back to article That was fast... unlike old iPhones: Apple sued for slowing down mobes

One day after Apple acknowledged that it has been downclocking the CPUs in older iPhones to prevent sudden shutdowns from battery exhaustion, the first lawsuit has arrived. Filed in the Northern District of the State of Illinois on Thursday, the complaint aspires to become a class action for the supposedly thousands of …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "To provide a better experience to customers"

    You made the phone worse in order to IMPROVE the experience? In what alternate reality do you fekheads live to make that in any way plausible?

    "Your car is old & the brakes worn way down, so in order to make it a more pleasant ride we're going to artificially limit the speed to only that of a one legged horse. Enjoy!"

    Uh huh, and now you can go stick your head in a pig.

    1. erikj

      Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

      ...and if I plop down $89 (or whatever) to replace the battery in my iPhone 6, would its CPU still get throttled down just because it's an older model?

      1. Mage Silver badge

        Re: "f I plop down $89 (or whatever"

        Really? About x5 the cost of a battery for my phone.

      2. Max Watson

        Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

        @erikj No it wouldn't because the throttling is only when the battery peak voltage is diminished

        1. erikj

          Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

          Thanks very much. Not sure why I deserved 10 downvotes for an honest question. Oh wait, it's El Reg.

      3. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

        Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

        "...and if I plop down $89 (or whatever) to replace the battery in my iPhone 6, would its CPU still get throttled down just because it's an older model?"

        No. With a new battery the CPU then returns to full speed operation.

        1. Goobertee

          Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

          The explanation I read said the updates were changing the sequencing of the operations, not that the speed of the processor. Rather than have multiple high-energy consuming operations happening (essentially) simultaneously, space them out over time so the peak battery drain is diminished.

          If that doesn't change based on the capacity of the battery, there won't be any speeding up with a new battery.

      4. Tigra 07
        IT Angle

        Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

        Does this mean an older iphone works faster when plugged in to charge or does that not make a difference with an old battery?

        1. fbkevy

          Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

          Can someone with knowledge of this answer this? If a plugged in phone has no technical reason to throttle then Apple has no plausible defense.

    2. ilmari

      Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

      What's preferable, phone unexpectedly shutting down without warning, or phone slowing down to avoid sudden shutdown?

      The big issue is of course that the user wasn't notified in either case, on any brand of phone (androids also suffer from thus when their battery gets old, sudden shutdowns despite having 30% left).

      On the other hand, it's not an easy problem to solve. Unexpected shutdown means unexpected, even if there was an algorithm trying to collect data about the operating state of the cpu and all its peripherals, and recording battery voltages, when unexpected shutdown hits you lose the data. The hardware shuts down to protect both the battery (since they become unstable from operating at low voltage) and the CPU, ram and storage from corrupting data due to insufficient voltage.

      AMD have a "clock stretching" feature in some of their CPUs, if the voltage inside the CPU drops the frequency slows down. It's mostly meant to allow them to operate with lower voltages and save power by not needing as big "safety margin" in voltage. Would be interesting to see something similar in mobile SOCs!

      It's kinda remarkable that battery meters are still so bad at tracking the capabilities of an aging battery. On one hand, it's a kinda neglected area where manufacturers choose the cheapest component. On the other hand, it's a difficult problem! Batteries aged in standard cycle testing behave differently to batteries aged in real life. Batteries in real life age differently depending on how they're used and charged.

      What do I mean by aged differently? As is well known, a battery's voltage sags when you put a load on it. The bigger the load, the more the voltage drops. The amount of drop is, for most part, a linear function of the load. When the battery is new, the sag is so small it makes no difference. The amount of sag can be described as internal resistance. More internal resistance means more sag.

      On a new battery, the internal resistance stays nearly constant regardless if the battery is 100% or 20% full. Towards empty it becomes a bit higher. With an ideally cycled and aged battery, the capacity is lower, and the internal resistance is higher, but the internal resistance is still around the same order of magnitude regardless the battery is full or empty.

      With batteries aged in real life conditions, where the battery might've spent a lot of time at 100%, a lot of time at 0%, a lot of time in heat, etc, the results on internal resistance will be different. The internal resistance might sharply rise as the battery discharges. From the initial situation with a fresh battery having a flat internal resistance curve vs state of charge, to having a inclined straight line describing an increased resistance at empty, to having exponentially increasing resistance towards empty.

      Why does this all matter? Because currently there's no battery meter chip that can take into account anything except the "internal resistance is the same regardless of how full battery is" situation. Most chips don't account for internal resistance at all.

      So from an engineer's perspective, if Apple is actually tracking actual battery performance and managing to make their system adapt to having a smaller and smaller power budget, that's kinda impressive. Makes me glad someone is finally paying attention to adding more sophistication to battery management systems!

      Of course, they could just have put in a battery twice as big and they wouldn't have had issues with shrinking power budget for the phone's "lifetime", and they wouldn't need to consider aging battery.

      1. JohnFen

        Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

        " it's not an easy problem to solve"

        How is it not an easy problem to solve? When the OS notices that the battery is getting too tired, it notifies the use of the problem. The user can then remedy the situation in the manner they prefer or ignore it -- but at least they know.

        Problem solved.

      2. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

        Yes, decent piece of OS functionality from Apple, but a bit silly to keep quiet about it.

    3. Valerion

      Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

      [i]"Your car is old & the brakes worn way down, so in order to make it a more pleasant ride we're going to artificially limit the speed to only that of a one legged horse. Enjoy!"[/i]

      Actually, reducing the allowed speed of cars with warn out brakes is a pretty good idea.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

        No it isn't. Excessively worn brake pads can fail catastrophically in an emergency situation, reducing their stopping power to zero.

        If brakes are worn they should be replaced. Many cars provide a warning light for this purpose, although many of these only operate on one wheel.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

          Yes it is a good idea!!

          How can you say it is not? I guess you misunderstood what the poster you were responding was saying?

          If your car detects worn brake pads, then the maximum speed you are allowed to go should drop for safety, until you get the pads changed. It is an absolutely excellent idea and much better than here is a light you can ignore, which is only attached to one wheel.

          I don't see why you think adding additional safety measures to the car is a bad idea?

          1. Danny 14

            Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

            i would prefer full speed and shorter battery. well, actually i would probably prefer then option of throttling over stealth throttling.

          2. JohnFen

            Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

            "How can you say it is not?"

            It's a terrible idea unless the car also informs you about why it's limiting your speed.

            1. ThomH

              Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

              It's a good idea to limit the processing speed if failing to do so is liable to cause the phone to shut down. Slower overall processing beats no processing.

              It is a terrible idea to do that without telling the consumer and, when the consumer comes to one of your shops to diagnose their slower phone, not tell them that they can just spend X on a new battery, instead recommending that they spend ~10X on a new phone.

              I feel like what Apple did on a technical level is correct; what Apple did in terms of communication and sales is a pretty terrible thing. It's easy to believe that a lot of people will have given Apple money that they would not have, had Apple provided the missing information. Which feels like valid grounds for a lawsuit to me.

          3. Kiwi
            Boffin

            Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

            If your car detects worn brake pads, then the maximum speed you are allowed to go should drop for safety, until you get the pads changed.

            A couple of flaws in your logic - and yes, I agree that measures should be taken for many drivers to prevent them driving.

            However.

            You're more likely to need your brakes in an emergency in town and in traffic than you are on the roads. And you're more likely to need them because someone isn't paying attention/driving to the conditions, eg coming towards a line of stopped traffic at speed or someone going through an intersection where they didn't have the right of way. On the open road you have less such risks (though as your speed is higher if something goes wrong...) So limiting the speed below highway speeds won't necessarily help anyone.

            Also, until the actual active surface is down to very close to nothing, brake pads function just as well as with new pads. It's only when the active surface is no longer covering the full width of the pad that they stop.

            A lot of people who think they know what they're doing would actually try to disable a speed limiter.

            What might work better for some men is a warning that makes diminishing comments about the size of their genetalia or their driving skills or something to shame them into actually doing something about getting their car serviced. Given the intelligence levels of many drivers I'm not sure even that would work.

            And sadly stupid people would drive on motorways etc even if their car was limited to walking speed :( Think of what happens when someone stops or drives slowly on a high-speed section of road. (Perhaps while they're driving slow the car could also flash a big sign talking about the driving being too stupid to get their car serviced or having a small dick or something...)

            But have an upvote - at least you're thinking of possible ways to help keep the roads safer and your idea may help save some lives.

            1. Charles 9

              Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

              "On the open road you have less such risks (though as your speed is higher if something goes wrong...) So limiting the speed below highway speeds won't necessarily help anyone."

              Thing is, when you need it on the highway (such as a median-jumper or something falling onto the road), YOU NEED IT!

        2. Kiwi
          Boffin

          Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

          If brakes are worn they should be replaced. Many cars provide a warning light for this purpose, although many of these only operate on one wheel.

          One wheel should be fine so long as it's one that has a higher level of wear (so say 2 of your pads aren't already badly worn when the light comes on).

          I've seen a system which had a wire embedded in the pads, and as they wore they'd eventually break the wire, which would cause the warning light to come on. It's a fairly simple design.

    4. J. R. Hartley

      Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

      Right in the gulliver.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

      This is why you don't send in an engineer to do a designer's job. They throttled the processor speed in order to prevent the phones from shutting down even with a full battery. It's far worse for the user experience if your phone dies without warning than if its a tad slower. Think like a user not a benchmarker. Clock speeds don't matter when the phone is off.

      That said, I think they should have let everyone know about the issue and offer a battery replacement at a reduced rate.

  2. Pomgolian
    Flame

    That probably explains..

    ..why my five year old iPad is like a snail on the tortoise's back.

    And another thing: If the battery degradation is so great as to warrant this, why not fit a bigger fecking battery to start with, rather than trying to make every new model even slimmer than the one before. I for one wouldn't mind an extra 5mm thickness in exchange for a battery that pumps out the power for 5 years. It's a premium product and should be bloody well engineered like one.

    1. Field Commander A9

      Re: That probably explains..

      Because your daughter wants a even shinier new iPhone every year and needed a excuse to retire the old one.

    2. Baldrickk

      Re: That probably explains..

      Why not a battery that is user replaceable?

      Oh wait, it's Apple.

      form over function.

      1. silks

        Re: That probably explains..

        Samsung's phones also have batteries that aren't user replaceable, it's not just Apple.

        1. Jimboom

          Re: That probably explains..

          Samsungs batteries were originally replaceable. All the way up until the S5, then they followed Apples example.

          I for one am saddened by this as if a phone is misbehaving it is a lot more satisfiying to remove the battery then it is to push a button.

        2. Tabor

          Re: That probably explains..

          Apple does it, Samsung does it, and a lot of other “premium” smartphones. But I do think Apple was the first, and the rest followed. See also : headphone jack, laptops.

          A few millimeters thicker and they can make it user replaceable... weight wouldn’t change much. but then the smartphone market would probably collapse.

        3. Peter Mount

          Re: That probably explains..

          Yes these days they are, but my trusty Note 3 has a replaceable battery & even now I've yet to replace it (the battery).

          1. PiltdownMan

            Re: That probably explains..

            Yep, bought my Note 3 on release day 4 plus years ago, battery has just died after 4yrs and 2 months. £8 for new battery, fitted in seconds.

            Phone still going strong in my son's hands now. I've stupidly bought a Galaxy S8+ (Nice, realy nice phone, although I dropped and SMASHED (not cracked) screen within two months. It's so easy to drop, it's in a full wrap-around rubberised case now. SAFE!

            I think I'm gonna get a simple feature phone next time. I'll be happy with just calls, texts & email on my mobile. I prefer a 7" tablet for everything else. (I'm an old git, as advised by my User-Name.)

            RESULT!

          2. Charles 9

            Re: That probably explains..

            "Yes these days they are, but my trusty Note 3 has a replaceable battery & even now I've yet to replace it (the battery)."

            The Note 4 was the last Note to have a user-replaceable battery (I use them for that very reason). The Note 5 and S6 were the first high-end models to seal the battery.

        4. Sgt_Oddball

          Re: That probably explains..

          Sony too, but at least when Sony did it, they justified this by making the phone waterproof.

          1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

            Re: That probably explains..

            Like the iPhone 7, 7+, 8, 8+ and X?

            1. Sgt_Oddball

              Re: That probably explains..

              If this was in response to the waterproof note, Sony introduced it with the Xperia Z. Release February 2013, vs iPhone 7 et al released 3 and half years later. But yes by all means they've made them water resistant now.

          2. Kiwi
            Boffin

            Re: That probably explains..

            Sony too, but at least when Sony did it, they justified this by making the phone waterproof.

            That's a poor justification (for any brand, not attacking Sony here!).

            I've had waterproof toys with replaceable batteries since I was a kid back in the 70s. If 1970s technology could take metal contacts through plastic or rubber (or wires for that matter) and also seal the battery compartment so the batteries should stay dry and if some tot hadn't closed the battery door properly then the insides would still stay dry, I'd think by today we could still do the same just as cheaply and easily.

            You can have a feature of a "replaceable rear cover" again which the user can remove to have a battery underneath, and the battery is in a totally sealed bay. With the tiniest bit of thought you can work out how to stop water seepage reaching and shorting the battery contacts.

            It's bloody simple decades-old technology that requires only seconds of thought to do. Phone companies saying "it's so we can waterproof our phones" are either showing that they lack this basic engineering skill or they're showing that they'd rather lie to the customer than give them a chance to change out batteries if they want.

            (Though why you'd want to take your phone swimming with you I'll never understand. NOW GET ORF MY LORRRRN!)

          3. Paul

            Re: That probably explains..

            Problem with sealed-in battery with water-proofed device is it's expensive and difficult to replace the battery and you usually lose the water-proofing too.

            1. Kiwi

              Re: That probably explains..

              Problem with sealed-in battery with water-proofed device is it's expensive and difficult to replace the battery and you usually lose the water-proofing too.

              Doesn't have to be that way. We've had the ability to waterproof small devices with child-replaceable battery compartments for some 40 years. Maybe more.

            2. Charles 9

              Re: That probably explains..

              What about the S5? It's waterproof AND has a removable cover.

        5. unwarranted triumphalism

          Re: That probably explains..

          It's still Apple's fault though.

        6. JohnFen

          Re: That probably explains..

          "Samsung's phones also have batteries that aren't user replaceable, it's not just Apple."

          ]Yep, and it's truly awful design decision no matter what manufacturer does it.

        7. Sleep deprived

          Re: That probably explains..

          My girlfriend's J1 from Samsung has a replaceable battery...

      2. MrXavia

        Re: That probably explains..

        Make it easier to replace the batteries and then have a message saying battery has problems, please replace it as soon as possible and the phone will run slow until you have done this..

        Not hard to do....

      3. Lusty

        Re: That probably explains..

        "Why not a battery that is user replaceable?"

        Why would that make any difference? Apple would charge the exact same amount for a user replaceable battery as they do for the replacement service (which only takes an hour in store). All that would change is your phone would have a removable back, which as I recall would regularly break on most phone models leading to your battery ending up on the floor.

        1. JLV

          Re: That probably explains..

          Or, you could do like other Apple owners that have half a brain, find a trustworthy independent repair shop and get it serviced there. Faster, cheaper, no lineups.*

          Plus, there is a hint in user replaceable

          Funny how the world seems divided into Apple haters-no-matter-what and clueless fanbois who never hold them accountable for anything.

          * one positive with Apple's market share and model range is that I've always been quoted much lower prices on iOS screen replacements than for other brands.

        2. T. F. M. Reader

          Re: That probably explains..

          removable back, which as I recall would regularly break on most phone models leading to your battery ending up on the floor.

          Yes, until about 10 months ago I had a phone with a replaceable battery under a flimsy-looking thin plastic back. The phone fell quite a few times, the plastic, and sometimes the battery, separated from the rest of the phone and ended up on the floor, but never broke. Putting the battery and the plastic back into their proper places resulted in perfectly working phone in 100% of the cases.

          replacement service (which only takes an hour in store)

          You don't value an hour of your time very highly, do you? The advantage of that flimsy easily separable plastic back was that walking into any odd mobile phone shop wherever you happen to be in the street, swapping the battery, paying (only for the battery, no labour) by cash or card, and walking out of the shop with a perfectly working phone took all of a couple of minutes. That's as opposed to a special trip to a lab or service center + "1 hour" + paying for the technician doing his job.

      4. macjules

        Re: That probably explains..

        It IS user replaceable, just that you have to be a qualified engineer user to do it.

    3. Max Watson

      Re: That probably explains..

      A bigger battery won't overcome the technical degradation of lithium ion batteries. Also no one wants a heavier phone than needed

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: That probably explains..

        "A bigger battery won't overcome the technical degradation of lithium ion batteries. Also no one wants a heavier phone than needed"

        The Sony Z5C is contemporaneous with the iPhone 6s, and has a similar size screen. The weights are the same within a few grammes. The Sony has a battery 50% larger than that in the iPhone.

        Of course, putting in a bigger battery will, other things being equal, reduce the rate of wear and give a bigger operating margin.

        Would you like to reconsider your post?

      2. BinkyTheMagicPaperclip Silver badge

        Re: That probably explains..

        I don't much care about battery weight, and the last phone I had with a removable battery was amazing - it's a feature I really miss.

        Given Blackberry have discontinued monthly security updates for the Priv, I may have to look at a Moto phone to stick a Moto keyboard mod on, hopefully with a better battery too.

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