back to article Space.. the fi, er, New Frontiers: NASA to hurl space robot at duck comet – or Saturn moon

NASA is drawing up plans to send a robot out into space to either drill into the comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko – or checking out Titan, Saturn’s largest moon. The two proposed missions are still in their very early design phases, and were chosen from 12 ideas submitted in April to the American space agency’s New Frontiers …

  1. Winkypop Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Up with this kind of thing

    Imagine HD video of Titan.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Up with this kind of thing

      A quick google will find you plenty of HD videos of tight 'uns. Some will probably be quite imaginative too.

  2. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      It's not NASA doing that tracking, its NORAD. NASA lacks the right kind of radar installations to do the job properly. But yes, it is still a (military) government agency, and they seem to be doing quite a lot more Santa-tracking these days than I remember from years gone by. Probably they get really bored during that long arctic winter...

      1. Solarflare

        The old story that I heard (not sure on its authenticity) is that the NORAD santa tracking started due to a misprint on a poster. Something along the lines of a company (I believe it was a large American department store) had a phone number that kids could call and be given updates on where Santa was, unfortunately when they printed posters to advertise this they put the number for NORAD rather than the actual number which was very similar. Naturally, it was a popular service and NORAD were very confused by being contacted by small children asking about Santa's whereabouts. As a result they then started doing it themselves and with the advent of the internet have made a few updates to their santa tracking website.

        Like I say, I'm not sure if it is true, but it is a nice story regardless.

        1. Handle123456

          Whatever the original reason was it's cute. It makes the organization more humane.

  3. Long John Brass
    Mushroom

    Atomic tank

    Given the much colder temps, wouldn't an RTG be much more efficient on Titan than on Mars?

    If you could stop the damned thing melting its way though the ground.

    The CPU's could be over-clocked as well :)

    1. Degenerate Scumbag

      Re: Atomic tank

      Your comment triggered my Autistic curiosity to analyse this. I think the answer is no.

      The thermocouples in an RTG generate electricity from a temperature differential, which is presumably what led you to this idea. Bigger temperature gradient = more power.

      However, the radioisotope in the generator is not inherently "hot". It doesn't have a particular temperature, it just generates heat from radioactive decay at a rate that correlates with the half-life. If that heat is not transferred away somewhere, the temperature increases, but an RTG works by utilising that heat.

      I would expect the temperature of the isotope in an RTG to find an equilibrium at some margin above the ambient temperature of the environment it is in, the point at which the thermocouple is removing the same amount of energy (as electricity) as the radioactive decay is generating (as heat).

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: Atomic tank

        I had a chat with an engineer at Teledyne about burying an RTG on the moon for better heat dissipation and he told me that it would work better than trying to radiate heat from the cold side into space. It's possible to use Carnot heat equations up to a certain point and you are probably correct that since the Pu isn't an infinite heat source, the curve would flatten out at some point.

        Now I need to find the book and papers on RTGs and have another look.

        The biggest problem is sourcing the Pu isotope. The reactor that was used to generate it was decommissioned and I believe restarted a couple of years ago, but the process is very slow and the separation moderately tedious. No, you can't make bombs out of the isotope used for RTGs. The US bought up all of the stock that Russia had and that's all been used.

  4. Gene Cash Silver badge
    Unhappy

    "cost cap of about $850 million (~£635,570,500)"

    Hello, is anyone familiar with the concept of significant figures...?

    1. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

      Re: "cost cap of about $850 million (~£635,570,500)"

      The problem there wasn't the significant figures. It was the insignificant ones.

  5. Roj Blake Silver badge

    Europa

    Rather than going to Titan, they should get a submarine to melt its way through Europa's icy crust and have a look at what's underneath.

    1. Gordon 10

      Re: Europa

      I think there are plans for that anyway....

      ....Here ya although it looks like the Orange One is doing his best to torpedo it (pun intended)

      https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/jpym5x/alien-hunting-sub-europa-artemis-stone-aerospace

      1. Scoured Frisbee

        Re: Europa

        Surely drilling Europa should be the domain of the ESA?

      2. Handle123456

        Re: Europa

        The orange one? Nope, it was the when-convenient-absolutely-black one that torpedoed space exploration and most of actual science. But then what use would a community organizer have for real science?

    2. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: Europa

      That's being developed. I've seen some TV shows that featured various designs of the equipment that could be used being developed at different universities. I expect that it will be a while before somebody can assemble a big enough radioactive source that will provide enough heat to melt all the way through the ice cap in a reasonable amount of time. We might need to send a couple of earlier probes to get some soundings on just how thick the ice really is and the best area to work from. Will working through one of the assumed "cracks" be more dangerous than starting from an uncracked region?

    3. jmarked

      Re: Europa

      Yeah, still so much to discover on Earth.

  6. Pen-y-gors

    Outsourcing?

    Given that the Indians managed to send an orbiter to Mars for $74 million (I'm still seriously impressed by that), maybe NASA should consider outsourcing the projects, then they could afford both of them, and probably have enough left over to establish a call-centre on Phobos.

  7. 0laf

    Titan FTW

    Would a balloon or dirigible not be a better option for Titan? Use an RTG to heat the 'air' to keep the thing going for a long time rather than relying on stored helium. the atmosphere is methane but there isn't any O2 to make it burn and gas laws are pretty universal.

    I'd love to see a lander on Europa or another ocean moon too. Drilling down to the water probably isn't feasible but checking the surface for organic debris that might have been ejected would be cool.

  8. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

    Oh, FFS, fund them both. And several more.

    1. paulej72

      Cancel SLS and we can do both easily.

    2. Gordon 10

      Couldnt they just get Elon to re-direct the trajectory of his Roadster?

      http://www.thedrive.com/news/16634/elon-musk-is-launching-his-roadster-into-space-because-why-not

      *engage Autopilot*

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        You are, of course, assuming that the F9H with the roadster can make it as far as Mars to start with. It will be amazing of they completely miss the Atlantic Ocean on their first try.

    3. MachDiamond Silver badge

      I'd love to see far less military wastage and more space probes. If the world could move away from the oil nipple, we could let places like the middle east rot instead of handing them our hard earned cash. Those retirement villas on the moon need to be started right away so I have a chance at moving there before I can't take the acceleration anymore.

      1. Handle123456

        Moving away from the oil nipple will cause wars as the Middle east looses its source of income and fights to grab a new one while it still can. Too much cash was already sent there.

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