We already give up our privacy to use phones, why not with cars too? Discussions about the future of cars quickly turn to the pros and cons of autonomous vehicles. But the acronym of choice in such discussions is CAVs – connected and autonomous vehicles – and the "connected" part is already with us. While there are only a handful of fully autonomous vehicles trundling about public roads, most …
Personal-Info slurp is a pact with the devil! Its why I no longer buy IoT, smartphones, laptops, smart-TV's, connected-cars etc. There's simply nothing attractive in the buying proposition. Its all skewed towards lack of transparency / erosion of trust. Maybe flying cars / robot butlers. But this?
Get stuffed retailers / IoT peddlers! This is a wet dream for marketers and data-pervs everywhere. With nothing for the poor consumer, except pain, as all this data gets used against us / hacked in ways we never imagined!
> "In essence, by asking for full price, you ask to purchase privacy,""
And due to "cheap finance " pushing up the prices, I am sure that only the well off can purchase privacy.
So, eventually a world where the rich are free from prying eyes in what they get up to, and a bunch of serfs, spied upon, monitored and "managed" to be most productive.
Thanks, but no thanks. I have no interest to be part of your always on, connected dystopian hell hole.
"I would argue that the people, the demographic who are really nervous about privacy are going to stop driving pretty soon, and the people getting behind the wheel are more digital natives,"
For the record, I only started driving 5 years ago, and have no intention of stopping until I am physically unfit to do so, so with any luck that gives me a few more decades. My girlfriend is of the same opinion, as are a lot more of us "digital natives". I don't know where the spokesperson lives, but just because their little bubble is full of people happy to be violated, doesn't mean the rest of the world is of the same opinion.
Being for/against being spied upon isn't related to age. I would argue it is mostly related to ignorance. People don't realise quite how much they are spied upon. Only when they are burned by it, or they are shown exactly how much info is collected about them, do they turn against the idea.
We are seeing it already, things like Facebook are faltering, people are questioning privacy implications more and more, or just not wanting to be part of the system.
Also, what happens when cars are sold on second hand? Even if you get the initial purchaser to agree to some draconian spying EULA, what about the next person who buys the car? Do they have to sign the EULA? Is it automatically transferred with the car? Then how do you know whose data belongs to who? What if accounts get mixed up and you get each others data?
I know people who bought modern cars second hand (2013 Hybrid), and ended up getting the previous owners twitter account, previous GPS addresses, entire music collection and FB access from the central computer console thing.
There's a reason I disable location services on my phone, and block location on all my apps (because I don't trust that disabling location services actually disables it completely).
I'm also glad that I drive a '93 pickup, as the computer in it is very, very basic. No data tracking there.
The "Already, four-fifths of new cars in the UK are bought with personal contract plans" sounded like a load of carp so I dug out the latest SMMT figures, it's even slightly higher than that. Add in other dealer finance and only about 10% of new cars in the UK are bought outright (or with personal loans).
I've always wondered how people could afford a new car that wasn't a Suzuki Alto, rampant finance seems to be the answer.
I once asked a mate whether the new car was owned by the bank (teasing him), and he replied that no, it was owned by his company, however his company was owned by the bank...
But yes, I have been wondering about this as well. There are also lots of company cars on German roads. Most (all?) bigger, black, high-end and speeding cars with licence plates from certain regions are company cars. This makes the car market skewed a lot towards financed cars especially at the high end.
There are also lots of company cars on German roads. .....This makes the car market skewed a lot towards financed cars especially at the high end.
Noooooo! Germany's (usually) been the model of financial prudence, but now you've caught the car finance plague.
But who is surprised by this? It is exactly the same model which allows those high-end mobiles to command prices now up to a thousand squids/bucks. Very few people would pay that up front but using 'easy terms' they are happy to pay all that plus more to get it for less that a couple of hundred a month with free calls thrown in 'for nuffink'.
It was at least 10 years ago now that I looked at the lease option for a car and when I went through the numbers, in essence I paid for the car over 4 years and then just handed it back...such a bargain.
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I've always wondered how people could afford a new car that wasn't a Suzuki Alto, rampant finance seems to be the answer.
Worth investigating the cost of these deals. At a headline level they are engineered to look attractive (usually because the example is based on ludicrously low mileage), but rarely is the car owned without additional payments, and it becomes a permanent car rental programme that works out as a very expensive way of driving a car. Friend of mine has a lease contract on a large 4x4 which over four years will cost around 50% more than the outright cash purchase, and that's before any "payment to own", or lease return charges for damage or excess mileage. But £x hundred quid a month sounded really affordable.....
The men stopped and gawped. The women marched resolutely on.
There are some studies that claim having an expensive car makes men significantly more attractive, though...
I'm not sure for which kind of women, and whether you want them to be attracted to you.
"I'm not sure for which kind of women"
The existence of specimens being attracted to males who aren't either rich / beautiful / rich / charming / rich / alpha-dominant / rich (or at least a credible alimony scam target) has long been theorised but frankly I expect to see supersymmetry confirmed long before that one.
"I've always wondered how people could afford a new car that wasn't a Suzuki Alto, rampant finance seems to be the answer."
Depends on your income. For some people 50K on a BMW or Merc would be small change. Others save up for years, but yes, most people use finance.
Personally like probably the majority of car buyers, I just buy second hand. Let some other mug suffer the major depreciation hit. For the price of some gutless underspecced shitbox shopping car fresh out of the showroom you can buy some pretty decent 3-4 year old motors that are still pretty mint.
"For the price of some gutless underspecced shitbox shopping car fresh out of the showroom you can buy some pretty decent 3-4 year old motors that are still pretty mint."
Trouble is, you can't be sure of that. Knowing they're about to trade their cars in, many drivers stop taking care of them and run them into the ground before trading them in, figuring the showroom won't know the real real condition of the car until after the sale's closed. Don't forget that one major reason for trading in a car, other than to trade up, is to replace a heap.
Personally like probably the majority of car buyers, I just buy second hand.
And there's something of a glut of these ex-lease cars, so that can work well.
Alternatively if there's the money use a broker - the majority of new cars you can get around 20% off list price brand new, as first registered keeper, particularly if you're willing to be flexible on timing or some element of spec. Pay the deposit/commission by credit card and there's no material risk.
"I've always wondered how people could afford a new car that wasn't a Suzuki Alto, rampant finance seems to be the answer."
Well, not really. For the most part, the answer is company cars. Relatively few people actually buy a brand new car on personal finance, but a lot will get it through their work. Importantly, this includes self-employed people and small businesses - pretty much any contractor, builder, pet washing service* or anything like that will have their car on the company books as a business expense. Most other people who want a relatively new car will just wait to pick up all the ex-company cars that are being replaced on a 1 or 3 year cycle, so the stats for actual brand new cars are massively skewed by it being cheaper to rent and write it off as a business expense than to actually buy a car outright.
* Seriously, there are three of them on my street. Who the hell needs to pay someone to spray their dog with a hose?
"Add in other dealer finance and only about 10% of new cars in the UK are bought outright (or with personal loans)."
... possibly due to the way the motor industry seems intent on preventing you from buying outright. Just over 3 years ago I was replacing my 6 year-old car. Seemed to be no talk of any discount from list price for an outright purchase (which is what I really wanted to do) but with PCP I got an extra £2500 trade in plus 3 years free servicing + finance was on a 0% offer - so that's what I went for leaving the money I wouod have used to buy outright in the bank. After 3 years I got all the "your PCP contract is coming to an end - come in and discuss your options for a new car" which I ignored, paid the final payment and in another 3 or so years time I may be looking to replace a 6 year-old car again.
Just over 3 years ago I was replacing my 6 year-old car. ...
Then go at differently. Have the cash at hand. Go in, let them play their finance BS and sign the loan and get the discounts. Then, within 30 day, pay the thing off. You get the discount, save a pile of money and the finance company gets screwed due to all the paperwork costs, lost profit, etc.
The first dealer I approached when I bought my recent car was entirely befuddled by the concept of paying cash: apparently, less than one purchase a month there is by a means other than credit.
Not only are they incentivised to sign people up to leasing/finance with a nice little kickback but the recent changes to interchange fees for card processing seem to have had the effect of pushing up the cost of accepting card payments.
If the car companies and the banks are already fleecing you, it seems entirely predictable that the tech companies want a piece of the action.
I guess they get higher commissions if they tie you into some profitable (for them) financial deal.
When buying my last one, the dealer tried in every possible way to persuade me into some kind of financing, just nothing was really below 7%, and I really had no investment delivering more than that (probably I should enter that market too), while paying cash was no issue. At least I got a discount, my father buying a different brand didn't even got it.
It's quite clear with such interests rate it's a big advantage for them to make you pay the car more - it's another of the many ways money are transferred from the base of the pyramid to the top without much effort, just luring people into buying something they can't afford.
Just like when they give you for free credit cards... with big interest rates on debts made. They act like drug dealers.
I prefer to save and then buy only what I can afford, unless really forced to do otherwise, and anyway, minimizing any outstanding debt.
Restore an older car (or have it restored if you're not a wrench). Ground-up restos are spendy, true, but it's still far cheaper than purchasing a new car. And you get to pick the electronics, horsepower, drivetrain, brakes, suspension, wheels, safety equipment, interior, yadda, to suit yourself.
Works for me, anyway :-)
My fleet doesn't have a vehicle younger than 1972[0], and I'd have no issue driving any of them cross-country & back.
[0] With the exception of the Peterbilt, which is a whole 'nuther kettle o'worms.
It is possible to buy a newish car (inside the past ten years) that doesn't have always-on communication to the mothership.
It is not possible to do that with a phone, say. This is why phone buyers will put up with that crap, and suprising number of car consumers will not.
Plus, having someone look at my texts without my consent is likely to cause them giggles/boredom, but having someone look over my speedometer without my consent is likely to cause me jail time.
My countless years of watching anything remotely car related, form the poshest "I know someone we can pass it off to, with profit, regardless of budget overruns" shows to the crummiest "a coat of spray can paint over the rims and we're good to flip it mate" ones left me firmly convinced that restoring any car with any level of properness costs several times the price of a brand new one, easily, no exceptions (and would probably suffice for an entire lifetime's worth of second hand car purchases). Unless of course your definition of "new car" targets a price bracket above what some supercars cost.
Smartphone users may be used to having everything they do tracked,
Used to, or just totally unaware - not something they feel will impact them or do anything about so they just not worry...
Will some future generation get wise (en mass) or just be more on the teat, because 'it's just how things work' and has done since their birth?
and software fixes when data from cars show a part is reacting to certain temperatures, based on location
So my carburetor (cars still have those, right?) is making a loud clanking noise when it is hot outside, will the car software solve it by increasing the radio volume?
Cars still have radios, right?
And before you say that carburetors are good enough for everyone, the main reason they went away is fuel efficiency. As carbs are completely mechanical, they're stuck being REactive, so they don't respond well to rapidly-changing conditions which makes your engine suffer. Thus the move to fuel injectors which can be controlled more carefully.
"And before you say that carburetors are good enough for everyone"
Oh, not just good enough - BETTER! A carb-equipped car would have kept going (and if not, I guarantee I COULD HAVE MADE IT TO on the spot) when my smartly injection-controlled (but otherwise ancient) car left me able to crank but otherwise fully inert and thus stranded due to a mundane relay failure (that just happened to power... the ECU; as it turns out, it's a failure waiting to happen on every single car of that model: the entire production run of those relays tuned out to be faulty with a botched cold solder joint; naturally, they were never recalled).
"Oh, not just good enough - BETTER! A carb-equipped car would have kept going"
Yeah, right. I remember cars from the 70s and 80s and they were in general unreliable piles of scrap iron no matter who made them. For any sufficiently long trip you had to have maps of potential garages "just in case" and half a boot full of spare parts. I remember one particular fun time being stuck on a motorway in the pissing rain with my parents as the distributer arm had broken - again. Give me electronically controlled and actuated engines any day.
Never owned a car with points as even my 1970s cars had electronic ignition.
Points on cars: A work of great evil. Back in the 70's most UK cars had mechanical distributors, and any vaguely damp morning would see entire street loads of cars failing to start, to the anthem nnnnaaaaaaaahhhhhh....nnnnnaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh...nnnaaaaaaaggggghhhhhhh, although after a few short minutes both the pitch and volume dropped as the defeated motorist flattened the battery. Of course Britain's then state owned car basher and its lazy, bolshy workforce were perhaps more responsible for this than the underlying technology.
Back in the 70's most UK cars had mechanical distributors, and any vaguely damp morning would see entire street loads of cars failing to start
Yes. Dodge was another manufacturer famous for their inability to make a distributor cap that kept out any moisture whatsoever. Stalling every time you stopped was just taken for granted, when it was wet out and the engine compartment hadn't yet warmed enough to dry the damned thing out.
Of course, it's not like that went away at the end of the 1970s. I had an '88 Hyundai Excel which cracked two dizzy caps, if memory serves. Also needed a number of other fairly minor repairs in the four years I had it, such as a thermostat replacement. On the plus side, it was dead simple to work on, since it was just a basic carb'd four-banger with a decent amount of room in the engine compartment.
The last carb'd car that i'm aware of was sold in 1993 or so. So it's been 25 years.
That said, a well-tuned carb gets fine mileage and the emissions aren't much an issue after it's warm (which is 95% of when emissions happen on any engine... cold motors don't burn fuel very well, and cold cats don't cat [?] very well).
Of course, while you're paying a huge premium for EFI and multiple catalytic converters, notice that giant semi next to you, the commercial delivery truck, that has effectively an open exhaust and blasts soot everytime the light goes green? Yep! Just like the catalytic converters on airplanes and container ships....
But more importantly, if we'd stop shrieking that the car was the end of the environment, we'd realize that things like cows and coal-fired powerplants are a bigger issue by far.
No one wants to hear the right answer (and so I'm about to get massively downvoted) but STOP MAKING MORE PEOPLE. WE HAVE ENOUGH HUMANS TO GO AROUND. And that'll solve basically any eco-disaster-headline-maker you can come up with finding. Seven and a half billion people is too many.
"Of course, while you're paying a huge premium for EFI and multiple catalytic converters, notice that giant semi next to you, the commercial delivery truck, that has effectively an open exhaust and blasts soot everytime the light goes green?"
That might be true in the US but here in europe trucks are required by law to have particulate filters and NOx capture mechanisms (usually adblu).
"we'd realize that things like cows and coal-fired powerplants are a bigger issue by far."
They are, but you don't generally sit on top of a power station chimney or next to a cows arse breathing in the fumes.
"STOP MAKING MORE PEOPLE. WE HAVE ENOUGH HUMANS TO GO AROUND."
Can't disagree with that.
Carburetors had to go away when catalytic converters became mandatory, they can't control with sufficient precision the fuel-air mixture - and if it is too rich and doesn't burn completely, the converter can be damaged or go aflame because of its heat.
Lambda probes check the exhaust gas and send feedback to the injection system for any change required in mixture.
But they were already going away in high-end engines because electronic injection allowed for far better performance.
I had a car with EFI and no cat.
Was fine.
There was a carb model with poxy little engine, poxy with basic injection, but the biggest 4 cylinder EFI engine was so much better. Any differenences in manufacturing costs were all down to Bosch.
When cats hit they got detuned, I deliberately bought pre cat to get the higher compression.
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