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Attention adults working in the real world: Do not upgrade to iOS 11 if you use Outlook, Exchange

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Hashtag

Fail

Or a deliberate attempt to lock out the competition?

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DOS isn't done, until LOTUS won't run.

No text

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EBG

Re: Hashtag

My immediate thought as well. In the end, we'll be presented with a partitioned ecosystem.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Hashtag

Surely if the IOS 10 and earlier applications run and the IOS 11 fails, you blame the thing that has changed rather than looking for conspiracies?

Or does that mean taking of the rose-tinted glasses that skews the beauty of your chosen device?

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Anonymous Coward

Works fine here

We use Office 365 at work for email and calendaring and it works fine on IOS 11. I installed it yesterday and haven't run into any interoperability snags.

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Re: Works fine here

Works here too. We use Exchange 2016 on Windows Server 2016 and it's working fine.

IOS 11 on an iPhone 7.

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Meh

Re: Works fine here

"We use Office 365 at work for email and calendaring"

You have my pity...

In the mean time, looks like the iOS 11 bug is not a universal problem. This is probably why it ended up in the release. "Not enough end-user beta testing"

[still needs fixing, though]

I have to wonder if the reason for fail is (another example of) Micro-shaft NOT following the RFC's...

(the MSDN web server didn't properly support decade(s) old RFC requirements for downloading a 'byte range' until early this year, meaning that people with slower connections would NEVER be able to download, following the [smart?] decision to obliterate the "special" ActiveX control that COULD do this... so now I can 'hack' it and use wget to get anything >1Gb in size, which I have - anyway, that's ONE recent example of "we're microsoft, we invent our OWN standards; world, follow us")

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Re: Works fine here

Its win win for El Reg, poke fun at Apple and simultaneously incense the readership with half truths & distortions.

It works. It's an excellent business model,remember their symbol is the Vulture.

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This post has been deleted by a moderator

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Re: Works fine here

Loses them credibility though. I used to come here because the articles were a fun take on serious topics - and with enough intelligence behind them to challenge our thinking. These days I still come here for the fun, but the intelligence is frequently lacking.

Case in point. This 'bug' in iOS11 could well be on the Microsoft side; in fact given that it's not affecting all iOS devices this is a significant probability.

Also; "you can't fully turn off Bluetooth and Wi-Fi because they're needed for file and smart watch synchronization." just simply isn't true. The radios can be fully turned off by using Airplane mode, or by going into settings and turning them off there.

What pisses me off most about this is that in my view Apple fucked up. It's a damn stupid decision to not have the control center buttons turn the radios off fully - and by reporting this honestly, people might take it seriously and put pressure on Apple to fix it. But because journos are turning it into panicky FUD in a race for headlines ("RADIOS CAN'T EVER BE TURNED OFF OMG THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!") the issue is becoming clouded.

And once again. 'Cupertino idiot-tax corporation' is just fucking stupid and insulting - not to Apple, but to Apple customers. Like somebody calling El Reg a 'Brainless cretin-attracting News Outlet'.

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LDS
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"Micro-shaft NOT following the RFC's"

There's no RFC to follow. In mobile clients, you need to use the Exchange ActiveSync protocol to properly integrate with Exchange - MS sets the rules, and you have to follow.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Works fine here

Works fine for me. Office 365, been on every beta since 4. I have seen a couple emails not send, but they show in the outbox. Just quickly resend them and all is good.

BTW, people in the real world just use Slack these days or some other messenger program, email is dumb ;-P I'll get my coat

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Bronze badge

Re: Works fine here

Airplane mode was my first thought. If they broke Airplane mode then what about planes that insist on no WiFi? So that was mis-information. However "Cupertino idiot-tax" is about right. Apple's main market is people who find computers too complicated and want it made simple. For this you pay extra. When I have an idiot customer I encourage them to buy Apple. They ask if it's the best and I say no, it's not and it's overpriced for what it does but it's perfect for you because you stressed how ease of use was the most important thing.

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Re: Works fine here

"Apple's main market is people who find computers too complicated and want it made simple. For this you pay extra. When I have an idiot customer I encourage them to buy Apple. They ask if it's the best and I say no, it's not and it's overpriced for what it does but it's perfect for you because you stressed how ease of use was the most important thing."

So your view is that customers who say ease of use is the most important thing are idiots? You don't fucking deserve customers.

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This post has been deleted by its author

Re: Works fine here

"And once again. 'Cupertino idiot-tax corporation' is just fucking stupid and insulting - not to Apple, but to Apple customers. Like somebody calling El Reg a 'Brainless cretin-attracting News Outlet'."

If it weren't for the Silver Badge, I'd ask if you were new around here...

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FAIL

Re: Works fine here

'Brainless cretin-attracting News Outlet'

and yet here you are commenting!

and now I'm commenting on your comment... it's cretins all the way down....

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Re: Works fine here

Fractal Cretinisation - sounds like a candidate for an Ig Nobel :))

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Re: Works fine here

Ditto. This article might have given me pause had I read it before upgrading - but luckily I upgraded before reading it. Loving the iOS 11 goodness, and everything works well.

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Re: Works fine here

”If it weren't for the Silver Badge, I'd ask if you were new around here...”

No, not new :) just a little weary of the same old gags. Call this one a personal crusade if you will; I don’t like the carefully considered purchasing decisions I (and many others) make being called idiotic - as though we were just following the shiny. My company has saved over $100m in maintenance and support costs over the last five years since switching to Apple - 95% of our support is now self-service, and the device lifecycle is now 5 instead of 3 years. So people saying the purchasing price is an idiot tax can fuck right off back to Windowsville, because it saves us a fortune.

Fnarr harrumph victor meldrew damn kids grumble rant.

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(Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

Re: Works fine here

This article isn't written for people who have avoided the bug. It's written for people hit by the bug who want to know WTF is going on. And check the link - Apple admits there is a problem.

Also, ppl saying their gear works - are you using the Outlook app? That app is crippled: check out the reviews for it. The UI is mashed beyond repair. That's not a great UX for ppl.

There's no sensationalism going on here. iOS 11 doesn't fully work with Microsoft's software - Apple says as much. If it works for you, great. Judging by the stats on this article, millions disagree that all is ok.

C.

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Re: Works fine here

This article isn't written for people who have avoided the bug. It's written for people hit by the bug who want to know WTF is going on. And check the link - Apple admits there is a problem.

But not so helpful for people like me who are wondering whether to advise others to update or not.

Also, ppl saying their gear works - are you using the Outlook app? That app is crippled

That wasn't made clear in the article, which seemed to focus on server compatibility. And now I'm left wondering if the problem only occurs when using the Outlook app.

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Silver badge

Re: Works fine here

”Judging by the stats on this article, millions disagree that all is ok.”

Stats will say what you want them to say. In this case, I’m betting that all they will show is that a sensationalist headline draws in the punters. If you post an article with the headline “Mars Rover discovers Princess Diana naked in a crater” it will certainly get clicks - but the stats don’t validate the headline, and when people discover it was tosh they’ll be less inclined to come back next time.

This is how great websites die.

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Re: Works fine here

Fnarr? Are you channelling your inner Finbarr Saunders? I'm looking for the double entendre but you must have slipped it in while I wasn't looking.

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Re: Works fine here

"I have to wonder if the reason for fail is (another example of) Micro-shaft NOT following the RFC's..."

You'd have thought that some muppet in Apple might just have thought about testing iOS 11 properly... Nothing to do with Microsoft - it's apple's product and they're responsible for it.

Just another fanboy who will blame M$ even though it's Apple's fault. Sheesh

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Re: Works fine here

Weirdly, as I read your last paragraph just as my colleague read out a request from a user for Slack.

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Re: Works fine here

”I'm looking for the double entendre but you must have slipped it in while I wasn't looking.“

Well if I’d known you were looking for a double entendre I’d have given you one.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Apple's main market is people who find computers too complicated

"That is not only not right; it is not even wrong".

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Re: Works fine here

are you using the Outlook app? That app is crippled: check out the reviews for it. The UI is mashed beyond repair.

I looked and found:

iStore - rated 4.6 out of 5

http://thetechnologygeek.org/outlook-mail-app-review/ - positive review (mar 2017)

http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-releases-new-outlook-for-ios-and-android-redesigned-conversations-and-account-switcher/ - positive review (August 2017)

Also according to the MS KB article (https://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/containing/3296291 ):

"This issue occurs because the Mail app on iOS 11 is not compatible with Outlook.com, Office 365, or Exchange Server 2016 running on Windows Server 2016." and Not with the MS Outlook app communicating with MS mail services.

Whilst the Outlook app does have it's limitations, my (non-IT) partner and her (non-IT) colleagues seem to be able to use it without additional assistance.

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Re: Works fine here

@Lord Elpuss

I wish I could give you more than one update. Now, I appreciate that the El Reg exists to "bite the hand that feeds IT" but I do wish that that didn't mean sometimes turning off journalistic skills. Like actually telling the truth in the article, rather than racing for the bottom with clickbait.

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Re: Works fine here

Fractal Cretinisation - sounds like a candidate for an Ig Nobel

Or US Presidency..

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Re: Works fine here

It's written for people hit by the bug who want to know WTF is going on.

So, make it plain that is affects *some* people.

Otherwise it just makes you look a bit sad for ignoring reality in favour of clickbait.

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Re: Works fine here

You can also easily toggle WiFi and Bluetooth in the new Control Center by swiping up from the bottom, just like before: they're prominently displayed right next to the Airplane Mode icon there. Not sure where these guys get their facts.

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Re: Works fine here

The Outlook app on iOS is not crippled...I'm not even sure what that means. The reviews for it show it at 4.5 stars on both the App Store and PCMag, so not sure where else to look for scathing reviews. I'm an IT professional and I use it daily and it works great.

And this is from a long-time MS hater (still am to a large extent), but O365 and the Outlook app on iOS (and even Mac) are rock solid these days. I can't find much to hate there.

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Re: Works fine here

Looks like some people haven't considered the possibility of interactions between Apple's mail handling and various configuration settings (and/or anything else that writes anything anywhere in memory).

I've seen this sort of thing before with one flavour of iOS talking to vanilla SMTP/IMAP (no MS involved). In that case some people would find their blingphone randomly lost its mail settings and had to have them all entered again. Didn't affect everyone, just some. Never did figure out what was different for those with the problem (actually, I couldn't be arsed, I just sniggered after I got off the call

telling them what configuration values to enter).

Probably a random heisenbug somewhere. Or some configuration setting partially stomping on another configuration setting. Or something like that. It's software. If it's not done well then it exhibits behaviour as random and inexplicable as Donald Trump's tweets because something, somewhere, is doing the wrong thing to something else when it shouldn't.

These things happen. Older hands understand that "I'm not having a problem with X" does not mean that there isn't a problem with X that affects some people in some poorly-understood circumstances.

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Eek

I'm equally Confused

I've been using iOS 11 since the first public beta and all my outlook email from both my exchange and Office 365 accounts has worked without a problem

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Re: I'm equally Confused

outlook email from both my exchange and Office 365 accounts has worked without a problem

Ah - that's becuase you are in the Real WorldTM and not in the reality-distortion field of churnalism.

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Re: I'm equally Confused

Well, my work has said not to upgrade. We access the Outlook app on some company shell that takes over your mobile. It really only affects the US, though. The company policy is BYOD (or "fuck you, get your own phone or be fired"), so mostly it's the US people who have Apples. The rest of us have whatever was cheap and shiny at the time (some lowlife Android unlikely to work beyond the current operating system!).

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FAIL

Bastards?

Anti-competitive behaviour.

where's a regulator when you need one? Oh, they are too busy working on 10 year old issues.

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Re: Bastards?

Anti-competitive behaviour.

where's a regulator when you need one

Regulators would be applicable to open standards. Exchange is a proprietary standard, with published interfaces. If Microsoft makes changes on the fly, that's their prerogative (and their problem, when you consider interoperability). Might not be to everyone's liking, but that's what happens when de facto monopolies develop.

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Anonymous Coward

I upgraded yesterday and works fine with my home and work Exchange server

I upgraded yesterday and works fine with my home and work Exchange server.

Then again not using Exchange 2016 personally and neither does work.Must be certain instance cases.

There is always issues with the x.0 version of the new iOS, i'm sure lots of bugs will be fixed in the x.1 release (there are a few). As Apple quickly pushes out updates to supported devices, everyone will get the fix.

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Well the Outlook app is a decent enough sticking plaster

But may not work if you have something like Airwatch mandated*.

* Which apparently forces me to use the Samsung email client, on the corporate phone.

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Re: Well the Outlook app is a decent enough sticking plaster

"...* Which apparently forces me to use the Samsung email client, on the corporate phone..."

To he honest I much prefer the Samsung email client over that god awful third party abomination of Outlook that MS apparently bought in.

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Thumb Down

Re: Well the Outlook app is a decent enough sticking plaster

Ugh, AirWatch, what a pile of pooh...

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Not universal problem

The problem isn't universal. It's more a iOS11/Server 2016 interropability issue. Clearly Microsoft's servers aren't all on the latest version of Windows Server.

support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4043473/you-can-t-send-or-reply-from-outlook-com-office-365-or-exchange-2016-i

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Re: Not universal problem

support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4043473/you-can-t-send-or-reply-from-outlook-com-office-365-or-exchange-2016-i

Reminds me of the EHLO farce that Exchange 5.5 did - replied with the list of facilities that Exchange supposedly supported in E5.5 - including pipelining. Which it didn't actually support.

Which is why all the emails from our SMTP hub to the (newly aquired) office in Austria were failing. Our Solaris boxes were assuming that E5.5 did pipelining (after all, it said so!) and using it to send the emails.

Which E5.5 proptly discarded.

It wouldn't suprise me if IIS on Server 2016 didn't do something non-standards compliant with HTTP/2 that broke things.

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Typical Reg snark

Some of us would consider Microsoft the idiot tax operation, just for corporate types. For what it's worth, the folks I work for are still on Exchange Server 2013, which offers (well, forces) an IMAP server as well as the odious Exchange tool-for-bothering-people-and-preventing-their-getting-serious-work-done (bingledy-beep, Insert Name Here). Most of us use the IMAP option, an it appears to work fine under iOS 11. Maybe it's a 2016-only issue?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Typical Reg snark

Microsoft's cloud Exchange has such a badly broken IMAP interface, our mail people disabled it to reduce support calls.

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Works here

Probably something a bit more isolated, how about dialing down the sensationalist headline a tad?

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Re: Works here

You're new here, aren't you?

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