back to article iPhone X 'slump' is real, whisper supply chain moles

Samsung has provided confirmation that iPhone X sales are way below Apple's estimates for the much-hyped, tenth anniversary special. The miscalculation could end up benefitting Android owners. News that public demand for the £999 phone was falling short of expectations came over the Christmas holidays, with Bloomberg reporting …

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  1. Warm Braw

    Presumably Android would have to be tweaked...

    ... to accommodate the notch?

    I suppose they could just send Jony Ive to a premature grave by sticking some gaffer tape over it and finding the punters don't much care...

    1. Alex Trenchard

      Re: Presumably Android would have to be tweaked...

      I hope Jony Ive gets a very flat, unadorned gravestone.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Presumably Android would have to be tweaked...

        A Gravestone with Apple's rounded corners, now that could catch on.

        1. handleoclast
          Coat

          Re: A Gravestone with Apple's rounded corners,

          It would have to have a notch, of course.

      2. Clive Galway

        Don't forget the notch!

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Presumably Android would have to be tweaked...

        I hope Jony Ive gets a very flat, unadorned gravestone.

        with rounded corners!

    2. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Presumably Android would have to be tweaked...

      Google is ahead of you:

      https://www.google.com.vn/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/2/12/17003326/google-android-p-redesign-notch-support-assistant-integration-rumors

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Let's face it :), everyone is waiting for...

      Let's face it :), everyone is waiting for an edge to edge iPhone with the fingerprint reader embedded under/within the screen display.

      1. JimboSmith Silver badge

        Re: Let's face it :), everyone is waiting for...

        Not everyone, I had a couple who were potential clients both sporting an iPhone X each. Without my asking they told me they'd bought them because they were expensive and then went into how much they paid for them.

      2. greenawayr

        Re: Let's face it :), everyone is waiting for...

        "Let's face it :), everyone is waiting for an edge to edge iPhone with the fingerprint reader embedded under/within the screen display"

        Given the inability of an iPhone owner to NOT crack the screen (my wife dropped hers within 24 hours of me giving it to her, cases and covers were on order but apparently that 24 hour window was still time enough for her to allow it to plummet to a concretey demise), I'd like to see how that works out.

    4. Argh

      Re: Presumably Android would have to be tweaked...

      The "Essential" Android phone came out before the iPhone X and already has a small notch in the top. I haven't looked in to how well their version of Android handles it, though.

      Google is adding official support for notches in the next version of Android though, apparently.

      1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: Presumably Android would have to be tweaked...

        Google is adding official support for notches in the next version of Android though, apparently.

        Nice oxymoron.

    5. Mage Silver badge

      Re: Presumably Android would have to be tweaked...

      Not just the rather stupid notch, but the 1930s to 1950s rounded corners.

      Or can they be re-manufactured to be proper rectangles?

    6. DrXym

      Re: Presumably Android would have to be tweaked...

      The Essential phone (running Android) has its own notch. Arguably does a better job with the design too although the phones are pretty pricey and have other issues.

  2. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

    Don't Apple do this every year?

    at about this time?

    Perhaps (begin conspiracy theory) Samsung are getting a tad twitchy as LG has been rumoured to replace them for next years iPhones. There are also rumours that their new Galaxy S9 won't sell in the numbers that previous models have done.

    (end conspiracy theory)

    I'll get the popcorn in.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Don't Apple do this every year?

      I agree that these companies have to examine a declining market. Is it going in the similar direction PC and other saturate sales markets are?

      No one upgrading because the current tech is "good enough". If the S9 is a mere revision to the S8, then should they not expect tiny sales in comparison?

      The iPhone X and 8 are somewhat silly and small adaptations, not "upgrade" worthy in most peoples experience. If I wanted the "full screen" effect of the X, I'd want it to give me a bigger screen, not reduce that screen with a notch. If I wanted a faster/better phone, I'd wait till the old one breaks/wears out, and currently the tech can last ages as specs/manufacturing is rather mature now.

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: Don't Apple do this every year?

        If I wanted to use Apple's excellent AR silicon, I'd wait til they make a model with rear-facing active 3D scanning.

        Other note: LG's OLED phone screens haven't been universally praised this last year -- see Google Pixel. LG's TVs are superb, but they use a different substrate.

        1. PeterGriffin

          Re: Don't Apple do this every year?

          LGs latest cheap 4K TVs have poor reviews. The RGBW pixel arrangement is Marmite fit the eyes...

      2. Dave K

        Re: Don't Apple do this every year?

        >> "No one upgrading because the current tech is "good enough"."

        Fully agree, but I'd also add that on top of existing tech being good enough, the added problem is that the replacements are getting so darned expensive. Hence, replace a fast, fluid and fully working phone with one that's only slightly faster and flashier for $1,000?? Easy to see why more and more people are saying "No" to this.

        And to note, Samsung are getting there as well. Last time I was due an upgrade, I did look at a new Samsung phone, but balked at the price before sticking with my existing handset.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    I have one question.

    Why put a notch in an OLED? Curved corners on the OLED are bad enough, but at least form factor dependant. However, why have a notch when two bars serve just as well?

    Or to put it more precisely, if you want "all screen" but are technology limited to cameras taking out some of the OLED real estate then don't put full screen video inside the notch. Just put it within the notch, as like 100% of previous video systems have done with letterbox/etc screen options.

    I just see this phone (and similar ones) as an insane Emperors New Clothes, waiting to collapse under their own steam and hot air.

    So while I know my little "rant" is a bit off topic, it is my feeling of the market direction, and the break between the sales/marketing and the consumer/market.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: I have one question.

      The top of most phone screens just display a few simple icons most of the time - no reason not to share that space with a camera. The issue is implementation - LG made a phone with a discrete screen next the camera, not a bad idea.

      1. JohnFen

        Re: I have one question.

        Is that true? That line on my phone is mostly full. I'd have to give up functionality in order to accommodate a notch -- something I'm unwilling to do since the notch doesn't give me any benefit that I care about.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I have one question.

          I agree with John and disagree with Dave. The X has less space for notifications, and it's not just used for that, they want to use it for the address bar/websites/full screen video! That's less than having a Samsung or any other phone square screen!

          How on earth is a Notch an improvement and not a detraction? In cost, use, information, reparability, ease of use... in everything?!

          Not since the iPhone 1* have I seen such a cut down usability from Apple! Every phone after that has been an upgrade. But the X is cutting of the nose to spite the face.

          *No copy paste, no removable battery.

          1. Dave 126 Silver badge

            Re: I have one question.

            Status bar information is the important stuff - battery life, signal strength, clock etc - that needs to be read easily. Adding icons for less important stuff is poor Information Ergonomics, since in effect lower priority information is being elevated to the same status - visually - as important stuff. In addition, the icons don't need to be high resolution. If a notch is cut for a standard camera, you might only be able to fit in say 14 status icons compared to 15 on an uncut screen.

            My point is that if a front facing camera must be fitted to a phone, the area to the sides of the camera might as well be used to display critical status information. The concept is sound in principle. This auxiliary dispkay area *does not* need to be a part of the main display, and might use a display technology with its own advantages (eg low power e-ink or OLED) when the main display uses a different technology.

            However, fitting another component has its own cost implications - though probably not as high as cutting a notch *at this time* (though in future I don't know - the OLED does need to be cut from a larger sheet anyway, it become one process but with an ever so slightly longer tool path)

            As for full video, most content is 16:9 but the ergonomics of holding a phone and reading websites are pulling phone screens towards 2:1 (aka 18:9) - any notch area isn't being used for video anyway.

            1. Dave 126 Silver badge

              Re: I have one question.

              tl;dr:

              If you must have a front facing camera and other sensors, why not use the space beside them to display critical info such as battery life and signal strength?

              Doing so offers a clear usability benefit over otherwise wasted space.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: I have one question.

                For IOS - which only has battery and signal strength at the top of the screen this is true.

                For Android, which has a notifications bar at the top of the screen it is wrong. And the notifications are more useful than a 3D face scanner to me and I guess to most people.

                And the Android notifications system is one of the biggest elements that make Android superior to IOS, for those or us who prefer it.

                Currently at the top of my screen is:

                Time

                Battery Strength

                Wifi Indicator

                Alarm icon

                Bluetooth Indicator

                Plus notifications for email, unread messages and notes.

                These would not all fit in the corners beside the iPhone X notch.

                Of course, to Apple zealots, any feature that their beloved phones does not have is stupid, wrong, unnecessary - until Apple decide to copy it.

              2. JohnFen

                Re: I have one question.

                "Doing so offers a clear usability benefit over otherwise wasted space."

                This is not clear to me at all. In a sense, it's connected to this trend of phone manufacturers to try and be "bezel-less" -- which is, in my opinion, misguided. The assumption that any space that isn't used to display something is "wasted space" strikes me as a bit dubious, not unlike saying that white space is "wasted space".

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Facepalm

              Re: I have one question.

              As said. I have no problem with a notch if used only for notifications. But using it for full screen video/web content means you loose the notifications and damage the user experience to full screen content.

              Just use letterbox/pill box. Why are Apple (and some Android distributors) using notches the wrong way?

            3. JohnFen

              Re: I have one question.

              "Adding icons for less important stuff is poor Information Ergonomics"

              Agreed. But who decides what counts as "less important"? I argue that only the user of the device can make that determination. Every icon on that line on my phone is very important (absolutely more important than a notch for a camera!), or it wouldn't be there.

      2. Tim Seventh

        Re: I have one question.

        "The top of most phone screens just display a few simple icons most of the time - no reason not to share that space with a camera. The issue is implementation - LG made a phone with a discrete screen next the camera, not a bad idea."

        If you only think the notch blocked only 'the top of most phone' and a few simple icons most of the time, then you clearly haven't tried rotating it and used it for other things. Unless you watch movies with one eye blinded, the notch extremely stands out with the asymmetric in landscape mode.

        Sure apple fans can 'compensate' for the difficulty. But no matter how you flip it horizontally to the right or the left, it will still be asymmetrical.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I have one question.

      Here's a view point from the other side of the fence: Funny how many 4 eyes here are so intolerant to anything that's not a perfect rectangle.

  4. djstardust

    Maybe Apple

    Are losing their grip.

    Let's face it .... after spending all their money on Starbucks latte, craft beer and beard oil, all these hipsters don't have a thousand pounds to spend on a mid range handset with a stupid notch.

    Mind you modern art can be twisted to suit any agenda and that's what Apple tried with the notch. not sure they have succeeded this time.

    1. wolfetone Silver badge

      Re: Maybe Apple

      "Are losing their grip."

      You know a company has ran out of "innovative ideas" when the advert they use to sell this phone is of a blonde girl singing something, and showing how her face can be used to animate a shit.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Maybe Apple

        An interesting test for any Apple product these days is "would Steve Jobs have let this see the light of day?".

        Looking at the notched screen, the poo emoji, the $1,000 price tag, and vast proliferation of iPhone models I think I can safely conclude the answer is "no".

        This is what happens when you put some spreadsheet-head in the position of being the creative leader of a successful business. Cook should have that poo emoji engraved on his tombstone.

      2. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: Maybe Apple

        > You know a company has ran out of "innovative ideas" when the advert they use to sell this phone is of a blonde girl singing something, and showing how her face can be used to animate a shit.

        If you're unaware of how much teenage girls and young women use their phones on an hourly basis compared to the rest of us, I would not employ you to sell phones.

        1. JohnFen

          Re: Maybe Apple

          "If you're unaware of how much teenage girls and young women use their phones on an hourly basis"

          I think he was talking about innovation, not talking about what market Apple is or should be addressing. His point stands.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Maybe Apple

          >If you're unaware of how much teenage girls and young women use their phones on an hourly basis compared to the rest of us

          I'm a parent of several - mostly iPhone5 owners - no interest (or chance since I'd be paying) in the latest or greatest - probably a refurb 6 or equivalent Android later this year. They'd have a 1000 better uses for that £1000 price tag too - phones are important, which phone Apple/Android/Whatever (within reason) is pretty much irrelevant.

          If Apple are relying on young women to buy iPhone X they've totally lost the plot - it's a male orientated company with male orientated products in any case.

          1. Dave559 Silver badge

            Apple, male-orientated?

            I don't think that Apple is especially male-orientated? Personally, of my friends who have iPhones, more are female than male, and similarly I have a few female friends who are big Mac fans (as opposed to just grudging computer users in general). The ease of use/software maintenance, phone syncing and general aesthetics are important factors for them (perhaps more stereotypically female, although these reasons are equally important for me, as well!).

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Apple, male-orientated?

              >I don't think that Apple is especially male-orientated?

              Less than 30% of their leadership is female - I'm sure there are worse companies and there will be a stream of whataboutism - but however you cut it, when over 70% of Apple's leadership is male, it's going to be a male orientated company.

        3. Naselus

          Re: Maybe Apple

          "If you're unaware of how much teenage girls and young women use their phones on an hourly basis compared to the rest of us, I would not employ you to sell phones."

          Fairly sure the teenage-to-twenty-something-girl market has not been crying out for the opportunity to easily make their face look like a shit.

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Maybe Apple

          "If you're unaware of how much teenage girls and young women use their phones on an hourly basis compared to the rest of us, I would not employ you to sell phones."

          Nor would I employ anyone to sell phones were they unaware of what fraction of teenage girls have $1k to drop on a new phone.

      3. Booty003

        Re: Maybe Apple

        Post of the year.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Maybe Apple

      They're not losing their grip, just not holding it right.

      Come on, someone had to...

  5. Kaltern
    Trollface

    It's ok, the only-a-year-late HomePod will save them. I mean, those really hip ads, specially handcrafted by the finest advertising minds in the business, specifically targeteting their core audience of kids with rich parents, are bound to work.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I still have the Apple HiFi, and with a 30pin bluetooth adapter (about £5.00) on ebay, it's a great bit of kit.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Apple

    Event Horizon

  7. tiggity Silver badge

    A grand and no headphone socket

    Certainly does not sell itself to me

  8. John Chopper

    So Someone Learn me....

    If the bill of goods is $370, who gets the other $629 ? Seems like a lot for distribution, marketing etc...

    1. Drat

      Re: So Someone Learn me....

      If the bill of goods is $370, who gets the other $629 ? Seems like a lot for distribution, marketing etc...

      A large part of that is straight to profit (destined for a tax efficient territory)

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: So Someone Learn me....

        The purpose of R&D is to create a temporary market advantage that outweighs its cost. Heavily outweighs, if you're doing it right.

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