Windows Store nixed Google Chrome 'app' hours after it went live Microsoft has bounced a Google Chrome Installer out of its Windows Store, just hours after making it available for download. Google's "Chrome" app was a minimalist offering – merely sending the user to the official Chrome download app. In a statement to the press, Microsoft said it had removed the Chrome Installer because it …
Every day the likes of Google and Microsoft push me further and further out of their domain. I stopped using Google search 2 years ago, Chrome long before that; I stopped using Hotmail 3 years ago, Office long before that. I already have OpenSUSE on dual-boot, it feels like it won't be long before I take the "dual" out of that, or at least push Windows to the side, just use it for games that won't run on Linux.
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But the story isn't really about Windows.
Its about:
1. The windows store doing the right thing (by its users) and junking third-party installers for big-name software. They are almost always going to lead to bad things.
2. The windows store doing the wrong thing (by its users) and blocking alternatives to MS products.
So its actually an ecosystem story and in that context, talk of ditching increasingly closed ecosystems is valid comment. In fact, I'm not sure how you can comment on app store policy without commenting on ecosystem issues.
And in the spirit of sharing, opensuse here (including steam gaming), though with xfce since kde stability has gone to the dogs on my particular kit. BSD (pfsense) on the firewall and mail servers.
The point Geniality is making is perfectly valid and relevant. There are many of us who use both, me included. Until Windows 10, I didn't really care which I was using, so long as it had the tools I needed, the only time I rebooted between them was when the tool was in one and not the other. Since Windows 10, my laptop no longer dual boots and I do as much as I can in Linux on the PC, because it doesn't interrupt me with forced updates and reboots.
This is another decision, in the long line of recent MS decisions that are pushing users away, the users who are most easily pushed away are those with somewhere else to go (Linux, MacOS, the BSDs).
By not allowing Chrome in the Windows Store, it results in a worse end-user experience - we have to keep the Chrome updater instead of it updating through the Store. You must have heard us Linux fanboys going on about "one click updates" to update everything (apps & OS) - this is MS's opportunity to have the same seamless updating by using the Windows Store + Windows Update, and they're throwing it away over a rendering engine.
The Windows Store is also their opportunity to reprogram users into getting software from the Store, instead of all the unverifiable websites out there hosting who knows what. That can only improve Windows security.
A rendering engine is not worth the negativity it'll bring to the Windows Store.
Since Windows 10, my laptop no longer dual boots and I do as much as I can in Linux on the PC, because it doesn't interrupt me with forced updates and reboots.
Windows 10 has never interrupted me with anything like that. Sure, it tells me there's an update, and offers to reboot, but it has *never* forced the issue. (That said, at work I use FreeBSD...)
"Windows 10 has never interrupted me with anything like that."
You're lucky. Despite telling Windows not to, it consistently reboots to install updates whenever it damned well feels like it.
The fall creator's update was extra annoying, because it took a full hour to complete the update. What did I get in exchange for being unable to work for an hour? Not a damned thing.
Windows 10 is one of the most annoying and infuriating OSes that I've used.
you are aware, are you not, that you can tell W10 when to install updates? Including when you are not there to be interrupted
The "Choose When Updates Are Installed" option lets you select between which Semi-Annual update channel to which you wish to subscribe. It does not, however, let you specify a time.
There is no option in my W10 that allows me to tell it when to install updates such as the 3AM default on earlier versions of the OS. The only thing you can do is give it a time window -- except that you can't give it an active time range of more than 18 hours, give it a split time window, or tell it which days -- and even then it still puts popups on the screen over the top of what you are working on DURING the "active hours".
So, when I am watching a training video and Windows decides to reboot without visible warning (because the video is playing full screen) or when it reboots while I run grab a cup of coffee when I'm working later into the evening -- I'm f*cked.
you can only choose update times if you are using enterprise AND wsus. Even then some updates can ignore the update time gpo.
you also only get 2 years on feature updates. i have 1603 that ive not updated as im curious to see what will actually happen ccome march (it isnt internet connected at the moment)
From the article:
"Apps that browse the web must use the appropriate HTML and JavaScript engines provided by the Windows Platform"
and (quoted from post I reply to)
"This is another decision, in the long line of recent MS decisions that are pushing users away, the users who are most easily pushed away are those with somewhere else to go"
The first quote (from the article) shows that "The Store" CRapps are [out of the box] *AUTOMATICALLY* *HOBBLED* by being forced into using a potentially *INFERIOR* system of HTML and JavaScript rendering/execution, with NO hope of providing your own tweeks and benefits [and filtering i.e. anti-spyware anti-malware] such that NOBODY can effectively compete with that "Edging" browser. So Chrome is _ALREADY_ on their "excrement list". But they wanted a presence in "The Store", so they made an INSTALLER instead. I totally get that.
And the 2nd quote is a BRILLIANT assessment of where Micro-shaft currently is.
I have to wonder if Micro-shaft is *ALSO* *HOBBLING* "The Store" UWP CRapps by (essentially) forcing them into having 2D FLATSO FLUGLY interfaces.
Some recent experiences between me Micro-shaft have shown me that the rank/file people are REALLY TRYING to make customers happy and be reasonable. But their overall infrastructure AND bureaucracy, *ESPECIALLY* dealing with "The Store", has shown me that it's a *COMPLETE* *CLUSTER* *BLANK*. What used to work (let's say renew MSDN), but now *MUST* be done through "The Store", has broken, in a bad way. And though good people at low levels do their best to try and "fix it", and I most definitely appreciate their efforts, they are up against an INTERNAL BUREAUCRACY that is as OPPRESSIVE as [here comes the politics] a SOCIALIST DICTATORSHIP.
But I've commented on that MANY times before, and I've experienced the effects of it first-hand. I've interpreted the results of "decisions from on high" within their corporation, and seen how a small number of "activist types" are driving the ship towards the rocks. I've seen (and then pointed out) specific people who are KNOWN to be responsible, none of whom seem to work for the company any more. And yet... STILL, the problems remain, and Micro-shaft CONTINUES to go down the SAME road to HELL as they were when they horked-up "The Metro", Win-10-nic, GWX, UWP, and "The Store".
Yes... those who HAVE an alternative already are moving towards it. I pity those who do NOT.
/me runs FreeBSD most of the time, with Linux and 'some windows' thrown in their, though I _still_ keep my MSDN subscription alive... I guess I'm nostalgically hopeful or something.
Dammnit Bob. By the time I managed to filter out the ranting, bad grammar, and RANDOM use OF capital LETTERS, you almost managed to make a good point.
But then you wrote "SOCIALIST DICTATORSHIP" and your Fox-and-Friends alarm went off.
Please explain what it worse about the (rare) Socialist dictatorships, compared to the much more common religious or capitalist-anarchic dictatorships?
Quoting Alex Wong:
"There's nothing inherent about communism or socialism that leads to being a dictatorship. There are democracies that are communist like Nepal, there are oligarchies like China and you have social democracies like Sweden, or flawed democracies like Venezuela. In comparison, look at capitalist countries. You have a brutal monarchy in Saudi Arabia that leads the world in human rights abuses, failed states like Afghanistan or Somalia, flawed democracies like Italy or one party states like Singapore, South Korea and Japan."
"This is another decision, in the long line of recent MS decisions that are pushing users away, the users who are most easily pushed away are those with somewhere else to go (Linux, MacOS, the BSDs)".
Exactly. MS know they cannot "lock us in" as we have the knowledge to "circumvent" their attempted lock-ins. Therefore we aren't worth bothering with. For every one of us there are 10 users who don't know what Linux is or Android. THAT is the kind of user MS wants.
"just use it for games that won't run on Linux."
So you run Windows then. For the applications you want that aren't easily accessible on Linux. Yet to meet a game I can't run on Linux, but you often need a fully patched version on Windows, which often makes the whole exercise redundant.
Look, I'm happy to get into "one true Scotsman/OS/text editor" arguments over the appropriate beverage, but in practice purists are down right frustrating. Most ideologues are also happy to be quite contrary when it comes to things they like/want. Like vegan tree huggers that don't see a problem with taking ecstasy or coke, but will lecture you on the environmental perils of coffee drinking and chocolate consumption.
You use the tools appropriate for the job at hand. Depending on where you work, that may well mean that you use tools that other people have sourced which you wouldn't touch with a bargepole. I'd love to say to users "oh, you wrote a 400 page document in Word and now it's corrupted? Well, that'll learn ya, use LaTex next time, now off you fuck" but that's not very helpful.
"I stopped using Google search 2 years ago"
And replaced it with what? I'm serious here, I'll use anom methods of searching, but I find that most results are either from Google one way or another, or are just shit. For specific instances you don't need it, but then you're searching a specific database like PubMed. Which may be using Google products on it's back end, but you don't really know.
"I stopped using Hotmail 3 years ago"
I'd love to. In fact the only use I have for Hotmail is that it's part of my MS Live ID thingy, and that's required for me to be certified by MS. If I'm not certified and I bugger up something on a MS system, my indemnity insurance won't cover me, and that will cost me my savings, business and probably my house.
"Office long before that"
So no jobs in corporate then? Fair enough.
I could also refuse to work on any MS systems. Let me know how many "pure" linux installations are out there in the real world that are not part of a tech/research outfit. Most of my clients are from non-tech sectors, and if they are really lucky they will have the choice of two business applications, both of which have the user facing stuff run on Windows. Sometimes there's only one vendor, also Windows only.
I'm not a fan of MS business practices, and while I own Google stock, they are pretty shady too. But they are market leaders whose products are used by billions, so you you can't declare you're not going to use them and still find work in operations.
I <3 linux too, for almost any dedicated system, or for fiddling in the software equivalent of "no user serviceable parts".
As an example, I build GPU miners. They are about as solid in linux or windows, although you can crank a little more out of the cards in linux. However, the linux tools for bios editing (OSS) and overclocking are rubbish, so it would be impossible to work out a cards best performance in linux alone, and pretty hairy to flash those settings to BIOS for each test. But benchmark them in Windows then flash them in Windows and drop them into a linux box and they'll be just fine.
Use the right tools for the job.
"Look, I'm happy to get into "one true Scotsman/OS/text editor" arguments over the appropriate beverage, but in practice purists are down right frustrating."
But, er, no-one claimed to be a purist. Both the OP and the person responding to him talked about using both Linux and Windows, but attempting to minimize their use of Google and Microsoft software as much as seemed practical to them. So...not purists, then. Sort of the opposite of purists, really. So...who are you arguing with, here, exactly?
Nope - because it wasn't Chrome anyway.
It was a link to the Chrome installer - which you then had to run to install Chrome itself.
So, it still wouldn't have been installable on Windows 10 S.
And, this isn't exactly Microsoft's fault - Google have shown they're willing to play by the rules to get Chrome into iOS, so they can do the same for Windows 10.
People always complain about Windows and how on older PC's it runs slow - Windows 10 S is Microsoft's answer to that by trying to ensure that applications installed do pass basic quality assurance. And then people complain because Microsoft is stopping them doing what they used to do previously (which cause the problems in the first place).
Oh - and let's not forget, anyone reading, and commenting in, The Reg are almost definitely going to consider themselves more of a 'Power User' than the majority of the population so lets take comments here with a pinch of salt on how they'd affect 'everyday users'.
"Google have shown they're willing to play by the rules to get Chrome into iOS, so they can do the same for Windows 10."
That's the thing it is a game and a stupid one at that. You have Chrome by name but it's a completely different offering on IOS. So you can create a PWA with service workers and although Safari on IOS won't work with it (yet - although Safari on MAC OS will) you could just fire up Chrome, right? Wrong as Chrome on IOS isn't allowed to use service workers either and has to use a different rendering engine.
Do we really want this extended to every platform each with their own renderers, quirks and features? Preferably not.
Apple can get away with it because IOS is so big, Microsoft can't because Windows Mobile is non existent and the Windows store not required.
@Stephen, whilst you are correct to say that the installer won't work on Windows S, I don't think that is really the point. I'm sure the brains at Google could figure out how to build the same code base for multiple platform targets if that was the only barrier.
The real barrier to choice is the requirement to be a wrapper around Edge. This isn't a technical constraint, but a commercial one. Do you want to associate your brand with the capabilities and performance or otherwise of the Edge rendering engine? Whilst it is an OK browser in my view (and certainly the best they have managed to produce to date), there already exists a perfectly acceptable Edge browser for those who want to experience that rendering engine. There is no need for a second one with a different logo.
They made a choice to wrapper Safari on iOS. I believe that was a mistake. They should have written a blog post on why they cannot produce a real Chrome browser on iOS due to Apple policies, express regret, and express hope that they may one day permit the world's best* browser to be enjoyed by those choosing the iOS platforms for tablet and phones. As it stands, they are second class citizens. Even though the same rendering engine is used, performance can never equal Safari because of differences in the threading models between the built in Safari browser and what apps can do. So your page will now render with the safari quirks, not implement a bunch of standards that all the others (including Edge) do, but do so even slower than the one that comes preinstalled. Where do I sign up? I'm guessing they did it to drive Chrome on MacOS. If there's a few more generations of ho hum same same notched fashion accessories and market share drops to the fanboys only, watch Google drop support for it.
*Yeah I know
"The real barrier to choice is the requirement to be a wrapper around Edge. This isn't a technical constraint, but a commercial one. Do you want to associate your brand with the capabilities and performance or otherwise of the Edge rendering engine? Whilst it is an OK browser in my view (and certainly the best they have managed to produce to date), there already exists a perfectly acceptable Edge browser for those who want to experience that rendering engine. There is no need for a second one with a different logo."
As I said though, people reading The Reg are more likely 'Pro' users at least. The vast majority of people on the street really don't care about rendering engines within web browsers. What they want is a web browser that syncs between their mobile, their tablet and their computer with a reassuring icon between all device types. If I bookmark something on my tablet, I want it to be there on my PC when I load up the browser. There are ALSO a lot of users who see the 'Chrome' icon now as 'The Internet'. I remember trying to explain to my step mother a few years back when she got an iPad that she had to tap the Safari icon to browse the web and in the end just gave up and installed Chrome because she could never see the icon.
A 'wrapper' for Edge that skins it to look like Chrome and syncs with your Google account would be EXACTLY what a lot of users would want.
You seem to think it is Google's job to make iOS easier to use. There are plenty of tablets out there which can run chrome/Firefox/opera/Vivaldi/palemoon and would happily run Edge or Safari if the authors of those browsers elected to publish them. I too have some family who .... struggle .... with things technical, but even they learn very quickly after you show them the "internet button". Of all the .... limitations .... in Safari, for me, the icon is way down on the list. In fact, I will admit to liking that icon. If they need to see the Chrome icon, any of those tablets will suffice.
The rendering engine isn't some abstract concept. It is the biggest difference between ie6 and modern Chrome. Poor* rendering engines directly hurt your experience. They may be slow, use more memory, draw incorrectly (or fail to draw), and fail to protect you from threats by ignoring CSP rules. It directly influences whether you think your tablet is too old which costs you real money if you buy a new one.
*and add to that poorly maintained
And I have to wonder why people get so sensitive over an operating system. Linux is an alternative to it, so why not bring it up in the context of a negative story about Windows? As the article mentions, the Windows Store is filled with scam apps, it's not my fault Microsoft (or Google) can't fix their own storefront.
I didn't claim any high ground, I just claimed it as an alternative. Hell, I even pointed out that I'd still use Windows, because it's a tool that has advantages over its competition. This is what I don't get, two gigantic corporations are having a pissing contest over apps and people are getting defensive because someone points out there's an alternative.
Had Douglas Adams been alive today he might have re used his line thus :-
"who cursed and swore at him from a moral high ground that Linux users alone seem able to inhabit"
But then, the late Mr Adams was a long time Apple fan....although it never stopped him being critical when he thought they'd made a poor choice...
"Linux is an alternative to it, so why not bring it up in the context of a negative story about Windows?"
Because it's completely irrelevant to a story about Google Chrome being rejected from a single distribution channel to an operating system that is not Linux? Or because, in many cases, the sparse ecosystem of 2nd-rate Open Source apps means Linux actually isn't an alternative (go ask Munich how effective their Linux switchout was), and so endlessly hunting for excuses to bring it up is a complete waste of time?
Also, Windows users aren't actually sensitive about their OS - every Windows story is accompanied by plenty of people pointing out the flaws with the operating system and bitching about Microsoft. That doesn't mean they should have to put up with a constant deluge of pointless 'Personally, I use Linux and now I sit atop a pile of smug self-satisfaction about it, assured that merely installing a 15-month old copy of Mint has made me a computing God' posts. Who's it going to convince? I'm not likely to nip over to my bosses' office and tell him we need to re-image 15000 PCs with Linux just because a 17-year old found he could browser porn on Ubuntu just as effectively as on Windows.
A negative Linux story, on the other hand, is invariably the site of much whataboutism ("Well, maybe this kernel bug means that there's a raging escalation of privilege exploit in the wild, but what about when Windows 98 did something similar 19 years ago?") and denial. Plus, there's that insecure need to constantly inject it into every conversation regardless of whether it's remotely relevant, like a 17 year old who's just read The Communist Manifesto and now needs to make it clear he's a Marxist every time you ask him what he wants for dinner.
So really, which group is oversensitive about its favourite OS?
Plus you have to understand that Stupid Users WAY outnumber smart users and THEIR dollars are what tell Microsoft's board what to do given Stupid Users also outSPEND smart users by their sheer numbers. This means Microsoft has to cater to Stupid Users who wouldn't know an worm from a clickbait AND can take other people with them when things go wrong. And us Smart Users have to realize we live in a world surrounded by Stupid (and not just Stupid, Cockbill Street Stupid who refuse who acknowledge their own stupidity).
And for those who say Linux is all sunshine, remind them of Slapper.
"one day maybe someone will post a story about Microsoft that wont get usurped by the penguins"
Micro-shaft would have to roll back their business strategies and internal policies NEARLY TWO DECADES for *THAT* to happen. Their current stupidity began when Ballmer took the helm, with the ".Not" initiative [which eventually morphed into the 'windows logon' that Win-10-nic practically STRONGARMS you into], which was originally called "Passport", and all of the big "dot com" people laughed hysterically at [as in 'why must we pay a toll to Micro-shaft for what we do already for FREE???'].
SO... as long as Micro-shaft continues to do STUPID THINGS and make STUPID POLICIES, I'm sure that the ratio of unfavorable to favorable articles will continue to be a value significantly greater than one. And "the penguins" (I guess I'm one too, even though I'm running FBSD for day-to-day things) will continue to point out, as a public service, the ~superior~ choice of alternative (and free) OS known as Linux.
RE: And "the penguins" [...] will continue to point out, as a public service, [Their superiority]
And thus, given the chance and sufficient motivation, I will continue to troll Linux articles and attempt to derail the following comments, highlighting the admittedly exaggerated faults in the feathery community of short legged, useless winged, waddlers. It's childish but, given the level of irritating provocation from such as yourself, it's also supremely satisfying. Back to your guano stained icy colonies with you!
Honestly....Microshaft, Micro$oft, Slurp, yada yada yada yada
Even if good points are made, puerile and childish name calling detracts from it to the point a lot of people don't even bother to read what's said.
The points that both sides forget all too often are that it's about choice. Yes, really - your average user will choose to buy a computer from the likes of PC World, Dell, HP or even Tesco or Sainsbury's and because it ships with a copy of Windows installed (and it's what they most likely use at work) and it'll run the Office package they mostly know (also from work) and the games they or their kids want to play then they are happy with their choice.
They will never open a machine up, drill down into the guts of either the hardware of software. They don't want to.
The same people happily use Facebook, Google and any other number of sites that gobble up their personal information so the stuff that Windows 10 sends back is of less than no concern to them.
Having had to dig too many people out of the shit in the past because they had hookie copies of XP that wouldn't update, personally, I believe no home versions of Windows should prevent users from (or rather allow users not to) applying updates. Ever. Rather the occasionally borked machine than one with more holes than your average sieve.
Likewise you may be more computer savvy (most certainly if you comment here) and your choice may be one of the many many versions of Linux out there and you really probably enjoy tweaking and playng.
I run both for whatever tools or applications suit my need but I don't feel the need to shout about either or cuss the choices of others.
Likewise, I dont feel the need to constantly complain about things that I last experienced 10 or even 20 years ago - a lot of MS software has moved on. Try some of it. Hell I even got downvoted recently for pointing out that LIbre Office 5.03 (I think it was) had included the option of allowing you to have a ribbon just like MS introduced with Office over a decade ago and to which still dozens of commentards here foam at the mouth about....look around you people....office workers and home users have adapted to it and just get on with it. Hell it's worth saying twice - it's been over a decade...it's not going away.
Seriously....for people that espouse the benefits of the right to choose, some of you are very anti-choice when it doesn't match your personal ideal or idea of the "right" choice!
I've said it before - both sides of this fence need to grow up some. It's an OS not a religion.
Yeah, about that ribbon thing: It's good to see Libre Office is carrying on the Microsoft tradition by making me foam at the mouth. If anyone is tempted to try it out, I can only say beware. I turned it on, then I set one of the alternative display options other than the default, which resulted in a cut-down ribbon with fewer settings. I then discovered there was no way to turn it off again. Nothing on the ribbon itself and the standard menu's became disabled, so no way back to the real world. Well, damn!
I'm sure there is probably a work around I was unable to discover but...watch out! In the end I just reset the configuration, which lost all my additions and settings. BAH! I should probably mention it on the Libre Office site but I'm still foaming.
personally, I believe no home versions of Windows should prevent users from (or rather allow users not to) applying updates.
You seem to share the same confusion as Microsoft over the meaning of the word "ownership." The owner of the computer gets to decide when and whether updates happen. If you're not going to let me (as a hypothetical home user) pick and choose, you've got some 'splaining to do as to why you think you now own my PC even though I can show you the sales receipt proving it's mine. That's the long and short of it right there, and the bit about "otherwise it will be full of security holes" doesn't even enter into it. The ends (having an ostensibly "safe" computer) do not justify the means.
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