Car trouble: Keyless and lockless is no match for brainless Cheep-cheep-cheep. I'll try again. Cheep-cheep-cheep. Nope, that didn't work, how about this? Cheep-cheep-cheep. Or… this? Cheep-cheep-cheep. Come on, lock up, you bastard car. Cheep-cheep-cheep. I cut a frustrated figure as I skirted around the bright red vehicle I had rented just 45 minutes earlier at an airport desk …
Since I drive a Nissan I sometimes have problems locking/unlocking the doors. I have one of those keyless systems and if I have my keys near my telephones it creates some kind of force field that inhibits me from starting the car/locking/unlocking the doors..
The other mention of opening/closing all the doors, including the tailgate is also something I have to do occasional. I will driving away and I can hear the doors trying to lock/unlock every few seconds. I have to pull over and do the opening/closing procedure and magically it goes away. ( magically being a synonym for some kind of pressure switch that is not fully engaged...)..
Technology is great, when it works...
I thought Japanese manufacturers were supposed to be ahead of the game in terms of electrics?
You perhaps forget that they are now in some kind of joint ownership deal with Renault. Might have something to do with it?
M.
You perhaps forget that they are now in some kind of joint ownership deal with Renault.
Indeed they are. This results in Renault levels of fragility, and Japanese costs for the replacement parts. The design concept for the two Nissan's we've had was excellent. Comfort was fine, assembly quality was rather good (one Japanese, the other Sunderland). But the component quality (turbos, injectors, fuel pumps, brakes) was patchy, overall reliability poor, and spare parts wholly unreasonable, even for high volume parts like wing mirrors. We won't be buying another Nissan.
When the merger was a done deal in France, I remember hearing a lot of jokes from colleagues saying that Renault would finally learn what the word 'quality' meant.
Looks like it has worked the other way around, and the shoddy craftsmanship of Renault has tainted and infected Nissan.
That's a shame.
> But the component quality (turbos, injectors, fuel pumps, brakes) was patchy
How many of those are made by Nissan, and how many are made by an ODM such as Bosch - and as such would be common to several car brands? Following the Japanese earthquake a few years back, several car brands had to look to other suppliers.
I had a Fiat xri
We were unlucky enough to have had (for a short while) a Fiat Croma. It was essentially the same floor-plan as a Saab 9000 (the design was jointly done by Fiat and Saab).
I used to joke that we needed to drag a net behind the car at all times, in order to catch the bits that fell off. We then replaced it by something even more fragile (a Citroen XM) which was then replaced by a Rover Sterling (with the 2.7v6 Honda engine which was far too powerful for the car frame/suspension..)
I do seem to have picked some.. unfortunate examples of automotive engineering.
Current car is a Honda FR-V which (sadly) refuses to die, even though I want to replace it (t'missus is dead set against replacing something while it's still usable - which is probably why she has a Morris Minor).
You stupid sod cornz 1.
Nose steam cleaned with coffee & Gentleman Regions of trousers now damp, brown and aromatic without a good scare to explain it.
Woman sitting opposite on train also v. unimpressed.
Your work here is done.
"Corrode Rapide" indeed.
How many of those are made by Nissan, and how many are made by an ODM such as Bosch - and as such would be common to several car brands?
As the AC moaning on about Nissan cars: Most of these parts (and I'd forgotten the dampers and clutch plate on the Qashqai, they were faulty crap as well) are most certainly made by third party makers/ODM suppliers. Unfortunately most are made to a Nissan/Renault cost and specification. Just because some ODM can make high quality parts doesn't mean that the car company will use the quality makers, or pay the price for corners to NOT be cut. And both were built before the earthquake. I used to work in the automotive sector many years ago, and I can recall the manufacturer concerned knowingly used poor quality suppliers because they were cheap, or stuck with design faults because it was usually a customer problem that rarely had to be fixed under warranty.
I have the impression that the Nissan-Renault tie up involves far too much of Renault's dubious supply chain practices and French approaches to quality manufacturing
"Just because some ODM can make high quality parts doesn't mean that the car company will use the quality makers, or pay the price for corners to NOT be cut. "
Someone I knew who worked for Lucas was once asked why their electrics were so crappy. So he showed the questioner a stop light made for a Mini - and a stoplight also made by Lucas but for RR cars.
As says the song ,
As long as you will own a car made by Renault,
The way to the nearest mechanic shop you should know!
Had one for 6 months. During this 6 months, this huge pile of crap had always something going wrong. As soon as I fixed something, something else was going down. It did not work perfectly a single day.
"I thought Japanese manufacturers were supposed to be ahead of the game in terms of electrics?"
Toyota have a keyless entry system that just works and can be operated by a complete idiot, but at their typical owner, like us, is aged over 60 you can see why. The Juke looks as if it's aimed at people under 30.
Ahh Toyota keyless system. Do you know what a replacement key fob costs? I do and it's £280. I managed to obtain a new unprogrammed fob, cobble together the necessary software/leads and did the job myself for about half that cost. An interesting aside to this is that there is a guy up north in Leeds who can rest previously programmed fobs, something all the forums I've read say cannot be done (as do Toyota as well of course).
Ahh Toyota keyless system. Do you know what a replacement key fob costs? I do and it's £280. I managed to obtain a new unprogrammed fob, cobble together the necessary software/leads and did the job myself for about half that cost. An interesting aside to this is that there is a guy up north in Leeds who can rest previously programmed fobs, something all the forums I've read say cannot be done (as do Toyota as well of course).
Interesting. Amazon says that replacement (not genuine Toyota) key fobs for Toyotas cost between $16 and $45, depending on the exact model. Genuine Toyota key fobs start at about $50. £280 is way over the top. Programming info is available online from numerous sources, mostly on YouTube.
What problem did you have why you needed a replacement key fob? If it was just giving you static about opening the door, the battery was going flat. I just replaced the battery in my Toyota key fob for $6..25 and less than five minutes with a flat-head screwdriver.
If anyone can program the keys, that includes a thief. Your car is so vulnerable that any insurance you have against theft ought to be invalidated.
Anyone can program the wireless keys, exactly as anyone can pick locks, or make a key that will open them. Very few actually do this, but, as with the wireless keys, there are lots of online tutorials on lock-picking and locksmithing. Anyone can use Aircrack or Wireshark to break into a network, and there are lots of online tutorials on how do use them, too.
Let's see... by your logic, all Toyotas should have their anti-theft insurance revoked: https://www.carandtruckremotes.com/how-to-program-toyota-replacement-keyless-entry-control-remotes.html
and all Fords: http://www.keyfobprogram.com/ford-keyless-remote-key-fob-programming-instructions-1/
and all GM vehicles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8NKVNdhEJc
and all Nissans: http://freeremoteinstructions.com/nissan/
Do you really want me to give more examples, or do you want to concede that perhaps you might want to rethink your position?
My 2008 Ford Fusion Diesel Style insisted a door was open. I discovered that instead of cheap easily replaced "buttons" on the door frame that it has horribly expensive locks with the switch built in.
Except the hatch! It had a barely microswitch in a flimsy housing beside the lever/catch of the lock. A suitable size self tapping screw secured the cheap nasty switch in the correct place. You can hardly even see the recessed screw head in the cavity between hatch and lock mechanism. Seems a bizarre cost saving. I was relieved it wasn't a door lock.
Periodically it won't UNLOCK, except with the key in the lock. I ALWAYS check the door handle on locking in case someone is planning theft by running a jammer. My hearing is not great, so I don't always hear it lock.
While I'm at it, why is there a Bluetooth module behind passenger "glove compartment", BT menu on the radio but it can't hear a BT phone nor voice commands. Removing radio reveals that the mic pins have no wires. I tried electret and dynamic microphones. It behaves as if there is no microphone on internal voice command mode or BT paired (you can hear incoming call on radio, but can't talk back as BT pairing disables phone's internal microphone). Puzzling. Internet searches are not enlightening.
For the win I nominate the hatch on a Porsche 944.
The hatch is big, heavy and flexible, which makes the opening very useful in carrying things unimaginable in any sedan. But getting it to lock and unlock reliably is another matter. My 86 944 Turbo had hatch shocks that were shot; I just used a plastic tube to prop it open when necessary. It would take 3 or 4 slams to get it locked. Only difficulty getting it open was once when it was frozen shut.
Replaced by a 90 944 S2 with working shocks -- magic! Until winter, when it would pop open 1 to 10 blocks after stowing the folding bike back in the hatch and heading home. After about a week or two of this I gave it a mighty slam when it popped open a little further on the way home. It refused to open at all after that.
This hatch has a button in front for an electric release. After a few years Porsche issued a TSB claiming that the button was never intended as a release. They couldn't make it work reliably and gave up.
We had VW Passat with a faulty door microswitch. Caused the doors to security-lock themselves every few minutes – when you press the button on the fob, the doors lock; a little while later, security locks engage so you cannot pull up the locking buttons inside. The faulty switch belonged to that security lock in one door. The security-lock was stealthy enough to engage to not immediately noticeable.
The most noticeable effect was that the battery was flat all the time. Car was in manufacturer garage multiple times for THAT. They couldn't find the fault – BECAUSE THEY NEVER LOCKED THE CAR inside the garage after hooking up the meters.
End result was disabling the remote and central locking (we had to unlock the tank door from within the boot when filling up), re-engaging the remote when selling, and not telling the buyer about it. Because taking the door apart to reach that switch would either be a bitch, or bloody expensive.
I have to say... if a car I bought was doing this, I'd be sending it back or selling it off.
If even the DOORS can't be opened, what else did they do wrong on that car? Doors are literally a £2 RF module with whatever-crap-encryption-they-use, and a relay. It's REALLY hard to go wrong there, and they should actually spend 10 times more time on making sure people can't easily clone keys, not worry about whether it interferes when near a telephone. The blip of an RF fob is literally hundredths of a second, there's no need for it not to respond immediately even if it has to retransmit 20 times.
And the doors locking themselves while I'm driving? No way. I'd be servicing that. What happens if you roll the car and need to get out or (vice versa) you're giving a friend with a kid a lift home and the door just unlocks and they open it (have had the latter happen - a child dropped their toy down the side of the back seat while the aunt was driving and I was in the passenger seat... the child decided they couldn't reach so they OPENED THE DOOR at 60mph and leant down to pick it up... the first I knew was all the door warnings going off, and I looked behind to see empty air and a small child bending out the exit, and I've literally never moved so fast - belt off, over seat, grab child, grab door handle, SCREAM to pullover)? No child locks "because they don't work", a kid that just opens doors / removes belts to get a toy, and an inattentive driver who didn't even know what the beeping meant.
My car - I've never had a problem except that it's very insistent the boot is shut before you can arm the alarm (rightly so, but it takes you a minute to realise why it won't arm - and that you took the shopping out, and though it "looks" shut, it just needs a proper slam to actually be shut), and that you can unlock the damn thing from somewhere around the next town (the RF range is ludicrous - literally my car can be out of sight and it still gets the signal somehow! I tested in a 28 acre site and can lock/unlock it from ridiculous distances). Great if I lose my car at a boot sale (because the lights will flash), but not so great if the keys are in my pocket and unlock button gets pushed.
However, literally, it's never been a problem. If I had symptoms like yours, though, the car would be going back.
"And the doors locking themselves while I'm driving? No way. I'd be servicing that. What happens if you roll the car and need to get out..."
That's exactly WHY the doors auto-lock. Statistics show that without the locks, doors are more likely to get thrown open during an accident, especially rollovers, and an open door greatly increases the risk of you getting thrown out of the car during said rollover, regardless of seatbelts.
"That's exactly WHY the doors auto-lock"
In the 70's my uncle Jack had a Hillman Hunter, before the time of mandatory seat belts. He was driving near his holiday home in Loch Luichart, Scotland, going round a left hand bend, he was leaning on the door when it opened on its own and he fell out. Fortunately given the single lane roads in Scotland in those days he wasn't going too fast so he ended up with only minor injuries but the car was a write-off.
NB Loch Luichart was a wonderful area for walking but take midge repellent if you ever go.
I always thought autolocks were an Americanism to assuage Caucasian anxiety when driving through African-American neighborhoods (of any income level).
Mr D's shenanigans remind of trying to connect my phone to 2 different rental Fords' entertainment system some years back.
The, Microsoft-supplied, system never worked by either bluetooth or audio cable, would refer by voice to inexistent menu entries to "correct settings" and then settled into the routine of notifying me of minor dearths in the 911 emergency call support w my phone, every-effin-time-I-started. It did manage to play FM radio, I'll grant it that.
I believe Ford ditched MS as a supplier soon after. blackberry now.
And the doors locking themselves while I'm driving? No way. I'd be servicing that. What happens if you roll the car and need to get out
On the few cars I've driven with the auto-lock feature, it was easily disabled. In the car I currently drive, it involves holding the manual lock/unlock switch (on the central console) down for a few seconds, whereupon a small beep informs you that something has changed. Modern cars also have a "safety" feature where it is possible to open just the driver's door. I think the idea is that if some miscreant is chasing you, you can get in the car without them being able to climb in through another door.
Getting out isn't a problem as you do not need to unlock the doors from the inside - just operating the handle unlocks them(*). Doesn't solve the problem if emergency services are trying to open the door from the outside, but I believe many / most such cars these days have locks that automatically open in the event of (say) airbag deployment.
As for child locks, the modern method is far preferable to the old method of a lever on the door catch. With the electric locking systems I've driven recently, there's a switch somewhere to engage the child lock, so it can be disengaged by the driver when appropriate. I, too, have had a door opened by a child when driving, though in my case it was about 40mph and quite frankly the child was in no danger at all due to being - you know - strapped into a proper car seat. Any child old enough to know how to take their belt off should be old enough to be taught never to open the door unless it is safe.
M.
(*)unless deadlocked. Auto-lock systems never deadlock doors AFAIAA, but beware of doing what I once did (but realised pretty quickly) of leaving (older) children in the car to pop over the road to a cash machine and without thinking giving the remote (would never leave the key in the ignition) the double-click which causes it to deadlock. If they *had* needed to get out, they wouldn't have been able to.
I also drive a Nissan, I encountered the same sort of thing a few times (in fact Dabbsy got the sound transcription spot-on!). It always turned out to be a door or boot not closed properly. Especially with the boot it was quiet easy to close improperly without it showing. Nevertheless, it's just a question of calibrating how hadr it needs to be closed an I didn't have any more issues after the first couple of weeks.
As to build quality, maybe too early for a definitive answer but so far everything is very solid and reliable
But I fully understand the 'how does stuff in a rental car work?' thing, has happened to me a couple of times.
"I've driven cars with headlights that were operated with ...ox-drawn pulleys...". Ox-drawn pulleys is my favourite system for turning the car's headlights on. I've learned that using a trailer system attached to the back of the car to keep the oxen close is more practical than using really long ropes.
I don't mind the evil-crustacean look that's all the rage for cars at the moment. In terms of physical design, my only problem with the Juke was that the seat feels very low for a short-arse such as myself. When turning left or right at a junction, the opposite wing mirror obscured the view of the road in that direction, and I'd have to ask Mrs Dabbsy to tell me whether any traffic was coming.
I'd have to ask Mrs Dabbsy to tell me whether any traffic was coming.
One of the friends of my youth was out with his missus in the car.
"Are there any cars coming?" quoth he
"No" she riposted. At which point he started to pull out into the road.. Only to slam the brakes on hard when a second or so later she added "but the is a large truck..".
Apparently it missed the nose of the car by inches. It made him more aware of the phrasing of his questions..
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