SurfaceBook 2 battery drains even when plugged in Microsoft's acknowledged an embarrassing issue with its SurfaceBook 2 laptop – its battery can drain even while plugged into its power pack. Microsoft's billed the laptop as offering “Powerhouse performance” thanks to the presence of NVIDIA GeForce GTX GPUs in most models. Redmond's also promoted the machines as offering …
M$ don't care! Why? They're a Deaf Cult. It makes sense. Why else mess with your Windows & Office golden nugget and mess-up the UI. Or turn your OS into Facebook & Google slurp. Or use front-line home users as guinea pigs for windows updates.
There's an unanswered question here about how Microsoft got to be so big. especially as they killed off most free-tech support long ago. The truth is, many of us on sites just like this worked for Microsoft informally, by having friends / family / colleagues / girlfriends calling up in the middle of the night with a crisis etc!
We helped Microsoft sell gear that wasn't ready for primetime, because we acted as the glue to make it work. Well no more! I refuse to help a single person who uses anything from Office365 to Windows10. I won't be that gimp anymore. I've been clear with friends / family / colleagues, don't call me, I don't want to know. But if you change your mindset towards FOSS, I'm your guy!
"I refuse to help a single person who uses anything from Office365 to Windows10. I won't be that gimp anymore. I've been clear with friends / family / colleagues, don't call me, I don't want to know. But if you change your mindset towards FOSS, I'm your guy!"
This! Both teenage kids laptops run Linux - one Dell bought new with it preinstalled saving £80 over the windows version) and the other easily changed to Linux Mint. All run the software they need and zero issues since day 1. Fuck their Windows 10 spyware and Office 365 rent-not-own software.
Fuck their Windows 10 spyware and Office 365 rent-not-own software.
I definitely agree with you about Windows 10 because the UI is shit. Nowhere near as shit as Win 8. Not as shit as Vista. But far shittier than Win 7 (or even XP). Fuck them.
I definitely agree with you about spyware. Fuck them.
I definitely agree with you that Office (in any incarnation) is buggy shit not fit for purpose. Fuck them.
I don't fully agree with you about rent-not-own. Software is as overpriced as it is partly because you get "free" bugfixes and security fixes for some period after purchase (mainly because Microsoft are thieving bastards, but the price does have a component for continued fixes). Users would be better served (by an ethical company) if the software were free but they paid for support. Except many people would forgo support, and we'd have even more infected machines than we already do.
So the best model is software rental, which would mean Microsoft wouldn't have to re-arrange the entire UI every few years to make users think it's a good idea to purchase a new version. Most UI changes from Microsoft have been to create a new revenue stream, not to improve the product, and often the only way to drastically change the UI (enough to make it seem like a must-have upgrade) makes it worse. Of course, that rental model is only a good idea if the company is ethical, honest, and cares about its customers. Microsoft will just use it as a way of forcing lock-in (sorry, you can't export your data from 365 in anything other than a simple text format that discards a lot of vital information).
Rent-not-own is a good idea when dealing with an ethical, honest company that cares about its customers. Neither renting nor buying is a good idea when dealing with Microsoft.
"I definitely agree with you about Windows 10 because the UI is shit. Nowhere near as shit as Win 8. Not as shit as Vista. But far shittier than Win 7 (or even XP)."
To me, the Windows 10 UI is the worst MS has ever come up with. Win 8.1 is pretty appalling out of the box, but it can be fixed, for the most part. The entire "app" portion of Windows 8.1 can be uninstalled, ripped out by means of aftermarket tools, blocked, and ignored, with the Win32 half still intact. You can't do that in 10, as Microsoft removed so much functionality from the Control Panel that you can't get by without Settings anymore. A lot of the system dialogs that used to fall under Control Panel (even if you got to them without opening the control panel) are now in Settings. You can't escape the ugly, idiotic UWP styling that has infected Windows 10, and before they've even finished migrating to that, they've started on a third "design language" in the same OS.
Vista was okay, UI wise. It wasn't as good as XP or Win 2k, which to me are the gold standard of UI design, but Vista was still pretty usable with some tweaking. Vista's problems didn't stem from its UI, which is nearly identical to that of Windows 7, and its very real performance and stability issues were corrected in time. By the time it passed out of extended support, it had been a decent OS for some time, though its name was hopelessly tarnished by then.
Windows 10 is far worse than either 8.x or Vista, as I see it. Windows 8's issues were and are still removable, and what lies underneath is a stable and competent desktop OS. I'm a purist when it comes to UIs, but I chose to upgrade from 7 to 8.1 (suitably modified) about a year ago. Vista's issues were a function of it being rushed to market before it was ready (it was already massively overdue) and MS giving in to Intel regarding the "Vista capable" nonsense, both of which faded in time. Windows 10's flaws are designed in, and they cannot easily be removed. Even if you do manage to do it, the insane update schedule means that even if you manage to dig the flaws out, they'll just be put right back in within a few months, and the means you used to de-stupidize it may not work after that. A Windows 10 installation that may or may not be de-stupidizable is a no-go.
"Software is as overpriced as it is partly because you get "free" bugfixes and security fixes for some period after purchase (mainly because Microsoft are thieving bastards, but the price does have a component for continued fixes)"
So what you're saying is, basically, it's worth paying a lot for buggy insecure software because the developer's going to fix some of the flaws after you've paid for it?
Hmm... They've got us well trained, haven't they?
Both teenage kids laptops run Linux
So do mine. I actually gave them a choice - showed them various screen shots of desktops (including Windows - which I assumed they would have picked).
My daughter (11) went for gnome 3, son (14) for cinnamon.
Problems? zero.
Bundled ad/spyware? zero.
Complaints? Daughter wants 2 monitors.
"I won't be that gimp anymore."
I reached that point with Vista. I'll happily use Windows if I am being to do so, but not in my own time. I helped my pro bono support clients migrate to Mac or Linux and life has been so much better since.
All I know is that first you've got to get mad. You've got to say: 'I'm a human being, god-dammit! My life has value!'
I don't see that this is a problem that can be fixed. This is clearly an issue that was on the table at design stage. Meetings were had, decisions were approved and now here we are. Microsoft obviously knew this was a possible issue, but likely decided it's potential was not hazardous enough to upgrade the power brick.
And now the SurfaceBook 2 needs to be throttled in order to charge the battery properly. I somehow doubt that just changing the power brick for a more powerful one will do - I'm guessing the electronics handling the charging in the SBook 2 won't be able to handle the surge. Laptops in general are the high-wire act of PC electronics - they are calibrated to respond to specific and precise conditions and nothing is supposed to get them outside of their defined comfort zones.
So I really don't see how this can be fixed.
Unless I'm wrong, of course, and you can just plug in a more powerful brick and be done with it, but in that case this whole issue is even more stupid.
So I really don't see how this can be fixed.
I do. They just need to stop marketing it so ambitiously, and avoid making (implied) claims that it can run at full chat continuously. Even if they stuck in a 120W power brick, what's that going to do to the temperature of an ultra-thin laptop with no proper cooling? It'll cook the battery for starters, damaging life expectancy, it won't be so good for the electronics, although it will be great for slow cooking fresh human thigh meat, on the bone.
For the minority that need a laptop capable of continuous duty at 100W+, there's far, far better options from the makers of laptops targeted at gamers, and they'll be thicker, heavier,far more expensive and have better cooling solutions.
Any millennials wanting the profile of a Chromebook, the price of a vanilla business grade laptop, and the power of a full-fat i7 and matching GPU may need to go and learn about physics, economics, and common sense. This "problem" is just a fairly normal combination of marketing over-promise, and gullible customers.
You would if they seemed to care. The way Windows 10 updates tells you that they don't. I've had to help out two friends recently who purchased the current low cost netbook configuration of 2Gb RAM, 32Gb solid drive with Windows 10 Home as presents. They did this because 'Windows is what everyone uses' and now they have found out why everyone needs to stop using it. The update process is not only prone to failure (one unit would not update as it had a Microsoft wireless mouse usb dongle in the USB 2 port, who would have thought) neither could update with the size of the drive and needed a USB stick of at least 16Gb to do the update (no where was this process made clear enough for a new user), it then took around 4 hours to update and knocked out the usb charger drivers in the process (I got these all working for them in the end but the trauma on their faces was clear, when I said this might happen any time there was a major update).
I'm not saying a Chromebook is the best thing but the lack of hassle and speed of the updates alone sold them to my friends.
My first (and only) Windows Phone, a Nokia 710 used to do this using Nokia Drive/Here maps with GPS, when charging via micro usb, the phone would die even though plugged in.
At least MIcrosoft are consistent.
thought that someone would buy a computer and use it to its advertised max potential
In the early 80's, we bought a set of mains-bourne intercom units for use at home (and up to Dad's greenhouse) from Radio Shack[1].
They kept failing - they would work reliably for about a week and then one (or more) of the units would fail and need to be replaced.
In the end, Dad asked for our money back. Shop manager tried to argue with us that they were failing "because you keep them plugged in all the time and they were not made for that". Dad pointed out the fallacy of selling intercoms that required you to go to the other end to ask someone to turn on the intercom before you could use the intercom..
All done in front of a fairly full shop. Money was refunded ASAP so as to not lose more business than they already had..
[1] Which was our first mistake. Every bit of electronics we bought from there seemed to fail after a couple of months. Stuff bought elsewhere was reliable..
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I don't recall their power supplies failing to deliver enough juice. I do recall that the wiring in some of the connectors would eventually fail due to the strain generated when unplugging them. I don't think that is the same magnitude of problem as this one.
Full disclosure: I have multiple laptops at home, both Apple and several Wintel variants. In the last ten years one Apple power supply has gone TITSUP, I've lost track of the number of repairs and replacements for the windows machines' power bricks (the ThinkPad being the worst).
"Full disclosure: I have multiple laptops at home, both Apple and several Wintel variants. In the last ten years one Apple power supply has gone TITSUP, I've lost track of the number of repairs and replacements for the windows machines' power bricks (the ThinkPad being the worst)."
So by Windows machines you mean ones that would have gone titsup running Linux as well or are you trying to imply Windows was at fault ?
Fujitsu was always the worst for me, not because of the power bricks but because of the fact they were so shoddily made that when you picked them up half of the screws underneath used to fall out.
My old MacBook 3,1 will run the CPU (Core2 Duo) at half clock speed if used without it's battery. I don't know why this is, but my suspicion is that the PSU is unable to supply enough juice if the CPU is running full-tilt and presumably relies on the battery to pick up the slack in those instances.
It could simply be that the charger isn't what it claims to be.
It is - tested, measured. It is a proper 2Amp standalone 12V module which is wired directly into my car accessory circuit.
Or that the cable is bad (the cable makes a huge difference).
Brand new cable, the phone charges from 5% to 75% in under an hour in idle and draws wattage which is equivalent to two amps at the 5V.
Plain and simple - it consumes more than 10W in that mode. You can use it as a warmer in that mode. I never run it for more than 10-15 minutes, I suspect it will not survive it. Or you may cook eggs on it.
For the reference - the software in question is Sygic and the phone under test was my old Xperia M4.
Sell a device as a 'powerhouse' with an i7 and a 1070 gfx which implies strongly it will be sued for gaming which will tax the system. But then supply insufficient power so that at some point the device would fail to function as intended because it's power system can't cope.
If you bought a van that had a capacity of 10T yet when you filled it with 10T it would fail to move. That would be a fraudulent sale would it not?
0laf, don't be silly. This is the equivalent of you driving around with a tanker following you, pouring fuel into the tank at a rate slower than you're using it. The windows laptops here don't fail immediately, they work at full tilt for a period then fail. No one has said what that top load is, or how long it takes to drain the battery and no-one who's commented so far seems to give a fuck beyond jerking their knees at evil MS and moaning about the fact the windows GUI isn't the same as it was 10 years ago.
I am really surprised by this state of affairs, I came here for detailed discussion of specs and power usage!
Do you really think that most people working in IT for a living rush out and buy a bleeding edge device from Microsoft?
A largish chunk of us are so traumatised by making this mistake previously that we stay the hell away from new microsoft products until some other poor sod has done the testing and the fixes for the problems they discover have been released. Hell, many of us have been so traumitised by that one time we didn't do this that we've been avoiding new microsoft releases for longer than new entrants to our profession have been alive.
Personally, I tend to have my personal IT set up with bullet proof reliability as I never, ever want to do lots of debugging of crappy bleeding edge devices in my own personal time. I do it all day at work because I get paid quite well to do it, but I just want to go home to things that actually work.
That having been said, it shouldn't be hard to make your own charger with a higher capacity transformer. If you didn't have to worry about shoddy design on the laptop connector not being rated for the higher current, or the laptop itself melting from prolonged usage because it's probably not got adequate thermal management for the user actually having the audacity to use the device, that is.
Which brings me back to avoiding new releases until other people less clued up have learned the problems the hard way. :/
"I am really surprised by this state of affairs, I came here for detailed discussion of specs and power usage!"
Haha! Thanks for that - I like to start the day with a laugh!
Comments like "A laugh, you say? Try looking down in the shower", or "I've got a set of 'Speak your weight' scales you can borrow" to no doubt follow...
;-)
As a full time motorhomer, I take an interest in what's out there with the new builds (the old ones are still better, in my view: which almost echos the Win7/Win10 viewpoints).
Anyway, Olaf, one of the UK firms of motorhome manufacturers released a year or so ago a new range of motorhomes with lots of groovy and fun extras.
One slight problem; the weight of the thing (the payload to be accurate) was in excess of what was allowed to be driven on the roads. It didn't stop them selling the motorhomes though.
Yes, you can use the petrol engine to charge the batteries, but if you want maximum performance we can run both the engine and the motor to the drivetrain at the same time.
If you don't need maximum performance at any time, we can switch back to recharging the batteries with it.
Did they forget to include the 'up to ...' clause in the marketing :-
The Surface can deliver 'up to' quite a lot of welly. The Surface can deliver 'up to' lots of battery life. Deliverance of welly and battery life are mutually exclusive. Do not use your Surface to develop a particularly taxing power point just before heading off to a meeting to deliver that power point as it will have eaten your battery which can cause 'up to' a lot of bad language and 'up to' significant damage to the Surface as it contacts the wall.
The same problem we had with Intel powered Windows tablets - they would discharge faster than they could be charged. A bit of a pain in the rear, as we were using them for a Point of Sale application and needed to test for hours on end (the customer had insisted on Windows tablets since they had other apps that would only run on them). In the end my employer had to get multiple tablets for each developer...
Up to 17 hours battery life, can't always be charged, "keep an eye on power management settings", "will never completely be depleted".
How...Just how, do you fuck up that badly that even your excuses are contradictory?
Seems like comments from 2 different reps: one saying it's not an issue, and the other apologising.
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