Erase 2017 from your brain. Face ID never happened. The Notch is an illusion Apple is said to have made a virtue out of a necessity with its iPhone X – creating the notorious "Notch" to house a sophisticated facial-recognition system, Face ID. Arch-rival Samsung didn't do away its fingerprint sensor, but perched it awkwardly on the rear of its Galaxy S and Note models. Both companies had made these …
without a front-facing camera. Unless you video call or take selfies, not sure what the need is.
I've had at least one Samsung which had a feature whereby it would suppress the screen lock timeout if it thought you were still looking at the phone, and I'm assuming it used to front-facing camera for that. No ID of specific faces, just knowing that the phone was being looked at.
I rarely if ever use my front-facing camera, but I would never try and sell a phone without one.
Previous responses to the same design intent of maximising the screen area include:
Mi Mix. Camera placed on lower bezel.
LG V20. Discrete half-width display placed alongside front-facing camera - don't know if it's 'always on' for showing the time etc, but possible power savings if so.
Essential Phone. Notch in screen, smaller than iPhone X's.
PS, yeah, I read of a Samsung Galaxy that would attempt to scroll down web pages based on the user's eye movements... don't know how well it worked.
It sounds like a good idea, until you have your phone on the table, now you have pick it it up to unlock it to read that message you just received...
While it is in your hand it is more convenient as you normally have a finger there anyway, conceivably having it on the edge could be the best of both worlds...
"I've had at least one Samsung which had a feature whereby it would suppress the screen lock timeout if it thought you were still looking at the phone, and I'm assuming it used to front-facing camera for that."
Also (on my old Galaxy S3), while on a call the 'keypad' would be suppressed if it thought the phone was next to your cheek - which I imagine must have used the front-facing camera.
Obviously its purpose was so that you don't hit buttons with your cheek - but when trying to get through a menu on some automated call system, I'd forget and get caught out when I put my other hand over the top to reduce reflections and help me see the buttons... which promptly disappeared.
No that was almost certainly done with the ambient light sensor rather than a full camera
Certainly was. On some cheap, shitty phones, (eg Samsung Galaxy Ace 3) they took out the light sensor, and had a crappy time based screen lock, that made using such garbage impossible if you had to keep changing between ear and screen use (eg joining a conference call, or even going through your voicemail and managing settings). How I hated that phone. It was of course a corporate choice, by idiots in our IT department who didn't understand the difference between cheap and good value. Although IT desktop and infrastructure had already been outsourced to HPE, causing endless problems for users, and therefore the IT management must have been the ultimate cynics, knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.
When I bought my X I wasn't certain I was going to keep it - not only because I was unsure about the notch, I also was unsure about giving up some screen width from my 6s plus and whether I'd feel Face ID was as simple as Touch ID.
After a few days I stopped noticing the notch entirely, it doesn't bother me at all. I think I can see why Apple decided to do that - they want to remain visually distinct from other phones. The iPhone always has been, since no one else aped the big round home button - though it did end up costing them in an inability to reduce bezel size when other phones did in the last few years. They could have simply let the area around the 'notch' be bezel so no notch was required, but I think Ive chose the notch because the combination of that and rounding the screen could probably be successfully defended in court as trade dress.
The fact Apple haters hate the notch is only a bonus as far as Apple is concerned - no one is going to try to copy it when Android buyers hate it so much, so the iPhone's look will remain unique. Putting form over functionality to some extent has a long history - the shape of the Coke bottle being a prime example. You didn't have to see the label printed on it, if you saw the silhouette of the bottle you knew it was Coca Cola.
I think this is the most courageous and arduous mental journey I have ever read about: the pain in the opening paragraph seared through me like a hot curry making its final exit, whereas the gentle flower of hope bloomed strong in the second paragraph. By the end of the final paragraph, DougS has discovered his inner lion and finally allowed it to roar. And by God's armpits, it roared!
We are with you every step of the way DougS. Every. Step. Of. The. Way.
If you asked for a list of things I hate about my current iPhone 6+, the bezel will NOT be one of them.
I actually LIKE the bezel, and I think an edge to edge display is stupid. A bezel is an area that can safely be covered by a case if you'd like, it gives you a bit more space to hold the phone without covering up the screen, and it's a spot for really useful stuff like speakers, proximity sensors, and the home button. The X method of swiping is NOT as good, not as convenient, and not anywhere close to as intuitive.
If I replace this phone in the next year, it's probably going to be with a 7+ or 8+, not an X. (And I'd consider a really good deal on a used 6s+, my main issue at this point is speed, and the 6+ is a little too slow now, not way too slow.) But Face ID is clearly not ready for primetime, and may never be. Apple would be wise to go with something like the amazingly advanced technology, far ahead of its day, of a decent-sized bezel.
If they really want to innovate, they could make a thicker phone with larger, significantly higher capacity, easily swappable battery so you can have one charging while the other is attached to the phone; and of course the marvelous invention of a standard headphone jack, but that would probably be too courageous for them.
I think what most people have described is the new LG V30.
Pretty crappy front facing camera but fantastic dual cameras on the rear including class leading 4K video.
And LG have kept the 3.5mm headphone jack and mated the audio with MQA streaming and a Quad DAC. Face ID that actually works as well as a fingerprint sensor placed in a sensible place on the rear of the phone, unlike the S8.
I have had two Moto E's the previous model did not have a front facing camera and blanked the screen during calls to prevent ear button pressing. I understand it had some form of proximity sensor. Mind you it does work better with the newer model with the front facing camera. I have used it precisely once. To send my one and only selfie, because I could. The youngest in NZ was unimpressed.
just knowing that the phone was being looked at.
So now some mindless 'heavy' is going to hassle me 'over looking at his phone' as well as 'his bird'.
Fingerprint scanner on the screen?
You want them on the edges, where you generally have your fingertips when holding these idiotic 'razor edged slates/slabs'.
You want them on the edges, where you generally have your fingertips when holding these idiotic 'razor edged slates/slabs'.
You happen to be right, for a different reason: that forces the use of a 'swipe' style FP reader which is far better protected against "fingerprint replay". A pad based reader retains the residue of the previous user, which can be used to the FP equivalent of session replay. No such risk with a swipe reader.
That said, an FP reader on a shiny device is but some work away from being broken into as the shiny outside kindly preserves the required fingerprints for you. I would only ever use the FP reader on my phone if it combined with a code.
"Unless you video call or take selfies"
I regularly video chat with friends afar, and when in a group, selfies are a way to ensure you are all in the photo.. SO both functions seem needed.. Then again I don't own an iPhone, I have a sony, with a bezel at the bottom and top to hold onto while taking a selfie or video chatting without accidentally touching the screen....
"Fully aware many people do want one, but can't think it's less used than say the headphone jack the industry seems to be removing."
Removing the headphone jack is part of the ongoing war to remove all traces of analog from the tech world. You see this in the removal from FM radio in most flagship smartphones, the transition from FM to DAB radio, phasing out of analog tv to digital tv.
This is the real World War 3: digital vs analog, binary vs waveforms. Wave is our nature: brain waves, heart pulse, how light and sound get deciphered by the human body.
I suspect the futurists and transhumanists will continue to wage war on analog reality, especially with the advent of AI and virtual reality.
"without a front-facing camera. Unless you video call or take selfies, not sure what the need is."
OK, but the one thing a phone really does need - a speaker at the top, the face, in order for you to use it for its primary function - a phone.
I agree, the notch would be largely irrelevant if it was a black bar at the top, not a stupid shape.
Selfies is what photography is all about these days.
Apparently more selfies are taken than the total sum of ALL other types of picture( and posted on the internet)
Can't see the point of them myself and I've seen people put themselves in real danger to get that extra special 'this is me' shot.
For example, standing on a bridge just a few feet from a Bison who was sheperding her calf across the bridge. Stupidity if not a death wish...
FaceId is a non starter for anyone who wears safety gear on their heads especially crash helmets.
I shall stick with my positively ancient but perfectly functioning iPhone 6s(bought from a 'fanboi' who had to have the latest iDevice). TouchId works find for me.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I have found the selfie camera occasionally useful in a sort of "under-vehicle bomb inspection" role, ie. to read text on pipes etc, that is facing the ground or otherwise obstructed such that I cant see it directly.
If I can fit the phone in, and hunt around til I see the information I am looking for, its job done, otherwise I have to try and get the engineers to pick an appropriate value...
Of course, the glossy face of the phone serves almost as well as a mirror, so sometimes I dont bother activating the camera....
"perched it awkwardly on the rear of its Galaxy S and Note models."
I don't know about the Samsung placement, but on both my V10 and V20, the rear placement of the fnigerprint sensor is perfect. MUCH more user friendly than the front placement of the fingerprint sensor on my Huawei M3 tablet. So much so that learning the Mate 10 has a front fingerprint sensor went into the "cons" column for me when weighing up the pros and cons of getting one.
Some people like to be able to unlock the phone without picking it up... if it's sat on a desk or docked, for example.
I'd be happy for a hybrid approach - if the phone knows that it is in my office or home, then I'd be happy for it to use a potentially less secure face unlocking system.
Currently I use pattern-unlock (no fingerprint sensor on my phone) which has been shown to be easily observed and thus insecure.
"if the phone knows that it is in my office or home, then I'd be happy for it to use a potentially less secure face unlocking system."
On Android, I used Tasker to accomplish this. When the phone in proximity to my home WiFi, I have it disable the lock screen entirely. When near my work WiFi, it switches to a pattern unlock.
I have the Pixel XL (original, not the 2), and before that the Nexus 5X, and agree with what you said, perfect positioning of the fingerprint sensor. You lose no screen real estate by placing the sensor on the back, and it is a very natural place to put it, if you do it correctly.
I would much rather keep this than go to face-id or fingerprint on the front of the device.
So Google and other sanely minded manufacturers, please keep doing it this way!
"but my guess is that it's comfortable to use only if you use the fingerprint of your main hand's index finger"
I can use the index finger of either hand, I think you can register more than one finger, my honor can store up to five I think. The scanner is perfectly placed on the back as well. Doesn't matter which hand I pick it up with the finger falls naturally to the scanner.
I'm a bit disappointed to hear they've moved the scanners to the front :(
That is the crux of the matter.
If (an I am guessing here) with devices that have the fingerprint sensor on the rear make it easy to use one finger (of each hand) and more awkward to use your other digits then that in itself makes the device a whole lot less secure.
How many people will just take the easy route and use the most convienent finger? Just as bad as making your login password 123456?
worth thinking about perhaps?
I'd agree - but in practise it's a pain in the &rs3.
I've disabled mine again, after I lost count of the number of times I pressed the power button to turn the screen OFF as I placed it in my pocket, and the bloody sensor activated and turned the screen back ON, AND unlocked it! {Deity} knows what I've randomly deleted from the phone due to this.
It's very engineeringly clever to mix the power/screen and unlock interfaces into one location, but it's not been thought through. :(
(otherwise the Xperia 5C is a superb phone. :) )
>Balls! iPhone needs two hands to unlock the display. The Pixel needs one. (I have both)
I manage quite easily with a single hand...
Actually I manage quite easily with one hand on the iPad mini as well, so I don't even think it's device size related.
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