Knock, knock? Oh, no one there? No problem, Amazon will let itself in via your IoT smart lock To keep thieves from stealing packages, Amazon wants to open your front door so it can drop off stuff inside. The e-commerce and cloud behemoth on Wednesday introduced Amazon Key, a service that allows Prime members in certain cities to surveil and remotely open their homes. Amazon envisions Key as a way for customers to …
I live in a muddy field surrounded by sheep and several hundred square miles of bugger all else, so I tend not to bother locking my door. The sheep are fully aware of this and capitalise on it at every opportunity. However, one of them must have told Amazon, because an item I purchased recently was delivered directly into my hallway, while I was still in the house (but sleeping).
Frankly I find this even more unnerving than that other awful idea where my next-door neighbour is arbitrarily designated as the custodian of all my undeliverables, potentially including some of an extremely personal nature.
Our problem here in the 'burbs delivery people who tap lightly on the door, don't ring the bell and so the first I know of an attempted delivery is the sound of the card coming through the letter slot.
They see no car in the driveway (my wife commutes) so assume nobody is home and act without bothering to determine otherwise.
Not all of them do this but enough for it to be annoying. Having to pursue a delivery person down the drive waving the card at them is annoying.
Even with the car there, there have been plenty of times when I am waiting for a package, and I therefore wait on the ground floor with a laptop (as opposed to my office space two stories up) to ensure I can hear the doorbell.
I then go to make myself a drink and find a note hanging from the letterbox.
Subsequent testing ensures that no, the hardwired doorbell system has not run out of batteries or inexplicably failed...
I think that all delivery drivers have developed either a phobia of, or an allergic reaction to doorbells
Royal Mail / ParcelForce seem to be the worst at actually ringing the doorbell.
I guess it doesn't help that my house seems to be at the end of nearly all delivery routes, where the driver finds it quicker to write the note and deliver that through the letterbox, so they can jolly off home as early as possible, than to actually do their job and deliver the package. More than once now, I've heard the van pull up, seen them filling in the slip while still in the van, and met them as they are walking down the path, slip in hand sans package.
To say it's frustrating is an understatement. Especially when it's a next day delivery for a reason, and time has been taken off work to ensure that I am around to accept the delivery.
I ended up mounting an old smartphone to the peephole of my front door, running an app incorporating a motion sensor and ip stream for the camera. When it makes a detection, it instantly alerts me via my current phone, from which I can check the feed and see who and what is going on.
It also acts as a handy screen for the peephole, so I don't need to lean in and squint.
So basically a free version of what Amazon are flogging, that cost me nothing to implement but an old phone that was picking up dust, minus the electronic lock.
As I wouldn't want to open my front door to strangers while I am away, it's not missing anything I would want.
To be fair, much of the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of delivery companies who squeeze the life out of their "agents" for One More Delivery per day while paying them almost nothing (well, at least that's how it works around here). Which does not excuse the many shitty things delivery-people do, but hopefully at least explains why improving any of it is flat out impossible while those conditions persist.
At any rate, the whole idea of "waiting" for any delivery is blatantly absurd* (you seriously want me to take the day off from my job each time?) - not to even mention complications when somebody IS at home but your package is of a private nature for whatever reason (mind, gutter, out of, please - it could simply be a surprise present. Of course that's not what it is! But it could be...).
There SHOULD be some better way to handle this! Not saying that Amazon's idea is it, though. But I can only cheer any attempt to improve the current disgraceful state of affairs, especially as it becomes more and more clear that traditional shopping is unambiguously dead, and we need some vaguely civilized way to receive deliveries.
* well of course I do order stuff to work instead! Which works mostly ok** with couriers, except the thing is the official postal service does not deliver at all and is only willing to hand over stuff against a matching home address on your state-issued ID. Now guess what happens when you try to buy something second-hand and the inbred hill-billy on the other end ignores your explicit, specially emphasized request to ship the stuff to your work address with one of the many courier firms, not the postal service, at my expense... Yes, hilarity ensues.
** that leaves the minor matter of being unable to receive any international on-line purchases, considering I can't order to work on those due to a) credit card companies often insisting on delivery to the billing address only and b) stuff sent via the same eg. "Deutsche Post" arriving randomly completely out of my control either by a courier firm or the postal service - one of them never finding me home, the other not bothering to actually deliver the actual notice when/_if_ the package does eventually arrive roughly fours-five weeks later from three countries away...
much of the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of delivery companies who squeeze the life out of their "agents" for One More Delivery per day
I've occasionally noticed a delivery driver waiting out in the driveway and not actually delivering anything. When confronted one mentioned that the delivery time window hadn't arrived yet. When I asked if that was being delivered by someone else I got a very odd look ;)
To be fair, much of the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of delivery companies who squeeze the life out of their "agents" for One More Delivery per day while paying them almost nothing (well, at least that's how it works around here).
The most notorious one with the highest number of failures to deliver at our previous address was also the one who paid their drivers the lowest per delivery. To top it off, they would try only once (other parcel services try at least one more time), and their pickup point was on an industrial estate on the other side of the next city, some 30km away if you took the route right through that city's centre, and about 40km if you took a more convenient route. The more blatant excuses included "the driver was told no-one lived there any more" (well, we did, for three years already and for two more after that), and "driver couldn't find the address" (it was a main road into the city centre and the street number was nearly half a meter high, over what was easily seen from the road as being the main entrance).
"To top it off, they would try only once"
It's worth remembering that the sender is the customer and they may only be paying a minimal fee for a single delivery attempt. I use couriers on a daily basis for work, we've used three over the last 10 years and all offer varying prices for varying levels of service, the cheapest usually being 2-3 days, single delivery attempt. Standard service is usually next day, carded if no one to take delivery with a second attempt the next day or unless the addressee makes contact from the first card and either arranges to collect from the depot or gives further instructions for the second attempt, eg will be in certain day.time or authorises leave with neighbour/round the back, in the porch etc.
next-door neighbour is arbitrarily designated as the custodian of all my undeliverables
I used to work for the council one of the duties was taking calls for bins, the amount of delivery people who thought a bin was a good place to store stuff, calls from people asking if you can go through the dump for an item.
the amount of delivery people who thought a bin was a good place to store stuff,
This calls for a SmartBinTM (Internet of Trash?), able to sense non-trash being deposited and, depending on the feature level, just refuses to be emptied into the garbage truck (Bronze), rolls back into the yard away from the Designated Bin Pickup Spot (Silver), or, at the Gold Level, moves into the yard, signals a robot arm to extract the package, then moves back to allow the remaining contents to be collected by the council.
Where this will score, just like all the other social media Internet shite is the generation that believe everything tech is great and do not have any concerns about privacy or the stupidity of what they do.
How often so those idiots post when and where they are going away?
The down side is that it is always someone else's fault or responsibility. The whole Amazon thing is just another addiction with big profits at the top of the money tree, bugger all at the bottom and an endless supply of buyers hitting "Buy".
Quite how your insurance company will assess this when you inevitably get burgled with no broken door or window because the crap lock has been hacked or left open.
The much simpler solution of a box with a lock for which the amazon bloke has the key (or combination) doesn't seem to have been considered.
A physical key can be copied (even by simply photographing it), and needs to be carried by the assigned driver. And if there's more than a dozen or so deliveries per run going into an Amazon Delivery Box, a driver will want a single key that fits all locks, or at best just a few keys. Even more so if there are several hundred or more of those boxes in a city, so that otherwise the dispatcher would need to make sure the right set of keys gets handed out to each driver. And with one key potentially fitting a rather large number of locks they become more attractive to nick or copy.
So the better option appears to be an electronic lock with single-use codes that the owner can hand out to delivery services (not limited to Amazon), with possibly even a confirmation being requested from the owner as the code is entered on the box.
So the better option appears to be an electronic lock with single-use codes that the owner can hand out to delivery services (not limited to Amazon), with possibly even a confirmation being requested from the owner as the code is entered on the box.
Better still, people could support their local stores - who in most cases would pay staff who would be the people who would shop at the places said Amazon customer works at/owns. What goes around comes around, and it's better to make the money go around locally so those businesses you support can in turn support your own business.
so let's see what is right with this idea...
No, can't think of anything. Anyone?
Well, it does provide new ways for those who are both cash-short and morals-short to get teh newshiny a lot easier!
And by reading some of the tech stuff on El Reg, including the article a while back from a physical penetration tester, I can think of a few ways that the package might be able to be used to mess with the home security - but no, of course something placed in the home couldn't possible mess with wireless networked alarm components (eg knocking them offline or feeding guff data) that have the most wonderous IOT security imaginable, with the package being held close to a RFID/NFC/Bluetooth door lock while the communications are taking place.. No, no way at all I could devise and send a package that could be a "package deal" and "turnkey solution" for disabling security.. And I'm not even that clued up on this stuff and already can see how it could be a bit of fun for those so inclined. (my wallet doesn't let me buy the toys I want to teach people about the risks of this sort of stuff :( )
Where the F@@@ in this has Microsoft been mentioned ?????
Some people have nothing better to do with their lives than whine about MS all day - lets try someone else.... hmmm..... leave a kit of lock parts on the doorstep and see if someone can put them together without having to subject yourself to the sneers of the local locksmith community by asking anything they consider to be too simple...... or buy a £1300 lock that they will sell a newer version of every 6 months that you just have to buy.......
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
TEDIOUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Where the F@@@ in this has Microsoft been mentioned ?????
But he's right, though. This absolute disregard of your security needs could have come straight from the offices of Microsoft*.
:)
* I could have mentioned Google in this as well, but that would lower the troll value.
And he's still right. :p
NO, thank you
So polite, and deserving of my upvote.
But here was me thinking "Oi, Amazon! What a fucking stupid idea!, you can piss off if you think you're EVER having that sort of control. I wouldn't trust you fuckers as far as I could throw the tax-dodging lot of you."
But I suppose we're singing from the same hymn sheet, if you can find a hymn book with my colourful language.
I swear I have that hymn book somewhere. Hmmm, lemme see... *shuffle shuffle* "Soli Deo Gloria", nope... *shuffle shuffle* "Misa Criolla", naaah... *shuffle shuffle* "What should we do with a drunken sailor" aye, that be the one...!
Here are some items inspired by the things our driver just nicked from your house...
Or, as in my recent cases - trying to buy an all-in-one printer via Amazon.
The first one (an HP) gets given to the courier and somehow fails to be delivered. Even now (a month later) ius still listed on their tracking site as "out for delivery" Full refund from Amazon
The second one (a Brother, ordered as new) turns up. I open the box and it's immediately obvious that it isn't new. I check and no, it's most definately not new (none of the transport tape/masking is in place, already has paper in the tray). Added to that, it's faulty (registration errors on self-check and, when I get past that, only prints in yellow). Request replacement. Courier turns up to collect, my wife signs to say it's been picked up. One week later, no notification from Amazon that a replacement is being sent so I ring up (having eventually found out how to contact them via phone - I'd left several delivery feedback notes with no action at all) and go through the painful process of getting my money back.
So, I'll give courier + Amazon a miss, thank you. New printer is coming from a local Argos shop..
I think the whole service was inspired by Walmart restocking your fridge.
Somehow I get the impression that this is more about keeping tabs on the drivers to make sure they aren't duffing off most of the day. I can see some interesting conversations back at the delivery hub like "how come it regularly takes you 45 minutes to go from the Johnson's house to the Smith's which is only four doors down?" and "Hmm, given their recent purchases the Johnson's must be expecting another baby."
This is on of the stupidest things that I have ever heard.
The only sensible way that this could work out is if the drivers can only open a secured delivery area in your property, such as a mail box big enough to take a package. A kind of DMZ for your home if you like.
Letting them have a key to your house? I almost do not believe that this is a real story.
Amazon insists those delivering its packages "are thoroughly vetted, with comprehensive background checks and motor vehicle records reviews."
Just like ride sharing companies.
If said driver that enters home and does steal anything they are going to be on camera (as that is part of the Amazon Key system)
Plus I assume the one time pass code would have only been known to the delivery driver.
Would be a quick delivery to jail for the courier in that case
If thieves want to break into your house, a door lock will probably not stop them anyway.
Amazon Locker is probably a better compromise and works well now.
... they are going to be on camera (as that is part of the Amazon Key system)
Lets see, video stored on Amazon's systems, video allegedly shows Amazon employee (or contractor) up to no good, customer claim is going to cost Amazon money. Hmm, so absolutely no incentive for the video to be found to have failed at just the right moment so there's no evidence to backup the claim !
@Jake
My local petrol station has the amazon lockers.
Admittedly i'm hardly sat there all day, but I never see anyone using it apart from people like engineers picking up kit for the day (heating/gas/plumber/ePOS bloke) etc.
They definitely serve a function though, but they don't seem to be any more convenient (to the average person) than either having someone home or simply re-arranging delivery.
Admittedly i'm hardly sat there all day, but I never see anyone using it apart from people like engineers picking up kit for the day (heating/gas/plumber/ePOS bloke) etc.
The problem you have with spotting someone is that it's *very* quick to pick something up. It's only slow the first time when you have to work out how it works, but the next time you'll have your code ready. It literally only takes seconds to feed your code to the terminal, see the right door open and take your delivery.
They have that Amazon Locker thing at the Whole Foods in Sonoma. According to employees there, nobody has ever used it
I've used the system, both for Amazon and for other delivery services and I find it to work rather well, especially when I'm traveling and need a delivery away from home. They are typically stationed in large shopping malls and halls at mass public transport (trains etc) so they're easy to get to.
A good old fashioned lock (among other things) will deter most burglars, burglars look for easy vulnerable targets and if your house is too much effort, if the risk is too high and the reward low/unknown they will usually go next door. Most won’t kick doors in or break windows because that makes a lot of noise and risks attracting unwanted attention. The kind who do kick doors in and do the high stakes violent burglaries, where they tie up the home owners and torture them, have usually been tipped off and either know or believe that there is something valuable enough to justify the extra risk (like a safe). In this event you will be able to thank the Amazon delivery man who cased your joint on behalf of his criminal chums so that they could come back and pay you a visit later.
A good old fashioned lock (among other things) will deter most burglars
When asked if I didn't think my A4-sized dog door that even I could crawl through[1] was a security issue, my reply was that the two large dogs that require that size of dog door was more than compensation.
Even though the dog to worry more about was probably the miniture dachshund that we also had at the time..
[1] The dogs loved it when I did that. Especially when my arms were not through the door and they had unrestricted access to lick my face..
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