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Drone smacks commercial passenger plane in Canada

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Unhappy

They seek him here...

Be interesting to see if they manage to track the drone pilot (drilot?) down.

If not, the wrong lesson will probably be learned.

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Re: They seek him here...

Hopefully they will be able to recover DNA and/or fingerprints from the wreckage. They may not have the operator on file yet, but they will keep those records for a long time just in case they ever get a hit.

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Re: They seek him here...

Depends on the make of the drone. If it was a DJI Mavic drone, for example, then they'll nab him - all flights are logged to their servers & you have to register the drone to your account in order to fly a certain distance / altitude away from yourself.

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Re: They seek him here...

Drone Pilot = Drodiot or drondiot depending on which rhymes better

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Re: They seek him here...

You operate on the principle he used genuine details.

Surely, anyone on here with a modicum of common-coco never uses their real details for anything like this??

Bank sites, amazon etc yes, you'll have to use mainly genuine details but some site logging where your QUADCOPTER (they are NOT fucking drones) flies is a step to far to shimmy up real, identifialble details...

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Re: They seek him here...

'(they are NOT fucking drones)'

They fucking are.

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Re: They seek him here...

So they can send him a bill, presumably.

No need to fine the dronist, he'll probably expire on his own, when he sees what it costs to fix anything on a commercial aircraft.

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Re: They seek him here...

So, is a model aeroplane a drone? Or a model helicopter?

They both fly, unmanned.

They have names, plane, helicopter, quadcopter, octocopter and hexacopter.

Nowhere there is drone mentioned, used or needed.

As i said, they are NOT "drones".

Their general nomenclature is model aircraft.

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Headmaster

Re: They seek him here...

As i said, they are NOT "drones".

Their general nomenclature is model aircraft.

Vacuum cleaner is not hoover

I.E. desktop shortcut is not Teh Internetz

'could care less' is not 'could not care less'

literally is not figuratively

hackers are not crackers

...cont. p94

Language is usage. Sometimes you have to admit defeat. Not for 'would of' though.

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Re: They seek him here...

I must be honest, when ever I see the word drone I tend to think of things like the General Atomics MQ-1 Predator first and quadcopters second.

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recover DNA and/or fingerprints from the wreckage

I doubt they will do that.

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Re: They seek him here...

"General Atomics MQ-1 Predator first and quadcopters second"

For headlines like "IS commander killed by drone hit" yes, it's most likely not a quadcopter. But for "Drone hits commercial passenger plane" it's going to be a quadcopter, no?

Context is key.

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Bronze badge

Re: They seek him here...

They fusking well are drones. A 'Drone' is an unmanned aircraft, usually remote controlled . The name is derived from the 'Queen Bee' which was used an aerial target. There's no requirement for the drone to have the capability of autonomous flight, surveillance, or deliver ordnance.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: They seek him here...

"General Atomics MQ-1 Predator first and quadcopters second"

For headlines like "IS commander killed by drone hit" yes, it's most likely not a quadcopter. But for "Drone hits commercial passenger plane" it's going to be a quadcopter, no?

Context is key.

See also:

A drone stung me

A drone was destroyed by Captain Picard.

Now, the first is silly, because we don't care about the type of insect, we want to know the species - a "honking great big wasp stung me"

"Drone," as it relates to the media, fits into headlines much better than "non-autonomous remote-controlled model quadcopter". Also, it could have been a hexacopter or octocopter, or a felinecopter.

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Re: Surely...

"Surely, anyone on here with a modicum of common-coco never uses their real details for anything like this??"

But also not have the common sense to avoid an airport/aircraft? Well, I suppose everyone can be an expert at one thing, and nothing else...

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Re: They seek him here...

"drilot"

I think you meant "idiot".

(My spell checker offers "drolly"; no, I have no idea either.)

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Re: They seek him here...

"Surely, anyone on here with a modicum of common-coco never uses their real details for anything like this??"

It appears to be registered to Stringfellow Hawke who lives in San Remo... Lets get right on it.

I find it quite funny when I go into a pub and the wifi auto connects and I get a welcome back Mr FannyFace page in my browser.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: They seek him here...

"

Re: They seek him here...

So, is a model aeroplane a drone? Or a model helicopter?

They both fly, unmanned.

They have names, plane, helicopter, quadcopter, octocopter and hexacopter.

Nowhere there is drone mentioned, used or needed.

As i said, they are NOT "drones".

Their general nomenclature is model aircraft."

Not so. The rules and regulations concerning the operation of small drones and concerning model aircraft are quite different, and involve different procedures and permissions, as well as different government certificates - which vary with purpose and location - as well as being administered quite differently.

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Mushroom

Re: They seek him here...

Meanwhile back on planet reality.

It would take a commercial drone like a crop duster, or the big ones they use for firefighting to bring down a plane (between $8,000 and $20,000, weighing as much as 20Kg or 44lbs). I doubt it was a DJI drone, a DJI drone will stop working if you're anywhere near an airport. Check out http://www.dji.com/flysafe/ . Most drones (anything you could buy at toys'r'us) are simply too light and fragile to do anything more than chip the paint on a prop aircraft. The drone would shatter into a billion microscopic fragments, especially if it hit the propeller. A bird is far heavier and far less fragile, I’ve seen the result of hitting a pelican with a small single prop sea plane. A bent strut and a serious dent. A drone would have to be packed with explosives and very hard shrapnel to even damage an airliner. Sounds like another case of techno-panic. If drones or mobile phones, tablets, laptops…etc, were anywhere near the threat to aircraft the media and government would have us believe, there would be planes falling out of the sky like hailstones. So far, all we've seen is a few startled pilots who thought they saw a tiny dark blur for a nanosecond and the odd powdered drone, or possibly a beetle.

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How is it different

from striking a goose. Or rather geese, which unlike drones tend to fly in flocks.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: How is it different

Geese aren't made of hard plastic, metal and or carbon fiber and usually don't carry LiPo's. They are also not controlled by some dumbass with a remote controll who cant follow basic drone safety rules or practice common sense.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: How is it different

Simple, If you hit a goose or gander, especially if they're flying in a group, you're well & truely flocked.

*Drum sting*

I'll get my coat, it's the one with the pockets full of down.

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Re: How is it different

So would you prefer be hit by a 1 kg drone or 5 kg goose ?

"They are also not controlled by some dumbass with a remote controll who cant follow basic drone safety rules or practice common sense."

And I suppose geese do practice common sense and do follow some basic geese safety rules ?

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Re: How is it different

We have videos of dead birds being tossed into jet engines to make sure the spectacular failure doesn't take out the entire plane.

They could run the same test with drones, but they don't. Obviously, drones shouldn't be anywhere within a mile of an airport in the first place.

Act of terrorism?

Possibly.

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Re: How is it different

Obviously, drones shouldn't be anywhere within a mile of an airport in the first place.

Here they are banned within 5km of an "airport".

But the definition includes the harbour because seaplanes use it and any hospital or office building with a helipad on the roof.

So they are banned from downtown, the entire occupied area of the city, the agricultural land zone, the mountains, the ski resorts and the bulk load terminal stockpiles.

Meanwhile traffic news, commuter and rich-yacht owner helicopters buzz the city all day

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Re: How is it different

"We have videos of dead birds being tossed into jet engines to make sure the spectacular failure doesn't take out the entire plane."

And that knowledge helped US Airways flight 1549 exactly how ?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: How is it different

The drone was goose operated.

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WTF?

Re: How is it different

1. There is no learning incentive to other geese from acting against the offending goose.

2. There is no financial incentive to the regulatory authorities / legal industry for acting against wildlife.

Against drone operators, there is both the potential of a positive outcome, and a financial reward,..

How is this not obvious ?

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Re: How is it different

"And that knowledge helped US Airways flight 1549 exactly how ?"

Don't be an idiot.

If a turbine blade breaks off, which is guaranteed if a solid object enters an engine during operation, you don't want blade chunks puncturing the side of the aircraft at supersonic speeds.

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Anonymous Coward

At the other AC, re: the drone was goose operated.

I'm glad you didn't get your feathers ruffled. Your comment quacked me up.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: How is it different

How is it different

from striking a goose. Or rather geese, which unlike drones tend to fly in flocks.?

Easy. Goose presence is misadventure and hard to control. Drone presence is somewhere between boneheaded stupidity and malicious intent and NEVER an accident because it requires a human operator not to follow clearly laid out guidelines and rules that are there for a very practical reason. Why the f*ck do we have to go through this every flaming time a near miss happens? Do you really need to see bodies on the ground and families ripped apart before you get this?

The idea of risk management is to avoid risks as much as is practical, not run one risk because another one happens to be present. You're telling me you won't slow down your car near a school because kids don't show up much on motorways either.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: How is it different

Meanwhile traffic news, commuter and rich-yacht owner helicopters buzz the city all day

.. who had to pass exams and require annual recertification to operate in that space, and who are kept apart by air traffic control. Entirely different issue.

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Re: How is it different

And that knowledge helped US Airways flight 1549 exactly how ?

It did not take out the entire plane. Engines died, but the plane remained structurally sound and capable of gliding. The rest was sheer luck - having an experienced glider pilot on the controls (*).

So far most pilots have failed to perform the water landing on the Hudson on a simulator.

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Re: How is it different

Those chopper pilots are flying under the direction of the local ATC. Drones (unless they are the professional ones) are not and often piloted by people who may well have had a few beers (or more).

These idiots will more than likely only hasten the day when all drones will be banned unless the pilot is qualified, licensed and insured.

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Re: How is it different

In Germany, you cannot fly them over any residential, civic, commercial or industrial areas (privacy and damage from crash landings - normal aircraft also aren't allowed lower than 500M over residential areas.

Similar limits to airports as have already been mentioned.

Basically, you can fly them over open fields, at model aircraft airports or over woods - within visual range of the pilot.

A new rule this month, all drones over 2 Kg in weight need a special pilots license.

For flying over towns, residential areas etc. for filming etc. you need to get a special dispensation to allow you to use the drone in a specific area at a specific time and date.

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Re: How is it different

"The idea of risk management is to avoid risks as much as is practical not run one risk because another one happens to be present. You're telling me you won't slow down your car near a school because kids don't show up much on motorways either."

Say that you were told that you have 80% chance of dying in a desert from dehydration but only 20 percent from drowning. And the good news is that you're in the desert and you won't be drowning. Feeling better ?

All I'm telling you is that no matter how much you're going to twist your panties something that we have absolutely no control over - birds - present significantly higher risks and eliminating smaller risk while doing absolutely nothing about higher makes absolutely no difference to safety.

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LDS
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Re: How is it different

I guess we need hawks trained to attack drone operators, just like they are used to keep other birds away.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: How is it different

That's whataboutism and you know it.

If you don't know it, then you're even worse.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: How is it different

All I'm telling you is that no matter how much you're going to twist your panties something that we have absolutely no control over - birds - present significantly higher risks and eliminating smaller risk while doing absolutely nothing about higher makes absolutely no difference to safety.

Ah, so because there is already a risk that we can't do anything about, it is perfectly OK to add more risks? Do you really, really don't see the problem here? In that case, I hope you never get a driving license.

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Facepalm

Re: How is it different

The difference is that geese are not sentient and that drone pilot was - errr, actually considering what that irresponsible plank did his sentience is in fact in question.

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Re: How is it different

"Ah, so because there is already a risk that we can't do anything about, it is perfectly OK to add more risks?"

No, if you don't worry about bird strikes (which by the way is a routine daily occurrence at every major airport) then you should not worry about significantly less likely and less damaging drone strike. That simple.

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Silver badge
Trollface

Re: How is it different

From Wikipedia : "On January 31, the plane was moved to Kearny, New Jersey. The bird remains were later identified by DNA testing to be Canada geese, which typically weigh more than engines are designed to withstand ingesting."

Design a high-speed macerator which sits in front of the engine and macerates any foreign object to a fine enough composition to allow the debris to pass through the turbine without damage to the turbine?

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Re: How is it different

Those pilots might have a loss of certificate or license to fly if they flew into the landing approach of a passenger airliner, thus they almost always stay out of those areas.

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Re: How is it different

This is dreadfully embarrassing. As a Canadian, we expect so much from our geese, but they keep getting dumbed-down when they migrate South during the winter.

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Re: How is it different

1. There is no learning incentive to other geese from acting against the offending goose.

Apart from Darwinism. When all geese that like flying through engines have eliminated themselves then the problem will go away.

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Re: How is it different

How long do you think "drone strikes aircraft" will remain a rare occurrence if lots of people decide to ignore the rules and fly their drones near airports? It's a rare occurrence compared to bird strikes because there are rules. If we could get birds to obey rules too, we'd do that as well.

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Re: How is it different

Excellent?

And how is it enforced?

While Das Ordnung is all good, it also needs Das Politzei and Das Gefängnis for the miscreants.

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Unhappy

Re: How is it different

"from striking a goose"

geese have no concept of laws, rules, regulations, etc. regarding controlled air traffic zones. Drone pilots at least have the capability of understanding (and obeying) them, and ignorance being no excuse etc..

I don't know what the potential engine damage inflicted by a drone would cost in repairs, but it's probably more money than most people would earn in a year. That assumes that on descent and landing approach [one of the more critical times during flight] the plane doesn't lose control and crash+burn.

Drone operators should just stay away from controlled air-traffic zones with their drones. We all know where the airports are, you can see [and hear] the planes taking off and landing. Just stay away...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: How is it different

I guess we need hawks trained to attack drone operators, just like they are used to keep other birds away.

Now THAT would be a solution. Hawks trained to work out who operates a drone and taking them out instead of the drone itself. I like your thinking.

I'm not quite sure how they'd take them out (hawk mounted laser, maybe, on account of sharks having some trouble with the whole flying concept, or just carry a suitably large brick, or maybe use swallows and coconuts), but the concept itself is excellent.

:)

(sorry, but that was just too tempting :p )

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