back to article Google's phone woes: The Pixel and the damage done

In recent years, China's high-tech production miracle and globalisation have made it easy – perhaps too easy – for an outsider or newcomer to dabble in hardware. The ease of producing hardware with your brand on it might have been too seductive, tempting companies into doing the rest of the operation on the cheap. There's more …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Other options

    Among non-Chinese brands, the Sony XZ1 costs about £600 in this country. The XZ Premium is £650.

    The Essential Phone seems already to be a flop but is going for $499.

    The Pixels simply cost too much. The word "Google" is associated with free stuff (please don't waste everyone's time by telling me it is not really free), and once that association is made very few people will pay you more than they absolutely have to.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Other options

      The XZ1 can be had for around £500. Xperia phones are always available for less than their list price, for some strange reason.

      Rubin's Essential phone has also had $200 knocked off it lately, but reviewers suggest is a fairer price for what is a decent enough but not standout device.

    2. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Other options

      You're right - the only stand out feature of the first gen Pixels were in software - clever camera stuff (that enthusiasts have ported to other Android phones on similar chipsets) and some sort of assistant software (meh).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Other options

        "the only stand out feature of the first gen Pixels were in software - clever camera stuff"

        Well that and it approached iPhone performance with pure Android code, minus all the skins and useless apps. Pixel is really responsive.

    3. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Other options

      In spite of everything Redmond has put them through, what remains of Nokia's mobile division, now back at Nokia, doesn't seem to have these problems either.

      Presumably someone remembered what QC means.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Other options

        "n spite of everything Redmond has put them through, what remains of Nokia's mobile division, now back at Nokia, "

        No, Nokia do not make cellphones - HMD Global make cellphones with Nokia's name on them and using Nokia's IP, but they are not part of Nokia.

        That said, it looks like Nokia are keeping a very close eye on QC (it is their name and reputation on the line, after all) and I'm very happy with my Nokia 8 - so happy we got my wife a Nokia 6 for herself last weekend and unless something goes sadly wrong with either of them my next work mobile will be a Nokia 6 as well. Added bonus - only one carrier added application and that can be deleted like any other downloaded app - other than that, pure unaltered Android direct from Google.

        Disclosure: Posting as AC because, but very pleased with the phone none-the-less.

        1. Steve Evans

          @A/C re: Nokia 8

          I actually handled a Nokia 8 the other day... Almost dropped it, and that was whilst being careful looking at a friend's new phone... Damn those things are slippery.

          I foresee a good market in replacements screens for those things.

          As for Nokia's original reputation (pre-Elop), the hardware was generally ok, but this was just at the beginning of the OTA patching era, and Nokia were playing catch-up, so a lot of phones got shipped with "beta" software, with the intention to fix them with updates over the air. Unfortunately once the carriers got involved, did their spin on the firmware, sold the phones, that was that... They never bothered spinning their bits onto updates Nokia issued and the phones were locked to that specific carriers firmware fork. The result that many owners were left with the "beta".

          For example, the N95 actually got very good with later versions of firmware. Not that anyone in the UK would have ever noticed, unless they'd jump through all the hoops to change the model number of theirs to generic EU model, and then manually done their own update.

          Then there was the after sales support, and the Nokia support forum... I got moderated for disrespecting the company once... I pointed out that if they continued with that level of support, customers were going to go elsewhere, and the support droid who moderated me would be out of a job. I tried to not to smile 9 months later when Elop arrived...

      2. coolcity

        Re: Other options

        Seriously? The Nokia 6 is awful, there are considerably better phones around for less.

        It was notable that the author couldn't resist the dig at Microsoft but the Lumia 950 is a far better phone overall then any of the Pixels, without the issues and for considerably less money.

    4. Teiwaz

      Re: Other options

      The word "Google" is associated with [apparently] free stuff

      Isn't that better? Now you don't have to worry about running the gauntlet with those who disagree the price on 'free'.

      Nothing is ever free, there is always a price, a hook, a catch.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Other options

        "Nothing is ever free, there is always a price, a hook, a catch."

        Yeah, but the "catch" is that you occasionally see a non invasive ad... in exchange for a ocean of free, awesome software and services. I'll take that "price" as opposed to the kind of price where they want you to pay money.

        1. jmch Silver badge

          Re: Other options

          "... I'll take that "price" as opposed to the kind of price where they want you to pay money."

          Google revenue for 2016 - approx $90 billion

          Number of Google users - approx 2.2 billion

          Even accounting for the fact that many Google accounts are fake, single-use or unused, so let's say 1.5 billion real and active users... that means Google makes $60/year off every user. Would you really not pay $5/mth for all of Google's services if it meant (a) no ads and more importantly (b) orders of magnitude less intrusive data gathering that is required to drive the ad engines (ie they just use/keep the data required to make the services work together)

          The only problem is that Google doesn't have that option, and while many other similair services with a paid option exist individually, they don't tie together (less convenience) or are not as good. For most people (including AC, apparently) , not caring that Google has so much of their data means that the cost/convenience vs privacy balance will always have cost/convenience winning

          1. Seajay#

            Re: Other options

            But that intrusive data gathering is also what makes search work and voice recognition, translation, spam filtering, etc so they would have to do that anyway if you wanted it to be just as good and that means your $5 doesn't buy you any privacy all it would buy you is the removal of the ads and for me that wouldn't be worthwhile.

            There's another problem. Of those 1.5 billion users, many of them are way too poor to make $60/year for Google. The ones who make it worthwhile are the rich ones but if Google offered an opt-out option, that would be disproportionately taken by its richer customers. Then they would find themselves in the situation where almost all of their ad revenue disappears but only a small proportion of their customers are paying them. It could only generate them the same revenue if all 1.5 billion paid and that isn't going to happen.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Other options

            >The only problem is that Google doesn't have that option, and while many other similair services with a >paid option exist individually, they don't tie together

            Google do have that option.

            It's google for business and it's about £3.99 a month per user last time I checked....

    5. Dr Mantis Toboggan
      Megaphone

      Re: Other options

      Let's see if IphoneX gets the same press crucifixion for its screen burn and colour shift..

      https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208191

      WE ALL KNOW THE ANSWER, IT WILL GET A FREE PASS, as the viral spin that created the pixel2XL story originated from Cupertino via a bought blogger....

      It was no coincidence it happened when it did, to deter and Apple defectors

  2. djstardust

    Just like Apple

    They think they can get away with selling mid range crap at an exorbitant price.

    No luck.

    Add to that the 2XL being made by LG with their terrible quality and it's not looking good.

    Wouldn't touch them with a bargepole.

    1. Solarflare

      Re: Just like Apple

      "Wouldn't touch them with a bargepole"

      Probably a good thing, can't imagine that would pass the fingerprint sensor.

    2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: Just like Apple

      They think they can get away with selling mid range crap at an exorbitant price.

      Your attitude can be easily corrected by spending a few months on beanbags somewhere in the valley. Once you get intoxicated on the lala air in lala land your perception will be altered accordingly so you will accept any ideas originated from the beanbag pile in the teletubby room as the new normal.

    3. Inspector71

      Re: Just like Apple

      I wouldn't argue with you that Apple gouge you as far as phone specs are concerned but your average user i.e. about 98% of iPhone users couldn't give a toss about that. It's about the "experience" which yes is partly about the "shiny" but also about the level of support you get with it.

      Got a problem, take it to the Apple Store. Broken, yep we'll replace that. That's why they are happy to pay the Apple Idiot Tax (copyright - El Reg).

      Apple have dropped the ball at times no question and like any support for literally millions and millions of products it isn't perfect and you can certainly take issue with the walled garden but the users are not stupid which is why they will pay what you would consider exorbitant prices. I am getting a bit tired of this echo chamber where the average user is dismissed as stupid or sheep or idiots. They are not stupid and neither are Apple which is why the majority of iPhone users will upgrade to another iPhone and Apple has market capitalization heading towards $1 trillion.

      /end rant

      declaration: Never had an iPhone still clinging to my Blackberry

      1. IsJustabloke
        Meh

        Re: Just like Apple

        "Got a problem, take it to the Apple Store. Broken, yep we'll replace that. "

        Pretty sure that for every instance of that, there's a matching instance of "*shrug* Not our problem buddy" I have several friends with iPhones and they can all claim to have had both experience types in an Apple store.

        Obvs, I admit this is anecdotal.and that's not say that makes apple users sheeple or idiots but Apple marketing would have you believe they always do 'x' to fix/help users whereas they in fact no different from any other corporation in as much as they will try their utmost to wriggle out of stuff.

        1. fidodogbreath

          Re: Just like Apple

          Apple every company in the world's marketing would have you believe they always do 'x' to fix/help users whereas they in fact no different from any other corporation...

          FTFY

          1. IsJustabloke
            Thumb Up

            Re: Just like Apple

            @fidodogbreath

            I'm not the one that needs to be reminded of that :)

            As an aside it's a bit weird that people have down voted my post because I have actually heard my friends veer from, "awesome! Apple have just fixed my *insert broken thing* for nothing how cool is that!?!?" to "Bollocks! Fucking Apple have a said they won't fix *insert broken thing * unless I stump up another x quid!"

        2. jmch Silver badge

          Re: Just like Apple

          "I admit this is anecdotal"

          Everyone has their anecdotes. FWIW, I never had an iPhone, but I have an iMac that has run without trouble for years, mostly always on, just needed a RAM upgrade at some point. Also I had an old (2nd gen I think) iPod nano, subject to a recall even though there seemed to be nothing wrong with mine. Got a brand new latest-gen one (4th or 5th?) as a replacement. I guess that given Apple's success, anecdotes aside, on aggregate they do a very good job.

          It might be "overpriced" at the point of purchase, but how much does it cost to have to deal with broken stuff? If it costs you 5-10 hours over the lifetime of a device to do fixes, how much is your time worth and how does factoring that in to teh cost of the device change the balance of "overpriced"?

      2. fidodogbreath

        Re: Just like Apple

        I am getting a bit tired of this echo chamber where the average user is dismissed as stupid or sheep or idiots.

        I work in the software development group at an engineering firm, with some of the smartest and most technically adept people I've ever met. Our software products are all Windows-only, and there is not a single Mac to be found in the building. However, the phone distribution is about 65% iPhone to 35% Android.

        Our programmers, engineers, and mathematicians are not ignorant sheeple who blindly pay a so-called idiot tax because they are too stupid to do otherwise; nor does anyone in this building (AFAIK) care about status symbols. They choose a solution that best meets their needs at the price they're willing to pay. I fail to understand why that is so difficult for some people to accept.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Just like Apple

          "Our programmers, engineers, and mathematicians are not ignorant sheeple who blindly pay a so-called idiot tax because they are too stupid to do otherwise"

          But they are well paid professionals to whom the cost of something like a phone is immaterial. I have my cars on extended warranty and service plans because the cost is immaterial to me but not having to think about these things is a bonus. If most of the people you know are in the Apple ecosystem, and the cost is immaterial, you'll buy Apple for messaging and so on. No problem with that.

          The problem comes when the young woman comes into the debt advisory service and they point out that her £50 a month iPhone/Galaxy Note 8/whatever contract is a significant part of why she can't pay her rent. At that point you start to wonder whether the creation of glamorous images around products and the marketing of peer pressure is such a good thing. These are the people referred to as "sheep".

          1. Inspector71

            Re: Just like Apple

            Voyna i Mor

            I agree about what you say about the possible pernicious effects of marketing and the fallout. But don't you think that it is more about the general access to easy credit in our society. I mean how easy is it to sign up to that £50/month contract with no checking whatsoever about the ability to actually pay. Are they really going to turn a sale down? You talk about your cars on extended warranty and credit, the same applies even more so to cars which are the biggest of big ticket items. The UK is in danger of a total sh*tstorm with sub prime car loans which is how about 85-90% of cars here are bought. I think that has a lot more to do with that young woman getting into problems than Apple's marketing savvy.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Just like Apple

              "I mean how easy is it to sign up to that £50/month contract with no checking whatsoever about the ability to actually pay. "

              Oh yes, easy credit is one of the banes of society, and it's happening because interest rates are so low, which is in part to keep the BFL landlords and house "investors" happy. Banks need to lend a lot to get any kind of return.

              I stopped debt funding anything in my early 40s when I paid off my mortgage. I buy everything for cash. If necessary in the past I've waited before buying. I've brainwashed my kids enough that they have no debt but mortgages. I think I've done quite well out of it. But if everybody was like me, the economy would collapse even sooner than it's going to.

            2. Marshalltown

              Re: Just like Apple

              Subprime loans certainly don't help, but culturally, both in Europe and the US, there is a storm of narcissism. Who the aitch-ee-double hockey sticks CARES what someone else's breakfast looks like? Yet, we are now well supplied with more than a generations worth of users who photgraph plates of food, stand in front of advancing trains to take selfies and generally display the social graces of a three-year old in a tutu chirping "look at me!" and otherwise demanding the attention of all the adults in the room for an hour. And Apple and the rest of the "smartphone" manufacturors enourage this, and it is their target sales demographic.

          2. fidodogbreath

            Re: Just like Apple

            The problem comes when the young woman someone comes into the debt advisory service and they point out that her £50 a month iPhone/Galaxy Note 8/whatever contract is a significant part of why she can't pay her rent. [...] These are the people referred to as "sheep".

            Or just "bad at math."

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Just like Apple

              fidodogbreath - I accept your correction but I have to say that actual on the ground evidence suggests it is mainly young women who succumb to the lure. No sexism intended.

              Though I have annoyed the son of an elderly lady by telling her a second hand Thinkpad and a Moto G4 met her needs better than the Powerbook and iPhone 8+ he was on at her to get. My cynicism meter easily bumps against the stop in these cases.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Just like Apple

                To be fair, it will may well be that son doing the tech support so not much point in advising her to get devices he has no idea how to use.

                Powerbook in 2018 though?

          3. Dr Mantis Toboggan
            WTF?

            Re: Just like Apple

            Essentially you are saying you have more money than sense... Ok then, join the iPhone X queue...

          4. coolcity

            Re: Just like Apple

            Absolutely correct. Those are the people who don't realise that it is costing them over £1200 for the duration of the contract, they see other people with them and think they should be entitled to one too. My wife worked in a Jobcentre a couple of years ago and reckons at least one in three people that came in looking for employment had an iPhone.

            Few people pay cash for these. If they were not available on contract, or able to pay with a credit card, it would make a huge difference to Apple's bottom line.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Just like Apple

          "...a solution that best meets their needs at the price they're willing to pay..."

          Because their needs aren't that high and thus there are logically better devices at better prices that meets their needs.

          The actual reason why these people are "willing to pay" is due to the added perception of being in the in-crowd or the high-profile club. Apple's reputation is driven by snobism nothing else.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Just like Apple

            What "needs" are so high that iPhones cannot meet them but Android can? The need to be able to configure every last thing? The need to have niche features like an IR blaster?

            Beyond stuff like that, the only way you can claim the iPhone comes out short is if you make it a specs battle and decide that categories where Android comes ahead like amount of RAM are more important than categories where Apple comes out ahead like CPU performance. Apple critics used to talk about "non removable battery" as a problem with the iPhone that showed Android's superiority, until Android followed suit. Now I guess they don't consider a removable battery important any longer.

            People who think Apple's reputation is entirely driven by snobism are just insecure. They don't like or understand that people made a different choice than they did, and feel they have to come up with a reason to believe they are somehow superior to those to people.

            1. robin thakur 1

              Re: Just like Apple

              I have no idea why Android devices need so much RAM to run at anything approaching smoothness. The apps on Android (particularly games) also run worse almost without exception and where they are available cross platform, the iOS version is the better one 99% of the time in both performance and features.

            2. coolcity

              Re: Just like Apple

              But many Android phones still have a removable battery.

          2. robin thakur 1

            Re: Just like Apple

            Apple is a year and half ahead of the closest Android competitor in performance terms of CPU GPU and because it is proprietary, that lead will only likely increase, especially with Google's mobile efforts dying. This is what makes it the premium brand, after all a Galaxy Note 8 and Galaxy S 8 are no longer cheap landfill these days, they are 800+ to purchase. Agree on if their needs do not require such powerful devices, but if you want premium, in terms of design, build quality, performance, experience and aftercare, Apple is the correct choice.

        3. This post has been deleted by its author

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Just like Apple

          "Our programmers, engineers, and mathematicians are not ignorant sheeple who blindly pay a so-called idiot tax because they are too stupid to do otherwise; nor does anyone in this building (AFAIK) care about status symbols. "

          Maybe for your firm, but not ever firms.

          Being programmers, engineers, and mathematicians only represent their knowledge, it doesn't separate whether or not they are sheeples.

          I know a lot of people in those classes and higher who blindly pay for it for the status symbols. And even more people pay for it due to 'friends recommended'. But I also know some iPhone owners (about 10%) who pay for it for their essential need. To separate those iPhone owners, all you need to ask is 'why not other smartphones?'. If they gave you a technical reason, they are not sheeples.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Just like Apple

            Would love to hear a valid technical reason to buy iPhone, as a decent android phone does everything an iPhone can and a whole lot more besides.

            I can think of just 1 valid reason. I develop iOS apps... That is pretty much it, for everyone else, a good android device will be more functional, better built and far better value for money.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: a decent android phone does everything an iPhone can

              Great! Every Android phone I've had or used has been a buggy pile of Windows 95 crap after about 3 months use. Obviously these weren't decent Android phones. So where exactly does one buy one of these "decent" Android phones? Are they the ones that cost as much as an iPhone?

              1. werdsmith Silver badge

                Re: a decent android phone does everything an iPhone can

                Total crap being talked about the cost of iPhones. There is no need to pay £50 per month r £500-£600.

                I have an iPhone 7, cost £277. Can pick up a 6 for £150 ish, or cheaper with a screen crack and spend 15 minutes fixing it. Five minutes to replace a battery. If you see someone using an iPhone they might be paying less than your Android cost and they don't have to suffer Android? If these Apple users are sheep, then their Android critics are prime grazing meadow.

                1. coolcity

                  Re: a decent android phone does everything an iPhone can

                  There's no need to pay £50 a month or more, but people do on contract. The wannabes won't buy a decent used phone when they can buy a sparkly new one, oh no...

            2. tiggity Silver badge

              Re: Just like Apple

              Useful if you are in the Apple "ecosystem" - e.g. your photos taken on your phone seamlessly accessible for edit in PotatoShop (or graphics tool of choice) on iPad or Mac seconds later.

              Yes I know there are plenty of bits of software to sync content across devices, but the Apple products do it seamlessly with no effort on the part of the user (and no skill / knowledge of software needed).

              Another useful feature is security updates actually occur (one of the few pixel selling points is actually getting updates as vanilla) which is handy for non tech folk who are not as security savvy / paranoid.

              As is easy way to transfer all your old stuff / settings onto a new phone from Apple cloud backed up old phone (again, yes there are ways to do this on other phones, but not as easily, or as thoroughly)

              I don't use iPhone, cheap and cheerful androids for me. but know people who do for reasons above (non techies, work in visual / creative arts fields)

            3. GormlessGit

              Re: Just like Apple

              "Would love to hear a valid technical reason to buy iPhone, as a decent android phone does everything an iPhone can and a whole lot more besides."

              I can give you one. Updates.

              It sounds silly, like it shouldn't be a feature. But if I buy an iPhone, I know Apple's going to fix BlueBorne, KRACK, etc. with reasonably timely patches.

              With Android, I'm at the mercy of the vendor, and possibly the carrier as well. They may or may not choose to do something about it. They may or may not also choose to give me periodic OS updates. With Apple, I have a guarantee that for a reasonable period of time, I'm going to get new OS releases, point updates, and security patches. I love Android as an OS, but I went through so many broken promises of updates from vendors that I got tired of it. My only alternative in the Android world is the Pixel, which costs as much or more than an iPhone, and doesn't have the same guarantee of quality control.

              My opinion: Google should have kept Motorola. They would have had everything they needed to do it right. Missed opportunties.

          2. robin thakur 1

            Re: Just like Apple

            What do you consider a technical reason? The only reason they need to give is that everybody they talk to uses iOS and iMessage. Sure they and all their friends *could* move the conversation to WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger and the like but perhaps they don't like Facebook that much and they want the iMessage integrated experience. Maybe they use Find my Friends or iCloud Backup or any number of other Apple features which, while it might exist on Android, it doesn't work as seamlessly or as conveniently. This doesn't necessary exclude more technical users if the default simple mode works properly with no tweaking necessary. Reliability is by far the most important factor for me.

      3. StargateSg7

        Re: Just like Apple

        I don't USE NO STEEEEENNNNKKKKING Google or Apple smartphone!

        I use a FULL Mil-spec 810F/G and IP68 super-rugged all-titanium

        TEMPEST-rated, fully-encrypted 4k 6.3 inch phablet actually

        MADE IN CANADA from mostly Canadian-sourced parts!

        Buy Rugged Smarthones all you Stooopeeed-Mucho-Ignoranti-Sheeple Consumers ;-) :-)

        Apple and Google are for Fanbois and Posers....NOT FOR REAL MEN and REAL WOMEN

        with GUTS, GLORY and American-made 8-litre F450 Super-Duty Trucks (aka big lorries)

        and open-carry 30-clip AR-15's !!!!

        Y'all Pussywhips! --- Get a REAL phone not a mere fashion accessory!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Just like Apple

          "I don't USE NO STEEEEENNNNKKKKING Google or Apple smartphone!...."

          You must be feeling DEEPLY inadequate about something, to go to that much effort to compensate..

          I can sympathise with wanting a phone robust enough to beat somebody to death with - which is why a phablet with a heavy duty case is minimum spec ( also helps when trying to reduce forensic traces )

        2. imanidiot Silver badge

          Re: Just like Apple

          @Stargatesg7

          uhhmmmmm, 30-clip AR-15??

          Clips, Magazines, drums, rounds, cartridges, bullets, casings... None of these things are anything like the others.

          You might be thinking of this but even then it doesn't use "clips".

      4. robin thakur 1

        Re: Just like Apple

        Not necessarily true on the phone spec gouging. Apple's own chip designs wipe the floor with Android, which are just off the shelf designs. Hell, an iPhone 7 plus from last year stamps on the current Android flagships, and the iPhone 8 and X are many leagues ahead in terms of GPU and CPU performance and Apps that actually make use of this power.

        Yes, you do absolutely pay more for onboard storage on Apple which is fixed, but it certainly is not as simple as saying the hardware is the same across Android and IOS with different OSs. Androids use Qualcom chipsets which are broadly the same across the devices (barring oddities like Exynos from Samsung on certain regional models) and Apple uses proprietary designs for CPU and now GPU which simply have no peers in the mobile space in terms of performance. Androids ship with more RAM than iOS devices, and perform far worse.

        Therefore, I don't see that the iPhone price is that inflated when a lowly Note 8 or S8 will cost you most of the price of an X when the CPU/GPU on the X (or even the 8) is practically two years worth of performance ahead of it.

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