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How bad can the new spying legislation be? Exhibit 1: it's called the USA Liberty Act

USA Liberty Act

The USA is at Liberty to Act - seems clear.

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Re: USA Liberty Act

I am sure that to give it it's full title it is something like "USA Liberty from all Muslims, Yurrupeans and any other foreigners that we don't like Act".

If they can do this to their own people, God help the rest of us then.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: USA Liberty Act

Yes, liberty act means that we have no liberty at all. Just like the patriot act means no freedom for the people.

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Unhappy

Re: USA Liberty Act

Truth is fake-news, freedom is slavery, control is liberty.

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Mushroom

Definition of "liberty"

In this case the thing they're "liberating" is your personal data.

In fact this is what American politicians really mean when they talk about "freedom" in general: the freedom to exploit other people with complete impunity. That includes various foreign, resource-rich countries, as well as their own citizens. Anyone and anything, really, to serve the (mainly economic) interests of those in power.

This is why I refer to it as Freedumb®, because you'd have to be an idiot to believe it.

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Re: Definition of "liberty"

"This is why I refer to it as Freedumb®, because you'd have to be an idiot to believe it".

I appreciate the George Carlin reference. May he rest in peace (although slightly doped from time to time).

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Anonymous Coward

Meanwhile in a crack den beneath NSA headquarters...

Come again?

You heard me son, Santa Claus is a person in interest and terrorist. Every year he violates US airspace, causes financial mayhem to our economy, drops packages containing god only knows what and..

yes?

He's got a list... we want it

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Black Helicopters

Re: Meanwhile in a crack den beneath NSA headquarters...

You heard me son, Santa Claus is a person in interest and terrorist.

And anyone who mentions him is on the list too, that should just about cover the whole population.

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Re: Meanwhile in a crack den beneath NSA headquarters...

Santa's OK, he's white. He just is white, according to Megyn Kelly anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNKRfY6CtMI

No doubt our lot will be carefully looking at this for the next RIPA turd-polishing session.

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Bronze badge

Re: Meanwhile in a crack den beneath NSA headquarters...

You heard me son, Santa Claus is a person in interest and terrorist. Every year he violates US airspace, causes financial mayhem to our economy, drops packages containing god only knows what and..

Don't worry North American Aerospace Defense Command (aka NORAD) keep a close eye on him.

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Re: Meanwhile in a crack den beneath NSA headquarters...

Er, well "Santa Claus" was (fairly) white until recently, but now . . ."Aziz Nikolas'un"?

https://gizmodo.com/turkish-archeologists-think-they-may-have-discovered-th-1819136539

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/noel-babanin-mezari-jeoradarla-araniyor-40565417

deffo NoFlyList + extra visa screening; potential furriner incoming in just 79 days

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Coat

Re: Meanwhile in a crack den beneath NSA headquarters...

He's got a list... we want it

Can I get a list of all the women over 40 on the naughty list?

It's for research purposes. Really. No, really.

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Re: Meanwhile in a crack den beneath NSA headquarters...

Santa Claus is a .... Let's straighten this out right now: The sleigh's ownership is deniable, and it only flies in the dark. It's so stealthy it ranges the world at low-level, yet has never been busted. The bags? Rendition satchels. Toys? Ha!

And just to clarify who Santa works for, (courtesy of a past DNI Christmas party unmasking exercise, to the tune of Santa Claus is Coming to Town (and, I hope, unclassified);

You’d better watch out,

You’d better not cry,

You’d better not pout;

I’m telling you why.

Santa Claus is tapping Your (IP) phone.

He’s bugging your room,

He’s reading your mail,

He’s keeping a file

And running a tail.

Santa Claus is tapping Your phone.

He hears you in the bedroom,

Surveils you out of doors,

And if that doesn’t get the goods,

Then he’ll use provocateurs.

So — you mustn’t assume

That you are secure.

On Christmas Eve

He’ll kick in your door.

Santa Claus is tapping Your phone.

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Do they seriously think that giving these Constitutional Abridgement Acts newspeak names fools anyone? What am I saying? Of course they do ... and they're right. The Departments of Love and Peace managed finagle an act called PATRIOT (the first time I heard of it I assumed it was The Onion).

They can even get away with the obvious doublethink implicit in contending that metadata is simultaneously innocuous and an essential investigative resource. It cannot be both! If it were truly innocuous it would, by definition, be utterly useless and there would be no point in collecting it. How in the name of Zeus can the voters be so sanguine about evisceration of the 4th Amendment and yet get so agitated when it is pointed out that the Militia clause means the 2nd only provides for the National Guard to possess firearms? Do they seriously think that owning a Glock is a greater guarantee of liberty than shredding this sort of Orwellian legislation?! What am I saying? Of course they do...

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Do they seriously think that owning a Glock is a greater guarantee

A single Glock, no. 10 Glocks, absolutely yes.

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Re: Do they seriously think that owning a Glock is a greater guarantee

I hate guns and I don't like American love of guns, but you might have a point

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Anonymous Coward

re fools anyone

I don't think it fools anyone, and I don't think it's meant to. It's the old dance, only that both the dancers, and those being danced on, no longer bother to pretend it's fine and subtle and the tune ain't bad. If it's window dressing, it's of the tackiest kind, but no-one bothers to even pretend it's meant to be pretty. We know we can fuck you, and you know we can do nothing about being fucked, so yeah, fuck you (citizen), with liberty.

...

but then, the resentment builds up, even if slowly, and leads to revolution / mob rule, where even worse scum comes up to rule. Unless the minor issue of revolution has already been taken care of? I might live to find out.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Do they seriously think that owning a Glock is a greater guarantee

you might have a point

Now I know why Americans like Powerpoint: bullet points..

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Anonymous Coward

Re: re fools anyone

"but then, the resentment builds up, even if slowly, and leads to revolution / mob rule, where even worse scum comes up to rule. Unless the minor issue of revolution has already been taken care of? I might live to find out."

Are you referring to November 2016?

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Mushroom

10 Glocks won't help you if Uncle Sam decides to drone you. Or even if Uncle Sam is actually trying to drone someone else who just happens to live near you, or maybe you're going to a wedding and they decide to drone someone who might be there (it's always one of the in-laws that ends up causing trouble right?), or perhaps your name just sounds a bit like some guy that Uncle Sam thinks is Bad mmkay and yup, droney for you!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: re fools anyone

I'm not referring to any particular event recently, other than the general belief (of mine), that slow-boiling a frog generally works (we're talking about humans) - until a certain point. And, every now and then, in the course of history, the frogs make a leap for it, and bite madly around. But then, maybe we've been already made toothless (by technology?), and we're not frogs but just sheep, to be fed, regularly shorn (always for their own good!) - as long as they stay within prescribed area of sheep behaviour (chew, shit, get shorn, repeat).

Not that I endorse froggy violence (disclaimer from under a tin-foil hat duly noted, I hope), because violence is generally blind and instead of correcting the wrong, it just hurts innocents.

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10 Glocks won't help you if Uncle Sam decides to drone you.

Drones and missiles are expensive. Much cheaper to park a Vietnam era APC on the lawn. No American (legally) owns a weapon capable of defeating that so no American owns a weapon even slightly useful for "defending Liberty". Perfectly adequate for murdering police and civilians though, or (preferably) suicide.

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LDS
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Especially since police was allowed to get surplus military weapons and vehicles.... so you have a good chance of being heavily outgunned - and you can't anyway fire more than two handguns at a time (and despite movies, you would probably just waste ammunition).

Anyway, I don't know where Americans got this hamster idea that piling up guns in their den will make them safer against the evil government. Do they believe they will still have to face the same troops of a quarter of millennium ago??

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Yes, yes, but you would go down wrapped in your Gadsen flag muttering imprecations about "cold, dead hands" and they would rename Hayseed, Nebraska as "Thermopylae" in your honour and your name would live on through eternity as you whisper from the ageless stones and .... damn, sorry, I seem to have been mugged by a comic book...

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LDS
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Actually Spartans at Thermopylae were more heavily armed than Persians, and also highly trained and skilled. They were the real elite soldiers of the time. One of the reasons they could resist so long was the Persian soldiers used light armors and less effective weapons against the heavy Greek armor, while being not protected so well from the Spartans' weapons.

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"10 Glocks won't help you if Uncle Sam decides to drone you".

Funds permitting:

S-400

S-300

Pantsir

More and more countries are getting the message.

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Re: Do they seriously think that owning a Glock is a greater guarantee

"A single Glock, no. 10 Glocks, absolutely yes."

The only problem with that is you can only use a max of two of them at once.

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Alert

Re: Do they seriously think that owning a Glock is a greater guarantee

I can understand your viewpoint but remember that whatever freedoms you have now where more than likely secured for you by the use, of or threat of, a weapon at some point in the past.

That said the American obsession with guns is a bit disturbing, but it is not the guns at fault. One of the core issues is the culture that glorifies and promotes violence as an acceptable first response to any disagreement.

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2nd Amendment

"2nd only provides for the National Guard to possess firearms".

That is subject to some significant debate. Further, the Supreme Court deemed it a private right to ownership. The NG isn't really a militia, it is a standing army of the State. Also, at the time the term 'well regulated' meant working, properly configured, or well designed. It did not mean subject to a high degree of government regulation. Also, a militia often meant all free males between 6 & 60 in the county or town. Personal arms were indeed kept in the home to allow for quick mustering and prevent there being seized by an invader. Some jurisdictions required eligible persons to purchase a weapon & ammunition.

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Clearly many people misunderstand the point of owning guns and ammunition. Put aside the madmen who lose the thread, suffer a breakdown, and go postal. The point of the guns is to ward of the "hot burglars," the home invaders, the small crowd with torches and pitchforks....long enough to protect my pile of 1 oz gold coins. These are invaluable: Once the gov decides to turn off my electric money and internet service, only the gold coins will allow me to deliver to my political representatives a convincing argument for saving my a@s.

I note, further, that the Taliban are about to get their government back. Why, even the New York Times found that a pair of gatling guns effectively protected their offices from a murderous hoard of thieving peasants in 1863. I close my case by recalling that all the SWAT teams with APCs, and many regular infantry, simply aren't willing to move aggressively, so there's a real chance I can deliver the gold coins.

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Please don't conflate gun and privacy rights like that. Some of us support both. The real problem is the oligarchy, which controls which candidates are presented to us, and what propoganda we are presented with as news. We really have no say in our government anymore.

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Afghanistan seems to be able to resist our occupation fairly well with half-century old technology. In fact, name a war the US has truly "won" since WWII. Oh sure we may defeat a standing army, but quelling an armed population seems to be near impossible for us.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Do they seriously think that owning a Glock is a greater guarantee

When people hear that I own 10 cats, they call me a crazy cat lady - but when I tell them I own 10 AR-15's, they run away.

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Big Brother

Some WWII refugees welcome

It wasn't just the rocket and nuclear scientists that the US government worked very hard at importing during and after the war. The FBI had an entire group of people who had been involved with the collection and correlation of information on people from European countries. The OSS and DIA were formed with a number of people who had worked for other countries gathering intelligence on their citizens.

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Re: Some WWII refugees welcome

A lot of the Japanese "doctors" and scientists were rehomed, even after the vile shit they did to the Chinese.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Some WWII refugees welcome

"..the vile shit they did to the Chinese."

and just about anyone else unlucky enough to get captured.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

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Seems familiar

“War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.”

― George Orwell, 1984

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Big Brother

Re: Seems familiar

Anyone here see a documentary called "A good American"?

See here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4065414/

You can (still) see it on-line.

The whole explanation is there.

Cheers.

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Re: Seems familiar

'Anyone here see a documentary called "A good American"?'

Is that a dead American?

Just asking.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Seems familiar

Interesting documentary. I'm pretty sure the UK is already running our version of thin thread, unless of course idiots are in charge there as well.

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Mushroom

good?

Not quite-- the only happy American is a dead American.

"But happier than both is he who has never been, who has not seen the evil that is done under the sun."

--The Teacher

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This post has been deleted by its author

"Freedom doesn't mean what you think it does"

Isn't it just another word for "nothing left to lose"?

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Re: "Freedom doesn't mean what you think it does"

Actually, it's "slavery" that means "nothing left to lose".

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Big Brother

The meaning of words

The USA Liberty Act is to liberty as the Australian Liberal Party is to liberalism.

The US takes another step towards (or further into - fuhrer into?) totalitarianism.

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Re: The meaning of words

A bit like a republic vs. a people's republic. Like jacket and straitjacket...

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Re: The meaning of words

"The USA Liberty Act is to liberty as the Australian Liberal Party is to liberalism."

... or, for that matter, as the Australian Labor Party is to labour / socialism.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The meaning of words

and, as we used to say, in the good old commie East: like a chair, and electric chair.

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Re: The meaning of words

Very similar to the CAN-SPAM act which pretty much allowed exactly what it says in the title.

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Re: The meaning of words

All you really need to know about the USA:

* Its constitution forbids "cruel or unusual punishment";

* It executes people with the electric chair, gassing, or injection of drugs - all of which cause dreadful pain, often for a long time, before death. (When there are perfectly simple ways to knock someone out instantly so they never know what hit them).

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