantec products but unfortunately Symantec withdrawing a discount to NRA members is irrelevant. NRA members however may vote with their feet and but antivirus sw elsewhere. How does this affect the firearms industry? Only solution to USA gun problem has to come from the govt and no US president has the power to push it through congress.

            1. TheVogon

              Re: That'll show 'em!

              "but unfortunately Symantec withdrawing a discount to NRA members is irrelevant. "

              Alone maybe. But many companies are doing the same, which reduces the benefits of being an NRA member. That and the general distain in which the circa 5 million members are held by much of the rest of the US population will hit their membership and therefore their funding and influence.

      2. Stu Mac

        Re: That'll show 'em!

        Let's look at the Kellogg boycott.

        Half of Americans will react against Symantec et all and use companies still standing with the NRA. That motivated half with long long memories.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        As someone licenced to carry firearms ...

        ... in a European country, I am 100% with ElReg's position as Tweeted.

        Per capita, a number of European countries (included my nation of residence) have more firearms than the US, yet misuse or armed crime at all is almost non-existent.

        I do believe it is a matter of training but even more so a matter of culture: way too many Americans seem to see guns as some sort of penile extension or something. For us, it's either a working tool or an object of technical (or historical) curiosity or a sports implement or something else with a well-defined purpose.

        1. AndyD 8-)₹

          Re: As someone licenced to carry firearms ...

          https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/6k4f1s/number_of_guns_per_capita_in_europe/

      4. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Stop

        Re: That'll show 'em!

        "actually this kind of boycott/pressure is one of the only ways small consumers can impact the behaviour of large corporations."

        actually, this kind of boycott/pressure is done by a HANDFUL OF PEOPLE who use bots to make 1 person look like 10,000, willing accomplice web sites like faecebook and twatter, and various bullying and intimidation techniques to (essentially) SILENCE! THE! OPPOSITION! even though THEIR opinion is in the minority.

        it's how "the left" does what they do. It's been going on for DECADES, in one form or another. It's a classic 'Saul Alinksy' tactic, from paid protesters getting "special media attention" so that the 100 protesters look like thousands, yotta yotta yotta. This shouldn't surprise anyone.

        And Symantec won't be getting MY business. (well, I don't really want their stuff anyway)

        Rush Limbaugh has done a VERY good job of exposing some of these idiots, when they went after HIS advertisers on twitter a while back... using BOTS to make themselves look like a 'legion' when in fact, it was 10 people. Yes, he named names. wanna see?

        https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2014/09/23/the_hidden_story_behind_stop_rush/

        Imagine the libel suits (that did NOT happen) if he had been WRONG about this...

        And THAT is the point: boycotts are BULLY TACTICS used by DESPERATE LEFTIES that can't win in the arena of ideas by stating their case to an intelligent audience. Instead, they must manipulate emotions, engage in "this kind" of behavior, make themselves look bigger than they really are, intimidate, protest, make a lot of noise, and generally be a PAIN in the rest of the world's ASS.

        Does anybody REALLY wanna be CONTROLLED by THESE people? I sure don't!

        Boycotts are the TACTIC of MANIPULATIVE HOODLUMS. I suggest NOT participating in them. And threatening people WITH boycotts is even WORSE. (and I don't have much respect for companies who cave to these idiots, either)

        /me points out that if I found out Obaka likes (or hates) Starbucks coffee, it won't affect my opinion of them. I'd still go for a cappuccino on occasion, or purchase a bag of Espresso Roast beans...

        1. TheVogon

          Re: That'll show 'em!

          "actually, this kind of boycott/pressure is done by a HANDFUL OF PEOPLE"

          Based on what evidence? I think you will find that there is a growing movement for gun control. Plenty of dead kids means that people have had enough.

          And random CAPS reads like a newspaper for morons, so I can't be bothered to read through the rest of your lowbrow rant.

    2. TheVogon

      Re: That'll show 'em!

      Great news. The NRA is a front for gun companies and is largely responsible for the lack of gun control in the US. And therefore is also directly responsible for circa 1 million US civilian deaths by firearms.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Seems like an odd fit anyway. What do a gun manufacturer lobby and internet security have to do with each other?

    1. Palpy

      Nothing but customers and members.

      It's widely done. The AARP or the NRA or the Sierra Club and an airline, a hotel chain, or a provider of software (I feel that Norton anti-virus is practically malware, but never mind) negotiate a mutually beneficial deal: the organization gets to tout special benefits available to its members, and the provider of services gets a certain number of new and repeat customers because the organization members feel they're getting a deal. And they may be, but one which still allows the service provider plenty of profit.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      What do a gun manufacturer lobby and internet security have to do with each other?

      What does a gun lobby and an FCC commissioner have to do with each other?

      The NRA is no longer a gun lobby - it is an organization which does the job of a footsoldier in a larger picture to the bidding of Koch Brothers and Co. Paymaster says it should support deregulation of the Internet - it does so. It is also bringing the guns (or at the very least the threat of their existence) into the discussion as an extra variable. Every time their paymaster needs it. Very 2nd amendment compliant too - it is a form of organized militia as defined there.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      They both fail to protect the innocent.

    4. Adam 1

      > What do a gun manufacturer lobby and internet security have to do with each other?

      Ah, so you've never tried to uninstall a Symantec antivirus product.

    5. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      "What do a gun manufacturer lobby and internet security have to do with each other?"

      Nothing. But the NRA is more like a club or an organization, with membership (not a manufacturer lobby).

      Apparently Symantec just wanted NRA members to have an introductory offer as a benefit for membership [maybe it was part of an advertising deal or something with the NRA]. You might see similar *kinds* of discounts for AARP members. Right?

      In any case, Symantec probably angered too many potential customers by caving to the LEFTIST BULLIES like that. Yeah, empower and enable those FASCISTS who hate freedom by caving into their demands instead of telling the to GO TO HELL!

      The 2nd ammendment is MOSTLY about the right to self defense. "Infringe" on THAT, and you get a population of easily controlled "sheeple", when it becomes ILLEGAL to kill someone in the defense of life/injury/property, someone who's trying to kill/rob/rape YOU. Or your family. Or your neighbor. And so on.

      But as for ME, I'd rather use my BARE HANDS to defend myself. Heh. Heh. Heh.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Generally...

    I'm against all this 'Me Too' crap, but we might just have found a use for it.

    Peace y'all.

    1. sabroni Silver badge

      Re: 'Me Too' crap

      What's crappy about women sharing their experiences of sexual assault? Does it make you uncomfortable?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: 'Me Too' crap

        "What's crappy about women sharing their experiences of sexual assault?"

        Nothing just so long they share their photos and vital stats too.

    2. Snipp

      Re: Generally...

      Please leave this place, you inhuman monster, and never return.

      1. sabroni Silver badge

        Re: Please leave this place, you inhuman monster, and never return.

        Me or Keef?

        And Keef, what is the problem with "MeToo"?

        1. VinceH

          Re: Please leave this place, you inhuman monster, and never return.

          I'm assuming he's not referring to the current #MeToo movement but the more general virtue signalling type of "me too" which has long been a 'feature' of the internet (and probably goes back further).

          Of course, I could be wrong and he could be, as you said, an inhuman monster.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Oh damn...

    Without Symantec installed, they'll have a more reliable computer and much more free time to get on the 'net to post their gun-toting opinions.

    1. rh587

      Re: Oh damn...

      Without Symantec installed, they'll have a more reliable computer and much more free time to get on the 'net to post their gun-toting opinions.

      I thought that, but then I saw:

      "Dear Symantec, attached is a copy of my receipt to McAfee I think I have convinced 27 people so far to do the same as me. Goodbye."

      and thought no. Just swapping one bit of expensive nagware for another.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Oh damn...

        "...McAfee..."

        My Dad had some nasty malware installed on his PC. It caused all sorts of nonsense, unreliable behaviour, locking up his CPU, clogging up his I/O, generally making a bloody nuisance of itself.

        Then to top it all off, it started demanding money!!

        McAfee.

  5. Blake St. Claire

    awwww, poor precious snowflakes can't stand the heat

    NRA is happy when things go their way.

    But not when the shoe is on the other foot?

    Live by the sword, die by the sword. Or in this case by the AR-15.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: awwww, poor precious snowflakes can't stand the heat

      Guns create a gangland culture. Bringing them into the classroom is crazy. When faced with an opponent always take out the greatest threat first, so the teacher gets it first meaning teachers will find their health insurance costs going up.

      What about boycotting the health insurance company used by NRA?

      1. codejunky Silver badge

        Re: awwww, poor precious snowflakes can't stand the heat

        @AC

        "Guns create a gangland culture."

        Guns get way too much credit for these things. Gangland culture is everywhere, regardless of guns. I am in the UK and we still have gangs regardless of the restrictions on guns, and sometimes those gangs pull guns on each other anyway. We hear about it when they hit a bystander or shoot someones door in daylight. But the gangs exist without the guns, carrying knives, acid, various intimidation with or without weapons.

        "Bringing them into the classroom is crazy"

        Unfortunately from an attackers point of view it is not. A school is a no gun zone, people wont be carrying and so there is little to fear until the armed police arrive. However in the recent shooting the police officer didnt intervene (I can understand if his reaction was self preservation) and nobody knows if they would be able to react or not in such a situation. I can see the argument for some teachers being armed if they are required to take basic firearm training and regularly have range hours.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: awwww, poor precious snowflakes can't stand the heat

          I can see the argument for some teachers being armed if they are required to take basic firearm training and regularly have range hours.

          Bloody hell, you obviously didn't have the teachers I had, none of them was suitable for this. Pretty soon it'll be ex forces only need apply as teachers.

          1. codejunky Silver badge

            Re: awwww, poor precious snowflakes can't stand the heat

            @AC

            "Bloody hell, you obviously didn't have the teachers I had, none of them was suitable for this. Pretty soon it'll be ex forces only need apply as teachers."

            Our teachers were pretty level headed and seemed to deal with the one knife incident pretty well from what I hear. One was a regular at a gun club (got me into shooting) but then I am in the UK so he had to hide that fact as people tent to overreact.

          2. TheVogon

            Re: awwww, poor precious snowflakes can't stand the heat

            "I can see the argument for some teachers being armed if they are required to take basic firearm training and regularly have range hours."

            Great until they shoot a few innocent bystanders whilst taking pot shots at a suspect. Or have a bad day and shoot up the place. It would be far more sensible to fix the underlying problem - easy access to guns. Particularly assault weapons that have no legitimate civilian use.

        2. dmacleo

          Re: awwww, poor precious snowflakes can't stand the heat

          actually was 4 officers that waited outside and held back medical personnel

        3. King Jack
          Childcatcher

          Re: I can see the argument for some teachers being armed...

          @codejunky

          So in your world training with firearms will work on teachers but that same training fails on the police who are expected to face danger daily. Where will the teacher store the gun when in the classroom? Will the gun be worn at all times or be in a lock box? What if a student gets the gun? What will the teacher do then? Oh, I know they'll use the 'backup piece, just like in the cop shows.

          And there was me thinking that Trump was uniquely stupid.

          1. codejunky Silver badge

            Re: I can see the argument for some teachers being armed...

            @ King Jack

            "So in your world training with firearms will work on teachers but that same training fails on the police who are expected to face danger daily."

            Not even close. First of all the police cant be everywhere and most of the time we dont want them to be. So the time delay for the police can cost a number of lives already. Second the police officer in this situation was outside, staying away from the issue. The teachers are trapped in the building in the situation and already in harms way protecting the kids. If more people are capable of action in such an extreme situation you will have more chance of someone doing something about it. Having nobody able to act results in disarming those protecting themselves and others.

            "Where will the teacher store the gun when in the classroom? Will the gun be worn at all times or be in a lock box?"

            Good questions. A lock box would probably make sense but it is valid to debate. In a lock box while carrying the key a teacher could have access to the gun in the classroom. But that assumes being in the room or having they key on their person. Having it on their person could be problematic as kids push boundaries and may try to take it. And then you have human stupidity of a teacher leaving it on a desk (would be seriously dumb but there is always one).

            "And there was me thinking that Trump was uniquely stupid."

            Some people believe a sign saying 'no guns allowed' somehow physically stops someone carrying a gun beyond that point. Some people believe a law banning something removes it completely. I believe 2 things are infinite- the universe and human stupidity and I am not sure about the first one.

            1. sabroni Silver badge

              Re: I can see the argument for some teachers being armed...

              Few people believe banning something removes it completely. Do you not think making it more difficult for nutters to get guns would reduce the number of deaths?

              1. codejunky Silver badge

                Re: I can see the argument for some teachers being armed...

                @ sabroni

                "Few people believe banning something removes it completely. Do you not think making it more difficult for nutters to get guns would reduce the number of deaths?"

                I am very happy with the way you put that. You said deaths instead of gun deaths which is the usual mistake. The problem with a nutter is they are nuts. Making it difficult for them to get guns would be good, and pointy things, heavy things and generally other people. But that isnt the situation, they can get guns and that is the situation we must deal with.

                @ King Jack

                "What makes you think a Teacher will have the stones to face an armed attacker when it is not part of their daily routine?"

                This is to dismiss people protecting their homes, family, friends and themselves with firearms and that does happen. Some teachers are already sacrificing themselves to save the children. That in itself is an impressive example of 'stones'. As I said, the more people capable of action in an extreme situation will result in a greater chance of action.

                "As a Trumpman you go into protect mode. Magically get your gun out of the secure location, punching in a code or fumbling with keys."

                You paint an interesting situation. You hear gunfire or the alert of a shooter in the building. The standard procedure (assuming I get this right) is to enact the drills they are taught and teach in case of such an event. Are you saying the current procedure is magic? Are you seriously suggesting at this point people care about labelling childish names like Trumpman? Or do you think following the practised drill and staying alive (kids and teachers) will be more important?

                "You open the door, peak out, get your head blown off."

                From this point on your comment gets beyond fantasy. The drills as I understand them is to lock themselves in the room and cover the windows until the all clear is given. Your action man peaking out to shoot like a hero with the slapstick comedy of everyone grabbing a gun and shooting each other might make for amusing TV or to scare people before saying 'think of the children', but cannot be taken seriously.

            2. King Jack
              Pirate

              Re: I can see the argument for some teachers being armed...

              @codejunky

              What makes you think a Teacher will have the stones to face an armed attacker when it is not part of their daily routine? Imagine you are 'trained' educator and you hear screams and gunfire in the corridor. As a Trumpman you go into protect mode. Magically get your gun out of the secure location, punching in a code or fumbling with keys. (Or maybe you use a holster for quick action). You open the door, peak out, get your head blown off. A child then picks up your gun and starts firing at anything that moves, killing and wounding innocents in the process. The real 'gunman' has long moved on but the kill rate raises as more 'Trumpmen' leap into action this time mistakenly killing fleeing children and teachers as they aren't and never will be marksmen no matter what Trump University they go to to get trained.

              In the aftermath It turns out their was no gunman, just some fireworks let off as a prank. The shooter (your killer) was another trained Trumpman and most of the deaths / woundings were caused by kids shooting each other in blind panic. But hey, infinite universe and all that... Maybe in a galaxy far far away people won't think arming teachers and guns in school are a good thing.

              1. wayward4now
                Linux

                Re: I can see the argument for some teachers being armed...

                What does Trump have to do with this?? Didn't shootings happen under Obama? Yet, you seem to be trying to make political points while trafficking in human misery. Have you no shame, sir??

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: I can see the argument for some teachers being armed...

                  "What does Trump have to do with this?? "

                  The moron suggested that arming teachers (i.e. more guns) is a solution. Only an idiot wouldn't see that getting rid of the guns is the solution. Look at the rest of the planet.

              2. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: I can see the argument for some teachers being armed...

                "In the aftermath It turns out their was no gunman, just some fireworks let off as a prank. The shooter (your killer) was another trained Trumpman and most of the deaths / woundings were caused by kids shooting each other in blind panic."

                Way to go. Anyone can come up with a straw man, but it takes (some) effort to build a straw mob.

                In a properly implemented policy

                1) Most of the time, the correct place for an emergency response firearm is on your person, in a level 2 or 3 retention holster.

                2) They have these wonderful safes, designed for holding firearms, that can be programmed with one or more fingerprints for essentially instant access. No keys, no codes, well worth the money.

                3) You don't go into the hall, you stay inside, protecting the class.

                4) It seems odd that you think that teachers have no ability to recognize their colleagues, most of whom have been working together for many years (most teachers seem to start as such and continue to retirement, working in only a few schools).

                5) I don't know about you, but after I had been shooting pistols for a year, I could put a full magazine through a circle 12 cm in diameter at 18 m, one handed. In a real emergency that would degrade... I would guess a magazine through a 22 cm circle at 9 m, two handed, and better if braced. That's more than good enough. That's firing at about one round per second or a bit slower.

                6) The teachers do not need to be 'heroes' who go out to search and destroy a deadly enemy. They just have to be competent in an emergency and willing to try to save their own lives if the shooter comes to them. If they can't deal with an emergency, maybe they are in the wrong job, because there will always be a few around a school full of children.

                Your wildly fantastical Dystopian flight of fancy is absurd.

                1. TheVogon

                  Re: I can see the argument for some teachers being armed...

                  "You don't go into the hall, you stay inside, protecting the class."

                  So they just press the fire alarm like in this case and pick you off as you come out.

            3. TheVogon

              Re: I can see the argument for some teachers being armed...

              "First of all the police cant be everywhere and most of the time we dont want them to be. So the time delay for the police can cost a number of lives already."

              Every other industrialised country on the planet seems to have competent police that generally manage to look after their civilians when necessary. And the US as the one country that apparently doesn't has a way way higher rate of gun deaths. So clearly that's utter bollocks.

              1. codejunky Silver badge

                Re: I can see the argument for some teachers being armed...

                @ TheVogon

                "Every other industrialised country on the planet seems to have competent police that generally manage to look after their civilians when necessary"

                Just no. We have police capable of the day to day (speeding cars, writing reports, maybe dishing out warnings). I used to live across from a pub known for its violence, drug use and so on (stabbings etc). The police would not come out to deal with calls there. I know, I placed a call as a woman was getting the hell beaten out of her by a brick privy of a guy. Total number of police? Zero.

                In the UK a soldier got public execution at the hands of 2 nutters with machete and a gun (yes a hand gun in a country that bans them. Shock). How long did it take for the police to arrive? That is the police who could deal with the situation? Instead the public chatted with the attackers to try and de-escalate the situation. We have an amnesty and look at the array of war level equipment. The cop shot through the head leaving him blind. Etc and so on.

                Concerts in France shot up, bombings in Europe including UK. Acid attacks.

                "And the US as the one country that apparently doesn't has a way way higher rate of gun deaths."

                Big mistake. Gun deaths. So what? Would you prefer they kill each other with knives? Ramming cars into people? Bombs? Death is death and the US does seem to have problems with it but removing a single tool wont do much for it (possibly make it worse). Suicide is also death and blowing your brains out seems nicer than the many slower ways to go. Look at the new exciting games for kids to play resulting in their deaths. Is that any better?

                Look at the states with the greatest gun problems. The more regulated ones usually. There is certainly discussion to be had over the US and their death situation, but it has to be a responsible discussion.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: I can see the argument for some teachers being armed...

            "Will the gun be worn at all times or be in a lock box?"

            Yes, though I prefer a compact safe - rather sturdier than a generic 'lock box'.

            You need to provide both, in case a circumstance arises where wearing the weapon is not appropriate for some reason (not that such a circumstance immediately comes to mind).

            "What if a student gets the gun?"

            Then you call the police, or other teachers, if the are qualified and equipped. Actually, you would call both.

            There is no reason to expect a student to get their hands on a teacher's gun, any more than we have to be paranoid about a random person taking the gun of a police officer or security guard. This happens very seldom, particularly if the 'taker' is not starting out with their own gun in the first place... in which case you already have a problem. If the risk is big enough to justify carrying a gun, then proper practices will reduce the risk of gun loss to a level significantly below the risk being defended against.

            Armed teachers would make sense in the US, with widely available firearms and a culture that accepts the use of guns to deal with obstacles or problems. It would not make sense in the UK where even some of the police do not carry guns all the time!

            1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

              Re: I can see the argument for some teachers being armed...

              "It would not make sense in the UK where even some most of the police do not carry guns all the time!"

              FTFY.

            2. TheVogon

              Re: I can see the argument for some teachers being armed...

              "It would not make sense in the UK where even some of the police do not carry guns all the time!"

              The vast majority of Police in the UK never carry guns. However those that do are properly trained and carry semi-precision weapons like Glocks, AMT Defenders, SIGs and Heckler and Kocks. Not some gung ho numpty with a colt pistol that shoots at tin cans in a firing range once a year like in the US.

              See for instance:

              https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Police.gun.1.london.arp.jpg

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: awwww, poor precious snowflakes can't stand the heat

          And how much would all that cost?

        5. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: awwww, poor precious snowflakes can't stand the heat

          "I can see the argument for some teachers being armed if they are required to take basic firearm training and regularly have range hours."

          Firearms training and range time means nothing when confronted with an actual situation. Even Police have been known to freeze up in those situations (and that may be what happened to the officer at the school, we don't know that yet). Hard and regular training for the situation in simulated environments is what happens for people who are properly trained at great expense. This is not going to fit in either with the regular education budget or any feel-good ring-fenced one-off payment, nor will the offered NRA training be up to what is required to turn a teacher in a useful deterrent. (some exceptions may occur if some few teachers are ex-military)

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