Car tax evasion has soared since paper discs scrapped The abolition of the paper tax disc is costing the UK government £107m due to an increase in car tax evasion. According to statistics from the the Department for Transport (DfT), 1.8 per cent of vehicles on UK roads in 2017 were unlicensed, compared to 1.4 per cent in 2015. This equates to around 755,000 vehicles and could …
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I drove a brand new car for 6 months with the wrong number plate on it, and the only time it became apparent was when I took it to another garage to get serviced. The number plate didn't exist. So back I went to the garage I bought it from, and they very hastily changed the number plate.
Quite simply, the way we pay for car tax now and the method is brilliant. No one I know has moaned about it. The issue is remembering it's due. Thats where the tax disc was brilliant as it was a visual reminder. Now we don't have it.
Thats where the tax disc was brilliant as it was a visual reminder. Now we don't have it.
How hard would it be for DVLA to generate a PDF with a tax disk in it that the car owner could download & print ? This would have no legal standing but it would serve as a reminder. It could even be a money spinner ... there are enough people who would pay an extra 50p car tax in exchange for a personalised tax disk: picture of your cat, iconic background (Buck house, ...), slogan (my other car is a ...).
"How hard would it be for DVLA to generate a PDF with a tax disk in it that the car owner could download & print ? "
Good idea. When the change first came in I photoshopped a scan of the old disk to make a new reminder.
However they do send letters reminding me to pay. So it's not that hard to remember.
"Thats where the tax disc was brilliant as it was a visual reminder. Now we don't have it."
I suspect that may be a big reason from the increase in untaxed cards - from the headlines I'd assumed there were a huge proportion of cars now not taxed but from the figures here then 1 person in 300 forgetting that their car need its tax renewing would explain the change which doesn't sound entirely impossible.
"How hard would it be for DVLA to generate a PDF with a tax disk in it that the car owner could download & print ?"
When you renew online you can get an email to confirm which you could print out and file. Also, they still send you a reminder letter if you've kept the "keepers" address upto date - I just write on that thah I've renewed and file that. Finally, there is an online mechanism to check the car tax status of anycar (you have to click to say its your car or you are authorised to look up the status!) on the governemnt web site and I think that also gives the renewal date.
Now, ensuring you car is insured when Direct Line forget to send you the renewal letter is another matter - a couple of weeks back I thought I ought to have heard from them, checked the existing policy and found it was about to expire in 4 days!
i just have mine set to monthly payment if that stops coming out of my bank i know my car is untaxed (but i agree this is a pure money grab and they saying that they are losing £80 to untaxed cars is a farce as they fine you over £100-400 fine+tax fee to re tax your vehicle (if police catch you its 3 points+ fine),, if the come around and see the car on the road or a DVLA controlled APNR cam catches it
"Thats where the tax disc was brilliant as it was a visual reminder. Now we don't have it."
Well we all have smartphones, PCs, laptops, online services, pen and paper, calendars, there's an Office World in most towns, there's not real reason to not put a quick reminder in your phone to nag you in 6 or 12 months time to pay such-and-such.
Here's a Blue Peter idea!
The tax disc doesn't exist, so print your own and stick in your car to remind you. There must be plenty of stock photos of them online, slap it into Word or whatever, put the next due date in and print your own handy reminder!
Thats where the tax disc was brilliant as it was a visual reminder. Now we don't have it.
How hard would it be to cut out a paper disc of the same size, write a date on it, and slip it into a tax disc holder glued to your windscreen?
If you need a reminder and don't have a mobile phone with a calendar app on it, that low-tech trick would work.
"the way we pay for car tax now and the method is brilliant. No one I know has moaned about it. The issue is remembering it's due"
Here in Switzerland the licensing department simply sends an invoice when the tax is due. How difficult can that be to set up, as opposed to leaving it to individuals to remember to pay it??
All speed averaging cameras are capable of dumping ANPR info for this purpose. All of London low emission zone cameras can do it too. Same for the congestion charge. Same for parking charges. Same for...
Not doing so is a waste of public money - in most cases we f*** paid for the bloody things to be put up. In the cases where they are private (ANPR at parking entrances and exists) the police is perfectly entitled to ask for a nicely formatted dump once a month.
Schoolboy's tax disc reminder business makes him thousands of pounds in just weeks.
"All of London low emission zone cameras can do it too. Same for the congestion charge. "
7 years ago the Met was estimating that thanks to congestion charge cameras, around 8-10% of cars on London roads were running on cloned plates.
The dork that drove into me went one better, not only was the plate fake, but the tax disc that went with it was visually quite credible - and the car even had a faked up VIN that passed casual view (as in right for the model). It shouldn't be a surprise that he ran off and left his pride&joy sitting in the middle of a busy Croydon road, rather than be there when the Plod arrived.
Simply enable automatic fining from ANPR camera's and smart motorway camera's across the UK. They'll get flagged up by police vehicles too.
Flag them for enquiry, but automatic fining would run into issues (unless you have a robust appeals system).
For instance, last year I moved house and duly submitted the V5 portion for change-of-address.
The monkey at the DVLA somehow decided I had sold the car to another person of the same name and did a change-of-keeper.
Because tax does not transfer, the car was then technically untaxed for over a month whilst the DVLA unpicked their mistake.
ANPR would have told you that the "new" owner was untaxed, but in reality there was no new owner, just a paperwork error. Since I did not pay in the cheque they sent me for the unused tax (I sent it back with the erroneous V5), any court would be forced to concede that I had indeed paid my tax and the DVLA had my money, they'd just messed up their paperwork.
But we don't really want to bung up the court system with that sort of nonsense.
Similar with myself a few years ago, I was taxing the wife's new (to her - used) car but they asked for my name, I'd assumed for legal purposes I gave it.
The V5 later arrived with my name on it. Sent it back with an explanation letter and to correct to my wife's details, they sent one back in her name but with myself as previous owner. Which means that instead of "2 previous owners" it now has 3, minor but these details help when it comes to resale.
Nice, but I have another idea.
1. No tax, automatic fine.
2. No MOT, vehicle impounded, MOTed and returned at owners expense, lets say 500 GBP, and this money goes to fixing the roads.
3. No Insurance, car crushed by the new mobile car crusher, owner pays 1000 GBP for the privilege, money goes to the roads.
Round here no ANPR cameras, so rural driving for free (not that I do it)
"this money goes to fixing the roads."
Sort of good idea but here's a better one.
All money paid in VED goes primarily to fixing roads. If and only if there's any left over does it go to the Treasury.
This was a tax previously known as the Road Fund Licence. That, obviously, was embarrassing once the Treasury decided to use it as a form of general taxation.
1) Have you ever, ever been unlucky? My road tax fell off my van minutes after renewing it. Camera. Instant fine.
2) An MOT is a certificate that the vehicle is roadworthy. If it ain't moving? You might as well lump it into (1) as a tax.
3) Ever had a car crushed? Sorry, it wasn't registered as insured in your name.. talk to fob off dept.
Under your new rules.. am I not allowed a party? Someone left a car on my back lawn. It wasn't taxed. No idea if it had an mot. Who's responsible? I waited a couple of weeks, applied for the reg docs then asked local plod: "fuck it, it's yours mate".
The above is an extreme example of "a parent may be in hospital". Get a grip!
Punishment (automatic fines, impound fees, car crushing) is not an effective way of reminding people to pay their tax. Whish it was. Would be nice if it was. But it's not.
This hits people hardest who are stupid, disorganised or crazy. The people who have no money and are doing it tough because they are stupid, disorganised or crazy.
I understand that the police don't use tax disks anymore, they are all compuertised. I don't think poor, stupid, ignorant, crazy people should be penalized because the police don't need hard copy.
1. No tax, automatic fine.
2. No MOT, vehicle impounded,
3. No Insurance, car crushed by the new mobile car crusher,
Th big problem with all this (apart from the draconian nature) is that (as previous posters have shown) is that none of the management of these things is perfect.
Do you fancy losing your car (or having it crushed) because some clerk somewhere is having a bad day and enters details incorrectly?
I don't..
I'd agree in principle though I suspect you must be young. Decades ago before "sorn" I had a traffic warden attempt to lift the cover off an off-road car. PCSO's and wardens are the same mentality. We knew he would be back. My mate owned a 1939 US army comms truck, one of those six wheel jobbies. If you were lucky it would crank raw fuel down the sidepipes then fire up. Told you to move mate.
ANPR only works for the masses. Buy a number plate with my reg on it and I'm in a whole load of shit.
in the USA the car license fees (and taxes) are handled by departments of motor vehicles. In Cali-Fornicate-You, they issue a sticker that you put on your license plate. Some states issue new license plates every year (or used to). Your car gets cited if the sticker is observed to be out of date. And each year's sticker is a different color so it's easy to see from a distance.
The sticker system works pretty well, actually. I'm not sure what a paper disk looked like, but if it was placed in the car windshield it would be a similar kind of system.
now, if Cali-Fornicate-You would just STOP IT with the tax increases I'd be a lot happier...
Simply enable automatic fining from ANPR camera's(sic)
Because no one would ever clone another number plate would they? Or use a numberplate from another vehicle..
(Like most automated enforcement methods, ANPR is a pretty blunt instrument. Useful in certain circumstances, pretty useless in others).
Abolish road tax and put it on fuel instead. It's done elsewhere so why not here. You pay more or less according to your road usage. Simple, fair and no way of avoiding it.
Oh, and an insurance disc required to be displayed on the windscreen for good measure, to me that's more important to know that is covered.
"no more disks in windscreens! ANPR can look it up automatically, no need to go back to last century tech!"
Is this on the same site that is sick of governments spying on everyone? Yes, yes it is.
You're suggesting what realistically, 10,000 to a 100,000 cameras?
You do know those that are deliberately avoiding them, will just dodge down a different road to avoid any fixed ones.
You're suggesting what realistically, 10,000 to a 100,000 cameras?
From ACPO and Surveillance Camera Commissioner announcements It is possible to say with confidence that we've got something around 45,000 public surveillance cameras already (not including ten times that number of private or commercially owned cameras), and since the authorities have gone large on surveillance, they might as well use the things properly. We know they don't, but that begs the question why did the tossers bother in the first place, other than wasting my money on toys for bureaucrats?
"You do know those that are deliberately avoiding them, will just dodge down a different road to avoid any fixed ones."
Or put their number plate in the front window obscured by wipers, and the rear one recessed back in to the bumper so high up ANPR cameras can't read it but it looks acceptable on road level.
Anonymous because of reasons...
It should be feasible to cross-reference number plates and flag impossible situations such as the same plate being 'x' miles apart within an impossible time frame.
Even better, a plate that is regularly flagged close to the registered keeper's address is more likely to be genuine than one being driven around locally in a completely different area of the country. Obviously exceptions apply, before some smart alec posts his particular situation.
The whole point of a visible representation of the tax on the car was so that *everyone* could, at a glance, see that it was taxed, not just the owner.
It was a very useful way to tell if a car or even a house was abandoned. The public could see the car was untaxed and had run out 3 months before.
For the cost of a single full colour letter, not having a disc to display is a stupid cut.
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