A tiny Ohio village turned itself into a $3m speed-cam trap. Now it has to pay back the fines A tiny village in America has been ordered to pay back more than $3m in speeding fines it collected from motorists – after its claims of "sovereign immunity" were laughed out of court. The town of New Miami, an hour's drive from Cincinnati, Ohio, boasts a population of just 2,200, and an annual budget of $1.75m. That budget …
With a population of only 2200, which presumably translates into about half to one quarter that many properties, they'd have to raise property taxes quite a bit more than "slightly" to get the $3 million they've just lost.
Not that I have any sympathy for these neoliberal con-artists.
There was a small town with a parked school bus as a "motorist" trap in a Rockford's Files episode.
What is it with USA and law enforcement. Is the problem elected Sheriffs?
Also I noticed that poorer people (any skin shade) are housed in trailer parks or cheap wooden houses OUTSIDE the town or city limits. I was told it was so they would have no vote in local councils.
"Also I noticed that poorer people (any skin shade) are housed in trailer parks or cheap wooden houses OUTSIDE the town or city limits. I was told it was so they would have no vote in local councils."
Actually, it is to keep tornadoes away from city centers. Rednecks and tornadoes love trailer parks, and if the trailer park is away from the city, then the tornado will naturally gravitate toward that and not the city, thus saving the precious Wal-Mart.
> There was a small town with a parked school bus as a "motorist" trap in a Rockford's Files episode.
It's been used as a plot device in a number of 1970s US TV series. I recall it being in Charlie's Angels and The Invisible Man amongst others.
Corruption across much of the USA is just as bad as various undemocratic regiemes the US government like to denounce (and so is the lack of democracy in many of these areas)
Is the problem elected Sheriffs?
I think the problem is "revenue". I can't think of any place in the US (and I'm probably wrong) where the sheriff isn't elected. But without raising taxes, some cities opt for the traffic violators to make up the shortfall in cash. Here in Oregon, there's 3 towns I can think of off the top of my head that when you hit the "city limit" sign, you best be doing the posted speed limit. And if you're driving a semi-trailer rig, the fine is even higher.
"Here in Oregon, there's 3 towns I can think of off the top of my head that when you hit the "city limit" sign, you best be doing the posted speed limit. And if you're driving a semi-trailer rig, the fine is even higher."
Assuming you are being serious rather than trolling and setting aside for the moment that some places feel reducing speed limits is a better way to improve road safety rather than teaching idiots to keep off the road/highway and out of the traffic, there is normally a reason for the posted speed limit and you probably shouldn't be going faster.
I am a driver and I often complain about the speed limit on some roads (especially when the gits* in charge decided to change it purely as a revenue stream**), but I also understand that the limit is there for a reason and it is not up to me to ignore it just because I don't like it.
I have also seen the results of idiots driving faster than is safe for the conditions and would say that, without exception, the bigger the vehicle the worse the carnage - so why should being an idiot in a semi not be punished harder than someone being an idiot in a car?
*Git = 'Awkward or obtuse person', which describes some of the people responsible for deciding speed limits in the UK perfectly.
**There are several roads in the south-east of England that were, for many years, "national speed limit" roads and people rarely had accidents on them. Then, when the local authorities could keep (some or all of) the revenue generated, these same roads suddenly became accident black spots and the gits reduced the limits on a load of them but somehow managed to forget to put the new signs up where they could easily be seen (A24 Michelham Bends between Leatherhead and Dorking was the first and best example to spring to mind - there are many, many more!). Or they will slowly extend "temporary" reductions brought in for road maintenance work and "forget" to remove these when the work is completed.
No sir.. not trolling. The I-5 corridor has two areas that I know of and there's another one on Highway 1, the coast highway. Might be more on the coast though since it's a heavy tourist route. The speed limit on I-5 is nominally 65 mph and being rural, it's mostly ignored by most folks who will run at 9 mph or so over the limit. Where these "traps" are, is at the extreme edge of the city (small town actually) limit. The cops lie in wait at that borderline. One of the cities does drop it's speed limit to 50 mph and just after (maybe a few yards) there will be a radar car sitting in the bushes.
The difference is with other towns, they usually have a "50 mph ahead" sign on the highway to notify the drivers of a speed limit change.
Note the change crossing from Berkshire to Surrey. Perfectly safe dual carriageway in Berkshire pulled back to 50mph on the Surrey side. National (= 60 mph or 70 for dual carriageway). Go figure (and note the appearance of speed cameras). Coincidence? PP
Raising the property taxes really won't help much. The tax rate is already pretty high at ~1.7% and a quick web search shows the property values are just the opposite with most if not all falling below $100k. Compounding that is the fact that there are only about 900 households in the village making $3M a debt over $3k each which is nearly 10% of median household income. It's pretty clear this isn't a wealthy area and it's more than likely going to result in the village being forced into receivership or bailed out by a higher/larger entity. I'm all for fining the greedy sods who put this plan into place but I don't see where even selling off the village owned real estate would cover this debt given the low real estate values.
Well, Trump was never "elected", he was installed by the "electoral college" through a process called "gerrymandering", which is how republicans overthrow election results, and that is what the US calls "democracy".
"Well, Trump was never "elected", he was installed by the "electoral college" through a process called "gerrymandering",which is how republicans overthrow election results, and that is what the US calls "democracy"."
Gerrymandering could have only a tiny affect the electoral college - only Nebraska and Maine give out the electoral votes by congressional district; the other states are winner take all. Nebraska is solidly Republican and gerrymandering would have not had any impact; Maine state legislatures are mostly controlled by Democrats - the state legislatures are where the gerrymandering gets approved - so any gerrymandering would have been probably done by the Democrats.
For those outside the US, gerrymandering is when a voting district geography is reshaped in such a way that the included population will vote in a way the "designer" desires. The voting district can end up in with a strange distorted shape. Both parties are guilty of using it.
PrometheusPB wrote: "Well, Trump was never "elected", he was installed by the "electoral college" through a process called "gerrymandering", which is how republicans overthrow election results, and that is what the US calls "democracy"."
It's also one of the ways Democrats overthrow election results when they win, if you ask Republican supporters, along with promising the earth and then blaming everyone else when they fail to deliver (just like Labour in the UK, funnily enough. Just ask the students in Canterbury). Only you won't normally get to read that or see it on the news because Trump does not have quite the same, ah, "cosy" relationship with the Media as his opposition. But since he *did* win, why have all those actors and other 'meeja personalities' and celebrities etc not left the country as they promised?
Further proof of Democrat "intelligence" can be seen in the way they accuse Russia of winning the election for Trump but then started running around screaming in panic screaming Trump was going to start a war with the same people who were supposed to be the sole reason he got elected...
Sigh. You don't understand the Electoral College; don't understand gerrymandering; and you don't understand that the US is a republic, not a democracy. Your post is too wrong to even be called wrong.
These are the United States. The states elect the President, not the aggregate vote of the people. In all but two small, Democratically-controlled states, the Party winning the vote gets the entire state's votes in the Electoral College. Gerrymandering is not involved.
It's very much like the baseball World Series in the US. The winner is the one who wins four games in a seven game series. Quite often, that is not the team that scored the most total runs over the entire series. It's the best way to select the person most representative of the wishes of the entire country, not just the coastal megatropolises.
When UK speed cops (other countries possibly too) spot a driver going a tad over the speed limit they have the discretion to warn them and send them on their way. A camera might be placed to deter speeding in a high risk or speeding prone area, but they capture everyone. Treating the habitual speeder doing high speeds in busy times and the ordinary individual drifting over the limit a bit when it's quiet ( late at night?) exactly the same. And some of these cameras are placed to catch the unwary, but let the locals zoom along, slowing for the camera.
I got caught in one of the latter. Yet near my home cars zoom along the local dual carriageway well over the limit, consistently, hour after hour. There's an average speed check. 50 MPH. I've never yet heard of anyone being fined. I've tried to get the information from the authorities and they don't claim to be fining many people. This makes me very resentful. If there is no justice in how the system works it loses its credibility.
This makes me very resentful. If there is no justice in how the system works it loses its credibility.
In the UK there is no justice in speed enforcement.
At the outset of this post let me say I have never been charged with or convicted of any offence, including motoring offences. I've not even had a speed awareness course. That, however, does not imply I obeyed the law....... I've also got 20 years no claims bonus despite never protecting it.
There's lots of arguments about the dangers of speed, which are usually simplistic and most often miss the point about safe driving and accident avoidance (almost all accidents are caused by lack of obervation, anticipation, and correct & timely reaction). A point routinely missed by the anti-speed lobby is that often perfectly sensible limits are reduced for political reasons, leading to an inevitable uptick in non-compliance, which in turn leads to the deployment of cameras, which leads to the resentment & disdain in which the law is held. In the case of this article, it has literally been used as a tax and not as law enforcement.
I've never been caught speeding, despite speeding for decades - though I rarely speed now. I'd keep my speeding to out of town areas and motorways, but when I was younger, and before it was an instant ban, I'd regularly be doing 100mph on quiet motorways (overnight). Fast reflexes and good observation kept my licence clean. And yet, during that period I watched as older drivers such as parents of my friends, my dad etc amassed points as though they made prizes, and usually for far lower speeds than mine. I presume they were getting caught because they lacked the reflexes or observational skills to avoid cameras. Where's the justice in that?
They were ticketing people for doing at least 46, which is 11mph over the posted speed limit, that's fairly generous even by UK standards.
Of course, the question is, was the limit 35mph because the road was unsafe, or because that brought in more revenue? It looks like it was the latter.
Quite so. Since the original scheme was cooked up between above-named and the council I do not know why none of the lawyers have found a way to charge conspiracy, the civil kind by joining them as co-defendants.
After all, the first rule of litigation is to target the entity with the deepest pockets.
AND Optotraffic got 40%.
I can only guess at the sort of vibes at weekend tennis matches, softball games or church gatherings, when there's only 2,000 people. Must be nearly as bad as rural U.K. when Harriet gets to present the raffle prizes at the church fete instead of Henrietta. If looks could kill ....
Yes. The systemic flaw exposed by this episode is just another example of the perversity of introducing the profit motive to law enforcement. The most egregious example is of course the private prison industry, and perhaps the most raw example is the exercise of civil forfeiture procedures. Fundamental reform should assure that law enforcement is never a revenue center, but that the value of such endeavors be derived solely from the inherent value of enforcement.
But as (neoliberal) Nancy Pelosi famously remarked in recent years: We're capitalists.
Speed limits don't save lives, proper education on how to handle a motor vehicle, along with basic common sense does. But those two things are extraordinarily rare in the US. The Autobahn has no speed limits, and it is safer than nearly all of the US's entire highway infrastructure.
US driving test: Parallel park, use a turn signal. That's it. No training on handling icy roads, or a highway tire blowout (or other mechanincal failure), no defensive driving, not a word on collision avoidance, nothing. They will never teach you how to drive a vehicle, but are sure happy to collect fines. It is actually illegal to practice or train another driver in an abandoned parking lot when it snows, because it is deemed "reckless driving"...when actually it is training to create "wreckless driving".
I got a ticket for it. When it went to court, I said the officer forgot the "W". The magistrate asked me what that was supposed to me, and I plainly said to them that not only am I a highly-trained racing driver that is far more skilled at driving than ANY police officer nationwide, but that I was making a safer driver out of my apprentice because there is NO REAL DRIVER EDUCATION TO BE LICENSED to handle a 4,400lb (2000Kg) vehicle on the road. I also defined the term "wreckless" to them, and noting that I had had no collisions that were my fault EVER on my driving record, the judge begrudgingly relented and waived the ticket with the false declaration the "the officer wote down the incorrect statute for which the alleged violation was to be enforced."
I was observed speeding in another incident, and refused to stop. Thanks to the ER staff, I was able to get that thrown out because I was trransporting someone to the hospital with a critical injury, and had I waited for an ambulance, they would have died only minutes later from when I got them into ER. Again, my driving record and my racing license proved that I was doing the right thing, and was far above-and-beyond capable of what I was doing, as well as my instant move to action saving their life.
Speed limits are there for two reasons:
1) To keep the uneducated and unskilled driver from going beyond their capabilities when handling a motor vehicle (shouldn't that be taught in driving school?)
2) To give the local PD a means of fundraising so they can buy al those expensive toys that they cannot get governmental approval on, like the $1.3 million sculpture sitting in a certain police department office as you read this, or an expensive Italian sportscar as an alleged pursuit vehicle, in a town that has never seen a single high-speed pursuit over 90mph, much less having ever had to chase down a supercar fleeing the law.
What does this sculpture have to do with law enforcement? Absolutely nothing, they just wanted the lobby to be prettier, and to defiantly flaunt their skills at brazen theft (aka civil forfeiture). L.A. might have a justification for a supercar, but then again not, because the radio travels faster than any manmade vehicle ever conceived, and helicopters have a knack for not only avoiding traffic, but generally going faster than most cars can go on the road, as they do not need to avoid traffic and have a literal bird's eye view.
Because in America, law enforcement is above the law, and it is heresy to question it. That's called "freedom". They are even so boldly cocky to detemine the fine for speeding at $101...as if the extra dollar made any point other than to force you to get $120 out of the atm and to disrupt your finances.
How do I exact vengeance upon fines that I am allegedly due? I pay in pennies. Yes, I come in with a wheelbarrow of pennies. The clerk may complain, but I tell them, "Nobody said criminal enterprise was easy, but you chose to work for it. Now take my First Amendment protest and get to counting." Then I seek a higher court, and have it overturned, so they have to pay it all back. Justice is sweet, but it would be better to get justice from those supposedly upholding it. I grow tired of having to do it myself when "law enforcement" doesn't do it by itself (which I was led to believe was their sworn duty).
When justice doesn't pay, pay it back with justice....in pennies.
Dont know much about these days, but in the early 80's our drivers ed in school did do exactly this, to top it off, i learned to drive in winter, in New England. Our instructor would take us to an icy parking lot, let you get up to 25mph, then slam on the brakes, you didn't pass until you could keep the car straight in a skid. His words still reverberate in my head after all these years, going down a snowy 35 MPH road with 2 bare tracks of asphalt to keep the wheels in.." Track.....Track.....keep Tracking......
There are private driving instruction companies, at least here in Colorado, that use a skid track and a fast maneuver track as part of their instruction. Not the cheapest option, buy well worth it for my kids. I've seen them use the skills in real life situations and did not regret one cent of the cost.
So. Maybe it isn't part of the state test, but the instruction is certainly available.
Speed limits have never saved a single life...
You wrote a massive comment there, but sadly you lost me at your title.
Speed limits *have* saved lives. Lots of them.
Your rant comes across as arrogant and naive. I started writing a response, but honestly you've made so many bad points that I could have been writing it all day.
By the way -- "reckless / wreckless"... no, sorry, you're not the first to come up with that clever little wordplay.
"Again, my driving record and my racing license proved that I was doing the right thing, and was far above-and-beyond capable of what I was doing"
Perhaps the right thing in that particular circumstance, however the above statement edges into hubris.
A driving record doesn't show how many accidents a person has caused, and isn't complete until you are done driving.
A racing license is for a very different environment and proves little relevant to the public roads.
If you think about it, the public roads
- are a least common denominator public cooperative. Drivers won't always react properly to new situations.
- comprise of 'untrained' and distracted drivers that won't even see a vehicle coming at high speeds in time
- are poking along for hours every day, not just for a short blistering race once a week. Attention levels aren't the same.
- hold vehicles with a fraction of the safety and performance features of a 'race' car, street suspension, etc.
- no on-hand medical and emergency vehicles when a problem occurs
- no timeouts for an accident
- cars crossing traffic, going in different directions and behaving unpredictably
- pedestrians, kids, pets, grandmas
- roads that are not perfect but instead have potholes, dips, barriers, tractors and other hazards that don't exist on a race track
- visibility designed for a fraction of racing speeds
- etc etc add your own............
Your story has a whiff of the unbelievable about it, but if you actually were speeding to save the life of an injured person in your automobile, then the affirmative defense of "necessity" applies, and you shouldn't have had to produce your racing license at all. But still, good on the judge for hucking that sucker out - assuming it's true.
Frankly, it sounds a little like wish-fulfillment internet BS. (Goodness knows I've had times I've wished I could say something like that.) But in the case it's not, have an upvote anyway.
Which sounds good but unfortunately is not foolproof.
A local town, Fort Dodge Iowa, had similar a speed radar that they setup in different locations around town. Made it a civil fine to discourage getting the courts involved.
But one time their were lots of complaints from people getting fines for doing +50 MPH in a downtown 25 MPH zone. Of course the radar company claimed the radars were "always right". But when tested on that street, the radar just happened to double the speed of some larger vehicles like delivery trucks and school buses. Excuse was, "must not have been correctly calibrated".
It was good they did the testing because the school bus driver was going to loose their job if the ticket/fine stayed.
People complained and so did’t get fined due to faulty equipment? So the fine was indeed $0. Challenge the fine, show the fault happens, company pays costs. Simple. Anyone previously fined that did not challenge reimbursed by company + compensation for losses. Good old market forces then ensure companies make sure their shit works. It’s about time drivers started obeying laws instead of crying about how oppressed they are.
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"Of course the radar company claimed the radars were "always right". But when tested on that street, the radar just happened to double the speed of some larger vehicles like delivery trucks and school buses. Excuse was, "must not have been correctly calibrated"."
Yep. Kieren does not seem to understand that allowing the speed camera manufacturer to get a percentage of the revenue is a bit like having the fire department work on commission.
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