Ubuntu 17.10: We're coming GNOME! Plenty that's Artful in Aardvark, with a few Wayland wails

Re: Nice

Use Kubuntu instead. None of that Gnome nonsense.

Re: Nice

Use PCLinuxOS instead.

None of that systemd nonsense.

There you go. =-)

Cheers.

Re: Gun, meet foot.

"What's now to differentiate between Ubuntu and Fedora"

apparently not much. Systemd, and now Wayland.

icon, because, FACEPALM

let's hope Mint and Debian have the decency to NOT go with Wayland. It takes away a specific feature that I find INCREDIBLY useful for a LOT of reasons, particularly with headless systems: It allows me to run a GUI that's hosted on one machine, and displayed on a different one. Works with X11, but _NOT_ with Wayland.

And that's a DEAL BREAKER for ME.

It also works pretty well with X11 if you have different logged-in users on the SAME box.

Let's say you want to run Firefox *NOT* as the logged-in user. Let's say you're doing this for security reasons, and have a sandbox user specifically intended for this, with its own home directory, a cache that auto-purges [along with all history, cookies, etc.] when you exit, and NO group permissions on the login that might be a security problem. You see a somewhat suspicious sight (maybe on facebitch or twatter] that you dont' want a permanent cookie or script tracking you for whatever reason.

OK so you log in with your "special" login using "su - special" (or whatever), then type in something like "export DISPLAY=localhost:0.0" into the command line [or put this in your login script, whatever] and then [after xhost +localhost from a console in the logged-in session] run firefox from the 'su -' shell, and VOILA! You're running firefox on the same X desktop as before, but logged in as someone else. It's NOT going to snoop on what you've got running elsewhere [it can't]. It's not going to start tracking other sites that happen to have the right magic javascript code, or the right invisible graphics on them, or the right 3rd party cookies. It's a completely separate process, running as a completely separate user.

And I _like_ that.

Or let's say I have a VM running that does the same thing. It's a VM on my machine, or maybe on a different machine. Whatever. I log into the VM via 'ssh' then run firefox in a similar way, displayed on MY DESKTOP, except it's running on the VM. Now I can visit those "dangerous" sites [or the ones that track the CRAP out of you], and when I'm done, the history goes BYBY! And I dont' have to close one of the 30 or so browser tabs that I leave open with the logged-in user.

But try and do THAT with WAYLAND! G'head, g'head, try it! Oh, does NOT WORK???

Well that just proves what a piece of **CRAP** that Wayland is, huh!

Yeah, ubu, be like Micro-shaft and TAKE CAPABILITY AWAY. Or worse, change it around completely like systemd does. Yeah, THAT will "fix" things.

At least you had the sensibility to abandon UNITY. And you support Mate installs, which is also good. But, when it comes to X11 vs WAYLAND, I think the choice is CLEAR for true power users. I'll keep my X11 thank you, and give it up when you PRY IT from my COLD, DEAD, FINGERS!

Re: Gun, meet foot.

"What's now to differentiate between Ubuntu and Fedora, which works very nicely with weyland?"

Wait until it merges with the yutani project. Then things will be quite Alien....

Re: Ch-Ch-Changes

I like caja. 'caja' is spanish for 'box'. easy to remember the name that way.

(no, not THAT kind of box)

And 'pluma' (the editor) retains everything I liked about the gnome 2 version of 'gedit'. [gnome 3 gedit is CRAP and irritates me]. 'pluma' is Spanish for 'pen'. also easy to remember it that way.

OK Mate is just _SUPERIOR_ to Gnome 3, that's all. Heh.

(and FreeBSD has _NO_ systemd, nor will it, EVAR)

Re: Ch-Ch-Changes

"Why do they make these changes? Who asked for different right-click menus and toolbars?"

It's the same as the reason behind Windows "Ape" and Win-10-nic. CHANGE for the SAKE of CHANGE!

A bunch of millenial CHILDREN noticed that a whole bunch of us old farts have either retired, or moved on to other things. As a result THEY were left in positions of reasonably high authority. A handful of 'old farts' remained behind, but were easily tricked into believing whatever CRAP the millenials were preaching.

After all, to these millenials, it's THEIR turn now. We old farts are DINOSAURS, sticks in the mud, living in the past, refusing to change, refusing to adapt, refusing to believe that what THEY want to do is so superior to the way things have been done for DECADES.

It's THEIR turn now, and DAMMIT, they're gonna SHOVE IT UP OUR DOWN OUR THROATS, for our OWN GOOD, whether we WANT it or NOT, because, CHANGE is *ALWAYS* better, right? [in THEIR minds it is apparently so]

In the case of Micro-shaft, they went to "the Metro" UWP and a phone OS on the desktop. Unity isn't much better, but THANKFULLY it was ABANDONED by Canonical.

However, Canonical still needs a CLUE BAT when it comes to systemd and Wayland. And so do the project managers over at Debian [hence, Devuan].

Obviously these people have NEVER read Arthur C. Clarke's 'SUPERIORITY'.

So that handful of "old farts" who STILL retain some decisionmaking power should *NEVAR* enable those damned millenial CHILDREN who want all of that "change for the sake of change". Just because they're YOUNG does _NOT_ make them "hip with the latest beat". OK my age is _REALLY_ showing now.

The fact is, THESE CHILDREN do _NOT_ know arses from holes in the ground, CRAP from shinola, etc.. They *FEEL* they do, and their emotions drive them too much. "Old Farts" that ENABLE them are as much to blame, if not MORE. Yeah, it's HARD for some people to say "No". I had to teach that to someone a long time ago who fell for telephone hard-sales too easily. You just say NO, and hang up the damn phone. "What do you say when they start talking about how you need this?" "NO!"

Same with those 2D FLATSO 4" phone UI loving millenials (some call them "4 inchers" based on how they see the universe through a 4 inch screen). They have NO CLUE what's possible, and they're more than willing to TAKE IT AWAY and SHOVE THEIR CHANGE into whatever bodily orifice an unsuspecting end-user might have, simply because they are:

a) arrogant

b) inexperienced

c) full of themselves

d) horribly misinformed

e) short sighted

f) smug

g) living in a bubble world of ONLY others like themselves

h) totally clueless

i) unable to drop their phones for 5 minutes and have a REAL conversation

j) way too influenced by social media

k) caught in the trap of "new, shiny"

and that's all about I can think of at the moment. Add all of that up, and you get your explanation.

You're welcome.