back to article Thou shalt use our drone app, UK.gov to tell quadcopter pilots

As Prince Harry and actress Meghan Markle announce their engagement today, equally thrilling news is also breaking across Britain: new laws forcing drone operators to register. The new law will make it illegal to fly a drone weighing more than 250 grams unless you have registered with the government and passed various safety …

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  1. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Flame

    Whilst we have businesses flying drones, they are flying Chinese, American or French technology, whereas in the 80s we led the home computer boom

    ... and we were completely unable to sort out the education system to keep it going.

    1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Perhaps this is the UK's attempt to jump-start the market in "micro-drones" and lead the world in twenty years' time.

    2. BongoJoe

      ... and we were completely unable to sort out the education system to keep it going.

      Exactly.

      The education system kept churning out Middle Managers which were the bane of my techie life.

      1. Snapper

        'IT'

        My kids were brought up on an unrelenting diet of Microsoft Office as 'IT'. Homework was usually prepared using PowerPoint on templates that were sized as US Letter, as it seems the teachers didn't know the difference. Hence all their work was squashed horizontally when printed on A4.

        Don't know what it taught them apart from IT being boring and that mediocre results were acceptable.

        1. EricM

          Re: 'IT'

          > Don't know what it taught them apart from IT being boring and that mediocre results were acceptable.

          "IT" often taught in school as just being boring crap ... could not agree more here...

          However, the UK is not alone. At least here in Germany it's exactly the same. I guess this happens in all parts of the world where Microsoft is allowed to pay its way into the education system to farm future customers.

          Raspberrys to the rescue ...

  2. Wolfclaw

    Some regulation is required, but this is just being heavy handed, faceless pen pushers will be delighted, more job security !

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I think the Police are the ones that will love this.

      Ooo protest going on...can't have anyone checking what we up to...but we of course can capture, match and store everyones face, even if they have nothing to do with it or are going about their legal right to protest.

      1. K

        Agreed, but I suspect they'll get a taste of their own medicine... Somebody will reverse engineer the App and do this to the Police drones:

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4695594/Drone-unit-historic-step-policing-UK.html

  3. Missing Semicolon Silver badge
    WTF?

    What is a "drone" anyway?

    My son is building a plane from magicboard. It will probably weigh more than 250g once the batteries and motor are in. So I need to register this now?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What is a "drone" anyway?

      Yes...

      1. m0rt

        Re: What is a "drone" anyway?

        Not necessarily.

        https://bmfa.org/News/News-Page/ArticleID/2496/DfT-announces-commitment-to-implement-new-rules-for-drones

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: What is a "drone" anyway?

          I've done my share of RC modelling, and as a Yank I've not heard much about drones being restricted in the US this way, as of yet. It's just talk so far, but things are likely to change soon and so this DfT thing is interesting.

          The modelling-relevant paragraph from the BMFA article:

          "We remain hopeful that the DfT will retain a ‘common sense’ attitude to model flying and will also follow EASA’s lead on this. EASA recognise the excellent safety record achieved by model flying and have made special provisions in their rules to allow a much ‘lighter touch’ to be applied."

          That page also has a link to http://dronesafe.uk/. It's got the "Drone Code" (coming soon to theatre near you!) and describes the "app" as a map app that has a layer visually displaying restriction zones, so you can't claim "I didn't know."

          The app also has a ‘Fly Now’ feature that "enables you to share your drone flight location with other app users and the wider drone community, helping to reduce the risk of a drone related incident in the UK’s airspace."

          Um, need a bit of legal translation here. Is that, or is that not, saying the Fly Now "feature" is optional...?

          The announcement and PDF never mention flying model aircraft at all, only "drones" period full stop. So the BMFA is basically expecting the government to eventually wake up and include modeling exemptions in the new drone codes. A lot of BMFA are probably long time pilots (ret.) and will have connexions, so I expect they'll have some pull here.

          I figure they'll say "If it can't hover and weighs less than 5kg, it's not a drone" or something similar. The obvious next step for the hard-core dronies will be miniaturized parasail drones that go so slow they might as well be hovering!

          1. nijam Silver badge

            Re: What is a "drone" anyway?

            > We remain hopeful that the DfT will retain a ‘common sense’ attitude

            How naive. Or did you mean "acquire" rather than "retain"? That would still be naive, though.

    2. nijam Silver badge

      Re: What is a "drone" anyway?

      It's a component of bagpipes.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    So...

    They assume every drone is controlled by a smartphone now ?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So...

      I would assume not. This is the "get a fishing licence on paper" digital equivalent. It may still be for the wrong reasons and the wrong method (why is a web app not enough!!!).

      But any "command and control" software they wish to add to it... us pure pie in the sky insane thinking.

      However the article does mention integrating their systems into drone software (I assume it is on drone controllers? Though phone apps may have mandatory inclusion?). If this is just altitude limits and no fly zones (airports etc) from the GPS, or something more deeply involved I've no idea sorry.

      1. Kiwi
        Black Helicopters

        Re: So...

        If this is just altitude limits and no fly zones (airports etc) from the GPS, or something more deeply involved I've no idea sorry.

        May's government is involved it. That should give you plenty of "idea". The same government who employs rhymes-with-Elmer Fudd.

        Altitude limits, airport no fly zones, attitude limits (ie "Drone operator pissed us off by finding a way to capture footage of..."), and also protest limits (not near protests to film bad stuff by the piggywiggies), alleged terror incident limits (so you can film all the fleeing panicking people to your hearts desire, but you can't film that it's just a couple of blokes having a dust-up), and more that even I can't conceive of.

  5. TRT Silver badge

    Could they perhaps...

    require any drone over a certain size to carry an operational identification transmitter, say a radio beacon weighing 10g, emitting a unique digital registration code on a standard multiplexed frequency which could be read by a smartphone user for reporting of privacy infringements? A sort of digital permit for the pilot, or like a registration plate on a car? Or both, even. Micro-SD card carrying the pilot's registration ID.

    1. Bronek Kozicki

      Re: Could they perhaps...

      I guess the downvote is for "10g" because the remaining part seems, in principle, sane to me. The difficult practical part would be making it a legal requirement for a drone RC-receiver to carry such "registration sign".

      1. TRT Silver badge

        Re: Could they perhaps...

        If there's a two-way communication built into the drone anyway, then it should be possible to do it without a separate transmitter module. I thought of a separate module because then it gets delivered as part of your drone pilot registration return and it's standard for the country it's operating in. There's no reason I picked 10g and a separate module other than it's a small amount of payload which seems reasonable to pack in enough electronics to produce a signal of the required strength to always be detectable a little bit further than the range of the vehicle's operation - line of sight.

      2. TRT Silver badge

        Re: Could they perhaps...

        How do you enforce it so that the required identification beacon is carried? Well, in a similar way to how you ensure that cars have their registration plates? You see one, you check for a beacon. Is it the correct one? Well, I guess that's kind of hard. Same as policing anything else really. But at least having a digital registration device makes it easier.

        1. hammarbtyp

          Re: Could they perhaps...

          Basically a IFF for drones (err a DIFF). Most commercial drones can be locked down to stop flying near restricted airspace, so I can see no reason why the same rules would not apply if the IFF is not functioning.

          Of course you can't legislate for hackers or own-build types. Also what about RC aircraft?

          Also the CAA is the wrong organisation for this. They are used to dealing with 100's of registration, not thousands. Need a separate organisation totally funded by registration fees

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Could they perhaps...

            there's around 20,000 aircraft (including balloons, microlights etc) registered with CAA in UK.

          2. Adrian Midgley 1

            Funded by who benefits from regulation!

            There are several bad effects of introducing a law saying you may not now do something you could before unless you pay us as much as we spend on allowing you to.

            Among them are a temptation to regulate where it might not be needed, and a lack of incentive to operate efficiently.

            Who is claimed to benefit? In short, all citizens, residents, visitors.

            Who should pay for that benefit?

            ...all citizens, residents and visitors, through general taxation.

          3. nijam Silver badge

            Re: Could they perhaps...

            > Also the CAA is the wrong organisation for this

            Yes, indeed, their response to drones has from the outset been to attempt to get them banned.

    2. Aitor 1

      Re: Could they perhaps...

      The problem is

      It will be required, but

      A) Wont be ready to buy before it is mandatory

      and or

      B) will be overweight ue batteries like mad and or cost a fortune.

      Also, this does prevent the law respecting ppl from using it, but not the not law abiding ones.

      How do they plan to enforce this?

      1. hplasm
        Big Brother

        Re: Could they perhaps...

        "How do they plan to enforce this?"

        More jobsworths in peaked caps.

    3. dubious

      Re: Could they perhaps...

      'Miniature' one and two way ADSB transceivers are already available which would enable your multirotor to participate in TCAS avoidance, but they are of the $2k region, eat power, and aren't really miniature enough for smaller than 450 class craft. The sort of proximity flying your typical 150-250 class is doing is not going to interfere with aircraft in any case, so it would just be dead weight and something else to break in a crash!

  6. Gavin Chester
    Facepalm

    Another great decision

    The majority of law abiding fliers will register. The people breaking the existing rules will not bother and continue to break the rules.

    Not sure how this improves the current situation (I already use Drone Assist...) If I was looking to do something illegal why on earth would I bother registering in the first place???

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Another great decision

      I guess it gives them a tangible law to break, rather than just "being a dickhead".

      1. Gavin Chester

        Re: Another great decision

        Possibly, but the rules exist already in the Air Navigation Orders. It's creating new rules that will be hard to enforce for the same of it.

        Look at mobile use in cars, it was already covered under driving without due care and attention, a new rule may make it a more tangible "crime" but judging by the number of people I still see clutching their mobile as they drive its not really effective as a deterrent.

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: Another great decision

          "Look at mobile use in cars, it was already covered under driving without due care and attention, a new rule may make it a more tangible "crime" but judging by the number of people I still see clutching their mobile as they drive its not really effective as a deterrent."

          I used to think that too, then it was explained to me that it was an administrative law. The driving without due care and attention required a court case and a police officer taking time to attend court to give evidence. The more specific using a phone while droving offence is ticketed on the spot and although there remains the option to challenge the ticket in court, the vast majority will accept they did wrong and pay up.

          1. John Miles

            Re: the vast majority will accept they did wrong and pay up.

            Sadly I suspect they will accept they were caught and pay up, I doubt they will consider they did anything wrong

          2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

            Re: Another great decision

            "The more specific using a phone while droving offence"

            Oops! I meant "driving" of course. I'm sure there's no offence being committed by cow herders using the phones whilst as on the job. At least not that one, anyway.

    2. Haku

      Re: Another great decision

      "The majority of law abiding fliers will register. The people breaking the existing rules will not bother and continue to break the rules."

      I've said essentially that multiple times here, along with the fact that all the police will end up with is a "nice list" when what they actually want in the case of someone being a dick with a drone is a "naughty list" which will never happen, but they have this "nice list" so they might see who lives in the area of the incedent and go interrogate them just to be sure...

  7. Jim 59

    Flying anywhere near airports is obviously madness, for which operators should go straight to prison, and no mistake. Flying near a motorway endangers others, and flying near high voltage lines endangeres the operator. All pretty much common sense, as observed by kite flyers for the last 100 years, and remote-controlled plane enthusiasts.

    But these new rules seem like an overreaction. I hate it when drone nutters annoy their neighbours or endanger others, but I quite like the way they can take arial video of interesting places. This "video" aspect is a significant freedom for citizens, and one the government is not to keen on. Are they using the (highly valid) plane-endangerment argument to slip in a bit of oppression on the side?

    1. macjules

      Bit of a bugger if you live anywhere between Kew and West Hounslow then perhaps? Are you going to say to every resident, "No sorry, you live along the final approach flightpath so no drone for you"?

      1. DavCrav

        "Are you going to say to every resident, "No sorry, you live along the final approach flightpath so no drone for you"?"

        No drone outside their front door, yes. Because the alternative is to allow people to fly drones in flight paths, which is obviously stupid.

      2. GlenP Silver badge

        I live almost adjacent to a small airport roughly in line with the end of the runway. I would never, ever, under any circumstances consider flying a drone from my property it's simple common sense.

        1. Cynic_999

          "

          I live almost adjacent to a small airport roughly in line with the end of the runway. I would never, ever, under any circumstances consider flying a drone from my property it's simple common sense.

          "

          The problem with "common sense" is that it's so often wrong. There would be nothing dangerous or wrong with practicing drone racing or similar low-level operations in your house or garden. Or even taking some videos of your property from 50 or 60 feet up. If an aircraft using the airport is flying lower than 100 feet over your property, a drone would be the least of the pilot's problems unless your house is extremely close to the runway threshold.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            "The problem with "common sense" is that it's so often wrong"

            Absolutely: you don't allow for error - navigation or mechanical.

  8. jms222

    When did flying become about apps ?

    1. TRT Silver badge

      Since day one...

      App, app and away!

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Since day one...

        WIll 2017 be known as The Year Of The Great 'Appening?

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'm surprised no one has wished Harry well and passed congratulations onto his father.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I thought the topic here was drones.

      Oh, wait ... never mind.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        A drone that will never make the thone.

  10. Chrissy

    What is a drone?

    What is a drone?

    Like all laws, this will always hang on the definitions, and likely be really badly drafted.

    I've just built 2 Emax quads and a flying wing, all 3 with FPV, all above 300g TOW.

    The quads have basic flight controllers purely as that's what quads need to fly, but their FCs have no GPS or RetToHome logic built in.

    The police will not have the time or expertise to delve into any 1 FC's capabilities, so this would be simplified to: "a drone is anything with multiple rotors".

    So to your average policeman, because "quads are multirotors, a quad is therefore a drone" and so would fall in this legislation, whereas the flying wing would not.

    Yet I could easily install a full featured FC in the wing and get it to autonomously fly from say Windsor to LHR and back, and the police would be none the wiser to its capabilities, nor would they likely seize it as "its not got multiple props so its not a drone, Sarge".

    All they would see is the wing, a battery, a motor and two three plastic boxes, so the default response will likely slide towards "seize ANY RC kit as its better we err on the side of caution".

    I also see this in the Gov announcement:

    "

    The government is also working closely with drone manufacturers to use geo-fencing to prevent drones from entering restricted zones.

    "

    Good luck with geofencing any of my RC kit; none of it has GPS, nor any logic besides basic FC.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What is a drone?

      Also, FOS flight controllers, like the Ardupilot, can be had for well under £100 and include all you need to make a 'drone' fully autonomous. Good luck enforcing that.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What is a drone?

      "The government is working closely with drone manufacturers..."

      DJI may be playing ball but good luck getting the open source projects to comply and trusting that nobody will disable such code later if they do. A Chinese clone flight controller board can be got on eBay for £18. If Dope Dealer Dave wants a drone for nefarious purposes, there will be someone who will build him one from untraceable parts with the geo-restrictions neutered for a fat enough wodge of beer vouchers.

      A recent story about the "Beat the BOSS" micro mobile phones that can be easily concealed said they cost about £25 and are changing hands for up to £500 each in prisons. With that kind of mark up plus the money that could be made smuggling drugs or weapons, DDDave can afford to offer someone £1000 tax-free to make him a drone that costs £200 to build. With the state of many people's finances as they are in this age of austerity, somebody will be tempted.

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