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White House staffers jabbed with probe over private email use

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Am I paranoid?

I am wondering if the attempt to get hold of

"details on any staffer who has used their personal email for government duties, or text messages, or phone-based message apps. In addition they want the names of anyone who has used encryption for personal contact."

is not so much because of the private email nonsense, but rather because there might be some evidence of Russian meddling in there somewhere.

As far as a solution goes, if the original miscreants had been prosecuted, then we might not be where we are now, but laws are for the little people in the land of the free it would seem.

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Re: Am I paranoid?

Or maybe because "where there's smoke there's fire." And even if there's isn't, it sure helps throw Trump off his game, amirite?

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Re: Am I paranoid?

RE: "amirite?"

Oh, absolutely. alt_rite even...

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Re: Am I paranoid?

"it sure helps throw Trump off his game,"

Wait!

Trump has a game?

This isn't just some random crap coming from an imbecile?

Wow.

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Re: Am I paranoid?

He's getting a whole lot done while you and yours distract each other laughing about how stupid he is.

Who's the imbecile again?

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Re: Getting a whole lot done?

A list please.

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Facepalm

Re: Getting a whole lot done?

A whole lot done - in 140 characters or fewer...

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Re: Am I paranoid?

> "He's getting a whole lot done while you and yours distract each other laughing about how stupid he is.

Who's the imbecile again?"

The imbecile would be the ones swallowing his 140 character brainfarts as gospel.

You, in other words.

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Re: Am I paranoid?

Is someone maintaining a list of what the Trump fans believe he's "getting done"? Yes, he's undoing a lot of Obama's executive orders but what actual forward progress is being made? If his goal is simply to roll back everything to the state it was in when Bush left office in 2009 because his followers hate the idea Obama was president and want to erase him from history, I hope that doesn't include the economy.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Am I paranoid?

"Trump has a game?"

It's golf isn't it, he plays that game a lot.

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Re: Am I paranoid?

Who's the imbecile again?

You, it seems. Again.

Your ongoing rants in favour of the tweeting tangerine, the biggest threat to this planet since adolf et al, are mindboggling.

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Re: Getting a whole lot done?

280 chars or fewer on the way apparently

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Am I paranoid?

RE " the biggest threat to this planet since adolf et al"

TECHNICAL FOUL

PARTIAL GODWIN

LOSE A TURN...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Am I paranoid?

@Big John

You mean Trump so far has:

- failing to disconnect himself from his business interests

- the cases of foreign governments using the services of Trump facilities as backhanded lobbying

Shall I keep on?

I have the feeling every morning when he looks in the mirror he thinks - 'I have managed to fool them again'

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WTF?

Re: Am I paranoid?

@Anonymous Coward with the CAPS writing

do you need a new keyboard?

has your shift key gone stuck again?

maybe capslock is on but you didn't notice?

or maybe you are shouting?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Am I paranoid?

He's getting a whole lot done while you and yours distract each other laughing about how stupid he is.

Who's the imbecile again?

@BJ, given what you just typed it might be you, unless by "getting things doen" you mean the destruction of US cohesion and place in the world.

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Re: Is someone maintaining a list

As John clearly cannot think of a single positive thing Trump has achieved since being elected, it is clearly down to us. I found a list of Don's promises.

1 "Build a wall along the southern border": The only wall building to happen since Donald became president has been construction work arranged while Obama was president. Trump has pencilled in some funding for the 2018 budget.

2 "Make Mexico pay for the wall": Trump has given up on getting payment in advance from Mexico. No-one has voluteered to loan the money until Mexico pays up. I think this is a fine opportunity for Donald to put is own money where his mouth is, and demonstrate that he has confidence in his ability to talk Mexico into paying him back.

3 "we're all going to be saying 'Merry Christmas' again": I have seen no executive order to that effect, but saying things like primate range and noble yawning has been banned. Happy Saturnalia.

4 "Get rid of Common Core": Trump has appointed Betsy DeVos as Secretary of Education (only just - required a tie break from Pence). She said she intends to get rid of Common Core. There are many articles on the subject, but I could not find any that mention progress.

5 "The Environmental Protection Agency might also disappear.": Trump has near enough delivered on this promise. He has put Scott Pruitt in charge and frozen spending on EPA grants.

6 "Get rid of Obamacare and replace it with something 'terrific'": In progress. The house of representatives passed the American Health Care Act of 2017, which partially repeals the Affordable Health Care Act. The AHCA2017 has yet to get passed the senate. A majority in every state is against AHCA2017 and the fact that it has got this fair make 'Terrifying' a fair description.

7 "Knock down the regulatory walls between states for health insurance". I found no evidence to support progress on this.

8 "Rebuild the country's aging infrastructure -- especially bridges and airports that look like they belong in a third-world country -- for one-third of what the United States is currently paying for such projects": Trump asked for and received a wish list of projects. The only funding to materialise so far is an EPA grant for water emergencies (see note 5).

9 "Save Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security without cutting benefits": Internet searches show Trump has cut benefits. Veterans benefits show particularly prominently. Republican excuses say the benefits cuts are not core parts of Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security. To avoid argument, say they are right. They have just admitted to benefit cuts so 9 is a big fail for Donald.

10 "Defund Planned Parenthood": This is a part of AHCA2017 (see note 6).

Score so far 2 fails, 4 no progresses, 1 wait till the winter solstice, 2 making progresses and one success out of the first 10. Anyone want to take the next 10? (Number 17 is fun.)

.

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Re: Am I paranoid?

> It's golf isn't it, he plays that game a lot.

and still has to cheat!

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Re: Am I paranoid?

Be fair, you forgot his destruction of new green technologies so that he can keep unwanted mines open.

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Re: Am I paranoid?

"Trump has a game?"

Yeah, Top Trumps!

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Hope springs eternal

Why do I get the impression that "government business" as a term is being stretched way out, to cover ordinary personal emails by a lot of Trump staffers? Well, perhaps it's the old "make 'em play defense" ploy. Hey it always worked before! But that was when the left controlled the narrative. Now it's just a weak, near pathetic attempt to lash out at their antagonists.

Don't get me wrong tho, if all these White House staffers and the president's son really are breaking the law, they should all be punished. Only, that has yet to be shown as fact. Right now it remains just vague charges without real substance to back them up.

I mean, I doubt they were actually sending classified stuff thru these emails, a`la Mrs. Clinton. After what she had to do to cover it up? And losing the presidency in the bargain? They'd all need to be dumb as posts, and that's not likely. No, this will end up like all the other supposed 'scandals' they've thrown at Trump, unable to obtain any traction at all, due to lack of reality.

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Re: Hope springs eternal

RE: "I doubt they were actually sending classified stuff thru these emails, a`la Mrs. Clinton"

Why do you doubt it? They were using "Signal" and "Confide", two services designed to avoid leaving an audit trail of messages, which suggests they were deliberately seeking to avoid creating a record of what they were doing. That gives me enough confidence to doubt your doubts, though since there is no record of what they did, suspicion is all I have for the moment. You will excuse me though, I'm sure, if I don't accept, or trust, the word of a politician that they did no wrong; Honest, Guv!

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Re: Hope springs eternal

'Why do I get the impression that "government business" as a term is being stretched way out, to cover ordinary personal emails by a lot of Trump staffers?"

Based on your posting history, I'd hazard a guess that it's because you can only see out of your right eye.

If I understand your argument correctly, they can't be doing anything wrong because:

1) They're not Clinton.

2) They'd have to be stupid and they're not because...reasons, foremost of which is that they're not base, weak, stupid left-wing people, oh no! They're noble, strong, intelligent right-wing people!

From what I can tell, based on the various reports I've read, Kushner's admitted that some emails have been to personal accounts but he's forwarded any government business to his official account so he's presumably in the clear and the investigation will be concluded swiftly.

However, given that this has happened at all (official business to private email), especially after the Clinton debacle, then it seems sensible to have a review to check that rules are being obeyed and also to remind people that it's probably better not to allow this to occur in the first place. That is what is now happening.

Oh, and your final paragraph is a colossal straw man. The issue is not about the sending of classified information. It's about the use of private email for official government business and how that may conflict with the Presidential Records Act and the Federal Records Act if they don't ensure those emails also get sent to an official account so that they can be preserved.

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Re: Hope springs eternal

> "They were using "Signal" and "Confide", two services designed to avoid leaving an audit trail of messages, which suggests they were deliberately seeking to avoid creating a record of what they were doing."

Again, you assume they are incredibly stupid because that's the only way your theory makes sense. If they were deliberately breaking the rules, they would have to be flatliners to think such obvious methods were a good idea. Occam's Razor says that they just wanted simple privacy for their personal emails. And for good reason too, considering that their opponents have cast aside all rules, ethics, and morality in their desperation. Witness the Muller 'investigation,' now far, far afield from anything to do with Russia, breaking into the homes of cooperative witnesses simply to terrify and humiliate them, in a very Gestapo/Stazi manner.

So yes, I do doubt it. What's sad is, you don't.

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Using personal email for White House business does not require stupidity

If against all probability a DA actually goes as far as filing charges, they will simply fire him. Firing a DA (or seven) for purely political reasons is legal and is a tactic that has worked well for the Republicans before.

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Re: Again, you assume they are incredibly stupid

Twitter isn't an assumption.

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@Big John

Finding out whether anyone is really breaking the law is why you conduct an inquiry, which is what they're doing now. I know you'd prefer it be a secret inquiry, so there you don't have to read headlines about the Trump administration using personal emails, but republicans didn't give Hillary that option - she was convicted of treason by Fox News before any facts were known.

As for all the scandals being "supposed", Mueller supposedly starts interviewing White House staffers next week (leaked by the staffers, not by Mueller FYI) so I don't think you'll have to wait much longer before they are no longer "supposed" and indictments start flying.

And no, Occam's Razor suggests they were trying to hide illegal activities. Same reason they constantly lied about not having any contacts with Russians, when it turned out just about everyone in the campaign met with them. The only major figure not proven to have done so is Trump, which he probably did believing others would take the fall for him. We'll see how that goes when Manafort and others are indicted - especially since he's likely to face charges from the state of New York which a president cannot pardon, so he's likely to eventually rat out all the players including Trump.

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FAIL

Re: @Big John

And, after all the attacks on Clinton the Trump administration have no excuse for being anything other than squeaky clean. Doing wrong ( to whatever extent) is one thing. Following in their tracks after you've criticised them for the wrong doing is a whole nother kettle of fish altogether.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Hope springs eternal

Again, you assume they are incredibly stupid because that's the only way your theory makes sense

No, @BJ, his theory makes sense from the perspective that there is yet NOBODY of that administration that has shown a shred of trustworthiness and ethics so they don't get the benefit of the doubt whereas they were not willing to extend it to others.

In the interest of balance, it should now take at least 10 separate, sequentially triggered Congressional investigations to ensure they're clean (which I don't think they are, but that's what an investigation ought to prove - surely they don't have anything to hide?), which means they'll be still under investigation during the elections in 2018.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: @Big John

And, after all the attacks on Clinton the Trump administration have no excuse for being anything other than squeaky clean

LOL, that's so charmingly naïve, just as if they haven't been using a different set of rules for themselves from the beginning. In a fair world, yes, but this lot rules by extremism, demagoguery and division so you can forget about the whole idea of balance, logic and justice - that's just not in their DNA.

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Re: @Big John

I think AC you miss the point. Just because Trump's crew won't be squeaky clean doesn't mean they shouldn't. They have no excuse is what I wrote.

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Re: @Big John

"Finding out whether anyone is really breaking the law is why you conduct an inquiry, which is what they're doing now."

This statement encapsulates what wrong with the modern Left. Legitimate inquiries start with actual evidence of wrongdoing, not with dossiers concocted by one party to smear an opposing party. THIS inquiry reverses that principle, allowing any kind of wild accusation to justify a full-on witch hunt.

BUT, only if the target is a Republican! Real criminals like Hillary Clinton are to be given a free pass, because Democrats just don't do wrong things apparently. Whenever it appears that way, it's really just 'false consciousness.' ;-|

This Mueller thing is utterly partisan and dirty as hell, and all of you know it, altho very few of you will ever admit it.

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Re: Free pass

Hillary got her "free pass" straight from Donald. Is he a Democrat too?

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Devil

Meanwhile

The government email server is down yet again! Don't worry, we've sent them an email to let them know.

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Let's make this real and not baked BS

It's unavoidable for some high ranking government officials to conduct some business via their personal communication channels once people start the communication to them from it. What's important is finding out if these are isolated incidents or a trend, and whether or not the information is classified. If it's just isolated incidents, then quit busting on it; especially since there's no doubt those in Congress use personal emails and SMS messages all the time for official correspondence with other government officials.

I'm not a huge fan of Trump (I'm not registered with any political party), but it's becoming ridiculous when Democrat's keep hurling charges and accusations as soon as one loses steam. Yeah... the RUSSIAN PROBE is really getting old. No proof yet people keep yapping. Lemmings, eh?

What has Trump done so far... are you kidding? This shows you're a lemming who just repeats rantings.

Among other things, he's increased military funding across all colors of money.

He's also returned many of the promises back to the veterans, and is ripping through the VA; finally removing people who shouldn't be there.

He's gotten China and Russia to back the USA on UN Resolutions.

He's stopped many atrocities happening in Syria, and mellowed out that government.

How soon so many things are forgotten.

You don't have to like him or agree with him, but don't sit there griping about nothing getting done. It only shows you're being an ignorant parrot.

It's so easy to repeat insults and be angry.

It's a lot tougher to do some research and make yourself better and smarter than you were yesterday.

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Re: Let's make this real and not baked BS

" conduct some business via their personal communication channels once people start the communication to them from it."

Err no. Surely, if an official of any govt anywhere is getting gov-business related emails on a private address it's because they are being contacted in a personal capacity by people who know them and have their personal address.

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Re: Let's make this real and not baked BS

Emails: This is not anger it is ridicule. I was highlighting the irony, but as that is too subtle I will switch to explicitly labelled sarcasm: [sarcasm]gwb43.com involved the deletion of tens of millions of emails, which were relevant to an FBI investigation, but that was OK, because they were Republicans and [/sarcasm] any evidence of wrong doing was deleted.

Asking for a list of Trump's achievements while in office was a genuine request. As John did not have such a list to hand I found a list of election promises and researched progress on the first 10. I focused on the promises to avoid arguments about whether any particular activity is a good or bad idea. By doing the research I found more activity than I expected and learned more about what is happening.

I thank you for stepping up and providing your list. Researching the ten items from the beggining of the list of promises took time and I would like to benefit from the time you must have spent checking your facts.

Increased military funding: This is in fact counter to election promise 52 as Trump's superior negotiation skills will cause a 20% drop in budget. Decisive evidence that will convince even the most determined Trump apologist will be required to convince people that promise 52 is dead. I will give you 23 as the US has had enough conventional weapons to take on the rest of the world for decades. The problem is that today enemies are mixed in with friends, allies and neutrals. Conventional weapons do not discriminate and the collateral damage creates more enemies. Trump has election promises to deal with that. Perhaps you can post evidence of progress on the relevant promises (12-16, 27-31, 36 and 37).

Veterans: Firing 500VA staff is well documented, but is only part of promise 38. I would welcome evidence supporting the rest of 38. Also evidence for 39 and 26 would be appreciated (the money for Veterans bit, we know he ordered dropping the really big bomb). You are welcome to provide evidence that Trump made and kept other promises to veterans even if he had to be hounded relentlessly on twitter to make it happen.

UN resolutions: Which ones? There are 53 so far this year. Was this an election promise? Are Russia and China backing the US or is Trump backing Russia and China? Please provide the evidence that you uncovered during your research so we can all benefit from understanding this issue.

Syria: The relevant election promises are 14, 16 and 25. I think some flexibility is called for here as some promises predate Obama bombing Syria (Trump thought that would be a bad idea and that the US should step back and let the Russians sort it out). Since then Trump has bombed Syria and now the Russians are bombing Syria. This is an issue where I have a lot to learn and I would welcome your evidence that conditions in Syria are improving because Trump dropped bombs on them.

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Hypocrisy in American politics? Consider me surprised and shocked to a degree appropriate for this news.

Which is to say, not at all.

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why

why is she in the news at all? can she just die already.

All politicians are dirty, she is politically dead, and will be remember as the facts are. No amount of finger pointing by her will erase all the evil things she's done.

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Re: why

She is in the news because journalists asked her to comment on the current Trump administration scandal. After all the congressional hearings and FBI investigations, she is an expert on how the Federal Records Act applies to email. She is the most obvious expert to consult after someone is caught (by others) conducting white house business with private email.

Take care when calling all politicians dirty. Republicans are politicians, and everyone knows they are whiter than white, can do no wrong and when they are caught doing wrong it is just dead Hillary pointing her finger because Donald broke election promise 17.

I am curious about all the evil things she has done. Does that include using encrypted email apps with automatic deletion? A list would be helpful.

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Re: why

I am curious about all the evil things she has done.

Have....you not been paying attention? I mean, seriously, are you truly this clueless? You are talking about the single American politician whose name has come up in more scandals in the last decade than any two others. Whether you believe she was guilty or that she was just being targeted by political enemies feigning ignorance is silly.

Personally I believe the woman to be a corrupt sociopath, but I also consider "corrupt sociopath" and "professional politician" to be almost synonyms. Not that they're all sociopaths. Just the successful ones.

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Re: why

With so much fake news around I hoped to get some help selecting the right stories to investigate. As you will not select some issues, I will pick one. Despite Edgar Welch's intense belief and armed search, he could not find a paedophile basement under Ping Pong Pizza. It is almost as if believing things doesn't make them true.

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Hypocrisy is the world's #1 philosophical framework. The trick is to shout "hypocrisy" first.

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